A question for you smart AX Reps.

BigFish80

BigFish80

Member
Hey Guys, first off I'm loving 3-AD right now. AlphaMale all the way. Oh and AXcell ROCKS too!

Now enough fluff. So I'm running a serious 3-AD/Havoc log in the Cycle Info area, (thanks for following T-AD) and I've got a question that I hope you guys can answer. So I currently just finished my 3rd week of my 5 week cycle. Usually in my experiences with epi compounds I'd be shutdown by now, but I'm NOT!!! This is GREAT! so the question is "Could the 3-AD be keeping me from shutting down????" I know for most runs, 3-AD solo doesn't shut most people down and in most cases increases libido. How could this be happening and through which pathways. Ok Bob, break out the BIG words cause I want a good explanation for this one. If this is truly the case, 3-AD would make for a great stacker with any strong anabolic that tends to shut people down quick and hard, would it NOT?????? Could possibly hold off sides of being shut down and prolong certain cycles with certain compounds. Interesting thought none the less.

Like I said, I'm currently starting wk4 of this cycle: (started March 1)

Wk1: 3-AD 4 caps
Wk2: 3-AD 4 caps / Havoc 30 mg
Wk3: 3-AD 5 caps / Havoc 40mg
Wk4: 3-AD 6 caps / Havoc 40mg (Just started this today)
Wk5: Havoc 40-50mg (dosing to be determined)

Pop over and check the log out. Oh and I'm up 10.6 lbs 21 days in. WOW!

Thanks for the indulging me.
 
Yeah, I have two bottles. Gonna start my cycle in a few weeks.

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jmh80 said:
"Smart AX reps" = oxymoron.

heh
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Oooh... I'm hopin that was sarcasm, buck. Don't make me break out my records and start whippin around numbers. ;) :footinmouth:

BigFish80 said:
I guess everyone must be on spring break.
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I usually take the weekend off to be with the family, or ride the bike now that it's decent out. ;)

But in all honesty, I'm not sure on this one but would gladly bump for Bob to chime in. I've got people skills:type:...he's got beaker skills. :bandit:
 
T-AD said:
Oooh... I'm hopin that was sarcasm, buck. Don't make me break out my records and start whippin around numbers. ;) :footinmouth:
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Directed at my buddy Sinner. I'm a better chemical engineer than he is. :laugh:
 
T-AD said:
Oooh... I'm hopin that was sarcasm, buck. Don't make me break out my records and start whippin around numbers. ;) :footinmouth:



I usually take the weekend off to be with the family, or ride the bike now that it's decent out. ;)

But in all honesty, I'm not sure on this one but would gladly bump for Bob to chime in. I've got people skills:type:...he's got beaker skills. :bandit:
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Hey Buddy, I knew you'd be the first AX guy in. Didn't mean to push or anything, just impatient by nature. Yeah it was nice today, but the wife looked at me and said "Go cut the grass". :trout: I hope you had a great day with the fam. I'll be eager to hear what mace or sinner has to say. As always I appreciate the help.
 
Wait for bob (thesinner) to chime in, he's the science guy ;) But in all honesty I cannot see how it could be PREVENTING you from being shutdown, as it should simply add to the shutdown if anything from how I would understand it
 
jmh80 said:
Directed at my buddy Sinner. I'm a better chemical engineer than he is. :laugh:
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lol - strong unaware on my part. HA!! Any chance to knock down a peg, go for it. Just offer up a goat as "sacrifice" and he won't kill us all. ;) :nutkick:

BigFish80 said:
Hey Buddy, I knew you'd be the first AX guy in. Didn't mean to push or anything, just impatient by nature. Yeah it was nice today, but the wife looked at me and said "Go cut the grass". :trout: I hope you had a great day with the fam. I'll be eager to hear what mace or sinner has to say. As always I appreciate the help.
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I'll IM him as soon as I see him on this morning. Mace is out of the loop, so to speak, but may be hangin around now and again. Weekend was nice, but way to short!!!

sublimejeh said:
Wait for bob (thesinner) to chime in, he's the science guy ;) But in all honesty I cannot see how it could be PREVENTING you from being shutdown, as it should simply add to the shutdown if anything from how I would understand it
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Agreed. While the shutdown from it would be very light, by its nature I don't see why it would act to prevent anything. But, who am I to look a gift horse in the mouth? :lol:
 
I'm sure Bob will give you a detailed comment on this topic.

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E-mail w/ link sent to Smart Bruthah from PR Bruthah. ;) :lol:
 
Sublime and T-AD, I hear what you're saying and I know it doesn't seem to make much sense but it is happening. Normally by this time, I'm shutdown especially on a solo epi run dosed the same way. I was just wondering if I was missing something. Oh and woke this morning with the "little buddy" starring me in the face. Then I stepped on the scale this morning and BAM, 226.2lbs (+11.2lbs)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This stack so far has been A+ in my book. I'm just really curious as to why with Havoc run solo at these doses, or even lighter, I was shutdown after week 2 and with this stack I'm still going strong "like bull". Logic would suggest that something is going on here. Puzzling?????
 
BigFish80 said:
Hey Guys, first off I'm loving 3-AD right now. AlphaMale all the way. Oh and AXcell ROCKS too!

Now enough fluff. So I'm running a serious 3-AD/Havoc log in the Cycle Info area, (thanks for following T-AD) and I've got a question that I hope you guys can answer. So I currently just finished my 3rd week of my 5 week cycle. Usually in my experiences with epi compounds I'd be shutdown by now, but I'm NOT!!! This is GREAT! so the question is "Could the 3-AD be keeping me from shutting down????" I know for most runs, 3-AD solo doesn't shut most people down and in most cases increases libido. How could this be happening and through which pathways. Ok Bob, break out the BIG words cause I want a good explanation for this one. If this is truly the case, 3-AD would make for a great stacker with any strong anabolic that tends to shut people down quick and hard, would it NOT?????? Could possibly hold off sides of being shut down and prolong certain cycles with certain compounds. Interesting thought none the less.

Like I said, I'm currently starting wk4 of this cycle: (started March 1)

Wk1: 3-AD 4 caps
Wk2: 3-AD 4 caps / Havoc 30 mg
Wk3: 3-AD 5 caps / Havoc 40mg
Wk4: 3-AD 6 caps / Havoc 40mg (Just started this today)
Wk5: Havoc 40-50mg (dosing to be determined)

Pop over and check the log out. Oh and I'm up 10.6 lbs 21 days in. WOW!

Thanks for the indulging me.
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With regards to shut down: To say it doesn't shut you down would imply that you have seen blood tests before and during the cycle. If you have not, there is no means for which to justify such a statement. The experiences should be mild, as the 3-AD compounds in question are DHT-related, which since they are incapable of converting into either estrogens or glucocortoids, aren't going to hold a very strong effect in your endocrine "system of checks and balances". (Basically, testosterone production is controlled by estrogen and cortisone levels).

With regards to libido: 3 letters, D-H-T. Libido is controlled by neurosteroid receptors in the brain. Believe it or not, testosterone can't be responsible for your libido, as it can't get past the blood brain barrier. In order to do so, we need it to become 5-alpha reduced, which forms Dihydro-testosterone (DHT). Androsterone converts to stanolone, also known as DHT. (We typically say stanolone because there are some things people associate with DHT, that aren't really applicable).

In closing, never use your libido as a means of determining your testosterone levels, as it's somewhat arbitrary of a measurement, and can oftentimes lead you wrong. Increasing DHT levels usually leads to an increase in libido.

The experiences you are describing are similar to someone stacking testosterone with deca-durabolin or 4-AD with 1-testosterone; where, the lacking DHT metabolites of nandrolone or 1-T are compensated with the DHT metabolites of test/4-AD, to maintain a normal libido. People taking such stacks get shut down. They get shut down to china town, but still have a libido.
 
And there it is! Thanks for chiming in, Bob. Just the man for the job... Now, anyone care to assist in scratching the other side of my head? I'm almost that confused... :lol: j/k
 
thesinner said:
With regards to shut down: To say it doesn't shut you down would imply that you have seen blood tests before and during the cycle. If you have not, there is no means for which to justify such a statement. The experiences should be mild, as the 3-AD compounds in question are DHT-related, which since they are incapable of converting into either estrogens or glucocortoids, aren't going to hold a very strong effect in your endocrine "system of checks and balances". (Basically, testosterone production is controlled by estrogen and cortisone levels).

With regards to libido: 3 letters, D-H-T. Libido is controlled by neurosteroid receptors in the brain. Believe it or not, testosterone can't be responsible for your libido, as it can't get past the blood brain barrier. In order to do so, we need it to become 5-alpha reduced, which forms Dihydro-testosterone (DHT). Androsterone converts to stanolone, also known as DHT. (We typically say stanolone because there are some things people associate with DHT, that aren't really applicable).

In closing, never use your libido as a means of determining your testosterone levels, as it's somewhat arbitrary of a measurement, and can oftentimes lead you wrong. Increasing DHT levels usually leads to an increase in libido.

The experiences you are describing are similar to someone stacking testosterone with deca-durabolin or 4-AD with 1-testosterone; where, the lacking DHT metabolites of nandrolone or 1-T are compensated with the DHT metabolites of test/4-AD, to maintain a normal libido. People taking such stacks get shut down. They get shut down to china town, but still have a libido.
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Great Answer! Thanks Bob. Actually this makes alot of sense. In addition, I expressed on my log and to Tim that I thought when I increased the dose of 3-AD from 4 caps to 6 caps a day that I thought that I saw some shedding. So this would be directly related to the increase in DHT which is also helping maitain my libido, RIGHT? Or in theory anyway?
 
Oh and by the way I am going in to have blood tests done tomorrow. Lipid, cholest, hormones, the whole 9. I'll post the results when I get them back. I'm probably going to have them done again at the end of PCT just as a safety precaution.
 
BigFish80 said:
Great Answer! Thanks Bob. Actually this makes alot of sense. In addition, I expressed on my log and to Tim that I thought when I increased the dose of 3-AD from 4 caps to 6 caps a day that I thought that I saw some shedding. So this would be directly related to the increase in DHT which is also helping maitain my libido, RIGHT? Or in theory anyway?
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Yes. DHT increases libido, but can also lead to some thinning. Good news is you go back to normal once you come back off.

In some cultures, strangely enough, male pattern baldness is viewed as a sign of virility and libido.
 
thesinner said:
Yes. DHT increases libido, but can also lead to some thinning. Good news is you go back to normal once you come back off.

In some cultures, strangely enough, male pattern baldness is viewed as a sign of virility and libido.
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Thanks Bob! Awesome, so I'm thinking correctly. T-AD, I guess that answers the question about the shedding. Bob is definitely the man as you stated before.

One more question, so I heard that 3-AD is basically a non-methylated Pheraplex. Is this true? Thanks again bud.
 
The Phrase of the day comes to us from the thesinner:

"SHUT DOWN TO CHINA TOWN!!!" - Just plain AWESOME!:hammer:
(Everyone screams like someone said the secret word on Pee Wee's Playhouse)
 
Well I'm about to head into get my fasting blood work done. Not sure what to expect. I guess by the results we could speculate if I'm shut down, right. Being 24 days in and at high doses, 3-AD 6caps/day & Havoc 40mg/day, I'm assuming that LH and FSH should be way down along with Estrogen. Testosterone should be up????? Bob, how should my test results come back if this stuff is kicked in and has shut me down or in the process of shutting me down? It'll be a about a week before I see the results but I can't wait to see. Just not exactly sure what to look for in regards to which hormone. Thanks for the help.
 
BigFish80 said:
Thanks Bob! Awesome, so I'm thinking correctly. T-AD, I guess that answers the question about the shedding. Bob is definitely the man as you stated before.

One more question, so I heard that 3-AD is basically a non-methylated Pheraplex. Is this true? Thanks again bud.
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Eh... I don't like to think of it as such, but perhaps you could consider the main active in it to be as such. Unlike Havoc, 3-AD is a package deal. There are different elements to it to do various things for you. It's not just one ingredient, and I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions about it. There is no "3-AD" in "3-AD", but rather a blend of synergistic ingredients that, on the whole, do the deed.

Good luck with the bloodwork! Hank Vangut got it done after his initial 3-AD cycle, and it might be worth digging up for a comparison after your's is done. I'll be waiting to see the results! :cheers:
 
OK guys. I think its official, I'm shutdown. I got a call today about my test results and the nurse left a message saying if things were normal, up, or down. The things she really keyed on was messed up LDL/HDL ratios, elevated liver enzymes, and she was really concerned about how low my Testosterone was. I called her back and was able to get what my actual T value was. So here is what I was able to get. I should get everything in detail by mail in the next few days.

BLOOD TEST RESULTS

Cholest = 84 overall
LDL - was slightly elevated.
HDL - was a little low.

Liver Enzymes
Elevated

Thyroid
Normal

Serum/Natural Testosterone
57 ng/dL :jaw:

Urine Test
Everything Normal

Based on my results, they want me to come in for another appointment. Back when I took the blood test I leveled with him and told him what I was taking, but he shugged it off and he said "that stuff at those GNC stores isn't going to hurt you". I guess he was wrong there. I am going in for another appointment soon, but I am going to see if they will hold off on another blood test for about 3-4 weeks. This way we can see just how effective a Nolva, aPCT, Cycle Support, Lean FX (maybe Sustain Alpha) PCT strategy is. However I had a buddy of mine tell me that he may try to stick me on hCG to bounce me back. hCG would be hard to turndown. We'll have to see. I'll keep everyone updated.

What does everyone think?
 
thesinner said:
Serum total test or free test?

If total, yeah terrible.

If free, not so bad.
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Serum = Total

So does this mean I'm "shut down to China town"?

Yeah, it was low enough for the doc to want me to come in ASAP to discuss a strategy to get it up. He knows about the supplements that I've been taking.

Bob, if he wants me to get on hCG should I go with it??? I think this would bounce me back faster of course. Shouldn't this speed up things and get my boys pumping again sooner compared to the PCT that I've got lined up? Just curious on your thoughts since you are one of the smartest cats around here. The doc hasn't offered up this strategy as of yet but he hinted at it. If he offers this I think it will be hard to turn down. Kind of a "super" PCT in comparison to what I have available.
 
I want to say the lower limit is something like 250 ng/dL, so you are at about 1/5th of what you're supposed to be at.

Hcg will increase your libido like a MF, as it mimicks your gonadotropins. I would still try to incorporate some sort of anti-estrogenic compound, as they work via the testosterone:estrogen checks and balances, in a self-propagating manner (body senses estrogen is low, so it produces more androgens, but they don't form estrogens easily, so it produces more androgens).

I guess the ball is in your doc's court right now. An endo would say "F it" because he knows the body will self-readjust itself in time. I'll say this time and time again, the purpose of PCT is not to prevent yourself from having a messed up hormonal profile, it's simply about speeding up the process of normalizing your hormones after the cycle.
 
thesinner said:
I want to say the lower limit is something like 250 ng/dL, so you are at about 1/5th of what you're supposed to be at.

Hcg will increase your libido like a MF, as it mimicks your gonadotropins. I would still try to incorporate some sort of anti-estrogenic compound, as they work via the testosterone:estrogen checks and balances, in a self-propagating manner (body senses estrogen is low, so it produces more androgens, but they don't form estrogens easily, so it produces more androgens).

I guess the ball is in your doc's court right now. An endo would say "F it" because he knows the body will self-readjust itself in time. I'll say this time and time again, the purpose of PCT is not to prevent yourself from having a messed up hormonal profile, it's simply about speeding up the process of normalizing your hormones after the cycle.
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Correct sir.

IMO-

Those post cycle test numbers mean little to me. I want to see numbers at 5 and 9 weeks post cycle. Also test numbers prior to cycle would be valuable as well. Then one would have the data to see if full recovery was attained.

Please post up your next blood panel, Bigfish.

I would run your pct, then take a full week off of everything then get tested again.

I am very curious how well that pct protocol ( Nolva, aPCT, Cycle Support, Lean FX maybe Sustain Alpha) works.

Thats a pretty potent pct if you ask me.

My 2 pennies.
 
Kristofer68SS said:
Correct sir.

IMO-

Those post cycle test numbers mean little to me. I want to see numbers at 5 and 9 weeks post cycle. Also test numbers prior to cycle would be valuable as well. Then one would have the data to see if full recovery was attained.

Please post up your next blood panel, Bigfish.

I would run your pct, then take a full week off of everything then get tested again.

I am very curious how well that pct protocol ( Nolva, aPCT, Cycle Support, Lean FX maybe Sustain Alpha) works.

Thats a pretty potent pct if you ask me.

My 2 pennies.
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Yeah I'm going to meet with the doc this week or early next to discuss things. Wednesday will be my last day on cycle, so I'll start PCT on Thursday. I think I'm just going to go with my pct and see if the doc will test me a week or so after I finish my final week of PCT.
 
Yeah so the PCT that I have is pretty good, but I also have a bottle of Toco 8 (that I forgot I had) that I may add as well. So PCT would look like this.

PCT:

wk1: Nolva (30mg for the first 4 days, then 20mg), aPCT, Sustain Alpha, Taco 8, CS
wk2: Nolva 20mg, aPCT, Sustain Alpha, Taco 8, CS
wk3: Nolva 10mg, aPCT, Sustain Alpha, Taco 8, CS, Lean FX
wk4: Nolva 10mg, aPCT, Sustain Alpha, Taco 8, CS, Lean FX
**also will be taking Incarnate, Jack3d, Creatine Mono.

Anyone think this is overkill on the test boosters?
 
Alright I'm going to trust the collective knowledge b/t the 2 of you. Here is the PCT I'm starting tomorrow.

Wk1: Nolva (30mg for the first 4 days then 20mg), aPCT, Toco-8, Cycle Support
Wk2: Nolva 20mg, aPCT, Toco-8, Cycle Support
Wk3: Nolva 10mg, aPCT, Toco-8, Lean FX, Cycle Support
Wk4: Nolva 10mg, aPCT, Toco-8, Lean FX, Cycle Support
**I'll also be taking Jack3d with added Creatine Mono, Incarnate, Animal Flex. I might pick up some VenEVOL as well.**

I'll keep the Sustain Alpha in reserve. I also have a bottle of DTHC in my stash for a later run. I think this would cover all my bases in PCT. What do you big boys think?
 
BigFish80 said:
Alright I'm going to trust the collective knowledge b/t the 2 of you. Here is the PCT I'm starting tomorrow.

Wk1: Nolva (30mg for the first 4 days then 20mg), aPCT, Toco-8, Cycle Support
Wk2: Nolva 20mg, aPCT, Toco-8, Cycle Support
Wk3: Nolva 10mg, aPCT, Toco-8, Lean FX, Cycle Support
Wk4: Nolva 10mg, aPCT, Toco-8, Lean FX, Cycle Support
**I'll also be taking Jack3d with added Creatine Mono, Incarnate, Animal Flex. I might pick up some VenEVOL as well.**

I'll keep the Sustain Alpha in reserve. I also have a bottle of DTHC in my stash for a later run. I think this would cover all my bases in PCT. What do you big boys think?
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i like it............The only thing I would change if it were me. I would switch nolva to clomid. personal preference

Other than that , I think your GTG.
 
Kristofer68SS said:
i like it............The only thing I would change if it were me. I would switch nolva to clomid. personal preference

Other than that , I think your GTG.
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contrary to popular belief, clomid is more effective. Nolva is usually cheaper, easier to find, and doesn't have some of the strange side effects that come akin with clomid.
 
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