ULTIMA: The Hunt for a Stim-Free Pre-WO solution (Sponsored)
- Thread starter Steveoph
- Start date
purebred
Guest
well, you two can work out who gets/deserves what. the new avi gains the purebred stamp of approval.
...and just like that my headaches are gone.
...and just like that my headaches are gone.
Iron Lungz
Banned
The Trinitine bottles are slick as hell. Great stuff, indeed.
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
It looks like the problem is solved. Custom wins this avatar battle IMOcustom and dtrain are always confusing with their identical avatars. you two are killing me man! i know we're all one in the same way but my head hurts lol
21 gun salute for personalization!
I'm a fanatic for it; been eating it every morning for the past 5 years probably (except non-WO days. All the more motivation to hit the gym!)
I definitely like the professional look of their products. Makes it feel professional, without them having to say "Pharmaceutical Grade" or the like on the box.
If they look like the label I saw online, I'd definitely agree. Dark colours work well for labels IMO.
purebred
Guest
Amen. otherwise you get a glittery gay-pride effect like BSN :scared1:
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
Monday March 30th : Cardio & Chest/Upper Back
Cardio: 50 mins Elliptical
8:15-9:05. 1020 cals, down about ~30. Not as intense as usual; 3 days of low carbs definitely was the culprit.
Workout: Chest/Upper Back
1a) DB Incl: 75sx9,6,7,7 (Bumped it up this week, felt heavy but doable)
1b) Pullups/Lat Pulldown to Fail 4x
2a)DB Decl 60s 4x8 : Felt OK, 1st time since Jan 6th when I dropped it on my finger and crushed it; psychological thing doing this again
2b) BB Rows: 4x8
3a) BB Fly's 30x10,10 --> Machine 2x10 Switched to Machine b/c elbows feeling tight
3b) T-Bar Row: 4x8 Got some oldschool T-Bar row apparatus that I use to switch it up
Dosing: 0.5 ULTIMA 30 mins PreWO 0.25 ULTIMA upon reaching the gym
Comments:
Today was a very lethargic workout; there's no other way to describe it. I woke up pretty refreshed, good 9 hours of sleep but I did sleep all the way in to my alarm which is unusual. Cardio went so-so, but was pretty alert afterwards, had my porridge, everything is going well. Upon reaching the gym, I remember thinking to myself about how nice it would be to lie down in bed and just watch a movie... right as I have my music blasting and entering the weight room, weird I know. Anyways mind over matter, I have a good incl. DB bench, but I can't really get into it. The two main suspects for the lethargy are a) Too few carbs or b) The interview drained me mentally more than I realized and 3 days of rest weren't quite that relaxing. It was 2.5 hours long, but perhaps a bit of both.
Anyways in summary it wasn't the greatest gym day; I just really didn't feel like I wanted to be there. Also my left elbow wasn't feeling too good with the DB fly's. Anyways having a poor workout only strengthens my resolve to have a kick-arse workout tomorrow! Last week was ~10x10 of 155 ATG squats, which gave me DOMS for 5 days. Tomorrow I'll bump it up to 165, and do the same thing, and finish it off with Ham Curls/Quad extensions again. Hopefully I'll be staggering home again ! And I'll have an extra large breakfast, although I definitely had a large amount of carbs today PWO.
Cardio: 50 mins Elliptical
8:15-9:05. 1020 cals, down about ~30. Not as intense as usual; 3 days of low carbs definitely was the culprit.
Workout: Chest/Upper Back
1a) DB Incl: 75sx9,6,7,7 (Bumped it up this week, felt heavy but doable)
1b) Pullups/Lat Pulldown to Fail 4x
2a)DB Decl 60s 4x8 : Felt OK, 1st time since Jan 6th when I dropped it on my finger and crushed it; psychological thing doing this again
2b) BB Rows: 4x8
3a) BB Fly's 30x10,10 --> Machine 2x10 Switched to Machine b/c elbows feeling tight
3b) T-Bar Row: 4x8 Got some oldschool T-Bar row apparatus that I use to switch it up
Dosing: 0.5 ULTIMA 30 mins PreWO 0.25 ULTIMA upon reaching the gym
Comments:
Today was a very lethargic workout; there's no other way to describe it. I woke up pretty refreshed, good 9 hours of sleep but I did sleep all the way in to my alarm which is unusual. Cardio went so-so, but was pretty alert afterwards, had my porridge, everything is going well. Upon reaching the gym, I remember thinking to myself about how nice it would be to lie down in bed and just watch a movie... right as I have my music blasting and entering the weight room, weird I know. Anyways mind over matter, I have a good incl. DB bench, but I can't really get into it. The two main suspects for the lethargy are a) Too few carbs or b) The interview drained me mentally more than I realized and 3 days of rest weren't quite that relaxing. It was 2.5 hours long, but perhaps a bit of both.
Anyways in summary it wasn't the greatest gym day; I just really didn't feel like I wanted to be there. Also my left elbow wasn't feeling too good with the DB fly's. Anyways having a poor workout only strengthens my resolve to have a kick-arse workout tomorrow! Last week was ~10x10 of 155 ATG squats, which gave me DOMS for 5 days. Tomorrow I'll bump it up to 165, and do the same thing, and finish it off with Ham Curls/Quad extensions again. Hopefully I'll be staggering home again ! And I'll have an extra large breakfast, although I definitely had a large amount of carbs today PWO.
androgenic
New member
I got a horrific back spasm today and it cut my p90x short 15 days in...I hear ya.
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
Yea it's frustrating because 45 minutes before I was pumping myself up mentally. Anyways today will be different
Just had a masssive oats + berries + whey breakfast, probably 100g carbs. Was still feeling nippy so I had a banana. Going to pack a few yogurts just in case, and I've got my IntraAid which has 10g of carbs in it as well. Will be back in 3 hours Also when my ULTIMA dose is less than 2h after breakfast, I'm not taking my daily multi until after I workout, to remove any possible interaction between ULTIMA & other Vit / Minerals.
Random asides:
Fasting GLucose was 4.7, 90mins after lunch it was only 5.2 . I didn't have thaat many carbs though, but I'd love to do more testing lol.
Ran out of CLA on Friday; cut is still ongoing obviously
dtrain13
Well-known member
Back spasm's are FTL!
Resolve
The BPS Rep
Yea it's frustrating because 45 minutes before I was pumping myself up mentally. Anyways today will be different
Also when my ULTIMA dose is less than 2h after breakfast, I'm not taking my daily multi until after I workout, to remove any possible interaction between ULTIMA & other Vit / Minerals.
Random asides:
Fasting GLucose was 4.7, 90mins after lunch it was only 5.2 . I didn't have thaat many carbs though, but I'd love to do more testing lol.
Ran out of CLA on Friday; cut is still ongoing obviously
Ultima + Intra-Aid...mmmmmmm :food:
And you have a glucometer? Man, that is hardcore! Good for you. I'd actually rather give myself an injection than prick my finger with that lance.
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
I went home for the weekend, and my grandmother is a diabetic, so I got a new lance, and tested it out twice. Too bad I won't be home this summer, or I would be doing some serious testing of glucose disposal agents. Perhaps in the future
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
What initially got me interested in it was a post where someone mentioned people over on MD had been trying various GDAs and found that only a certain one or two (I think Chromium Picolinate, don't quote me) were effective for them. Perhaps I'll pick one up myself, who knows. Actually I won't know very much until May 15; if I do get into med school, I think I'll cut and run and vacation for 2 months or so, because starting late Aug it's 3 years of med school straight.
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
Thanks Simmons. In some of my previous logs I posted up random articles of interest, related to health/nutrition, but I can't decide if the added discussion helps or hinders the log. I was thinking about posting up some interesting B12 studies, like
Invalid Link Removed
There's also interesting ones on sleep, absorption in the gut, etc.
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
Great Success
Tuesday March 31st: Legs
Cardio: None
Workout:
1) ~ATG Squats 165x10,9,10,10,9,9,10,9,9,9 (Almost 10x10. From 5 onwards I racked it at 7, paused, pushed out 2 more)
2a) Leg Extensions 10,9,8,(12)+Hold - Dropped weight on last set to feel the burn
2b) Leg Curls 10,7,7,7 : The buuurn lol
Dosing: 0.6 ULTIMA ~25 mins beforehand, didn't take the last 0.25ish
Comments:
See post title for a summary, but it went well. The workout didn't fly by like last time when I was pushing myself effortlessly. I found the stim made time fly by, but I still managed without it just fine. No fatigue today, although my legs were a bit sore, from the cardio yesterday I guess. Moderate explosiveness, but not as strong as last week. Focus was about average I would say. But I still managed to make all 10 sets. I got in there and a girl was squatting 185 with good form, no 10x10, but it still tickled my ego and made me want to do 10x10 with that. Not this week, in 5 days I'll bump it up to 175, then after than 185. Didn't stagger back from the gym like last time, but I can definitely feel the soreness in my legs. Stretched a little this time as well.
From that massive breakfast I had, I was feeling kind of feel. Got slightly queasy mid-workout, and didn't want to add any liquids to my stomach so I didn't drink most of my IntraAid until PWO. I'm going to forego cardio tomorrow to let the legs recover, and will do shoulders/bi's/tris. Then Thursday will be Deads/Cleans if my legs have recovered enough. Friday will be a day off.
Tuesday March 31st: Legs
Cardio: None
Workout:
1) ~ATG Squats 165x10,9,10,10,9,9,10,9,9,9 (Almost 10x10. From 5 onwards I racked it at 7, paused, pushed out 2 more)
2a) Leg Extensions 10,9,8,(12)+Hold - Dropped weight on last set to feel the burn
2b) Leg Curls 10,7,7,7 : The buuurn lol
Dosing: 0.6 ULTIMA ~25 mins beforehand, didn't take the last 0.25ish
Comments:
See post title for a summary, but it went well. The workout didn't fly by like last time when I was pushing myself effortlessly. I found the stim made time fly by, but I still managed without it just fine. No fatigue today, although my legs were a bit sore, from the cardio yesterday I guess. Moderate explosiveness, but not as strong as last week. Focus was about average I would say. But I still managed to make all 10 sets. I got in there and a girl was squatting 185 with good form, no 10x10, but it still tickled my ego and made me want to do 10x10 with that. Not this week, in 5 days I'll bump it up to 175, then after than 185. Didn't stagger back from the gym like last time, but I can definitely feel the soreness in my legs. Stretched a little this time as well.
From that massive breakfast I had, I was feeling kind of feel. Got slightly queasy mid-workout, and didn't want to add any liquids to my stomach so I didn't drink most of my IntraAid until PWO. I'm going to forego cardio tomorrow to let the legs recover, and will do shoulders/bi's/tris. Then Thursday will be Deads/Cleans if my legs have recovered enough. Friday will be a day off.
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
dang. i didn't know you had diabetes. looks like you're doing good though, those numbers on squats for 10 sets can't be easy, and heavy leg training helps you minimize your insulin needs
No, my grandma has diabetes. I just have pretty bad genetics; my cousin had a stroke at 21, 2 uncles at 50. Cardiovascular disease and diabetes are rampant thoughout. My mission is to be the outlier , it's what motivates me to eat healthy. I remember when I got into the healthy-mindset after my grandfather passed away was 13, I ate a WW bagel for lunch every day for a year. Got sick of that, moved on to WW wraps. I better not get tired of beef stews, porridge, chilis and chicken caesars
simmons
Member
I think it's cool that you post them. It sheds light on things that many people (including myself) might not know about.
suncloud
Well-known member
No, my grandma has diabetes. I just have pretty bad genetics; my cousin had a stroke at 21, 2 uncles at 50. Cardiovascular disease and diabetes are rampant thoughout. My mission is to be the outlier , it's what motivates me to eat healthy. I remember when I got into the healthy-mindset after my grandfather passed away was 13, I ate a WW bagel for lunch every day for a year. Got sick of that, moved on to WW wraps. I better not get tired of beef stews, porridge, chilis and chicken caesars
aha. my old training partner has type 1. once we started doing heavy leg days, his insulin needs dropped by 40%. i mean, what a drastic decrease in insulin usage! till then, i never believed how important training your legs are. just stay healthy man, and keep training
anabolicRyan1
Active member
aha. my old training partner has type 1. once we started doing heavy leg days, his insulin needs dropped by 40%. i mean, what a drastic decrease in insulin usage! till then, i never believed how important training your legs are. just stay healthy man, and keep training
Incredible...
I'm embarrassed to say it... but up until 3 months ago I never trained my legs... At all.
I was always doing cardio which I felt was a good enough leg workout because I'd train hard. I was very very wrong and happy with my results now. ALTHOUGH BECAUSE I'M JUST STARTING I CAN ONLY SQUAT BABY WEIGHTS!!!!
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
Everybody starts somewhere; and I respect a guy who is doing light weight but squatting properly & deep vs. someone with 3 plates who does a little "knee bend".
I think most people have a body part they don't like to train; legs are kind of important though lol. I personally don't work my biceps and abs too often, although I'm working on reversing that. Just did shoulders , bi's/tri's & obliques today. I will probably start doing the 6-minute ab routine daily sometime soon as well.
dtrain13
Well-known member
One of the strongest guy's I've ever lifted with (besides myself
) and I happen to play softball with him hardly trained. He trained three times a week and did flat and incline bench, two tri movements (press downs and something else...) and two shoulder movements (military and something else..LOL) and I spotted the guy doing 550 for sets 8's a few times.
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
One of the strongest guy's I've ever lifted with (besides myself
Some people have the genes of champions. The rest of us struggle :dl:
dtrain13
Well-known member
The guy was an Italian freak no doubt. He wasn't that big in stature either. He could also run like the wind.
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
Wed April 1st: Shoulders/Bi's/Tri's
Cardio: None - Usually do it on Wednesday, but wanted to recover. Still couldn't sleep in past 7:30
Actually I did 8 HIIT sprints, forgot about that lol
Workout:
1a) BB Shoulder Press ; 115x7,6,6,4 - Hmmm felt heavy. Last time was 5,8,6,6 so similar
1b) DB Oblique 65 x15,14,12,10 - Upped the reps
2) BB Curls 3x8 - Did these while setting up for the tri-sets
3) DB Tri Set (Lat & Front Raises, Shoulder Press no pause) 3x9 - the curls gave my shoulders time to recover, DB press felt easy
4a) Incl. DB Curls 3x6
4b) Skullcrushers 3x9 Slow 3/1/3 tempo
5a) Incl. Crunches; 2x to failure
5b) Dips 2x10 (L Shoulder feeling stiff, but the dips felt effortless)
HIIT: 8 Sprints (Haven't done in ages)
Dosing: 0.9 scoop, 20mins preWO mostly, tad when I hit the gym.
Comments:
I definitely feel a difference between 0.5 and closer to 1 scoop. I find with a higher dose, the workout goes by quicker and I'm more focused. 0.5 just doesn't seem to cut it for me, unless I use a stim like I did with Slim Xtreme that once. As I mentioned in Iron Lungz' log, I noticed no increase in thermogenesis thus far. Sleep has been hit or miss, but I do think I've had some improvement. As I get closer to May 15 (when I find out if I got into med school this round), I'll start having sleep issues, but Ultima will be over with before then so no worries there.
ULTIMA is definitely a different experience that PreWO supps with caffeine. For those, it's easier to evaluate since you can feel the caffeine hit, you get energized/worked up, feel like you're moving in high gear, then crash/come back down a few hours later. On the other hand, Ultima doesn't get you wired up to the same degree, but then again there isn't a crash. I noticed this afternoon an increased sense of wellbeing, one might put it. It could be unrelated (I'm pretty happy anyways lol), but it was a rainy day and just remember being oddly happy. Not all day mind you, but just here and there.
Not really much else to comment on; if Omega is OK with it, I'd like to try my old JP8 on Saturday for a chest workout to give me a side-by-side comparison to make sure I haven't blown JP8 out of proportion from some inflated memories
Sidenote of personal pride: Invalid Link Removed finally rolled into NP! A thanks for Hank & Strag for editing the writeup. I tried to avoid the word porridge
Cardio: None - Usually do it on Wednesday, but wanted to recover. Still couldn't sleep in past 7:30
Actually I did 8 HIIT sprints, forgot about that lol
Workout:
1a) BB Shoulder Press ; 115x7,6,6,4 - Hmmm felt heavy. Last time was 5,8,6,6 so similar
1b) DB Oblique 65 x15,14,12,10 - Upped the reps
2) BB Curls 3x8 - Did these while setting up for the tri-sets
3) DB Tri Set (Lat & Front Raises, Shoulder Press no pause) 3x9 - the curls gave my shoulders time to recover, DB press felt easy
4a) Incl. DB Curls 3x6
4b) Skullcrushers 3x9 Slow 3/1/3 tempo
5a) Incl. Crunches; 2x to failure
5b) Dips 2x10 (L Shoulder feeling stiff, but the dips felt effortless)
HIIT: 8 Sprints (Haven't done in ages)
Dosing: 0.9 scoop, 20mins preWO mostly, tad when I hit the gym.
Comments:
I definitely feel a difference between 0.5 and closer to 1 scoop. I find with a higher dose, the workout goes by quicker and I'm more focused. 0.5 just doesn't seem to cut it for me, unless I use a stim like I did with Slim Xtreme that once. As I mentioned in Iron Lungz' log, I noticed no increase in thermogenesis thus far. Sleep has been hit or miss, but I do think I've had some improvement. As I get closer to May 15 (when I find out if I got into med school this round), I'll start having sleep issues, but Ultima will be over with before then so no worries there.
ULTIMA is definitely a different experience that PreWO supps with caffeine. For those, it's easier to evaluate since you can feel the caffeine hit, you get energized/worked up, feel like you're moving in high gear, then crash/come back down a few hours later. On the other hand, Ultima doesn't get you wired up to the same degree, but then again there isn't a crash. I noticed this afternoon an increased sense of wellbeing, one might put it. It could be unrelated (I'm pretty happy anyways lol), but it was a rainy day and just remember being oddly happy. Not all day mind you, but just here and there.
Not really much else to comment on; if Omega is OK with it, I'd like to try my old JP8 on Saturday for a chest workout to give me a side-by-side comparison to make sure I haven't blown JP8 out of proportion from some inflated memories
Sidenote of personal pride: Invalid Link Removed finally rolled into NP! A thanks for Hank & Strag for editing the writeup. I tried to avoid the word porridge
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
I love it, well... I love the results but it's hard as hell! I do the elliptical, I've worked up to 25s Sprint 35s Recovery. Whole session takes 10 minutes to do 10
I like the recomp effect; I've done a few PB + UP Choc scoops today though, which won't help lol. I have been doing morning fasted cardio, so I really cut back on the HIIT as the two tend to be too much. For the time it takes, the results are quite significant. I think a bit of both is probably the best approach though; so steady state maybe 1-2/week, and sprints 1-2/week as well.
suncloud
Well-known member
I love it, well... I love the results but it's hard as hell! I do the elliptical, I've worked up to 25s Sprint 35s Recovery. Whole session takes 10 minutes to do 10
I like the recomp effect; I've done a few PB + UP Choc scoops today though, which won't help lol. I have been doing morning fasted cardio, so I really cut back on the HIIT as the two tend to be too much. For the time it takes, the results are quite significant. I think a bit of both is probably the best approach though; so steady state maybe 1-2/week, and sprints 1-2/week as well.
i'll probably have to hit the elliptical or stationary bike myself - my knees don't like this thing which is called running. switching from an all out bulk to recomp is so hard. i remember eating everything in the house - even eating raw spaghetti before i hit the store. now its all about limiting carbs, and its so hard. 2 years of all out bulking didn't make it any easier
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
i'll probably have to hit the elliptical or stationary bike myself - my knees don't like this thing which is called running. switching from an all out bulk to recomp is so hard. i remember eating everything in the house - even eating raw spaghetti before i hit the store. now its all about limiting carbs, and its so hard. 2 years of all out bulking didn't make it any easier
I can imagine; I was eating pretty freeling in Jan & Feb, and the pounds found me. Running has this great feel to it when done outdoors, but it's hard to preserve your knees from that impact even with proper running form. I've seen alot of knee replacements in the hospital from when I volunteered on the physio rehab floor, and a lot of them used to be runners. Another perk to the elliptical is being able to read and workout, although this doesn't apply for HIIT. If you can read, you're not working hard enough
dtrain13
Well-known member
Wed April 1st: Shoulders/Bi's/Tri's
Cardio: None - Usually do it on Wednesday, but wanted to recover. Still couldn't sleep in past 7:30
Actually I did 8 HIIT sprints, forgot about that lol
Workout:
1a) BB Shoulder Press ; 115x7,6,6,4 - Hmmm felt heavy. Last time was 5,8,6,6 so similar
1b) DB Oblique 65 x15,14,12,10 - Upped the reps
2) BB Curls 3x8 - Did these while setting up for the tri-sets
3) DB Tri Set (Lat & Front Raises, Shoulder Press no pause) 3x9 - the curls gave my shoulders time to recover, DB press felt easy
4a) Incl. DB Curls 3x6
4b) Skullcrushers 3x9 Slow 3/1/3 tempo
5a) Incl. Crunches; 2x to failure
5b) Dips 2x10 (L Shoulder feeling stiff, but the dips felt effortless)
HIIT: 8 Sprints (Haven't done in ages)
Dosing: 0.9 scoop, 20mins preWO mostly, tad when I hit the gym.
Comments:
I definitely feel a difference between 0.5 and closer to 1 scoop. I find with a higher dose, the workout goes by quicker and I'm more focused. 0.5 just doesn't seem to cut it for me, unless I use a stim like I did with Slim Xtreme that once. As I mentioned in Iron Lungz' log, I noticed no increase in thermogenesis thus far. Sleep has been hit or miss, but I do think I've had some improvement. As I get closer to May 15 (when I find out if I got into med school this round), I'll start having sleep issues, but Ultima will be over with before then so no worries there.
ULTIMA is definitely a different experience that PreWO supps with caffeine. For those, it's easier to evaluate since you can feel the caffeine hit, you get energized/worked up, feel like you're moving in high gear, then crash/come back down a few hours later. On the other hand, Ultima doesn't get you wired up to the same degree, but then again there isn't a crash. I noticed this afternoon an increased sense of wellbeing, one might put it. It could be unrelated (I'm pretty happy anyways lol), but it was a rainy day and just remember being oddly happy. Not all day mind you, but just here and there.
Not really much else to comment on; if Omega is OK with it, I'd like to try my old JP8 on Saturday for a chest workout to give me a side-by-side comparison to make sure I haven't blown JP8 out of proportion from some inflated memories
Sidenote of personal pride: Invalid Link Removed finally rolled into NP! A thanks for Hank & Strag for editing the writeup. I tried to avoid the word porridge
No problem on the comparison. I'm rather a fan Get Diesel products (me and Chuck are from the same area...) and feel there underrated and would be interested in the comparison. I'm sure the two are pretty different in terms of what you feel. Thinking of ordering the Banaba but if one doesn't own a scale what would be and a good measuring device to get the 500mg?
strategicmove
Legend
....,,,,,,,,,
ULTIMA is definitely a different experience that PreWO supps with caffeine. For those, it's easier to evaluate since you can feel the caffeine hit, you get energized/worked up, feel like you're moving in high gear, then crash/come back down a few hours later. On the other hand, Ultima doesn't get you wired up to the same degree, but then again there isn't a crash. I noticed this afternoon an increased sense of wellbeing, one might put it. It could be unrelated (I'm pretty happy anyways lol), but it was a rainy day and just remember being oddly happy. Not all day mind you, but just here and there.
Not really much else to comment on; if Omega is OK with it, I'd like to try my old JP8 on Saturday for a chest workout to give me a side-by-side comparison to make sure I haven't blown JP8 out of proportion from some inflated memories
Sidenote of personal pride: Invalid Link Removed finally rolled into NP! A thanks for Hank & Strag for editing the writeup. I tried to avoid the word porridge
No problem regarding the Banaba write-up. :thumbsup:
I would appreciate some clarification, Steveoph, if you do not mind. My impression up to this point was that you were in search of a stim-free pre-workout solution. Futrthermore, I was (still am) under the impression that you have been satisfied with Ultima so far, suggesting you may have found your long sought-for solution.
If both impressions are correct, then I struggle to understand why a stim-based pre-workout solution, regardless which, should even be an option in your current log. Help me understand, if you may! Thanks! :thumbsup:
dtrain13
Well-known member
No problem regarding the Banaba write-up. :thumbsup:
I would appreciate some clarification, Steveoph, if you do not mind. My impression up to this point was that you were in search of a stim-free pre-workout solution. Futrthermore, I was (still am) under the impression that you have been satisfied with Ultima so far, suggesting you may have found your long sought-for solution.
LOL
strategicmove
Legend
dtrain13
Well-known member
Iron Lungz
Banned
No problem regarding the Banaba write-up. :thumbsup:
I would appreciate some clarification, Steveoph, if you do not mind. My impression up to this point was that you were in search of a stim-free pre-workout solution. Futrthermore, I was (still am) under the impression that you have been satisfied with Ultima so far, suggesting you may have found your long sought-for solution.
Good point, Ike. I know Steve is a big Get Diesel fan.
dtrain13
Well-known member
I'm cool with the comparison as I think it would interesting to see how ULTIMA stacks up with a product with some stims in it. Not to mention its his favorite (I think....) and that would say something if ULTIMA is on the level. I believe it to be and I actually like the nootropic feeling vs. the CNS stimulation feeling.
Iron Lungz
Banned
I enjoy every aspect thus far; however, I have yet to really feel a strong Nootropic punch. It may be the feeling of excitement that I feel after I take my dose... hmmm, perhaps so. I need to try and focus on what it is that I am feeling before my initial dose, then following my dose to note any changes in mood. Will do!
dtrain13
Well-known member
So you don't feel the "tunnel vision" or just completely zoned in almost to an anxious feeling like you need to be doing something??
strategicmove
Legend
Technically, I am not even sure how such a comparison might work without a wash-out period between the use of both products. Certain compounds in Ultima are such that their cellular concentrations or receptor sensitivity build up over time. In such a case, there is a carry-over effect from Ultima to the stim-based product, regardless which. Hence, some of the benefits triggered by Ultima may erroneously be attributed to the stim-based product. So, for a clean comparison, one would need to run one product first, take notes or keep a log. Go through a wash-out period afterwards, then start with the next product, and do the same exercises as with the first product, take notes, then compare. Otherwise, the results may not be legitimately attributable to any one of the two products, making any serious comparisons meaningless.
Anyway, it's your product log!
The initial motivation for my earlier comment was a completely different one, though!
Last edited:
Iron Lungz
Banned
See, I am like that anyways, so that's a hard question to answer.
dtrain13
Well-known member
Technically, I am not even sure how such a comparison might work without a wash-out period between the use of both products. Certain compounds in Ultima are such that their cellular concentrations or receptor sensitivity build up over time. In such a case, their is a carry-over effect from Ultima to the stim-based product, regardless which. In such a case, some of the benefits triggered by Ultima may erroneously be attributed to the stim-based product. So, for a clean comparison, one would need to run one product first, take notes or keep a log. Go through a wash-out period afterwards, then start with the next product, and do the same exercises as with the first product, take notes, then compare. Otherwise, the results may not be legitimately attributable to any one of the two products, making any serious comparisons meaningless.
Anyway, it's your product log!
True. Now that I think about it you are totally correct. Perhaps Steveoph you could hold off to the end of the log to compare the two?? Because he is absolutely correct in his assessment. Maybe Matt should hire him and boot my ass.
dtrain13
Well-known member
Well damn man, you're just an intense mofo.
,) I actually am like that most times myself.
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
Good question, as always. The thread title refers to the fact that I don't like to rely on stims too much; I stim free PreWO product, like ULTIMA, would allow me to workout without caffeine. However I do not plan to completely abandon caffeinated PreWO supplements, because I find them to be very effective; rather I would just like to reduce my usage of them. So ideally I might use a stim-free product 2x/week, and then a product with some caffeine for 2 other workouts. Caffeine isn't dangerous is reasonable doses, and I just like keeping it in moderation.No problem regarding the Banaba write-up. :thumbsup:
I would appreciate some clarification, Steveoph, if you do not mind. My impression up to this point was that you were in search of a stim-free pre-workout solution. Futrthermore, I was (still am) under the impression that you have been satisfied with Ultima so far, suggesting you may have found your long sought-for solution.
If ULTIMA does give me the same quality of workouts as JP8, and at a reasonable price, I may switch over completely but still too early to tell. Also understanding what other benefits ULTIMA possesses make it more than just a PreWO product, which I will take into consideration.
I suppose if I did have to pick a favourite stim PreWO, the current one is JP8, although White Flood and Jack3d are close contenders.
I found the nootropic effect is more noticeable closer to 1scoop. At 0.5 scoops, I found myself feeling and having pretty average workouts. I think I mentioned it in one of my first few workouts with Ultima, that I analyzed my mental state in the gym and felt pretty close to normal.
Hmm, I definitely don't feel anxious at all, perhaps the music is amping me up. I feel more determined, but I usually get myself "in the zone" when working out. I tell myself it's mind over matter, and can push myself pretty hard. I think ULTIMA might make me focus just a bit more. Once or twice, out of something like 10-12 workouts now, I found myself staring down the dumbbell, but not a consistent effect.
Technically, I am not even sure how such a comparison might work without a wash-out period between the use of both products. Certain compounds in Ultima are such that their cellular concentrations or receptor sensitivity build up over time. In such a case, their is a carry-over effect from Ultima to the stim-based product, regardless which. In such a case, some of the benefits triggered by Ultima may erroneously be attributed to the stim-based product. So, for a clean comparison, one would need to run one product first, take notes or keep a log. Go through a wash-out period afterwards, then start with the next product, and do the same exercises as with the first product, take notes, then compare. Otherwise, the results may not be legitimately attributable to any one of the two products, making any serious comparisons meaningless.
Anyway, it's your product log!
I thought about that; I realize the sleep effects mind carry over , and I was going to not dose ULTIMA on Friday during my off-day. I'll think this over a bit more on Friday when I have all that time on my off-day
(Although I'm contemplating HIIT sprints) Thanks for the well reasoned questions though, they help me as well!
dtrain13
Well-known member
I guess determined would be a better choice of words than anxious.Good question, as always. The thread title refers to the fact that I don't like to rely on stims too much; I stim free PreWO product, like ULTIMA, would allow me to workout without caffeine. However I do not plan to completely abandon caffeinated PreWO supplements, because I find them to be very effective; rather I would just like to reduce my usage of them. So ideally I might use a stim-free product 2x/week, and then a product with some caffeine for 2 other workouts. Caffeine isn't dangerous is reasonable doses, and I just like keeping it in moderation.
If ULTIMA does give me the same quality of workouts as JP8, and at a reasonable price, I may switch over completely but still too early to tell. Also understanding what other benefits ULTIMA possesses make it more than just a PreWO product, which I will take into consideration.
I suppose if I did have to pick a favourite stim PreWO, the current one is JP8, although White Flood and Jack3d are close contenders.
I found the nootropic effect is more noticeable closer to 1scoop. At 0.5 scoops, I found myself feeling and having pretty average workouts. I think I mentioned it in one of my first few workouts with Ultima, that I analyzed my mental state in the gym and felt pretty close to normal.
Hmm, I definitely don't feel anxious at all, perhaps the music is amping me up. I feel more determined, but I usually get myself "in the zone" when working out. I tell myself it's mind over matter, and can push myself pretty hard. I think ULTIMA might make me focus just a bit more. Once or twice, out of something like 10-12 workouts now, I found myself staring down the dumbbell, but not a consistent effect.
I thought about that; I realize the sleep effects mind carry over , and I was going to not dose ULTIMA on Friday during my off-day. I'll think this over a bit more on Friday when I have all that time on my off-day
Iron Lungz
Banned
Well damn man, you're just an intense mofo.
I didn't get where I'm at (or was at) in the Military by not being aggressive, both mentally and physically.
HooaH!
dtrain13
Well-known member
I didn't get where I'm at (or was at) in the Military by not being aggressive, both mentally and physically.
HooaH!
I know, brah!