alrighty where to start with this one lol its kinda long and i had a rough day, but my work out was good.
OK
bolded statement wasnt intended to be read how you read it,
i meant for something like halodrol where most people will argue a serm isnt neccesary, or an epi product....
Try an OTC PLANNED PCT with the right ingredients that WILL get you back to normal, have before and after blood work.
BUT where were you really at the end of the cycle, pre PCT? your trying to prove the efficacy of a PCT regimin not total cycle recovery and you need to know exactly how far suppressed youve become from normal levels and how well youve since recovered hopefully up to or above that of what was first established.
if your please with it, it shows that it works well and would likely work for a more suppressive cycle.
NO, all youve done is proved that it will work for THAT cycle you just ran! an admittably easy to recover from cycle(with a SERM that is) to begin with! I could get good normal range test results just by doing nothing after 4 weeks! or all Id need is a simple test booster or AI to make that test come back ok for a weak cycle. But whats happened to my body in the mean time? namely the start?
Either way not EVERYONE can take YOUR pct and get the same results... like I said without knowing how supressed you became throughout the duration of the cycle whos to say you wouldnt show normal range test results at the end??? normal range is also subective AS its typically 280-800ng/dl and I for one dont want to start with 800 end with 400 and call it a success cause its normal for joe schmo 50 year old.
ok 2nd bolded.... yea your right, but have mentionewd in previous post that they do increase your test levels LH FSH. which is another reason why people conform to SERMs....
this is where the post should have started and ended.
you wanna bind to receptor? the way a serm will , fine, Genistein will do just that, Want to bind to the aromatase enzyme and keep estro levels basically unaffected, use 6 oxo. but most of the aromatase is found in the breast. so by blocking aromatase and increasing test levels, you have a SERM like compound. in which it increases Test, LH and FSH, keeps Estro levels unnaffected. and its strong as well.
funny thing is none of this you mentioned holds merit other then in theory. Its not SERM like in the least, its a multitude of other actions that dont still have as efficient an effect as a single reseached SERM. All research on SERMs have multitudes of published studies backing them and have stood the test of time.
Sure some of these compounds have SERM
like actions, they are mostly phyto estrogens and will undoubtedly bind to the estrogen receptor. But what are they doing while they are there? do they neutralize the actions of the ER or are they activating it? will they do more harm then good? are they even that active when taken orally? can they make it through first pass?
I dont know why you continue to bring 6-OXO into the picture? its actions are in no way similar to that of a serm and no one disputes the efficiancy of a steroidal (suicidal) aromatase inhibitor, in fact I think that in conjunction with a SERM these make for quite a pleasent and comprehensive PCT.... stand alone though.... what good is an AI really going to do for you at jumpstarting HTPA? if your truely shutdown then youll have such a small amount of test to begin with you wont have to worry bout it aromatizing and yes it will leave current levels of est UNEFFECTED.
So what have you done? youve dropped all androgen use and now have a large amount of estrogen floating around. this ratio of T:E is extremely harsh on ones body since it was just used to having an abnormally larger amount of androgens around and NOW you got nothing but estrogen... sure your not making more estrogen (via aromatase) but basically all you got is that! your body will definately take a feminine turn for the worse at this point (how far is up to your individual body and diff each cycle among other outside factors like cortisol and prolactin levels) and what you need is something that will unequivocally block that estrogen from exerting any effect @ the receptor itself (as Estrogen is already there and an AI wont help you now) and your body is then in shock.... its like "oh crap no test!! no est!!! and BOOM your body gets movin overtime trying to produce test (some like clomind work via other stimulation some through multiple pathways), at the same time aromatase (why AI's help IN CONJUNCTION TO A SERM) so it can in turn create estrogen.
Now other wonderful things like nettle root and Saw Palmetto Extract (and similar herbs) will continue to help preserve your test in its most precious form via blocking SHBG and 5a reductase. but will only work once test is present to optimize test levels NOT restart production.
did any one read those PDFs?
yes and thos silly PDF's did nothing ot convince me that you know what your talking bout here cause you can list a bunch of compounds with AI activity (which was likely DL'ed or copied from elsewhere) and then attach it to a post.
Once again if you can have an almost non suppresive cycle to begin with that wont leave you with outta wack T:E levels and/or hasnt already began to exert an estrogenic effect via other means (ie anadrol and superdrol) then yes a completely OTC pct can be succesfully run. But for any of these new guys to read your posts and think it will work is foolish. not everyone can afford to run blood and even if they could do they know what it even means? Honestly the only way one can be assured recovery and ommitance of estrogenic suicide is to use a SERM for even the "mildly suppresive" compounds you like to stack and run for 8 weeks.
Ill leave you with this
poopypants said:
I by no means want to practice such unsafe experiments with my own body. I KNOW A SERM WILL GET THE JOB DONE EVERY CYCLE, I also add TONS of OTC supps to compliment that SERM. If I worked hard to get those gains then my goodness Im going to do everything it takes to keep em and keep em lookin manly
