NOT YOUR GRANDMA'S RECOMP...AX, iforce, Scivation, and Intermittent fasting

Ok guys,
Due to a couple of PMs I've received, I am going to say a couple of things regarding SX just to make sure I'm not misunderstood.

Slim Xtreme, especially when taken with Lean FX, seems to have the potential to favorably effect appetite, cortisol levels (I have no proof of that, but that's Lean's main intended purpose), fat metabolism, and possibly feeling of well being.

The latter part of that statement is something that I don't want to be misunderstood.

If you are relatively happy with life in general, and take SX for fat loss goals, you may experience a somewhat enhanced feeling of well being as a side effect. While it can be an exciting surprise to feel this boost as you go throughout your day, I would in no way imply that SX, or any other supplement, has ANY ability to solve problems like depression or act as an aid in getting through a difficult time in life. Some things in life are just difficult, and attempting to self medicate will most likely only make matters worse. I would never advocate seeking out a chemical solution to a living problem. If you feel the need to take something to alter your frame of mind, I suggest you at least seek out a health care professional's opinion before doing so.
 
Posting on yesterday...

Day 10

After my upper body workout being forced back two days due to cicumstances, I was fully rested and ready to hit the weights. I did a similar workout as the last, but mix up the reps/weights in an attempt to get a little more volume in. Hit a couple thirty reppers on chest/back which game me a nice pump:)

Superset
Mod. Dumbbell press- 25x20, 50x10, 75x10, 75x10, 75x10, 50x30
One arm DB row- 25x20, 40x10, 60x10, 60x10, 60x10, 40x30

Superset
Overhead static DB press- 25x10, 45x8, 45x8, 40x10
Dumbbell shrug- 35x10, 60x10, 60x10, 60x10

Superset
Alt. Dumbell curl- 15x10, 25x10, 35x10, drop set from 45-10, 20x21
French press- 10x10, 20x10, 30x10, drop set from 40-15, 20x15

Around the world- 15x12, 15x12

Rear delt raise- 15x10, 15x10

Total volume: 15,920

Thoughts/Notes:

SX+LFX+Rev. is still feeling good. I've had a very stressfull week this week, but when it came time to turn it on in the weight room, I was completely dialed in. I'm looking for signs of improvement in every workout, whether it be on the tape measure or just in the mirror. Today I noticed a little more vascularity than before. I'm far from a naturally vascular guy, but I'm starting to see viens that I haven't seen in a long time. They're faint, but they're there:laugh:
 
Took some body fat measurments with my fat track II calipers and came out with 13.5% (That was the higher meas. of the 3 times I tried). I know I can't be 13.5%. I might believe 15, but no way 13.5. I think stored fat in unmeasured places like the lovehandle area is throwing it off. However, I tried a number of calculators that use measurments of weight, waist, neck, stomach, ect. and came to the conclusion I'm at about 17%. (If I try to get the lowest measurments possible (sucking in my gut, ect.) I end up around 15%.)
17% sounds about right to me based on how I look, which would put me at a lbm of ~137lbs. (Wow that sounds lame, but that's what you get when your legs don't contribute much in the way of lbm!)
So...My current goal of 152lbs. would put me at about 10%, which I would be happy with. However, I'm starting to get to the point where losing 2+ lb/week may be a bit much, so hopefully I can put some more muscle on my legs and a little bit more up top in the next month.
 
Oh!...I almost forgot! I decided to start the day without SX today. I figured taking a day or two off every once in a while would be a good idea.
Here are my thoughts on how it went:


:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:


...That would be two thumbs down, sir.

I say this for a couple of reasons, one of which was the appetite I had. Not just a hungry feeling, but a craving for "junkier" foods that I haven't had since I started taking SX. I also had a headache in the morning, which doesn't surprise me too much. I stopped drinking coffee when I started this, and I think the daily use of SX has been enough to suppress the caffeine withdrawl symptoms I would normaly have had by now.
 
Steveoph said:
Judging by the timing, your noon reversitol will be empty stomach. You might want to move it to your 1st meal; it has ATD in it, and is better taken with fats.
Click to expand...

Is the consensus with a meal now, or empty stomach for resveratrol, not considering the atd factor like this case? I agree the atd absorption would fair better with a meal, not sure about the res though.
 
DR.D said:
Is the consensus with a meal now, or empty stomach for resveratrol, not considering the atd factor like this case? I agree the atd absorption would fair better with a meal, not sure about the res though.
Click to expand...

I was suggesting that for the ATD since I've seen several issues w/ GI discomfort when taken on an empty stomach + absorption. As for the resveratrol, I don't even focus on it in the Reversitol because even though there may be a moderate dose in there, oral bioavailability is so poor without some absorption enhancers that I don't see it having a significant effect. Micronized w/ a surfactant like PEG or Tween80, or alternatively buccal/sublingual/transdermal delivery are preferred routes of administration.
 
Ok, I've failed to log much of anything for a few days...
The last week has been probably the most stressful week of my life. I actually lost a bit MORE at the last weigh in than I wanted to. I missed an entire week's worth of workouts, and wasn't as diligent about my diet as I should have been. Weigh in day is now Thursdays instead of Tuesdays, and here are the results:

Previous weight- 165.3
Day 15 weight- 162.0
Net loss- 3.3 lbs.

Like I said, that kind of weight loss is a bit high at this stage, but I'm not too concerned. I'm moving forward and I've got somewhat of a grip on things now. My strength suffered the first workout after taking this time off, but by my second workout I was right back where I was. I wouldn't be surprised if I got up to a pound of that back just by eating solid and working out for a couple days. For this reason I'm not expecting a dramatic weight loss next week. Maybe a pound.
 
DR.D said:
Is the consensus with a meal now, or empty stomach for resveratrol, not considering the atd factor like this case? I agree the atd absorption would fair better with a meal, not sure about the res though.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I am dosing with my first meal of the day now. That was a concern I had with the first bottle of reversitol I ran, and I pitched it to their reps. I never really got any info from them either, so I just chalked it up as one of those products that no one really has a concrete answer regarding dosing for. The timing alone of dosing various AI's, not considering whether or not food is taken in, has been argued enough to make my head spin.
 
redemption79 said:
Yeah, I am dosing with my first meal of the day now. That was a concern I had with the first bottle of reversitol I ran, and I pitched it to their reps. I never really got any info from them either, so I just chalked it up as one of those products that no one really has a concrete answer regarding dosing for. The timing alone of dosing various AI's, not considering whether or not food is taken in, has been argued enough to make my head spin.
Click to expand...

Well if you take it with meals, and that was right, you score 100%. If you take it with meals, and that was wrong, you score 0%. So when in doubt or until you know better, you could cover both bases (meals and fasting) and get at least 50% out of it for sure! lol

Plus, some products have multiple components with different solubilities and absorption properties, so in that case you may inadvertently sacrifice one component for another (and vice versa.) Just from the looks of the resveratrol molecule, I'd take it on an empty stomach to speed assimilation. It's gonna get glucuronidated in the liver to some degree anyway, so may as well overwhelm the enzyme and get as much through as possible. Letting it hang out in your intestines any longer than necessary with food might cause even greater conjugation. BUT, it could be wise to take a cap with a meal also, because my whole fasting theory might be totally off, lol. :)

As far as the atd, a fatty meal would probably be best as Steve pointed out, or at least a couple of your favorite oil caps with a lecithin too.

Anyway, hope this week sees you back on track friend. God bless!
 
DR.D said:
Well if you take it with meals, and that was right, you score 100%. If you take it with meals, and that was wrong, you score 0%. So when in doubt or until you know better, you could cover both bases (meals and fasting) and get at least 50% out of it for sure! lol

Plus, some products have multiple components with different solubilities and absorption properties, so in that case you may inadvertently sacrifice one component for another (and vice versa.) Just from the looks of the resveratrol molecule, I'd take it on an empty stomach to speed assimilation. It's gonna get glucuronidated in the liver to some degree anyway, so may as well overwhelm the enzyme and get as much through as possible. Letting it hang out in your intestines any longer than necessary with food might cause even greater conjugation. BUT, it could be wise to take a cap with a meal also, because my whole fasting theory might be totally off, lol. :)

As far as the atd, a fatty meal would probably be best as Steve pointed out, or at least a couple of your favorite oil caps with a lecithin too.

Anyway, hope this week sees you back on track friend. God bless!
Click to expand...

Interesting...I hadn't considered that kind of approach.

I could do one day w/fats, the next while fasted, ect, ect. Or I could do One in the A.M. in a fasted state, and one at night with a meal/fats.
Do you see a theoretical advantage in one over the other?
 
redemption79 said:
... I could do One in the A.M. in a fasted state, and one at night with a meal/fats.
Do you see a theoretical advantage in one over the other?
Click to expand...

That's generally what I do. First thing in the morning, wait 30min to eat. That gives the fasting ingredients a head start but still helps the fat sols once you eat. With supps that absolutely require fasting, it's better to wait 1 full hour before eating, so half an hour seems like a good compromise in this case.
 
DR.D said:
That's generally what I do. First thing in the morning, wait 30min to eat. That gives the fasting ingredients a head start but still helps the fat sols once you eat. With supps that absolutely require fasting, it's better to wait 1 full hour before eating, so half an hour seems like a good compromise in this case.
Click to expand...

Ok, makes sense to me. I eat my first meal at 3:00p.m., so in this case, you would take the first rev. @ ~2:30... Am I understanding you correctly?
 
redemption79 said:
Ok, makes sense to me. I eat my first meal at 3:00p.m., so in this case, you would take the first rev. @ ~2:30... Am I understanding you correctly?
Click to expand...

Right, that would likely be my approach, then fine tune from there depending on my subjective impressions of effectiveness.
 
Hi redemption79
You said you suffer from reactive hypoglycemia.

I was diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia with a oral glucose tolerance test. I fainted at the 40th minutes into the test.

I have tried everything. More exercise, less exercise, ketogenic diets, 6 meals a day, 12 meals a day, not eating before sleep, breakfast within an hour after waking, removing fruits from my diet but nothing worked.

I'm desperate and I wonder whether you could tell me more about Intermittent Fasting and how and how soon it started to improve your hypoglycemia. Intuitively I thought IF was not something hypoglycemic people would respond positively to and I'm excited to read it might actually work and be the solution to my problem.

Thanks
 
DorianJ said:
Hi redemption79
You said you suffer from reactive hypoglycemia.

I was diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia with a oral glucose tolerance test. I fainted at the 40th minutes into the test.

I have tried everything. More exercise, less exercise, ketogenic diets, 6 meals a day, 12 meals a day, not eating before sleep, breakfast within an hour after waking, removing fruits from my diet but nothing worked.

I'm desperate and I wonder whether you could tell me more about Intermittent Fasting and how and how soon it started to improve your hypoglycemia. Intuitively I thought IF was not something hypoglycemic people would respond positively to and I'm excited to read it might actually work and be the solution to my problem.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I once heard someone refer to eating multiple small meals to control blood sugar as like "continuing to throw little stones into a pond over and over to prevent making waves". Most people think it's our lack of eating that messes up our blood sugar levels, when it's usually quite the opposite. Our body is actually quite good at maintaining consistant bs levels for a day or more, until we screw it up by eating. If we eat the wrong foods, we end up continually administering glucose, which then inflicts an insulin response, which then warrants further glucose uptake...it's a never ending circle.
As a reactive hypoglycemic, you're probably quite familiar with this. I will tell you right up front, I am in no way qualified to give you medical advice in regards to your condition. Reactive hypo is one of those conditions that can be quite confusing, since you experience a blood sugar drop after eating, rather than a spike, right? I can tell you what I would try in your situation, and you can take what info you want.
Usually the worst symptoms are realized 4-6 hours after eating, is this correct in your case? I think after a possibly rough morning or two, your blood sugar levels might stabalize more than you would expect.

First, I think whatever you decide, you should give it at least 3-4 days. Make sure you closely monitor your blood sugar levels and record them. If you get to a dangerous level (totally your discretion. For me I would consider allowing myself to go as low as 60, but depending on the reaction you have to eating, you may want to set that number higher...), abort and try again later. My reaction to IF started changing after the first couple days, but continued to change into the second and third weeks. There is a certain adaptation process the body goes through, and things like hunger, and hypoglycemia-like symptoms (even if you're not at a hypoglycemic level) will greatly decrease as you get further into your program. For instance, Ghrelin is a hormone that causes hunger based mostly on the anticipation of eating. This kind of meal frequency change will no doubt cause some elevated levels of certain hormones like this until the body adapts.

A few questions/suggestions:

-Do you have a meal or food that you use to stabilize your blood sugar levels? I eat a mixture of whey protien, nat. peanut butter, and raw oats at the end of the night. For me, this is the most important meal to get me through the fasting period the next day.

- Try using the BCAAs like extend. I mix one scoop in 16-20 ounces of water, and usually drink 3 or 4 of those during the fasting period. I would do so and test your bs. I have NO evidence that BCAAs can stabilize bs levels, but I can say that mine have been stellar. Lowest reading to date was in the 70's, and that was @ 19hrs. fasted.

- My usual ritual to break the fasting period is a piece of fruit followed by oatmeal with protein powder. The fruit is important as it helps the liver replenish glycogen. You may have to experiement with this and see how your body responds to different foods.

~ I am assuming you already have a glucometer, and you are aware of the hightened risk for diabetes that your condition may present. Don't do this without closely monitoring your blood glucose, and pay attention to any higher readings you get as well. Even lowering to normal glucose levels can cause hypoglycemia symptoms if your blood sugar was high previously. This condition is frequently a precursor to diabetes.

...One more thing,
Most people vastly underestimate the effects of non-dietary influences such as stress or sleep patterns on the body. Don't assume that diet is the only contributor to your hypoglycemia.
 
theshaman said:
you doing ok brother?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll be allright. Thanks for asking bro. I'm not really the kind of guy who gets down too easily, so the last week or so was a growing experience for sure. Just a lot of things happening in life beyond my control, and it eventually got to me. Sometimes when you think you're letting stuff go, you're really just saving it up. Know what I mean?

It's easy for me to forget who's really running the show, especially when things are going well. I think every once in a while I need a wake up call to get back to doing the things I should be doing, which is searching and asking for what God wants out of my life, rather than striving only to satisfy myself. Or just trusting that his plan will prevail, rather than spend my time worrying. I've never solved a problem by worrying to this day.

Ever see that bumper sticker that says "God is my co-pilot"?

Somebody once told me: "If God is your co-pilot, you might want to switch seats."
 
Thanks for replying.

redemption79 said:
I once heard someone refer to eating multiple small meals to control blood sugar as like "continuing to throw little stones into a pond over and over to prevent making waves". Most people think it's our lack of eating that messes up our blood sugar levels, when it's usually quite the opposite. Our body is actually quite good at maintaining consistant bs levels for a day or more, until we screw it up by eating. If we eat the wrong foods, we end up continually administering glucose, which then inflicts an insulin response, which then warrants further glucose uptake...it's a never ending circle.
As a reactive hypoglycemic, you're probably quite familiar with this. I will tell you right up front, I am in no way qualified to give you medical advice in regards to your condition. Reactive hypo is one of those conditions that can be quite confusing, since you experience a blood sugar drop after eating, rather than a spike, right?
Click to expand...

Looking at my OGTT results it seems that my sugars first spikes massively, then after excessive insulin is released, it drops massively, then cortisol and adrenalin are released to create glucose and those hormones create most of the bad emotional feelings of anxiety and panic and spike again glycemia which again is lowered by insulin.

I checked my glycemic graphic and it's like roller coaster or saw tooth.

Usually the worst symptoms are realized 4-6 hours after eating, is this correct in your case? I think after a possibly rough morning or two, your blood sugar levels might stabalize more than you would expect.
Click to expand...

My sugar drops very quickly but it depends on what I eat. On the OGTT it dropped to dangerous levels after 40 minutes. Sometime I get symptoms after 1-2 hours, other times after 3-4 hours and sometime after 15 minutes. The more the initial spike the larger and quicker the next drop.

A few questions/suggestions:

-Do you have a meal or food that you use to stabilize your blood sugar levels? I eat a mixture of whey protien, nat. peanut butter, and raw oats at the end of the night. For me, this is the most important meal to get me through the fasting period the next day.
Click to expand...

Cottage cheese and full fat yogurt combined together helps to stabilize my blood sugar after a crash. I wonder whether cheese and yogurt or okay for us hypoglycemics or should be avoided. I also like wallnuts and they seems to help me as well.

Can you give me more information on what to eat and what not to eat? I react badly to most fruits, what fruits should I use?

Also how many grams of carbs a day are acceptable? Pasta, bread, rice, corn, potatos can be eaten or should be avoided? What are the best carbs for us hypoglycemics?

Does IF make certain foods (i.e. lasagna, ice-cream, chocolate, pizza ...) more tolerable, or it's better to stick to a clean low carb diet anyway?

I like ground beef, sausages, hamburgers, chicken thighs and breast, mozzarella, cottage cheese, cream cheese, swiss cheese, eggs, canned salmon, tuna, mackarel, shrimps, avocado, walnuts, EVO oil, baby peas and all kind of veggies.

What kind of IF setup and number of meals can I design using these basic foods in order to get both enough calories and nutrients and all the benefit of IF? What I'm afraid of is undereating, because my stomach is not accustomed to a big meal or short window time and also psychologically I'm less likely to consume enough food (without a written plan) if I'm not eating many times a day but concentrating the majority of my calories in one unique meal.

Your help is sincerely appreciated!
Thanks again
 
Ok. I haven't updated the log in a while so I figured I'd stop by and drop a few notes.

Weigh in was last Thursday. The results were as follows:

Previous week: 162.0
This week: 160.3
Net loss: 1.7lbs.

At this point I'm looking to slow the weight loss down a bit. I'm not sure I can continue losing 2 lbs. a week. This week's loss of 1.7 lbs. is probably going to be the most I see for the remainder of this log.

SX is still doing it's job in appetite suppression, although at this point, appetite suppression doesn't seem as important as it once did. My sleeping pattern has been altered drasticaly lately, and utilizing SX to get through the day when I'm short on sleep has proven to be quite effective. Also, I'm starting to notice big changes in the "trouble areas", such as lower back, where I'm prone to store those last few pounds of fat. Evidence supporting Lean FX's effectiveness is much harder to come by anecdotaly than SX, but as far as I can tell, it's doing it's job.
 
Dorian, sorry for the lack of speed in response. I don't have time to address your last post tonight, but I will as soon as I can. Hopefully I'll have some time tomorrow night to reply.:burnout:
 
DorianJ said:
Thanks for replying.



Looking at my OGTT results it seems that my sugars first spikes massively, then after excessive insulin is released, it drops massively, then cortisol and adrenalin are released to create glucose and those hormones create most of the bad emotional feelings of anxiety and panic and spike again glycemia which again is lowered by insulin.

I checked my glycemic graphic and it's like roller coaster or saw tooth.



My sugar drops very quickly but it depends on what I eat. On the OGTT it dropped to dangerous levels after 40 minutes. Sometime I get symptoms after 1-2 hours, other times after 3-4 hours and sometime after 15 minutes. The more the initial spike the larger and quicker the next drop.

A few questions/suggestions:



Cottage cheese and full fat yogurt combined together helps to stabilize my blood sugar after a crash. I wonder whether cheese and yogurt or okay for us hypoglycemics or should be avoided. I also like wallnuts and they seems to help me as well.

Can you give me more information on what to eat and what not to eat? I react badly to most fruits, what fruits should I use?

Also how many grams of carbs a day are acceptable? Pasta, bread, rice, corn, potatos can be eaten or should be avoided? What are the best carbs for us hypoglycemics?

Does IF make certain foods (i.e. lasagna, ice-cream, chocolate, pizza ...) more tolerable, or it's better to stick to a clean low carb diet anyway?

I like ground beef, sausages, hamburgers, chicken thighs and breast, mozzarella, cottage cheese, cream cheese, swiss cheese, eggs, canned salmon, tuna, mackarel, shrimps, avocado, walnuts, EVO oil, baby peas and all kind of veggies.

What kind of IF setup and number of meals can I design using these basic foods in order to get both enough calories and nutrients and all the benefit of IF? What I'm afraid of is undereating, because my stomach is not accustomed to a big meal or short window time and also psychologically I'm less likely to consume enough food (without a written plan) if I'm not eating many times a day but concentrating the majority of my calories in one unique meal.

Your help is sincerely appreciated!
Thanks again
Click to expand...

Dorian, like I said, I'm not a professional. You will have to do some research on your own and devise a plan that you think may work. You have more experience with how your body works than anyone, so you should know more than I do what seems to work for you. I have better luck with sweet potatoes than traditional potatoes...whole grain pasta vs. regualar pasta...Whole wheat/high fiber braed vs. white bread...ect.

While IF is benificial in many ways, eating clean is still necessary. It doesn't change the impact/function of poor eating choices or reap benefits that aren't there to be had. You still have to provide the same nourishment to your body you would have when eating traditionally.

I have been advised not to drop below 100gm of carbs/day. Carbs are still necessary to fuels your workouts, not to mention carbs will help to keep healthy levels of cortisol and limit muscle catabolism.

Your caloric intake will be dependent on your goals...I don't know at this point if you are trying to lose weight while using IF, or just seeking an alternative dieting style in hopes to ease the troubles of hypoglycemia. Either way, you can split your meals up in whatever way you find works best for you. I eat 400-500 cals when I break the fast just to fuel my workout, a large meal and my pwo shake after training, and then split the rest up in a couple smaller meals throughout the night. Some people only use a pre wo meal and post wo meal. I find splitting the meals up is a bit more realistic for me.

Also, go to you tube and check out some of Brad Pilon's videos. I believe he has a couple on there addressing IF, and the relationship between eating and insulin release. He is more of an advocate of 24 hr fasts, but has a lot of valuable advice to offer regardless of your fasting timetable.
 
Small update...

My training partner skipped out on last week's weigh in, and I decided to skip the weigh in as well, as my progress is much easier to measure in the mirror at this point. Easter weekend was a bit of a step back, as I broke pattern and ate before my 3:00 scheduled meal Sat. (wife's family easter) and Sun (my family easter). Clean eating was not much more than an idea this weekend, but I am anxious to get back on track to start the week. I've followed a pretty meticulous eating allowance prior to this weekend, so "falling off the wagon" for a couple of days hasn't been too much of a concern.

I am still progressing as planned. Just started working on a tan as well in an effort to create the most dramatic visual difference I can. I did take before pics, and will be taking afters. I will either post pics at the conclusion of this log, or provide a link to the pics.

P.S.
Thanks to everyone who is still following along with this log. I may get busy from time to time and fail to post for a day or two, but I really appreciate the support I have recieved. Knowing others are keeping up on my progress really helps in keeping my motivation high. Thanks guys! :wave:
 
I wouldnt worry about falling off the wagon. I had 4 days of Vegas, buffets and bars:donut: and I still managed to stay the same weight.

:cheers:
 
I just wanted to update this in case someone referenced this log and wondered what happened.

Towards the end of this log, I had some major changes taking place in my life. I decided to focus on my marriage and my career and as a result, I left this log behind me. I apologize to everyone who felt like I left them hanging.

If anything, I think I might be more qualified to assess this recomp now than I was 2+ years ago when it took place. There are things I know now, that I didn't necessarily know when I was involved in this log:

...SX was allegedly found to contain a black market drug believed to be quite dangerous to consume. This explains all the side effects people were having on SX, and the lack of sleep alot of people were experiencing when using it.

...IF has proven to be not only the best way for me to cut, but the best way for me to build muscle as well. I have used the same protocol with higher calorie counts and the results have been impressive. It is refreshing to see how many people on AM are now embracing IF. When I did this log, most people thought I was silly and that IF was nothing but a fancy a recipe for catabolism. There are still doubters, but more and more people are opening up enough to try IF, and a lot of people are loving it!
I am now following an IF 18/6 protocol on a cut, somewhat similar to what I did in this log but at a higher body weight. I have swapped out the sx and lean fx for E-pharm's clear shots (makes a nice stim ****tail mixed with a glass of watermelon xtend by the way...), and Prototype nutritions 11-spray. Both are vastly superior products in my opinion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top