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johnyq's 1-T tren log

Dragon13 said:
All that said, I will admit I didn't remember accuratey johnyq's stated goals. I was thinking straight recomp; an 8lb gain plus a significant loss in fat, yeah, maybe that is a bit optimistic.
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Absolutely it was optimistic, that's what makes it a goal :D

My strength numbers were no different either :lol:
 
johnyq said:
I post my diet so everything is in the open, and any feedback on any aspect of my diet or training I definitely appreciate, and won't turn away without some consideration. The support on AM is great :)
Props to you my friend!

My immediate responses:

1. 200g is really my minimum target (at least 40g a meal). I believe with many of my meals being a decent amount of animal protein, I am getting closer to 300g. This doesn't mean I can't bump it up more, just clarifying.
closer to 300g is good

2. Each meal is mixed with fat and fiber, slowing the digestion of the protein. I'm not really sold on the idea that I would need to eat more often with this in mind, but when its possible I'll keep my meals 2 hours apart ( = 6-7 meals a day, from 5-6)
Depends on your goals and how your body responds. Eveyone works a lil diff

3. I planned to reassess my diet approach come 2-3 weeks into the run anyways :)

4. precision nutrition has a few approaches. I am obviously not doing the 'bulking' approach (which adds in a lot of carbs). Any failure on my part should not reflect on PN, as this is simply my best take on how to apply to my situation.
Well carbs and bulikng is something guys cab debate forever. Rugger blew up on a log of Tren and Mdrol, and he ate a low carb diet on it. He was up 34lbs in 6 weeks, no joke. But his protein, fats, and calories were spot on, plus he must be a gentic freak, lol

5. You are right, my snack time of nuts should be complete full meals. I will work on this, and package some chicken, etc, to add to the list. However, the cottage cheese was just something to throw down before going to sleep, it wasn't really meal time.
Click to expand...
Cool, my point was lots of guys don't eat the 6 spaced and balanced meals, they count a snack as a meal.
 
Dragon13 said:
DLM, I am not trying to discredit you at all, and you are free to speak your mind. Don't know where I said otherwise. I don't really have time right now to type out a long detailed response, but these quotes are the gist of my main contention with your post: "it's a general rule that you need to take in at least 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight to grow muscle". Oh really? 2) "If the carbs are low the protein has to be high". Indeed? Let me offer this up for discussion:

Am I not right that if the carbs are low the protein will be converted into energy? Glucoiciuos (sp)?? If the carbs are low and the protein low, then after the protein is converted to energy, not a lot of protein is left over for.. "replacement of old cells, building muscles, organs, blood, nails, hair, skin, and tissues. Protein also takes part in hormone, antibodies, and enzyme formation."........ thus I say if the carbs are low the protein must be high, if you want to grow muscle.

Is protein intake the key dietary factor for muscle growth, or is it total caloric intake? Think macronutrient preference here. Also, what about the role of nutrient timing? When will protein intake be maximized where we want it to be - to build muscle? I will expound on these at another time.
Protein is KEY, and if you get enuff your calories are gonna be getting a good start. Protein has 4 calories per gram. So if a 200lb man eats 300g of protein he takes in 1200 calories right there. That's 60% of the calories listed in the Dr's funky diet you listed below. Add in carbs and fats and the calories will be over the Dr's 2000K.
Your not stupid, and neither and am I. We both now everything has to work hand in hand. If your gonna try to grow muscle you have to at the least have your protein, fats, and total calorie intake dialed in. Carbs can be low, there is no such thing as a essentinal carb. But there are essentinal amino's and fats, and you have to have them to grow muscle at a fast rate, along with a good calorie intake. Again Rugger showed how it's done on his Tren- Mdrol log for a low carb bulk. Now I will saw you can bulk even faster if you include more carbs, but the trade off can be water retention for a bloated look, and increased fat gain over the low carb bulk.

Secondly, Dr. Berardi is one of the preeminent nutritionists maybe in the world, and a bodybuilder; do you really think he would design a nutrition program with too little protein? As an example, Berardi's "Get Shredded Diet" suggests a caloric intake of around 2000 kcal for a 200-lb trainee, with 30-35% coming from protein. Using the higher figure, that's 700 kcals, or 175 grams. Gasp! Less than a g/lb of BW! And this is on a highly kcal-restricted, would-be-catabolic type diet.
This is sorta gonna mix apples and oranges... Well I'm 37 and guys have been doing comp BBing long before I came around and the good Dr. for that matter. You tell a competive BB that you want him to cut for a comp with under 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight and he will laugh at you, you know how catabolic that would be for a cut? Tell a guy who's been in the gym and put on 30 pounds of LBM over a few years you want him to cut on a 2000K and 1g of protein pr lb. and he will become catabolic.
Now if your a fat ass and you want to follow the Dr's diet to get shredded, you will. Many of the low carb, low calorie diets don't tell the secret truth that your slowing your metabolism down, about starving yourself, and becoming catabolic. You can get shredded on a Keto diet and not be catabolic.

As for balanced meals and insulin spikes - cottage cheese and nuts won't spike insulin!
You didn't get my point. You want a steady insulin level, and balanced meals give you that. A little snack isn't gonna spike your insulin level back to where it would be with a balanced meal plan. Spiking you insulin is a good thing pre and post workout, but that spike should be above the steady state insuilin level the balanced and evenly timed meals give you thru the day.

All that said, I will admit I didn't remember accuratey johnyq's stated goals. I was thinking straight recomp; an 8lb gain plus a significant loss in fat, yeah, maybe that is a bit optimistic. I do 100% believe in a caloric surplus to put on muscle (not so much a matter of belief as a matter of fact); I don't see how I now have a different point of view?
My perception was you were telling me I didn't have a clue and jonhyq was gonna be able to grow the 8lbs of LBM on the 1.02g of protein. Maybe we had a mis-understanding...
Finally, as for being pro recomp-type diet: I put in an application on the PP 1-T Tren Sponsored log thread that details my feelings on recomping fairly well. Read that, I don't have time to retype it now. Suffice to say someone using Tren may be one of the only times I would agree recomping can be done effectively (and that is still only an educated guess).
I don't need to read it. I think your not stupid and I think we share alot of common thought on diet. Somewhere the wires got crossed and I felt discredited by something that made no sense to me. I think we now see we agree the a bulk has to have protein, fats, and calories spot on. Carbs are open to debate on how guys want to use them.
-Dragon

PS - I disagreed civilly with GMG on that other thread, and he then launched an attack on me. He was the instigator there, not I.
Click to expand...

Regards,
DLM
edited bcuz I can get spacey
 
DLM5 said:
Am I not right that if the carbs are low the protein will be converted into energy?
Click to expand...

Maybe; you are forgetting about the other macronutrient.

Glucoiciuos (sp)?? If the carbs are low and the protein low, then after the protein is converted to energy, not a lot of protein is left over for.. "replacement of old cells, building muscles, organs, blood, nails, hair, skin, and tissues. Protein also takes part in hormone, antibodies, and enzyme formation."........ thus I say if the carbs are low the protein must be high, if you want to grow muscle.
Click to expand...

The word you're looking for is gluconeogenesis, and I agree, it is a very bad thing for bodybuilders. But again, you are completely ignoring the 3rd macro.

Protein is KEY, and if you get enuff your calories are gonna be getting a good start. Protein has 4 calories per gram. So if a 200lb man eats 300g of protein he takes in 1200 calories right there. That's 60% of the calories listed in the Dr's funky diet you listed below. Add in carbs and fats and the calories will be over the Dr's 2000K.
Click to expand...

Food for thought (no pun intended): in a restricted or semi-restricted kcal diet, is very high protein intake a good thing? Your body will use what you feed it. If you feed it tons of protein, it will get used to burning protein, i.e. gluconeogenesis. So connect the dots here. If your body is A) fed tons of protein; B) becomes conditioned to burning said protein; and C) is in a caloric deficit at least some of the time (and possibly even at maintenance) - what do you think you are risking? Catabolism, the very thing you are saying high protein intake is supposed to avoid.

There is not a single calorie-restricted, low-carb, CKD, etc, type diet for bodybuilders (that I am aware of) that espouses a low-carb, low-fat, high protein approach, for the very reason I stated above. More info: Preferentially, the body burns protein last. So if given the choice between using carbs, fats, or aminos to fuel everyday metabolic demand, protein is last on the list. So, if we meet the metabolic demand of the body with 1 or a combination of the other 2 macros, what can be done with the protein intake? The majority of it can be used for what we want it to be used for - tissue repair, i.e. building muscle!

Taking it a step further with a simplified example (and this is what I alluded to earlier): Let's say maintenance is 3000 kcals, and trainee X, a 225-lb bodybuilder, wants to bulk. He sets his daily caloric goal at 4000 kcals. Now, let's say he ingests somewhere around 3000 kcals in fats and carbs, leaving roughly 1000 kcals to come from protein. This is 250g, or 1.11 g/lb. Is trainee X going to grow on this diet? Yes!!

Another example: Trainee X cuts his caloric intake to 2800 kcals, but 100% of it now comes from protein. He is eating 700 g of protein a day, or 3.11 g/lb. Is he going to grow? No!!

My point: protein intake is not the key dietary factor for muscle growth, as long as intake is reasonable (not too low). The key is total caloric intake.

Your not stupid, and neither and am I. We both now everything has to work hand in hand. If your gonna try to grow muscle you have to at the least have your protein, fats, and total calorie intake dialed in. Carbs can be low, there is no such thing as a essentinal carb. But there are essentinal amino's and fats, and you have to have them to grow muscle at a fast rate, along with a good calorie intake. Again Rugger showed how it's done on his Tren- Mdrol log for a low carb bulk. Now I will saw you can bulk even faster if you include more carbs, but the trade off can be water retention for a bloated look, and increased fat gain over the low carb bulk.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with this, it just sounds contradictory to what you said above?

This is sorta gonna mix apples and oranges... Well I'm 37 and guys have been doing comp BBing long before I came around and the good Dr. for that matter. You tell a competive BB that you want him to cut for a comp with under 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight and he will laugh at you, you know how catabolic that would be for a cut? Tell a guy who's been in the gym and put on 30 pounds of LBM over a few years you want him to cut on a 2000K and 1g of protein pr lb. and he will become catabolic.
Now if your a fat ass and you want to follow the Dr's diet to get shredded, you will. Many of the low carb, low calorie diets don't tell the secret truth that your slowing your metabolism down, about starving yourself, and becoming catabolic. You can get shredded on a Keto diet and not be catabolic.
Click to expand...

It is true that protein intake should be higher when cutting, but it still should not be the dominant macro. I also think nutrient timing becomes MUCH more important in a cut.


You didn't get my point. You want a steady insulin level, and balanced meals give you that. A little snack isn't gonna spike your insulin level back to where it would be with a balanced meal plan. Spiking you insulin is a good thing pre and post workout, but that spike should be above the steady state insuilin level the balanced and evenly timed meals give you thru the day.
Click to expand...

OK

My perception was you were telling me I didn't have a clue and jonhyq was gonna be able to grow the 8lbs of LBM on the 1.02g of protein. Maybe we had a mis-understanding...
Click to expand...

Well, he very well may, if caloric intake is high enough. But he's trying to recomp, so kcals may be low at certain points, and in a recomp, I believe the timing is tricky and a lot depends on the product being used here. But short answer, yeah, one can grow on 1.02 g/lb! See my above example.

I don't need to read it. I think your not stupid and I think we share alot of common thought on diet. Somewhere the wires got crossed and I felt discredited by something that made no sense to me. I think we now see we agree the a bulk has to have protein, fats, and calories spot on. Carbs are open to debate on how guys want to use them.
Click to expand...

Again I agree, but again, seems to contradict the above?

-Dragon
 
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dragon you can try to twist this how you want.. if that's what gets you off..

Your twisting my words outta shape though..
My whole point to johnyq was.. that if he was eating low carbs he should be eating high protein.. I've touched on the protein, fats and calories working hand in hand..
My advice was based on growing some fast muscle mass.. It's sorta a s!ht or get off the pot deal.. protein is key to me, I want a sh!t load of it, amino's are the building blocks..
if you want to preach growing muscle on a high fat and high carb diet with 1.11g of protein per lb, then go right ahead but your not gonna grow muscle as fast and with more fat.. :donut:
:donut:
:donut:
 
johnyq said:
Absolutely it was optimistic, that's what makes it a goal :D

My strength numbers were no different either :lol:
Click to expand...

I didn't follow your 1T log...
I'm hoping I can ask you when you felt the strength gains kick in on the 1T, without going and searching your old log. How much weight did you hold outta that cycle after PCT?
Thanks!
 
johnyq said:
I post my diet so everything is in the open, and any feedback on any aspect of my diet or training I definitely appreciate, and won't turn away without some consideration. The support on AM is great :)

My immediate responses:
1. 200g is really my minimum target (at least 40g a meal). I believe with many of my meals being a decent amount of animal protein, I am getting closer to 300g. This doesn't mean I can't bump it up more, just clarifying.

2. Each meal is mixed with fat and fiber, slowing the digestion of the protein. I'm not really sold on the idea that I would need to eat more often with this in mind, but when its possible I'll keep my meals 2 hours apart ( = 6-7 meals a day, from 5-6)

3. I planned to reassess my diet approach come 2-3 weeks into the run anyways :)

4. precision nutrition has a few approaches. I am obviously not doing the 'bulking' approach (which adds in a lot of carbs). Any failure on my part should not reflect on PN, as this is simply my best take on how to apply to my situation.

5. You are right, my snack time of nuts should be complete full meals. I will work on this, and package some chicken, etc, to add to the list. However, the cottage cheese was just something to throw down before going to sleep, it wasn't really meal time.
Click to expand...

I think you know what you're doing here! Its obvious you've done more than a little research. Keep going and make adjustments as you have in the past, learning your way is part of the fun. JMO
 
Thanks knowbull!

DLM5 said:
I didn't follow your 1T log...
I'm hoping I can ask you when you felt the strength gains kick in on the 1T, without going and searching your old log. How much weight did you hold outta that cycle after PCT?
Thanks!
Click to expand...

I held most of my weight through pct. I think I topped out at 204 if I remember correctly (+18 pounds). I dropped to about 199-200 through PCT. Post PCT I started cutting back more and dropped to my current weight of 196. The strange thing is I put on a large amount of weight really early. I also did not worry much about keeping my diet clean. This is a really different run altogether.

As far as strength, I don't recall any specific moment where I realized I was a lot stronger, but by the time PCT was over I had added some significant numbers to my powerlifting total.
 
Day 9 April 7



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, after morning shower
1scoop toco 8
6 pumps sustain alpha, after night shower

Workout: OFF day
------------------------------------------------------------------------

cardio
20 Minutes of jogging

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like I really stepped up the diet. Adding times so you can see that snacks are actually in between 2-3h meals.

8:45am eggs/egg whites/veggies
9:30am 1 serving of Invalid Link Removed
11:45am broccoli and ox tail stew and a little chicken
12:45 Invalid Link Removed (170kcals) *
2:00 chicken n broccoli
2:30 2oz cheese
4:30 Shake: 2whey, PB, GSE, raw milk
7:00-9:00 Sashimi and 2-3 pieces of sushi, long dinner (small amount of rice)


Feedback
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ran today, I think about a mile and a half. Considering I haven't been running any, it went really well.
 
DLM5 said:
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dragon you can try to twist this how you want.. if that's what gets you off..

Your twisting my words outta shape though..
My whole point to johnyq was.. that if he was eating low carbs he should be eating high protein.. I've touched on the protein, fats and calories working hand in hand..
My advice was based on growing some fast muscle mass.. It's sorta a s!ht or get off the pot deal.. protein is key to me, I want a sh!t load of it, amino's are the building blocks..
if you want to preach growing muscle on a high fat and high carb diet with 1.11g of protein per lb, then go right ahead but your not gonna grow muscle as fast and with more fat.. :donut:
:donut:
:donut:
Click to expand...

1 - And if that is your whole point, then you still don't get it. Maybe it'll help if you define "high protein". If you define high protein as 1.75-2 g/lb or more, then my answer still stands: you don't necessarily need that high an intake to grow.

2 - Nobody said anything about high fat and high carb, talk about twisting words. But in many cases 1.11 g/lb will be enough to grow, depending on caloric intake. Maybe not optimally for some, everyone is different, but after a certain baseline of protein intake is met, total caloric intake is the most important thing. And again, as you reminded me before, johnyq's run isn't about adding pure puscle mass. It's a recomp, remember?

But whatever. I don't want to keep this back-and-forth going in johny's log.

My whole point: Johnyq, if you're following PN, you will be fine with the diet as prescribed.

-Dragon
 
johnyq said:
Thanks knowbull!



I held most of my weight through pct. I think I topped out at 204 if I remember correctly (+18 pounds). I dropped to about 199-200 through PCT. Post PCT I started cutting back more and dropped to my current weight of 196. The strange thing is I put on a large amount of weight really early. I also did not worry much about keeping my diet clean. This is a really different run altogether.

As far as strength, I don't recall any specific moment where I realized I was a lot stronger, but by the time PCT was over I had added some significant numbers to my powerlifting total.
Click to expand...

So the 1T was good to you then, cool.
I just did a Tren cycle and my strength gains I noticed starting the second week. It was sorta a, "I think my strength is going up" deal that week. Third week I knew for sure, and the fourth week I was like, "this sh!t is awesome." Most of my weight gains came in by the end of the 3rd week, then slowed down. But strength gains just kept coming until the end.
It will be interesting to see how you do strength wise thru the end of your second week, I'm betting you will report progress.
 
Dragon13 said:
1 - And if that is your whole point, then you still don't get it. Maybe it'll help if you define "high protein". If you define high protein as 1.75-2 g/lb or more, then my answer still stands: you don't necessarily need that high an intake to grow. You do to grow as fast as you can, how many frickin serious BBers are trying to grow on 1.02g or 1.11g??
2 - Nobody said anything about high fat and high carb, talk about twisting words. But in many cases 1.11 g/lb will be enough to grow, depending on caloric intake. Maybe not optimally for some, everyone is different, but after a certain baseline of protein intake is met, total caloric intake is the most important thing. And again, as you reminded me before, johnyq's run isn't about adding pure puscle mass. It's a recomp, remember? Wrong, I said it's gonna be a recomp on 1.02grams of protein.

But whatever. I don't want to keep this back-and-forth going in johny's log.

My whole point: Johnyq, if you're following PN, you will be fine with the diet as prescribed.

-Dragon
Click to expand...

Jummpin Fricking Christ Bro.......Your like talking to a freakin woman!!
You hear sh!t the way you want to hear it, not how it's spoke.

The OP stated he wanted to lean out and gain 8lbs of LBM, that's not a recomp in my book. That's hard to do on 1.02g of protein is my contention in a 6 week cycle. I felt his goals and diet were in conflict, but he's free to roll how he wants to roll. He also said he might re-adjust mid cycle.
I don't need to define anything, it's all there to read. From the first post on the subject.
I'd be willing to wager you that, he isn't gonna gain enuff muscle mass to hold 8lbs of LBM thru the end of PCT on 1.02g, or your little trip on 1.11g of protein. It aint gonna fcukin happen in a 6 week cycle. If it does then I'll take my sorry a$$ off this board for a 3 months!
So unless you want to bet, let it go.....................................................
 
Dragon13 said:
1 - And if that is your whole point, then you still don't get it. Maybe it'll help if you define "high protein". If you define high protein as 1.75-2 g/lb or more, then my answer still stands: you don't necessarily need that high an intake to grow.

2 - Nobody said anything about high fat and high carb, talk about twisting words. But in many cases 1.11 g/lb will be enough to grow, depending on caloric intake. Maybe not optimally for some, everyone is different, but after a certain baseline of protein intake is met, total caloric intake is the most important thing. And again, as you reminded me before, johnyq's run isn't about adding pure puscle mass. It's a recomp, remember?

But whatever. I don't want to keep this back-and-forth going in johny's log.

My whole point: Johnyq, if you're following PN, you will be fine with the diet as prescribed.

-Dragon
Click to expand...


If recomp is the desired thing. Protein should be high. 2g/lb. imo Just thouhgt i would chime in on this.:laugh:
 
DLM5 said:
Jummpin Fricking Christ Bro.......Your like talking to a freakin woman!!
You hear sh!t the way you want to hear it, not how it's spoke.

The OP stated he wanted to lean out and gain 8lbs of LBM, that's not a recomp in my book. That's hard to do on 1.02g of protein is my contention in a 6 week cycle. I felt his goals and diet were in conflict, but he's free to roll how he wants to roll. He also said he might re-adjust mid cycle.
I don't need to define anything, it's all there to read. From the first post on the subject.
I'd be willing to wager you that, he isn't gonna gain enuff muscle mass to hold 8lbs of LBM thru the end of PCT on 1.02g, or your little trip on 1.11g of protein. It aint gonna fcukin happen in a 6 week cycle. If it does then I'll take my sorry a$$ off this board for a 3 months!
So unless you want to bet, let it go.....................................................
Click to expand...

:laugh:
 
johnyq said:
Day 9 April 7



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, after morning shower
1scoop toco 8
6 pumps sustain alpha, after night shower

Workout: OFF day
------------------------------------------------------------------------

cardio
20 Minutes of jogging

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like I really stepped up the diet. Adding times so you can see that snacks are actually in between 2-3h meals.

8:45am eggs/egg whites/veggies
9:30am 1 serving of Invalid Link Removed
11:45am broccoli and ox tail stew and a little chicken
12:45 Invalid Link Removed (170kcals) *
2:00 chicken n broccoli
2:30 2oz cheese
4:30 Shake: 2whey, PB, GSE, raw milk
7:00-9:00 Sashimi and 2-3 pieces of sushi, long dinner (small amount of rice)


Feedback
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ran today, I think about a mile and a half. Considering I haven't been running any, it went really well.
Click to expand...

Looking and sounding great here! Im wondering how you will be feeling in another 3 or 4 more days. Are you feeling any flushing or hot ears?
 
I have had a small amount of flush feeling, nothing like my run with 1-T. I may be getting some lethargy though. Good news on the weight today...


Day 10 April 8



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, after morning shower
1 scoop toco-8 at lunch
sustain alpha post night shower

Workout: ME lower body
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPP
good mornings with stretch bands
some push ups

Parallel box squats
Work up to 1RM
blah, blah
305x3
325x1
345x1
365xfail...Ahhhhh. I hit mid lift and was stuck. Spotter touched me very lightly and it got me through it. Even with the failure, its a sure sign of an increase, as 365 is more than my free squat 1RM :)

heavy sled pulls
330 + sled 80yards x 3

glute ham raises
12r
10r
8r


hyper extensions (with rollers)
20# x 10
30# x 10reps
30# x 8r

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
breakfast: eggs, vegetables, salmon, almonds
lunch: chicken and brocolli and some salmon
lunch2: chicken and broccoli
preworkout: shake: PB, 2xwhey, blueberries, raw milk
preworkout: 3 peices of sushi
postworkout: shake: PB, creatine, blueberries, strawberries, kale, 1xwhey, raw milk
dinner: chicken and stir fry veggies


Feedback/stats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
weight: 198 +2lbs


For the third day in a row I have been fairly tired. For the most part is is towards the end of the work day (right before working out), except for monday when it was all day. Today I took some RPM to try and combat it, but unfortunately it didn't kick in until I was mostly through the workout.


Some signs of decent strength gains today. I had a failed rep on box squat, but it was close and with a weight into new PR territory.
 
Recomp is the goal, but I know thats not easy. It is definitely not all out mass, I'm keeping my diet really clean this time.

stated goal was lean out while gaining 8 pounds and 105 pounds to my deadlift total.





Yesterday was a rest day. Snagged some pictures last night. Looking leaner IMO, but the shave helps.

Day 1
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Day 9
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(click for fullsize)
 
johnyq said:
Recomp is the goal, but I know thats not easy. It is definitely not all out mass, I'm keeping my diet really clean this time.

stated goal was lean out while gaining 8 pounds and 105 pounds to my deadlift total.





Yesterday was a rest day. Snagged some pictures last night. Looking leaner IMO, but the shave helps.

Day 1
Invalid Link Removed

Day 9
Invalid Link Removed

(click for fullsize)
Click to expand...


Johny, you are indeed lookin leaner already. Good work.
About your recomp. I still think it's hard to cut a good amount of BF and put on 8lbs of muscle in 6 weeks that you can retain. Remember your gonna have to put on more than 8lbs before you go into PCT. I do think you can do a recomp in 6 weeks and gain a bit. But more importantly you I think you can lose a good amount of BF in a short time ( 6 weeks) and for sure not lose muscle doing it. Your goals are hard to acomplish both IMO.
Now what I'm gonna say might not agree with some guys thinking..
I think your diet is pretty clean bro. Now that I've seen your pics... well I think if you think straight recomp you could lean out a ton on this cycle.
My take.. Do 30 minutes of hard fasted cardio at least 5 day a week for the rest of your cycle, that's still 4 plus weeks. Then I'd cut the cardio during PCT. Yes, guys will say it's catabolic, and it is some what. But it burns fat fast like nothing else, and the anabolic your on will help to counter burning off muscle on a fast cut. As soon as your done with the cardio, down a whey drink with 40 grams or so of protein, and some amino acids. Eat the clean diet your have been, try for that 300g of protein a day. Drive hard and heavy weight in the gym, and work the abs with weight.
I've done this myself, but not while on a anabolic. I've help freinds do it and watched them have great results. You will drop BF like you never have before. It's not something you want to do long term, cardio wise. Like I said some guys will disagree with me. Now if you want muscle on your frame like a truck, I'd never do this. But if you want to recomp for the summer and see some abs, and use the anabolic to keep from losing muscle and even put some on, nothing will lean you out faster.
You sure the hell won't put on 8 lbs of LBM doing this, but you will get the max BF loss you can. But you will be way more defined and vascular, and that's not a bad thing.
Keep busting ass, bro.
 
BTW~
Are you having any back pumps on the 1T-Tren. Are you keeping tabs on your BP during the cycle to sew how the Tren affects it?
Thanks..
 
I haven't had any back pump issues, and I haven't been tracking my BP, but haven't noticed any symptoms of increased BP.

I'll take your advice and start adding more cardio, and some HIITS. I don't think I'm going to do it fasted though. I have to go to charleston next week, so cardio and bodyweight workouts, is all I will have.....

I think you are right, this is going to be a major recomp I think. I'll keep updating the pictures as time goes on.

Knowbull said:
How are you feeling? How about muscle hardness and density, any increase yet?
Click to expand...

hmmm, nothing really noticeable.


sorry for the lack of updates. Just needed a break I guess. I'll put down my last two workouts tomorrow.
 
johnyq said:
I haven't had any back pump issues, and I haven't been tracking my BP, but haven't noticed any symptoms of increased BP.

I'll take your advice and start adding more cardio, and some HIITS. I don't think I'm going to do it fasted though. I have to go to charleston next week, so cardio and bodyweight workouts, is all I will have.....

I think you are right, this is going to be a major recomp I think. I'll keep updating the pictures as time goes on.



hmmm, nothing really noticeable.


sorry for the lack of updates. Just needed a break I guess. I'll put down my last two workouts tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Well, the fact that you're not feeling any rigor mortis is a good sign.
 
Sorry for the delay in updating. Been a little busy and lost internet at my house, but its back up.

Here is an update for the last 3 days.
Day 12-14 April 10-13



Workouts
------------------------------------------------------------------------
friday 4/10: DE upper body

bench press against black jump stretch band
95lbs
wide grip
2 x 3reps

med grip
3 x 3reps

close grip
3x 3reps

bench press work up to 3rm
worked up to 245 x 3


dumbbell flys
40lbs, 3 sets of 10

dips
10, 10, 10

chinups
12,10,8


scarecrows
10lbs x 10,10,10

saturday 4/11

box squats
200 pounds 10 sets x 2 reps

box squats
worked up to 305x1

Prowler push and tire flips

Atlus stone, 175 pounds

sunday 4/12


off day

fasted walk, about 30 minutes, in the morning.

run, about 1.5miles. Fairly quick pace, felt great.


Diet and dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Same as before, lots of lean meats and veggies. Did not cheat any. I had two glasses of wine on saturday and sunday.


sustain is still 3 days on, 3 days off, so I applied it last night.


Feedback/stats
------------------------------------------------------------------------

weight 197 (+1)

left nipple is sensitive. Feels a like a bruise, and a rash from surfing. I think to play it safe, I will pick up some vitex today, although it does feel a little better this morning.


Sex drive has been low for about a week.


Strength seems to be climbing. Close grip bench at 245 for 3 reps, when my standard grip 1RM is 260.


No issues with severe pumps.


I'm very tired again today. I'm going to move around my allergy meds to see if that helps any.
 
Any feedback on the sides I'm experiencing, especially the sensitive nipple, would be greatly appreciated. I'm not completely sure how to proceed (wait it out longer, start vitex immediately, or just freak out, lol ).
 
The 19n is not a libido enhancer .I wouldnt start freakin about the nip. My left one was that way for a good while during my last 1T cycle, the res should help, try using the SA EOD at 4 pmps on arms only from wrist to shoulder with emphasis on the hairless interior or use 2 pmps daily throughout plus the Nitro dly, the NAC plus RLA should also help balance. Allergy meds suck, I would try to go without them, if possible. They could inhibit anabolism. Really, you should be kicking in by now. JMO
 
johnyq said:
Any feedback on the sides I'm experiencing, especially the sensitive nipple, would be greatly appreciated. I'm not completely sure how to proceed (wait it out longer, start vitex immediately, or just freak out, lol ).
Click to expand...

Yes, get on the Vitex for sure.

You could try supplementing with additional fiber intake too, to help leach the estrogens from the GI and help with clearance.

-Eric
 
thanks! I'll try to go without allergy meds, I can assure you its very miserable. I'll work on getting allergy shots lined up, so I can get off of them for good (in the mean time, I guess I'll suffer). What have you read about claritin that makes it so bad?

Didn't get the vitex today, but I will grab it this week for sure.


tomorrow I will sneak in a workout before I hop on a plane for a work trip. That means I can't workout wednesday - friday, but I plan to do bodyweight stuff and run, and then get right back in the gym on saturday. It also means food will be difficult this week, but I'll do my best.


Day 15 April 13



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, after morning shower
1 scoop toco-8 at lunch
6 pumps sustain alpha post night shower

Workout: ME upper body
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPP
none

floor press
Work up to 3RM
blah, blah
255x3
265x3
275x2

drop 20% and do 5reps
225x5

incline bench press, close grip
165 x 3 x 5reps

BB rows
155 x 10
165 x 8
165 x 8


rear delt raises
20# x 10
20# x 10reps

YTWLs x 12 [/b[

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
chicken, shakes, brocolli, beef, etc.


Feedback/stats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
weight: 197 +1lbs

very tired today (lethargy ?). Dropping allergy meds to see if it helps (as I said above)

Feeling more vascular, more veins showing for sure, although I have a slight tan from the weekend.


left nip feels better that it did, maybe the sustain helps. I don't have vitex yet, but plan to get it.
 
I think you may be using too much Sustain, particularly if you are using the Nitro 250, eod on both (alternateing the 2) and decreasing the pumps of Sustain on the days you use it, should help, too much Res. can kick gyno symptoms in. If your allergies give you a stuffy nose, sinus etc. try alternateing, sudafed (you have to sign for it) and the nasal spray afrin. Its your body and your cycle, dude, please do what you think is best for you and what is in your best interests. Eat some washed, Raw broccoli. Just my thoughts.
 
Day 16-18 April 14-16



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, after morning shower
1 scoop toco-8 at lunch
6 pumps sustain alpha post night shower

Workout 10/16: ME lower body
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPP
none

3RM deadlift standing on plates
I worked up to
225 x 3
235 x 2
255 x 1 (tried for another rep and couldn't get it)

supplemental work: good mornings, zercher squats (dont' have my notes)

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been on travel and my diet has been pretty damn bad! Its been great. I decided to not worry about it for 3 days, since I have been so clean for the last 3 weeks. I hope to see some great scale results when I get back home.




Feedback/stats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I missed a gym session this week, which sucks (not much I could do about it). I will do some cardio tomorrow hopefully, and bust my ass in the gym on saturday.


It has been a really stressful few days. Got in a pretty good car crash yesterday. Slammed from behind while stopped on a highway from traffic, and was catapulted into the car in front of me. Hit my head on the steering wheel, and knees on the dash, both of which are bruised. Nothing bad though, and the car that was ruined was a rental so thats good. It was on the "big bridge" in charleston for anyone familiar. Nice bridge!


Can't wait to get back home and hit the gym. I'll provide a new weight on saturday after my gym session.
 
johnyq said:
Day 16-18 April 14-16



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, after morning shower
1 scoop toco-8 at lunch
6 pumps sustain alpha post night shower

Workout 10/16: ME lower body
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPP
none

3RM deadlift standing on plates
I worked up to
225 x 3
235 x 2
255 x 1 (tried for another rep and couldn't get it)

supplemental work: good mornings, zercher squats (dont' have my notes)

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been on travel and my diet has been pretty damn bad! Its been great. I decided to not worry about it for 3 days, since I have been so clean for the last 3 weeks. I hope to see some great scale results when I get back home.




Feedback/stats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I missed a gym session this week, which sucks (not much I could do about it). I will do some cardio tomorrow hopefully, and bust my ass in the gym on saturday.


It has been a really stressful few days. Got in a pretty good car crash yesterday. Slammed from behind while stopped on a highway from traffic, and was catapulted into the car in front of me. Hit my head on the steering wheel, and knees on the dash, both of which are bruised. Nothing bad though, and the car that was ruined was a rental so thats good. It was on the "big bridge" in charleston for anyone familiar. Nice bridge!


Can't wait to get back home and hit the gym. I'll provide a new weight on saturday after my gym session.
Click to expand...

3 days of bad dieting may even benefit you (good shock to your 3 weeks of clean diet) Time to post your mid-cycle pic!
 
MF210 said:
Time to post your mid-cycle pic!
Click to expand...

Nevermind that comment....you're running a 6 wk., not a 4 wk. Pic progress is always appreciated though since that paints the true story.

Some people may only gain 5lbs in a log, but they may lose 5lbs. of bodyfat at the same time......BIG difference.
 
MF210 said:
I thought resveratrol blocks estrogen. Are you saying that too much creates an opposite effect?

Good log by the way Johnyq
Click to expand...

Its been my experience when on, that it can, lowering the dose of Res. ameliorates it. Off cycle it has never done it, IMO opinion anything over 500 mgs for a healthy person may be too much and that can vary when using androgens. There is always that individual variation, some people cant take Resveratrol at all.
 
Johnyq ,Sorry to hear about the accident. I agree about the routine and diet break, it may indeed be helpful. Im eager to hear how your stamina is, I know you were experiencing some lassitude. Is that still a problem?
 
Johnyq, good to hear the accident wasn't too bad. WTF is up with loggers and car accidents recently? Russian's friend, now johnyq... I'm starting to get nervous.
 
thanks for the support, definitely appreciate it. Injuries from the accident have been minor. A little bit of lower back pain, a little bit of neck stiffness. It didn't keep me out of the gym :)

Day 20 April 18



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, after morning shower
1 scoop toco-8 at lunch
6 pumps sustain alpha post night shower

Workout
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since I had a decent break and was feeling refreshed, I decided to do a mock powerlifting competition today. It is the first time I have ever tested each lift in one session. It was good experience.

(did it out of order, DL, bench, squat)

Deadlift: 400 pounds (PR by 25 pounds)
Bench: 300 pounds (PR by 35 pounds)
squat: 315 pounds (fell very flat, 50 pounds off of my PR, I think I was worn out from DL)

new PR totals = 1065pounds (+70 pounds)
total for that day = 1015 pounds
Invalid Link Removed

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Still not back to eating super clean, just trying to get a few pounds on first, and then I will cycle back to low carbs.




Feedback/stats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I couldn't be more excited about my lifts. Those are the best increases I have ever had, and I am now a lot closer to my goal of 1100 total than I expected to be for months. At this mid point mark, I have to say my strength is very noticably increased.


weight: 198 (+2)



sides:
I still experience a lot of extreme tiredness. I'm fairly certain now that it is a side effect of taking 1T tren and will probably be with me through the remainder of the cycle. Some days are better than others though. This tiredness has a compounding effect on my mood, which is fairly sour on some days.

Nipple sensitivity has been 100% fine. I only experienced it for about 2 days. I have to wonder if I didn't physically damage it while flipping a tire or something, and it had nothing to do with the 1T tren. Not sure, but as long as it doesn't come back I'm happy.
 
Thanks, good to hear about increases, bad to hear about fatigue. How is muscle tonus and vascularity, noticed any real change? Increased pump, density?
 
Sorry bro. Glad to hear you weren't hurt in the accident. I feel pretty inconsiderate for my last two "picture request" posts.

I was skimming your log and didn't notice the accident until now. Best of luck and my apologies.
 
Its no problem. I'll get updated pics, don't worry :)



Day 22 April 20



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, after morning shower
1 scoop toco-8 at lunch
6 pumps sustain alpha post night shower

Workout: ME upper body
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 board bench
work up to 1RM
blah
blah
275 x 1
295 x 1
305 fail

265 x 3


incline bench, close grip
185 x 3
185 x 3

I stopped at this point as my elbow was hurting bad....


Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
back to some clean eating

2 shakes
2 chicken breasts
brocolli
pork chop


Feedback/stats
------------------------------------------------------------------------

weight: 199 (+3)

I hurt my elbow last week, but have been keeping it feeling good with ice. Yesterday my dog jerked it on its leash, and it was killing me in the gym, so I had to shut down early.


weight is climbing.


A friend at they gym noted how I was looking a lot thicker. I've definitely filled out in the chest area a lot on this cycle.

As for pump, I've only noticed it a little bit. On the treadmill the other day, I had to stop early due to a pump in my shins.

vascularity is tough when you aren't that lean. I haven't noticed too much, although I feel like I have more veins in my forearms.
 
I'm actually pretty happy at this point, the strength gains were really good, and once I added in calories, I started putting on weight really fast (.5pound a day). My goals with 1T were different, so it is hard to compare fairly. Maybe I'm trying to do to many things at once, but it looks like I'm going to come pretty close to my very optimistic goals at the end of this cycle.


The lethargy is annoying, but that has been the only 1 downside so far.


I ordered 2 more bottles with the sale that is going on now, that should say something.


I'll try and get full measurements up tomorrow so we can see if I have actually grown.
 
I see that perhaps you may have had to many irons in the fire. I appreciate your objective appraisal, it was a mis-interpretation on my part. So it is living up to your expectations and preferable over the 1T?
 
johnyq said:
I'm actually pretty happy at this point, the strength gains were really good, and once I added in calories, I started putting on weight really fast (.5pound a day). My goals with 1T were different, so it is hard to compare fairly. Maybe I'm trying to do to many things at once, but it looks like I'm going to come pretty close to my very optimistic goals at the end of this cycle.


The lethargy is annoying, but that has been the only 1 downside so far.


I ordered 2 more bottles with the sale that is going on now, that should say something.


I'll try and get full measurements up tomorrow so we can see if I have actually grown.
Click to expand...


Glad to hear Johny... Thanks for the solid log.

-Eric
 
johnyq said:
I'm actually pretty happy at this point, the strength gains were really good, and once I added in calories, I started putting on weight really fast (.5pound a day). My goals with 1T were different, so it is hard to compare fairly. Maybe I'm trying to do to many things at once, but it looks like I'm going to come pretty close to my very optimistic goals at the end of this cycle.


The lethargy is annoying, but that has been the only 1 downside so far.


I ordered 2 more bottles with the sale that is going on now, that should say something.


I'll try and get full measurements up tomorrow so we can see if I have actually grown.
Click to expand...
Any back pumps ?
 
It is living up to my expectations.I think with those strength increases, I probably do prefer it over 1T, but I will continue to assess.

Josh said:
Are you leaning out any?
Click to expand...

yes, my waist is smaller, and I look a little leaner.



Day 23 April 21



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, after morning shower
1 scoop toco-8 at lunch


Workout: ME upper body
------------------------------------------------------------------------
box squat, safety bar, slightly above parallel, close stance
work up to 1RM
blah
blah
275 x 1
295 x 1
315 x 1


265 x 3

bulgarian split squats
95 x 2 x 10
135 x 5

Glute ham raises
10, 10, 8 , 8

hanging leg raises
12, 10, 10

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 shakes
brocolli
pork chop
tuna
sweet potato


Feedback/stats
------------------------------------------------------------------------

weight: 202 (+6) :eek:

wheels,
I got some back pump today, for the first time as far as I can recall. It didn't hamper the workout, just made me walk around funny after squats.
 
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