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How to "pulse" orals

wood23 said:
I think people get to worked up about having before and after blood tests. I think personally if a person can say that they feel fine, have maintained strength and muscle gained a month or so after a cycle and sexual function is okay it is good enough for me. ...
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You would think this is a pretty common sense understanding, but I guess some people do not understand their bodies that well or have been convinced otherwise. Bloodwork is helpful at first until you have good biofeedback comprehension, or if experimenting with something new and potentially toxic, but for the most part the proof is in the results.

If you held your strength, you feel balanced, and your sex life is stable, you must have done it right! You know what you've got by the fruit it bears. If you lost your weight, lost your libido, and feel bad, then something went wrong and bloodwork might help to determine a solution. Pretty simple.
 
Mu5tang69 said:
I train after 7pm on a 3 day split. What u said appeals to me, I think I feel the same way about post work out recover.

On a 4 day split. Dosing on ur 3 off days, early in the morning.

Example,

Training: Mon-Wed-Fri-Sat
Dosing first thing in the AM: Tues-Thurs-Sat


Day 1 - Train
Day 2 - Dose first thing in the AM
Day 3 - Train
Day 4 - Dose first thing in the AM
Day 5 - Train
Day 6 - Dose first thing in the AM
Day 7 - Train

or

Example,

Training: M-W-F
Dosing early in the AM: T-T-S

im guna try this it out :)
Click to expand...

What is the logic behind dosing it on off days? I'm considering doing a pulse cycle of Epi and trying to find the best way to do it, but this never crossed my mind.....
 
BuckeyeMuscle said:
What is the logic behind dosing it on off days? I'm considering doing a pulse cycle of Epi and trying to find the best way to do it, but this never crossed my mind.....
Click to expand...

Muscles grow while they are recovering, not while ur beating & ripping them apart :)

i train after 7pm so it prolly be more optimal with my schedule.
 
i think his views are that it is compound dependent :) a more anabolic compound is ok off days, a more androgenic compound is largely wasted if you dont doseit preworkout
 
EasyEJL said:
i think his views are that it is compound dependent :) a more anabolic compound is ok off days, a more androgenic compound is largely wasted if you dont doseit preworkout
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So Tbol the next morning, Dbol pre/post work out?

saying that, we think Tbol's half life is too long to pulse? or if taken at say 7am is it 'likely' ot be ok? it has around an 8 hour half life doesn't it? so take 30mg 7am, 3pm you have about 15mg in yuor system, 11pm you have about 7.5mg in your system........7am you have just under 4mg in your system so would that supress you for that day? or that morning when your ment to have highest test levels? if so I guess thats no good?
 
DR.D said:
You would think this is a pretty common sense understanding, but I guess some people do not understand their bodies that well or have been convinced otherwise. Bloodwork is helpful at first until you have good biofeedback comprehension, or if experimenting with something new and potentially toxic, but for the most part the proof is in the results.

If you held your strength, you feel balanced, and your sex life is stable, you must have done it right! You know what you've got by the fruit it bears. If you lost your weight, lost your libido, and feel bad, then something went wrong and bloodwork might help to determine a solution. Pretty simple.
Click to expand...

For you own personal edification if you want to trust "feel" then that is your perogative - especially if you have had blood tests in the past to get a sense of what you are feeling. If you want to compare methods though and say one is better than the other, especially since you can't use both methods at one time, then one would expect to see some level of proof that one method is better than another.
 
London28 said:
So Tbol the next morning, Dbol pre/post work out?

saying that, we think Tbol's half life is too long to pulse? or if taken at say 7am is it 'likely' ot be ok? it has around an 8 hour half life doesn't it? so take 30mg 7am, 3pm you have about 15mg in yuor system, 11pm you have about 7.5mg in your system........7am you have just under 4mg in your system so would that supress you for that day? or that morning when your ment to have highest test levels? if so I guess thats no good?
Click to expand...

tbols halflife is around 16 hours...
 
so tablet form is??

and a bump for my original question :-)

do if pulsing Dbol 5 to 6 times per TWO weeks, could you do this for a long period or would you stick to say 8 weeks?
 
London28 said:
so tablet form is??

and a bump for my original question :-)

do if pulsing Dbol 5 to 6 times per TWO weeks, could you do this for a long period or would you stick to say 8 weeks?
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I don't know -- haven't found any data -- the peak plasma level after oral dosing is at 3 hours so I doubt that the terminal half-life orally is 16 hours.
 
London28 said:
so tablet form is??

and a bump for my original question :-)

do if pulsing Dbol 5 to 6 times per TWO weeks, could you do this for a long period or would you stick to say 8 weeks?
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8 weeks would be fine depending on dose. What kind of dose would you be using?
 
Dr. D, I have a question about a short superdrol pulse cycle. Sort of a pulse within a pulse. What if I took 40mg of superdrol EOD or M W F for 2 weeks.. then take two weeks off, then if all is well 2 weeks on again?
 
1/2 life chart

DR.D said:
Yes. It works well, better that it looks on paper. I pulsed a lot of short acting stuff back in the early days of phs (like 4AD, nordiol, andro, DHEA) and it worked better than anticipated. That's why I started taking a post-w/o dose too, because the half-lives were so short. You can use the same approach with the short acting methyls like you mentioned. For longer half-life methyls, you can take the whole dose pre-w/o, or at least the bigger portion pre-w/o for medium half-life methyls.
Click to expand...

perhaps it would be useful if you or another member could kindly provide some comprehensive categorization of these products by 1/2 life ...as has been done using other of their characteristics...wet/dry, dht/progestin...etc ...thanks
 
hman85 said:
8 weeks would be fine depending on dose. What kind of dose would you be using?
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I was thinking about going modestly at first, either (with Dbol) 10mg pre and 10mg post workout or 20mg pre and 10mg post...... Tbol, I think i'd use in a regular type cycle just 4 weeks on at a dose from 30mg to 60mg per day. I tried 14 on 14 off with Tbol but the second 14 on i didn't feel to great if I remember and then had other problems so stopped it..... so would just stay on for 4 weeks I think

I have read differing things with Tbol, some say it takes about 3 weeks to feel it work, allto of people say the gains seem to stop after about week 4!!!

Tbol is a fairly weak AAS so i was concidering goign in at 60mg per day, but then, the whole point and interest for me in puklsing is to get maximal results with minimal sides, so why not start low, then you can always add more....... there are so many a*s holes on Forums that say " whats the point of that small dose?" and "why not do it properly" but these people have just jumped into taking high dose AAS and have never tried smaller dosing.
 
I think its whatever your goals are. Taking more or less is really up to you, a guy has to take enough to get an effect though and that will differ according to weight and metabolism etc. Good luck and keep posting your progress.
 
EasyEJL said:
i think his views are that it is compound dependent :) a more anabolic compound is ok off days, a more androgenic compound is largely wasted if you dont doseit preworkout
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Yes, the androgen is pre-w/o and anabolic post-w/o. I have tried off-day dosing and many combinations of all possible variations. What I found was a significant and optimal benefit from same-day dosing, just exactly as I recommended. That's why I suggested you start from that platform and experiment from there, because individual alterations my prove favorable. I'm glad to see people trying different ways to test it out though. :)
 
sethroberts said:
For you own personal edification if you want to trust "feel" then that is your perogative - especially if you have had blood tests in the past to get a sense of what you are feeling. If you want to compare methods though and say one is better than the other, especially since you can't use both methods at one time, then one would expect to see some level of proof that one method is better than another.
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Indeed, Seth. This is true. It can also become quite an OCD thing if you let it, defying all common sense. There have been times in my life that I ran blood and urine tests daily, testing endocrine levels, creatinine values, electrolytes, etc.. and surely much of that data has contributed to my theories and views now. My point is that in the absence of availability of that testing, your gut instinct in such matters is correct 90% of the time anyway, even more if you know your body and can trust your own insights.
 
MuscleBound1337 said:
Dr. D, I have a question about a short superdrol pulse cycle. Sort of a pulse within a pulse. What if I took 40mg of superdrol EOD or M W F for 2 weeks.. then take two weeks off, then if all is well 2 weeks on again?
Click to expand...

Yes, this sounds good. The 3 days/week is optimal, but if they are not consecutive day, you still may risk a more rapid shutdown due to poor "bounce back" response. The solution is to use a very low androgen compound like SD, so that's perfect, and also taking 1-2 weeks off every 2-3 weeks in addition to that is even better at totally avoiding inevitable shutdown. Keep us posted!
 
qwestor said:
perhaps it would be useful if you or another member could kindly provide some comprehensive categorization of these products by 1/2 life ...as has been done using other of their characteristics...wet/dry, dht/progestin...etc ...thanks
Click to expand...

I think this has been characterized and consolidated into a thread by now.
 
link anyone ?

DR.D said:
I think this has been characterized and consolidated into a thread by now.
Click to expand...

I haven't come across it...

.....anyone have a link to a thread that provides a comprehensive listing that includes details of 1/2 life info specifically along with whatever characteristics may be outlined...haven't seen this aspect specifically in the stickies......thanks
 
DR.D said:
Yes, this sounds good. The 3 days/week is optimal, but if they are not consecutive day, you still may risk a more rapid shutdown due to poor "bounce back" response. The solution is to use a very low androgen compound like SD, so that's perfect, and also taking 1-2 weeks off every 2-3 weeks in addition to that is even better at totally avoiding inevitable shutdown. Keep us posted!
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Can you explain this more dr? Do you mean you want the days together or you don't?
 
Can you also pulse unmethylated compounds/prohormones like T-Roid, 1-Andro, 3-AD, Furazadrol,...?
When do you have to take them (before or after workout)?
How much gains can you expect from a pulse cycle?
For example you gain 10 pounds on a straight cycle, how much can you expect from a pulse cycle(average)?
 
hman85 said:
Can you explain this more dr? Do you mean you want the days together or you don't?
Click to expand...

When you lift 3 days in a row, you may start to sense a mild shutdown response by the 2nd or 3rd day. Then as you're off the next 4 days in a row, you'll sense a bounce-back of testicular function denoted by increase of testicular size and often enhanced libido, again by the 2nd or 3rd off day. The 3/4 split generally gives the most punctuated bounce effect.

When you lift MWF, you're less likely to sense a bounce, but theoretically you've already reduced the odds of shutdown because you're not dosing 3 days in a row. So in effect it's probably about the same. I have used both methods and these two are my favs for 3 day protocols. Sorry if my comment was misleading Hman!
 
mcgeier said:
Can you also pulse unmethylated compounds/prohormones like T-Roid, 1-Andro, 3-AD, Furazadrol,...?
When do you have to take them (before or after workout)?
How much gains can you expect from a pulse cycle?
For example you gain 10 pounds on a straight cycle, how much can you expect from a pulse cycle(average)?
Click to expand...

Stacking a methyl and non-methyl generally compound gains. For example...

Pre-w/o
100mg DHEA
50mg Furazadrol
20mg Epi

Post-w/o
50mg Furazadrol
10mg SD
1 cap Lean-FX (or your anti-cort of choice)
1-2 caps HD2 (or your AI based test booster of choice)

This is a pretty fool-proof protocol (3x/wk) that utilizes the very minimum amounts of several different compounds to achieve a result where the whole is greater than the sum of it's apparent parts, and sides are extremely minimal. ;)
 
Doctor D, if Using Dbol what dose do you feel is best used for starting? I am thinking 10mg pre and 10mg post or 20mg pre 10mg post?

Just finished experimenting with a little T3 ad clen. started at just hal a tab of T3 per day and 20mcg of Clen then 20mcg 2 x day then up to 40mcg, then upped the T3 to just oe full tab. My bodyweight stayed the same but I my body composition definately changed. I noticed and am always the first to notice any changes, then my g/f then others... I would say I look like was more difined and had gained some muscle but I think it was both, definately lost b/f.

I'll ow try a little pulse with Dbol.
 
Starting HAVOC Pulse 11/20/08- please review

Dr. D (and anyone else with good info).

I am looking at starting my cycle tomorow, 11/20/08
I will be doing a few days liver detox and cycle support to prep before the HAVOC gets introduced, but I have gleaned much info from here and elsewhere. I would appreciate any feedback on this program though.

Log: HAVOC PH Pulse Cycle

Dates: Starting 11/19/2008

Weight Training Program: Using MAX-OT training plan (5 days per week, 1 group per day)

Cardio/other: Doing 1-2 days long cardio: running. (I know this is not “max OT” approved, but I dont want to loose my progress running)

Other days HIIT 16 min per MAX-OT
3x per week Martial arts/MMA training ~45 min.
Other info: I have been training for 2 years using cardio and weights. I have increased strength and have reached a mild plateau. I have lost ~ 30 lbs and most was body fat. I have stalled on that department as well.

Supplementation:

Pre cycle: 4 days Anabolic Inovations cycle support 1 scoop
4 days NOW Liver detox 1 capsule/day 6 hours+ from cycle support
4 days DHEA 25/mg 2x/day (50mg/day ttl)

Regular sups: NOW Taurine 2g/day
(Everyday) Multi-Vitamins/Equate brand 1 per day
Purple Wraath (pre workout) ½ serving

Off Days: Vitex 1 serv/day 2 caps/500mg in am
Novadex daily on off days.
NOW liver detox daily
DHEA 25mg/day

Cycle: HAVOC 3 weeks on at a time, then 1 off.
Alternate 4 times a week and 3 times/wk.
2 days on, one off. Then 2 on, 2 off.
1 days on, two off, Then 2 on, 2 off.
Week 1: 10/20/30/30
Week 2: 30/30/30
Week 3: 30/40/40/30
Week 4: OFF
Week 5 20/30/30
Week 6 30/40/40/30
Week 7 40/30/20
Anabolic Innovations Cycle support Daily 1 scoop AM/ 1 PM

Post Cycle/off-week:
Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support Daily for 3 weeks.
Gespari Novadex XT daily for 3 weeks.
 
The split you devised isn't going to utilize the pulse as well. Try to do workout program that you workout m,w,f or m,t ,th,f and then go back to the other program. Thats what I would do.
 
hman85 said:
The split you devised isn't going to utilize the pulse as well. Try to do workout program that you workout m,w,f or m,t ,th,f and then go back to the other program. Thats what I would do.
Click to expand...

Ok. That sounds good. I should make sure my Havoc dose days are on workout days then? Would this mean modifying to 4days/wk for the dose to match workout days? I am all set elsewise I think, but changing up one workout day is not big deal, or changing a dose day if able. This is just the final tweak I guess.
also, if I modify lift days I will likely do some cardio on the other gym days.

thoughts?
 
jeffh3c said:
Ok. That sounds good. I should make sure my Havoc dose days are on workout days then? Would this mean modifying to 4days/wk for the dose to match workout days? I am all set elsewise I think, but changing up one workout day is not big deal, or changing a dose day if able. This is just the final tweak I guess.
also, if I modify lift days I will likely do some cardio on the other gym days.

thoughts?
Click to expand...
Yeah just make sure if you do 4 days a week that they are m,t,th,f so you have 2 consecutive days off at least. It would be better and less suppressive if you could run it m,w,f. I have ran superdrol 4 days a week and it worked out pretty well.
 
hman85 said:
Yeah just make sure if you do 4 days a week that they are m,t,th,f so you have 2 consecutive days off at least. It would be better and less suppressive if you could run it m,w,f. I have ran superdrol 4 days a week and it worked out pretty well.
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Originally I planned on 4 days one week and 3 the next. I am going fairly light I think on doses, and I am using cycle and PCT even though it doesnt supposedly "need" them. So would 4 days be okay do you think?? It just seems that 3 day per week workouts take too long over the 45 min mark and cortisol/overtrain can result. I would rather push myself high intensity/heavy for 45 min or so 4 days a week ==but== only if I can do it safely. Based on what I have read, I think that 4 days a week and 3 weeks, a week off, and 3 more will be fairly low rish of issues, especially with support. I wil note tha I dont have access to SERM except the OTC stuff I have obtained, so I want to play it on the safe side. I dont want to have to go see my wife's gynacologist!!
 
jeffh3c said:
Originally I planned on 4 days one week and 3 the next. I am going fairly light I think on doses, and I am using cycle and PCT even though it doesnt supposedly "need" them. So would 4 days be okay do you think?? It just seems that 3 day per week workouts take too long over the 45 min mark and cortisol/overtrain can result. I would rather push myself high intensity/heavy for 45 min or so 4 days a week ==but== only if I can do it safely. Based on what I have read, I think that 4 days a week and 3 weeks, a week off, and 3 more will be fairly low rish of issues, especially with support. I wil note tha I dont have access to SERM except the OTC stuff I have obtained, so I want to play it on the safe side. I dont want to have to go see my wife's gynacologist!!
Click to expand...
It is always good to have a serm on hand and yes you can get them! but you should suffice with otc. I would recommend having a serm on hand!
 
hman85 said:
It is always good to have a serm on hand and yes you can get them! but you should suffice with otc. I would recommend having a serm on hand!
Click to expand...
I dont want to do anything questionable. I will do the best I can and go to DR if definately needed. I think I should be okay with the support supps I have and PCT. If not, I guess I will suck it up and go to Doc. I want to do everything on the up and up.
 
hman85 said:
Yeah just make sure if you do 4 days a week that they are m,t,th,f so you have 2 consecutive days off at least. It would be better and less suppressive if you could run it m,w,f. I have ran superdrol 4 days a week and it worked out pretty well.
Click to expand...
Revised cycle:

Log: HAVOC PH Pulse Cycle

Dates: Starting 11/19/2008

Weight Training Program: Using MAX-OT training plan (5 days per week, 1 group per day)
**revised, will work out 4 days/wk**
**1/2 Havoc dose on lightest w/o day**


Cardio/other: Doing 1-2 days long cardio: running. (I know this is not “max OT” approved, but I dont want to loose my progress running)

Other days HIIT 16 min per MAX-OT
3x per week Martial arts/MMA training ~45 min.
Other info: I have been training for 2 years using cardio and weights. I have increased strength and have reached a mild plateau. I have lost ~ 30 lbs and most was body fat. I have stalled on that department as well.

Supplementation:

Pre cycle: 4 days Anabolic Inovations cycle support 1 scoop
4 days NOW Liver detox 1 capsule/day 6 hours+ from cycle support
4 days DHEA 25/mg 2x/day (50mg/day ttl)

Regular sups: NOW Taurine 2g/day
(Everyday) Multi-Vitamins/Equate brand 1 per day
Purple Wraath (pre workout) ½ serving

Off Days: Vitex 1 serv/day 2 caps/500mg in am
Novadex daily on off days.
NOW liver detox daily
DHEA 25mg/day
NOW Relora

Cycle: HAVOC 3 weeks on at a time, then 1 off.
Alternate 4 times a week and 3 times/wk.
2 days on, one off. Then 2 on, 2 off.
**final dose for wk is ~ ½ dose on light day.

Week 1: 10/20/30/20
Week 2: 30/30/30/20
Week 3: 30/40/40/20
Week 4: OFF/PCT
Week 5: OFF/PCT
Week 6 20/30/30
Week 7 30/40/40/30
Week 8 40/30/20
DONE!
Start full PCT

Anabolic Innovations Cycle support Daily 1 scoop AM/ 1 PM

Post Cycle/off-week:
Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support Daily for 3 weeks.
Gespari Novadex XT daily for 3 weeks.
DHEA 50mg/day
 
You really don't need to do the break inbetween but if you want to be on the safe side it will help alot. Also don't lower the dose after you have gone higher that isn't really going to help anything except less gains. If it was me I would go something like this
Wk 1 20mg
wk 2 30mg
wk 3 30
wk 4 40
wk 5 40
wk 6 40(0r 50 depending on feel)
then pct
 
Final draft

hman85 said:
You really don't need to do the break inbetween but if you want to be on the safe side it will help alot. Also don't lower the dose after you have gone higher that isn't really going to help anything except less gains. If it was me I would go something like this
Wk 1 20mg
wk 2 30mg
wk 3 30
wk 4 40
wk 5 40
wk 6 40(0r 50 depending on feel)
then pct
Click to expand...
Going to play it safe and use the 2 weeks. I want some gains, but I am not hard up enough that I cant wait 2 weeks longer than I would have. I have modified doseages. If I feel okay after 1 week, I may start back; but I will make myself do min 1 week. I plan on running a log. I need to look to see the appropriate spot... (here?)

Reps and thanks for all the help and advice!

Oh, last question. Can I add a few extra sets in or extend beyond my normal 45 min since I have some "help"?

---------------------------
sLog: HAVOC PH Pulse Cycle

Dates: Starting 11/19/2008

Weight Training Program: Using MAX-OT training plan **(4 days per week)**

Cardio/other: Doing 1-2 days long cardio: running. (I know this is not “max OT” approved, but I dont want to loose my progress running)

Other days HIIT 16 min per MAX-OT
3x per week Martial arts/MMA training ~45 min.
Other info: I have been training for 2 years using cardio and weights. I have increased strength and have reached a mild plateau. I have lost ~ 30 lbs and most was body fat. I have stalled on that department as well.

Supplementation:

Pre cycle: 4 days Anabolic Inovations cycle support 1 scoop
4 days NOW Liver detox 1 capsule/day 6 hours+ from cycle support
4 days DHEA 25/mg 2x/day (50mg/day ttl)

Regular sups: NOW Taurine 2g/day
(Everyday) Multi-Vitamins/Equate brand 1 per day
Purple Wraath (pre workout) ½ serving

Off Days: Vitex 1 serv/day 2 caps/500mg in am
Novadex daily on off days.
NOW liver detox daily
DHEA 25mg/day
NOW Relora

Cycle: HAVOC 3 weeks on at a time, then 1 off.
Alternate 4 times a week and 3 times/wk.
2 days on, one off. Then 2 on, 2 off.
**final dose for wk is ~ ½ dose on light day.

Week 1: 10/20/20/20
Week 2: 20/30/30/30
Week 3: 30/40/40/40
Week 4: OFF/PCT
Week 6 20/30/30/30
Week 7 30/40/40/40
Week 8 40/40/40
DONE!
**(will have a few left over to help fight gyno if it starts to set in plus my OTC arsenal Novadex XT / Vitex / B6 / PCT

Start full PCT

Anabolic Innovations Cycle support Daily 1 scoop AM/ 1 PM

Post Cycle/off-week:
Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support Daily for 3 weeks.
Gespari Novadex XT daily for 3 weeks.
DHEA 50mg/day
 
AS INSTRUCTIONS SEEM TO IMPLY. An herbal test booster, a NON-AI, would be sufficient for off days? like trib type product (blue up) etc. Or would an AI need be added?
 
T H E O R E M said:
AS INSTRUCTIONS SEEM TO IMPLY. An herbal test booster, a NON-AI, would be sufficient for off days? like trib type product (blue up) etc. Or would an AI need be added?
Click to expand...

It's controversial because havoc is already an anti-estrogen compound. AI would best be used in PCT rather than during the cycle.
 
jeffh3c said:
I dont want to do anything questionable. I will do the best I can and go to DR if definately needed. I think I should be okay with the support supps I have and PCT. If not, I guess I will suck it up and go to Doc. I want to do everything on the up and up.
Click to expand...

You should look into iForce Reversitol. It's an AI and it's also the closest thing to a SERM that you can get over the counter all in one. No it is not a SERM, but you should use it if you don't plan on getting a real one. I would never use research chemicals, which is what most people use for a SERM. They are not intended for human consumption, they are produced at low quality standards, they contain many impurities and may be hazardous to your health. Not to mention they may not even be the intended chemical. Some people may know of a reputable site for getting good quality SERMS, but I'm not about to play marco polo with my health to find out.
 
London28 said:
... what dose do you feel is best used for starting? I am thinking 10mg pre and 10mg post or 20mg pre 10mg post? ...
Click to expand...

That looks like a legitimate starting point. In general, start low and work up. You can always take more if needed. The minimal amount that still generates a statistically significant effect should be utilized. You'll get the feel for it pretty quickly after you start.
 
Delita420 said:
It's controversial because havoc is already an anti-estrogen compound. AI would best be used in PCT rather than during the cycle.
Click to expand...

Agreed. An AI based supp is not always necessary. If in doubt, a good herbal test booster shouldn't hurt though.

However, if you know what your doing, an AI can still be helpful in many situations:
1) the use of non-aromatizing compounds that leave test levels virtually intact
2) supps that do elevate estro or have intrinsic estro activity
3) mild progestins like all methylated orals, etc..

For example, low dose ATD is still a good stack with Havoc even though it's already an anti-e, while 6-Oxo is not such a good stack with Havoc.
 
DR.D said:
That looks like a legitimate starting point. In general, start low and work up. You can always take more if needed. The minimal amount that still generates a statistically significant effect should be utilized. You'll get the feel for it pretty quickly after you start.
Click to expand...

hey Dr D

I am sure you commented on this before, but for my own peace of mind, If I am to train 7pmish, what would be your suggestion for my Dbol pulse pre& post workout? or earlier in the day?
 
DR.D said:
For example, low dose ATD is still a good stack with Havoc even though it's already an anti-e, while 6-Oxo is not such a good stack with Havoc.
Click to expand...

Why is it a good stack?

would it work as well with superdrol(i think sd and havoc are both progestin based right?)

and lastly, i was debating adding a low dose pulse of DS's rebound XT to go with SD(20mg /day) and primordial's dermacrine topical for 2 to 3 weeks.
is that wise? considering likely estrogen increases from dermacrine and probable test decrease from SD
im just not sure that 2 or 3 weeks justifies the AI?

thanks D!
 
DR.D said:
When you lift 3 days in a row, you may start to sense a mild shutdown response by the 2nd or 3rd day. Then as you're off the next 4 days in a row, you'll sense a bounce-back of testicular function denoted by increase of testicular size and often enhanced libido, again by the 2nd or 3rd off day. The 3/4 split generally gives the most punctuated bounce effect.

When you lift MWF, you're less likely to sense a bounce, but theoretically you've already reduced the odds of shutdown because you're not dosing 3 days in a row. So in effect it's probably about the same. I have used both methods and these two are my favs for 3 day protocols. Sorry if my comment was misleading Hman!
Click to expand...

Dr. D
If I do this and I dose MTW what dose would you suggest I start and end at? I'm 190 6'1 Never used superdrol before,ran havoc, MTRN, hdrol, PP cycles tho.

Also, On the 4 off days would you suggest taking anything.. maybe a little clomid?
 
Dr D,

If you would take a look at my revised cycle above. I started 4 days pre cycle therapy today and will start introducing HAVOC on Sunday with my workout. I appreciate the feedback. I have done my homework, so I think all should be okay, except that maybe I should look at reversatrol vs Vitrex and Novedex XT for the true Post cycle therapy. Would these (Novedex XT and Vitrex ) still be good for off days though? I guess I need to order the Reversatrol SOON! I took it easy on my pulse due to not having SERM onhand, so hopefully all goes well. Also, earlier in this thread you said something about logging cycle would be appreciated - do you want that in this thread??
 
MuscleBound1337 said:
Dr. D
If I do this and I dose MTW what dose would you suggest I start and end at? I'm 190 6'1 Never used superdrol before,ran havoc, MTRN, hdrol, PP cycles tho.

Also, On the 4 off days would you suggest taking anything.. maybe a little clomid?
Click to expand...
Start at 20mgs, use it accordingly. Bump it up when you feel the gains slow or halt.Remember though less is always better in this game!
 
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