Did I get bunk Epistane?

sciencegeek

New member
Trying to go about this politely and fairly, not blaming anyone or anything yet.

Got some Epistane from Nutraplanet. Ran it for 30 days. Didn't gain an ounce, but nipples got sensitive and puffy.

Previously ran havoc with 10 lb gain and no nipple issues.Short run with mdrol, also, good results.

Training seriously for a few years, diet solid. I'll even post the link to the butcher shop where I buy in bulk. Weight previously stable or slowly climbing. The addition of Epistane 30mg a day, for 30 days resulted in NOTHING.

30 years old, 6'2'', 180 lbs. I think I covered everything relevant. How did I not get bunk stuff? What on earth did I put in my body?

I threw away the bottle, foolishly, without recording any codes on it...
 
sciencegeek said:
Trying to go about this politely and fairly, not blaming anyone or anything yet.

Got some Epistane from Nutraplanet. Ran it for 30 days. Didn't gain an ounce, but nipples got sensitive and puffy.

Previously ran havoc with 10 lb gain and no nipple issues.Short run with mdrol, also, good results.

Training seriously for a few years, diet solid. I'll even post the link to the butcher shop where I buy in bulk. Weight previously stable or slowly climbing. The addition of Epistane 30mg a day, for 30 days resulted in NOTHING.

30 years old, 6'2'', 180 lbs. I think I covered everything relevant. How did I not get bunk stuff? What on earth did I put in my body?

I threw away the bottle, foolishly, without recording any codes on it...
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If you were indeed trying to go about this politely, you could have just PM'ed me or another Rep.

And I can ensure you that the Epistane that is put out through IBE is of top notch raws.

Seeing how you threw your bottle out, I'm not sure what you want here.
 
sciencegeek said:
Trying to go about this politely and fairly, not blaming anyone or anything yet.

Got some Epistane from Nutraplanet. Ran it for 30 days. Didn't gain an ounce, but nipples got sensitive and puffy.

Previously ran havoc with 10 lb gain and no nipple issues.Short run with mdrol, also, good results.

Training seriously for a few years, diet solid. I'll even post the link to the butcher shop where I buy in bulk. Weight previously stable or slowly climbing. The addition of Epistane 30mg a day, for 30 days resulted in NOTHING.

30 years old, 6'2'', 180 lbs. I think I covered everything relevant. How did I not get bunk stuff? What on earth did I put in my body?

I threw away the bottle, foolishly, without recording any codes on it...
Click to expand...

How close together did you run the Epi and Havoc?

If you had sensitive nipples (which is possible with ANY AAS use), its a pretty good sign it wasnt bunk.

Also how old was the Epi. IIRC they had some issues, but that was a year or so back (black caps).
 
tnick7 said:
How close together did you run the Epi and Havoc?

If you had sensitive nipples (which is possible with ANY AAS use), its a pretty good sign it wasnt bunk.

Also how old was the Epi. IIRC they had some issues, but that was a year or so back (black caps).
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He said he recently bought it from Nutra, so it had to be a white cap. (Nutra doesn't have any black capped Epistanes - fact).

He also threw the bottle away which has the batch number. :think:
 
Iron Lungz said:
He said he recently bought it from Nutra, so it had to be a white cap. (Nutra doesn't have any black capped Epistanes - fact).

He also threw the bottle away which has the batch number. :think:
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He doesn't say recently, does he? I'm half asleep might have missed something :think:

Anyhow, no one complained of the black caps not producing results :D

Only thing I can think of is its a second cycle with the same compound. Wonder what the break in between was? And if the dosing scheme was upped from the last cycle?

OP FWIW I've run the white caps epistane successfully.
 
If you are getting puffy nips then something is happening. Not sure why you aren't gaining weight but I have tried each of the last few batches and it feels the same to me. I won't base it off of that of course but we have EVERY single batch of every shipment of every product tested rigorously. I am not talking about BS tests either. I am so sick of hearing companies talk about how they test their supplements. Many do a half ass job and could care less what the results are anyways and I don't care that other companies see me saying this.

I have always been big on testing and we have had heavy metal testing, quantitative, and qualitative analysis done on everything and we have taken extra steps to test the product in the past to ensure that it was what it was so that we could have a standard to test against. Everything from X-Ray diffraction to NMR has been done and I can assure you it is the exact same thing every time.

You should look into storage conditions though. Methylepitiostanol is a heat unstable compound and although most companies and users have ignored me about this, the compound can break down in higher heat conditions such as in sunlight, in a car, etc. A non air conditioned facility can also have this effect, the sulfur bridge is not an extremely stable bond.
 
tnick7 said:
How close together did you run the Epi and Havoc?

If you had sensitive nipples (which is possible with ANY AAS use), its a pretty good sign it wasnt bunk.

Also how old was the Epi. IIRC they had some issues, but that was a year or so back (black caps).
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+1.....with the sensitive nips it doesn't sound bunk to me either.
 
nattydisaster said:
Obviously a drama starting troll.
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I'm a 30 year old married law enforcement officer. A completely normal guy, not obsessed with working out or steroids, and by my post count I clearly don't have any interest in starting 'drama', a term I'm not sure I even understand.

I go to work and when I have a free second, I work on my house. Please don't try to undermine what I said by suggesting I'm some kid playing on the internet. You clearly live online, in more ways than one. I didn't even have a computer for half of 2008.

My concern is that I bought some mystery compound online that was supposed to be the same as Havoc. It was not. It gave me zero gains and caused nipple issues, which, as other have suggested, indicate some pharmaceutical effect. Now I find myself wondering what the hell I put in my body! It clearly was not what was sold to me.

1. The havoc and epi cycles were 1 year apart, same time of year, better diet on the epi cycle

2. I threw the bottle away because I put all the epi pills in one of those pill containers that seperates the days, so I wouldn't miss a day

3. Unlike most, I have pre cycle bloodwork. Everything was good. I'm not a kid playing with pills.

I understand that some internet heros will defend companies online, for no other reason than to feel connected to someone or something. I'm not anyone's 'bro', I don't have an agenda. YOU'RE not anyone's bro just because you pat a stranger on the ass online!
 
what was up with the black top bottles? that's what i ran last year and had awesome results with... i've got the white top bottle right now in the stash. what is the difference with them?
 
sciencegeek said:
I'm a 30 year old married law enforcement officer. A completely normal guy, not obsessed with working out or steroids, and by my post count I clearly don't have any interest in starting 'drama', a term I'm not sure I even understand.

I go to work and when I have a free second, I work on my house. Please don't try to undermine what I said by suggesting I'm some kid playing on the internet. You clearly live online, in more ways than one. I didn't even have a computer for half of 2008.

My concern is that I bought some mystery compound online that was supposed to be the same as Havoc. It was not. It gave me zero gains and caused nipple issues, which, as other have suggested, indicate some pharmaceutical effect. Now I find myself wondering what the hell I put in my body! It clearly was not what was sold to me.

1. The havoc and epi cycles were 1 year apart, same time of year, better diet on the epi cycle

2. I threw the bottle away because I put all the epi pills in one of those pill containers that seperates the days, so I wouldn't miss a day

3. Unlike most, I have pre cycle bloodwork. Everything was good. I'm not a kid playing with pills.

I understand that some internet heros will defend companies online, for no other reason than to feel connected to someone or something. I'm not anyone's 'bro', I don't have an agenda. YOU'RE not anyone's bro just because you pat a stranger on the ass online!
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go to the picture section and look at the thread "epistane difference" then tell me epistane is bunk. i'm not a rep for anyone or a nut hugger. just tell it like it is...
 
To the OP: Steroids do not make you gain weight (outside of transient water retention). Food does. If you didn't gain an ounce, then you can fault yourself for not eating enough. New tissue isn't built out of thin air. It takes energy. If you don't provide that surplus energy, then you're not going to grow. Get your diet in check (i.e. in terms of calories). Once you're eating enough to grow, then steroids will have an effect on what you gain, so more of it is muscle and less of it is fat.
 
bb4life said:
what was up with the black top bottles? that's what i ran last year and had awesome results with... i've got the white top bottle right now in the stash. what is the difference with them?
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Nothing in the least. When they were black tops PA tested it, and didn't test it right, and when the single bond broke down the molecular weight was the same as tren. So EVERYONE and their brother claimed IBE tainted the blacktops with tren (Which if ANYONE knows anything knows you cant pack enough tren in a cap to work orally) even though everyone got the same results as the "White" tops.

I am sure Lake can explain things better than I though.

Adams
 
Conciliator said:
To the OP: Steroids do not make you gain weight (outside of transient water retention). Food does. If you didn't gain an ounce, then you can fault yourself for not eating enough. New tissue isn't built out of thin air. It takes energy. If you don't provide that surplus energy, then you're not going to grow. Get your diet in check (i.e. in terms of calories). Once you're eating enough to grow, then steroids will have an effect on what you gain, so more of it is muscle and less of it is fat.
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Great post. I think it was brolic on here that was claiming the same thing, then when asked about his diet he said "I eat enough/alot"

Adams
 
I just run my first ever PS cycle and it was epistane, and ate a lot, lifted a lot (too much, actually.....got overtrained I think) and made great gains and almost nothing for sides (nip and nut, anyway). White caps, white bottle cap....bought in Oct. of 08...........
 
Conciliator said:
To the OP: Steroids do not make you gain weight (outside of transient water retention). Food does. If you didn't gain an ounce, then you can fault yourself for not eating enough. New tissue isn't built out of thin air. It takes energy. If you don't provide that surplus energy, then you're not going to grow. Get your diet in check (i.e. in terms of calories). Once you're eating enough to grow, then steroids will have an effect on what you gain, so more of it is muscle and less of it is fat.
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This is the main problem with people calling any muscle gainer bunk in my opinion. It either doesn't work that well, is truly bunk, or you are not eating enough, with the latter being about 90% of the cases.

I am so sick of people calling everyone's (not just ours) products bunk without knowing anything about the testing process, whether it was tested, or anything.

As I said we would have replaced the bottle for you free of charge if you think it didn't work but the other 9 out of 10 love it.
 
Conciliator said:
To the OP: Steroids do not make you gain weight (outside of transient water retention). Food does. If you didn't gain an ounce, then you can fault yourself for not eating enough. New tissue isn't built out of thin air. It takes energy. If you don't provide that surplus energy, then you're not going to grow. Get your diet in check (i.e. in terms of calories). Once you're eating enough to grow, then steroids will have an effect on what you gain, so more of it is muscle and less of it is fat.
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Exactly. Taking a pro hormone doesn't guarantee weight gain or anything if you aren't doing anything right. You haven't told us your diet or anything, or even your routine that you do at home. No offense, but unless you have a very large expensive home gym, you aren't really optimizing yourself for good gains.

Since gaining weight from your previous cycles, how has you diet changed? More calories? More fat? Less fat? Do you even keep track of this?

The reason I ask, if you were eating 4000cals a day and it made you gain 10lbs, and you kept those 10lbs, and you did another cycle, still eating 4000cals, you're not going to gain weight. You cant gain weight from breathing air. You gain weight from increased caloric intake. And then taking steroids, its not about eating a lot to gain weight, its about eating a lot of the right things.

Just don't expect to be able to able to gain 10lbs everytime you take something, just because it happened to you before, or to some other guy.

The puffy nips could have happened for a few reasons, all based on your body, not the compound. In your pre-cycle bloodwork, do you happen to have any of the following tested?

Testosterone (total)
E2 (or any form of estrogen panel)
Progesterone
Prolactin
DHEA
Etc.

If so, please scan the results and post them, with a date. Puffy/itchy nipples is USUALLY related to high proges. There is NO WAY epistane would have any form of a proges related compound in it. It would be impossible. Odds are there was some imbalance in your body from previous cycles, even if it was over a year ago. Maybe you didnt run a good PCT, maybe your body didn't actually recover from PCT. The only way to know would be from blood tests.

If there was any form of imbalance in different hormone panels in your body, then adding a steroid to the mix could make ANYTHING happen, based on what the issue is with your body.

You got 10mg 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan- 17b-ol per capsule. How do i know? They are tested rigorously, as Lake said. Its impossible for "just one bottle" to be different. These batches are tested very throughoughly before capped, and after capped, before being released on the market. So it doesn't matter that you don't have the batch number. There's no bad batch.
 
LakeMountD said:
This is the main problem with people calling any muscle gainer bunk in my opinion. It either doesn't work that well, is truly bunk, or you are not eating enough, with the latter being about 90% of the cases.

I am so sick of people calling everyone's (not just ours) products bunk without knowing anything about the testing process, whether it was tested, or anything.

As I said we would have replaced the bottle for you free of charge if you think it didn't work but the other 9 out of 10 love it.
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More like 999 out of 1000 love it.
 
Iron Lungz said:
Damn!
My Epistane was bunk. Can you replace my 10 bottles? :D
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Honestly, I think this is a problem. I have seen a lot of dudes saying "oh my bottle is bunk" and three days later "XXXXXX is great, they sent me a free one"! Hopefully this isn't something that people are going to start doing regularly, not just to IBE, but every company. I see it done to everyone.

And no "sciencegeek", im not saying that's what you're trying to do.




Iron...since you're a good guy i'll send you 20.
 
nattydisaster said:
Obviously a drama starting troll.
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The man has 18 posts in 2 years, obviously not a drama starting troll. He merely posted a query.

If you on behalf of IBE want to start bullshit, Im sure AM members wont be far behind calling IBE the next USP labs with their whole "non-responders" BS.


Natty disaster, werent you the guy that used to have the homer simpson picture in your avy, the empty head with the tiny brain, X-ray type thing? If I remember correctly your first couple hundred posts were pure drivel, people flaming you left and right, how the hell did you get picked up as a rep?
 
Although I am new-ish to AM, the reason I joined was because I had been out of the "prohormone" game since M1T/1-Ad/etc days. I came here with a lot of newb questions on the new prohormones, getting flamed.

As far as other topics go, I have been in the game for quite some time. Modded for a forum in the past before stepping down when I stayed off the forums for a few years.

Ask me something :squat: haha
 
futurepilot said:
The man has 18 posts in 2 years, obviously not a drama starting troll. He merely posted a query.

If you on behalf of IBE want to start bullshit, Im sure AM members wont be far behind calling IBE the next USP labs with their whole "non-responders" BS.


Natty disaster, werent you the guy that used to have the homer simpson picture in your avy, the empty head with the tiny brain, X-ray type thing? If I remember correctly your first couple hundred posts were pure drivel, people flaming you left and right, how the hell did you get picked up as a rep?
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No one said non-responder. Natty is a smart mother fxcker... thats why he is a rep. He railed off the handle at first, and then proceeded to ask questions to pin down the culprit.

If anyone here has a problem with how responses were handled, PM me. Lake gave the science... I gave the reason for "Black top" brotelligence. What more do you want? Everything is tested, and legit.. every one is still making gains on this and every batch of Epi.

Adams
 
qnzlilshotta said:
im running epi now didnt notice any strength gains but i think i put on about 7-8 lbs. i do look a bit leaner and more musclular but feel as if my strength actually went down instead of up!! im 3 weeks into the cycle and just upped my dosage to 40mg 3 days ago...i also had the itchy/burning nips in week 2 when i bumped my dosage to 30mg
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hah you go itchy/burning nips and bumped the dosage up!! why didnt i think of that!
 
I think we need to let this rest.

ScienceGeek, please feel free to PM me with any questions that you may have. I am here to help, and I will do so if I can.
 
i ordered epi december 08...i am in the 3rd week of my cycle starting the fourth week tommorw... for awhile i too beleived there might have been a problem with my bottle of epi.. i reevaluated what i was doing... cut down the length of my workouts.. i was over training.. i bumped my dosage up to 40-now 50mg.. and began to eat like a mad man.. lucky for me after doing this i can now say i am up 8 pounds.. with about the same bodyfat, if not slightly reduced and still have 4 days at 50mg left.. i am looking leaner then ever even though my weight is up.. although my strength has not went up very much.. but this just proves everyone responds differently to different compounds.. epi seems more like anavar to me.. it hardened my muscles like nothing else, and put on some weight .. ppl are expecting epi to work like a ten week cycle of test in 4 weeks are going to be sadly mistaken.. i do believe 8 pounds in 21 days is fantastic even if i dont put on another pound ... i wish ppl would stop expecting miracles from these drugs and evaluate what they are doing wrong before complaining
 
this was my first cycle also.. and to start i was expecting 15-20 pounds.. but then i realized damn, this is a 3.5-4 week cycle.. u are not going to be putting on weight like that... maybe on a 12 week cycle of test 20 pounds is possible.. but for a cycle that is 1/3 of that time.. putting on 8-10 lbs of lbm is fantastic .. u too often see ppl gaining 20 pounds of epistane, and it makes me wonder if these ppl truely were at there genetic potential before starting a steroid
 
futurepilot said:
The man has 18 posts in 2 years, obviously not a drama starting troll. He merely posted a query.

If you on behalf of IBE want to start bullshit, Im sure AM members wont be far behind calling IBE the next USP labs with their whole "non-responders" BS.


Natty disaster, werent you the guy that used to have the homer simpson picture in your avy, the empty head with the tiny brain, X-ray type thing? If I remember correctly your first couple hundred posts were pure drivel, people flaming you left and right, how the hell did you get picked up as a rep?
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You are comparing us to USP which was releasing a new product? Epistane has been out since winter 2006, it is a proven product. There is no such thing as a true non responder unless they have a disease state of some sort. There are people who respond better than others and some that need to eat more or train more/less to get results.

I understand he started a query, I have no problem with that, in fact I am a strong proponent of it. However, there should be a process. a) talk to the company about it, most are willing to give a refund. b) do some research. Saying something (with 100% certainty as he did) is not what it says on the label when you have zero experience with any testing protocols is just irresponsible and it makes me question motive. Yes, I will admit I get completely annoyed when people do this, especially with a product that has been out for so long and has so many logs with people who responded amazingly.

Most people who have underdosed methylepitiostanol from ANY company probably have bottles that were somehow subjected to high heat such as in a car or a non climate controlled warehouse. I will say it again, it is highly heat unstable.
 
bb4life said:
go to the picture section and look at the thread "epistane difference" then tell me epistane is bunk. i'm not a rep for anyone or a nut hugger. just tell it like it is...
Click to expand...


bb4life probably has the best transformation pics on here resulting from Epsitane by far!
 
I'm pulsing IBE epistane now , about 4 weeks into it, and I've got to say I'm pretty impressed with the results (white capped bottle and all). Good strength and mass gains. The others are correct, your nipple issues indicate some type of hormonal action.

How long since your last cycle? Running them too close together can limit your gains, but I'm guessing you already know that. I find it unlikely that IBE put out a bad batch or you'd see a slew of people bitching. But any details you can provide that would help troubleshoot....
 
honestly broski.. 50 mg would prob be perfect.. i think u just need to up that dose 40mg is too low for any1 above 190 lower then 13-14 percent bodyfat..
 
thatscrazy i felt nothing till 40mg .. which barely did anything.. i also maxed out my genetic potential far more then most ppl i read about and see pictures of on this board... i was sitting at 185-190 for 3 yrs at 10-12 percent body fat before even thinking about using roids... i seriously could not make gains.. it was frustrating.. i was maxing at 330 bench, 450 squat 405 dead lift coming out of high school at 185 ..5'9-5'10 for th next 3 yrs i gained litteraly nothing no matter what i tried.. i would gain a little weight, lose a little .. but was pretty much maxed out for my genetic potential before starting.. perfected my diet for 2 yrs before starting roids... now im working on my first cycle.. and loving it.. cant wait for my next cycle.. which will most certainly be something like 12 weeks test e jumped with dbol.. and finished with epi for weeks 10-14
 
Hey Lake,

At what temp does instability start to become an issue?
 
In defense of the OP, I think he was just a bit frustrated at spending money for a product that did not work for him. I/ we as consumers tend to get a bit irate when money is spent, and the expected results not achieved; it is common. In his post he said his diet was better when he ran Epi, than when he ran Havoc; he had better gains on Havoc. I know not every consumer can be pleased, but I think out of good measure ,just send him a bottle, and have him do a sponsored log, and as part of the stipulation, he outlines his routine, and diet. If he agrees, then the end result (whether he gains or not) will be an amicable one.
 
ABNRanger said:
In defense of the OP, I think he was just a bit frustrated at spending money for a product that did not work for him. I/ we as consumers tend to get a bit irate when money is spent, and the expected results not achieved; it is common. In his post he said his diet was better when he ran Epi, than when he ran Havoc; he had better gains on Havoc. I know not every consumer can be pleased, but I think out of good measure ,just send him a bottle, and have him do a sponsored log, and as part of the stipulation, he outlines his routine, and diet. If he agrees, then the end result (whether he gains or not) will be an amicable one.
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I agree. I tried to help, but the thread quickly took a different turn.

All apologies, OP.
 
ABNRanger said:
In defense of the OP, I think he was just a bit frustrated at spending money for a product that did not work for him. I/ we as consumers tend to get a bit irate when money is spent, and the expected results not achieved; it is common. In his post he said his diet was better when he ran Epi, than when he ran Havoc; he had better gains on Havoc. I know not every consumer can be pleased, but I think out of good measure ,just send him a bottle, and have him do a sponsored log, and as part of the stipulation, he outlines his routine, and diet. If he agrees, then the end result (whether he gains or not) will be an amicable one.
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I agree, I am the same way with other types of products. My point was all he had to do was send a PM and I would have refunded his money no problem.

Here is the thing that is fishy to me. He says he gained nothing yet got itchy nips. With that being said even if the capsules contained good ol' fresh air with nothing in them he still would have gained weight if his diet was in check for a bulking phase. No one seems to think it is a little strange that he gained no weight regardless? Heck when I am in full bulk mode I can put on at least a lb. a week. Secondly, if he got itchy nips then there was some sort of androgenic activity.

Again, IBE's official position, is that it isn't a problem, we would have refunded it if he wasn't happy with the product. Next time (this goes for anyone with any company's products) just PM them first and find out what can be done and if there is truly a problem :).

StxNas: I never did tests at different temperatures, only noticed the breakdown after subjecting it to higher heat conditions and in the GC. It would have taken a while to measure the breakdown at different temperatures, for different times, then quantitate it. If I still had frequent access to the equipment I would.
 
LakeMountD said:
I agree, I am the same way with other types of products. My point was all he had to do was send a PM and I would have refunded his money no problem.

Here is the thing that is fishy to me. He says he gained nothing yet got itchy nips. With that being said even if the capsules contained good ol' fresh air with nothing in them he still would have gained weight if his diet was in check for a bulking phase. No one seems to think it is a little strange that he gained no weight regardless? Heck when I am in full bulk mode I can put on at least a lb. a week. Secondly, if he got itchy nips then there was some sort of androgenic activity.

Again, IBE's official position, is that it isn't a problem, we would have refunded it if he wasn't happy with the product. Next time (this goes for anyone with any company's products) just PM them first and find out what can be done and if there is truly a problem :).

StxNas: I never did tests at different temperatures, only noticed the breakdown after subjecting it to higher heat conditions and in the GC. It would have taken a while to measure the breakdown at different temperatures, for different times, then quantitate it. If I still had frequent access to the equipment I would.
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This post should be the stamp for all good companies. IBE (reps/owners/employees) really want satisfied customers, and are willing to go the extra mile if needed.

I'm a consumer first and foremost - I know what it feels like to have a company turn their back on you, only to fix the same problem for another poster. It sucks. With that being said, I will do whatever I can to help anyone that truly needs the help. A simple PM to me and I will get the ball rolling as quickly as possible.
 
Well he either gave up, or is just watching the thread; he has not posted in a while. OP, don't take any of these responses personally, I know some guys come off as asx2, but the general concensus is that we are all here to help or be helped. So, if you are still watching this thread, and want a resolution to your issue, PM one of the reps here, and they will try to take care of your issue for you. As a law man, I am sure you can respect the reps' views......in your case, it's like some one coming to file a report about something, but they don't have any evidence to prove their issue.
Daaaaaaamn, can't we all just get along. Yall know my blood pressure high, lol.
 
Thanks Lake.

I only asked b/c I was looking through my stash today and noticed that FA suggests that their EpiDrol be stored in temps as follows: 15-30 degrees Celsius/15-66 degrees Fahrenheit. I'm guessing that should probably 86 instead of 66 though (30 C ~ 86 F) ;)
 
LakeMountD said:
This is the main problem with people calling any muscle gainer bunk in my opinion. It either doesn't work that well, is truly bunk, or you are not eating enough, with the latter being about 90% of the cases.
Click to expand...

i think you are being generous by saying the latter is only 90% :)
 
sciencegeek said:
Trying to go about this politely and fairly, not blaming anyone or anything yet.

Got some Epistane from Nutraplanet. Ran it for 30 days. Didn't gain an ounce, but nipples got sensitive and puffy.

Previously ran havoc with 10 lb gain and no nipple issues.Short run with mdrol, also, good results.

Training seriously for a few years, diet solid. I'll even post the link to the butcher shop where I buy in bulk. Weight previously stable or slowly climbing. The addition of Epistane 30mg a day, for 30 days resulted in NOTHING.

30 years old, 6'2'', 180 lbs. I think I covered everything relevant. How did I not get bunk stuff? What on earth did I put in my body?

I threw away the bottle, foolishly, without recording any codes on it...
Click to expand...
are you guys even eating or what.wheres the diet and training regiment at?..so im guessing to you were at 170 before havoc?..you guys are all posting this and that about this product!..but wheres your numbers!..stats!..the other guy thats complaining is barely over 140lbs...whats up with that bro.:think:
 
imo!..the main board should be your last choice if you have a complaint to make for some reason.like ironlungz said,a simple p.m would have been sufficiant,and if you would not get a reply that way. then by all means please post it up.but at least try to p.m a rep or something im sure they would be more then happy to help you out!
 
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