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Tribulus and Long Jack

SupremeSE said:
Zombie, can you LOG a bottle as well? :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

i would love too, but im currently on my non-sponsored DTH stack second week and being having alot of girl problems(well this is over since yesterday i finally got over it).

and i also suck at logging.(i know easyejl is going to make a coment about this last thing :rasp:)

but vicodene in other hand . . .
 
Zombie said:
i would love too, but im currently on my non-sponsored DTH stack second week and being having alot of girl problems(well this is over since yesterday i finally got over it).

and i also suck at logging.(i know easyejl is going to make a coment about this last thing :rasp:)

but vicodene in other hand . . .
Click to expand...

GREAT, Vicodene it is!

PM me your shipping info! :)
 
SupremeSE said:
It's been my PLEASURE. Please refer to the sig:duel:

I enjoyed the intelligent discourse my friend! :)
Click to expand...

I don't understand how you can think you are right. You displayed nothing more than cutting and pasting irrelevant documents. Chuck actually typed his response proving his knowledge and all you can do is copy and past. Do you realize he uses LJ100 in his products? If it did what your saying, trust me, he wouldn't be arguing since he uses it!!! Your making yourself you bad and very dishonest. I wish you the best, but your creating waves that are unnecessary. I'm supposed to be getting a bottle to test, so I will hold my judgement til then.
 
NateWA said:
Supreme SE, you know what, I am unbiased as hell. Send me a bottle, I'll do a review and post the results. there's only one way to settle this and that is to look at the results.
Click to expand...

Well I never said the product might not produce any results at all, it has tribulus, long jack and creatine.....my problem is the write up is full of the wrong information on how tribulus, Long Jack and Vitex works.....it also wont increase penis size or increase test 500%. Which is why he wont address these statements, just keep cut and pasting studies. Now that someone called and they they said LJ100 doesnt bind to SHBG it may reduce it like I said, there is just going to be more cut and paste......


Mr. Mugatu:

The guy from zoolander who said "am I taking crazy pills."

Invalid Link Removed

thats how I feel when I read this guy's replies and that write up. But hey I will send you my po box for the product, Ill give it to my brother to try.
 
(Designer Supps post above was DELETED, but in response to those studies)

EXACTLY!!

**TRIBULUS PLANT DOES NOTHING!***

PROTODIOSCIN, which is EXTRACTED from the Triblus plant, INCREASES LH/TESTOSTERONE.

ONLY a STANDARDIZED EXTRACT containing 10% Protodioscin or MORE will increase T. AndroGenerator contains 20% Protodioscin.

TRIBESTAN EFFECT ON THE CONCENTRATION OF SOME HORMONES IN THE SERUM OF HEALTHY SUBJECTS
S. Milanov, A. Maleeva, M. Taskov

RIRR - Radioisotope and Radioimmunological Laboratory, Sofia

Chemical Pharmaceutical Research Institute,
Sofia, Bulgaria

SUMMARY

Tribestan effect has been studied on the serum concentration of hypophyseal hormones, of ACTH, STH, LH, FSH, adrenal hormone aldosterone and cortisol and sex hormones - testosterone and estradiol. The experiments have been carried out on 8 males and 8 females, aged 28 - 45 years of age. The product was perorally administered in a single dose of 250 mg, three times daily for 5 days. Serum samples were withdrawn at 8 a.m. and 12 a.m., prior to and post treatment. The product has been established not to change essentially the concentrations of adrenal hormones and of ACTH. The hypophyseal-gonadal axis however has significantly been affected in the females with predominantly increased concentration of FSH and estradiol and in the males - mainly of LH and the testosterone. The mechanism of that action is presumed to be complicated and realized both by direct effect on gonadal apparatus and by the tropic hormones.
The probable established changes in the concentration of the hormones studied do not get out of the frames of the physiological limits.

The lyophilized extract of Tribulus terrestris, introduced in veterinary practice as TB-68, has pronounced sex-stimulating function. The initial studies of this product showed that it stimulates the spermatogenesis of albino rats (Vankov S., et al., 1973) and enhanced the ovulation of female rats (Vankov S. et al. 1973). Zarkova S. (1976) has also established in rats an increased number of spermatogonia, spermatocytes as well as increase of neutral mucopolysaccharides in seminiferous tubules of the testes. Gendzhev Z. and S. Zarkova, in other experiments (1978) proved the increase of spermatic reserve in the epididymis of rats.

With the view to the need of human medicine of a product stimulating sexual function, Tribestan was formulated on the base of the indicated phytochemical product. It contains saponins of furostanol type (Tomova M. et al., 1978). The first studies of Tribestan confirmed its high sex-stimulating activity in experimental animals (Zarkova S., 1981). Later, the clinical studies established a similar stimulating effect in humans as well (Protich M. at al. 1981). The present study was carried out with a view to throwing light on some aspects of the mechanism of that action of Tribestan, aiming at attaining an effect from the product on the serum concentration of some hypophyseal, sexual and adrenal hormones.

MATERIALS AND METHODS

The experiments were performed on 16 subjects (8 females and 8 males), aged 28-45. All subjects were in good health, without any complaints and good capacity for work. The following schedule was used:
1. The basic levels of hypophysiotropic hormones (ACTH, STH, LH, FSH), of sexual hormones (testosterone and estradiol) and of adrenal hormones (aldosterone and cortisol) were determined. They were determined twice, at 8 a.m. and 12 p.m. - one day prior to Tribestan treatment.
2. The treatment with the product was initiated on the following day, which was periodically administered, 250 mg, three times daily for 5 days.
3. After the termination of Tribestan treatment (day sixth after the initiation of the experiment), blood was again withdrawn (at the same hour - 8:00 a.m. and 12 p.m.) for the determination of the concentration of the indicated hormones.

The work proceeded in the following way: after centrifugation of 6 - 8 ml blood, the serum obtained was frozen at 20°C till the day of the determination of hormonal concentration. The determination was performed by radioimmune tests. LH and FSH were determined by the modified method of Midgley A.R., (1967), making use of some kits of Biodata company, Italy and ACTH and STH - according to the method of Berson S.A. and R. S. Yalow (1963). Testosterone was evaluated by the method of William R. H. (1968), and of estradiol by Orezyk G.P. et al. (1974), making use of kits of Sorin Company, Belgium for both hormones. The adrenal hormones cortisol and aldosterone were also determined by kits of that company, making use of Vescei P. (1974) and of William G and R. Hunderwood (1974).

The obtained results were statistically processed by variation analysis, by Student - t test.

RESULTS AND DISCUSSION

As could be seen from Table 1, LH level in the males was elevated with a high significance after the treatment (p < 0.001). The changes affected both samples to the same rate (at 8 a.m. and 12 p.m.). FSH concentration was not affected under the same conditions. The other two hypophyseal hormones, ACTH and STH were not changed.

An insignificant tendency to elevation was observed in STH level (mean values - 2.9 prior to and 3.2 mg/ml post treatment) in some of the cases. The level of sex hormones was strongly affected. Thus testosterone concentration was three-fold (2) increased and that of estradiol - about 1.5 times (Table 1).

Table 1
Hormone Prior to Tribestan
Post Tribestan

8 a.m.
12 p.m.
8 a.m.
12 p.m.

LH, mIU/ml X 13.0 14.38(1) 37.25 24.75
SX 0.64 0.73 1.01 0.79
Pt 0.001 0.001
FSH, mIU/ml X 13.38 13.50 13.38 11.38
SX 0.35 0.28 0.35 0.36
Pt >0.5 >0.5
Testosterone, ng % X 628 610 882 845
SX 48 46 35 32
Pt <0.001 <0.001
Estradiol pg/ml X 79 76 133 137.5
SX 3.46 2.24 6.72 5.86
Pt <0.001 <0.001

LH concentration was also increased in females under Tribestan effect. What impressed was that the significance was lower than the first sample. The greatest discrepancy, as compared with the results of the males, was the sharp stimulation of FSH. A strong effect was observed there, which could be explained by blood withdrawal during the early phase of the menstrual cycle, the so-called follicular phase. Estradiol was also strongly affected (Pt < 0.001), whereas testosterone in the females during the early hours of the day was less affected (Table 2).

Table 2
Hormone
Prior to Tribestan
Post Tribestan

8 a.m.
12 p.m.
8 a.m.
12 p.m.

LH, mIU/ml X 15.25 13.50 17.13 16.88
SX 0.64 0.87 0.73 0.35
Pt 0.02 0.001
FSH, mIU/ml X 11.00 11.88 17.75 15.25
SX 0.13 0.09 0.71 0.38
Pt 0.001 0.001
Estradiol mIU/ml X 72.13 59.38 77.13 87.50
SX 6.02 5.73 5.47 3.24
Pt 0.5 0.001

The level of adrenal hormone was identically affected both in males and females (Table 3). A significant increase of the concentration was also established though that effect had a relatively low significance (p < 0.05). At the same time, cortisol level was no changed (Table 3).

Table 3
Aldosterone Cortisol
Prior to Post Prior to Post
X 11.59 13.77 8.63 8.63
S 2.52 3.48 2.20 1.92
SX 0.63 0.87 0.55 0.48
Pt 0.05 0.05

The results obtained provided grounds to admit that Tribestan had a pronounced stimulating effect on the secretion of some hormones. The effect on the hormones along the hypophyseal-gonadal axis was particularly well manifested. The effect was manifested both at hypophyseal and gonadal level. Some sexual discrepancies were also established. Thus, FSH was mainly affected in the females. The presence of that hormone is exceptionally important during the follicular phase for the development of the follicle. When its development is stimulated, its secretory ability is also intensified and hence - estradiol level is elevated. Lutenizing hormone is more strongly influenced in the male, which on its part stimulates the secretion of testosterone.

ACTH and cortisol were not changed suggesting that they were not significantly involved in the realization of Tribestan effects. The tendency of stimulation of STH and aldosterone explained the activation of the anabolic processes in the body and general stimulating action of the product. The absence of effect on the level of cortisol showed however that the general tonic action was very strongly manifested.

It should be stressed that the level of the hormones studied did not go out beyond the physiological frames i.e. it did not disturb the physiological mechanisms of hormonal regulation.

References

Vankov S., S. Zarkova, Z. Gendzhev, M. Tomova - Effect of TB-68 on the spermatogenesis in albino rats. Proceeding of the Third National Conference of Pharmacology and Clinics of New Bulgarian Drugs, Sofia, November 14-16, 1973, v.2, 161-163.
Vankov S., S. Zarkova, M. Tomova - TB-68 effect on ovulation of albino rats. Proceedings of Third National Conference of Pharmacology and Clinics of New Bulgarian Drugs, Sofia, November 14-16, 1973, v.2, 165-167.
Gendzhev Z., S. Zarkova - Effect of the phyto-pharmaceutical TB-68 on the number of spermatozoa in epididymis of rat. Med. Archive, 1978, N I, 113-118.
Dimova P., M. Taskov - Comparative enzyme-histological studies of some phyto-products. MBI (at the printer's), 1981.
Zarkova S. - Morphological and histological changes in testes of rat under the effect of TB-68, Med. Archive, 1976, N 4, 49-53.
Protich M., D. Zvetanov, V. Nalbanski, R.Stanislavov, M.Kazarova - Clinical trial of Tribestan on infertile males, MBI (at the printer's).
Tomova M., V. Gyulemetova, S. Zarkova - Author's certificate N 77584 A 61 K 35/1978.
Berson S.A., R. S. Yalow - Immunoassay of protein hormones, The Hormones, Vol. V, Acad. Press., New York, 1963.
Midgley A.R. - Radioimmunoassay for Human, J. Clin. Endocr., 1967, 27, 295.
Orezyk, Gaylo P., Burton v. Caldwell, Harold H. Behrmaan - Methods of Hormone Radioimmunoassay - Ed. B. Jaffe, H. Berhmaan, A6. Press, NJ, London, 1974, 333-343.
Vescei P. - Glicocorticoids: Cortisol Corticosterone - Methods of Hormone Radioimmunoassay; Ed. B. Jaffe and H. Behrmaan, Ac. Press, NJ, London 393-412.
William R.H. - Textbook of Endocrinology 4th Edit. Saunder, Philadelphia, 1968.
Williams Gordon H., Richard H. Hunderwood - Methods of Hormon Radioimmunoassay; Ed. B. Jaffe and H. Behrmaan, Ac. Press, NJ, London, 1974, 371-390.



Aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus Terrestris extract (Protodioscin) in normal and castrated rats.Gauthaman K, Adaikan PG, Prasad RN.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, National University Hospital, National University of Singapore, Singapore 119704, Singapore.

Tribulus terrestris (TT) has long been used in the traditional Chinese and Indian systems of medicine for the treatment of various ailments and is popularly claimed to improve sexual functions in man. Sexual behaviour and intracavernous pressure (ICP) were studied in both normal and castrated rats to further understand the role of TT containing protodioscin (PTN) as an aphrodisiac. Adult Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into five groups of 8 each that included distilled water treated (normal and castrated), testosterone treated (normal and castrated, 10 mg/kg body weight, subcutaneously, bi-weekly) and TT treated (castrated, 5 mg/kg body weight, orally once daily). Decreases in body weight, prostate weight and ICP were observed among the castrated groups of rats compared to the intact group. There was an overall reduction in the sexual behaviour parameters in the castrated groups of rats as reflected by decrease in mount and intromission frequencies (MF and IF) and increase in mount, intromission, ejaculation latencies (ML, IL, EL) as well as post-ejaculatory interval (PEI). Compared to the castrated control, treatment of castrated rats (with either testosterone or TT extract) showed increase in prostate weight and ICP that were statistically significant. There was also a mild to moderate improvement of the sexual behaviour parameters as evidenced by increase in MF and IF; decrease in ML, IL and PEI. These results were statistically significant. It is concluded that TT extract appears to possess aphrodisiac activity probably due to androgen increasing property of TT (observed in our earlier study on primates).

The hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris and its role in the management of male erectile dysfunction - an evaluation using primates, rabbit and rat.

Gauthaman K, Ganesan AP.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore, 5 Lower Kent Ridge Road, 119074 Singapore.

Hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30mg/kg, in primates for acute study. Rabbits and normal rats were treated with 2.5, 5 and 10mg/kg of TT extract orally for 8 weeks, for chronic study. In addition, castrated rats were treated either with testosterone cypionate (10mg/kg, subcutaneously; biweekly for 8 weeks) or TT orally (5mg/kg daily for 8 weeks). Blood samples were analyzed for testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS) levels using radioimmunoassay. In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5mg/kg were statistically significant. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51% and 25% were observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant. TT increases some of the sex hormones, possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the extract. TT may be useful in mild to moderate cases of ED.
 
Not trying to be a d!ck, but isn't that the 50th time you posted that? Just curious...

I wonder why DS deleted his post?

Anyway - hopefully all this will calm down in the next few weeks. I'll be watching some logs of people that I know don't just blow smoke because they got free supplements and fear burning a bridge. But seriously, all these long copy and paste post are becoming too much.

I wish you the best.
 
SupremeSE said:
(Designer Supps post above was DELETED, but in response to those studies)

EXACTLY!!

**TRIBULUS PLANT DOES NOTHING!***

PROTODIOSCIN, which is EXTRACTED from the Triblus plant, INCREASES LH/TESTOSTERONE.

ONLY a STANDARDIZED EXTRACT containing 10% Protodioscin or MORE will increase T. AndroGenerator contains 20% Protodioscin.

TRIBESTAN EFFECT ON THE CONCENTRATION OF SOME HORMONES IN THE SERUM OF HEALTHY SUBJECTS
S. Milanov, A. Maleeva, M. Taskov

RIRR - Radioisotope and Radioimmunological Laboratory, Sofia

Chemical Pharmaceutical Research Institute,
Sofia, Bulgaria

SUMMARY

Tribestan effect has been studied on the serum concentration of hypophyseal hormones, of ACTH, STH, LH, FSH, adrenal hormone aldosterone and cortisol and sex hormones - testosterone and estradiol. The experiments have been carried out on 8 males and 8 females, aged 28 - 45 years of age. The product was perorally administered in a single dose of 250 mg, three times daily for 5 days. Serum samples were withdrawn at 8 a.m. and 12 a.m., prior to and post treatment. The product has been established not to change essentially the concentrations of adrenal hormones and of ACTH. The hypophyseal-gonadal axis however has significantly been affected in the females with predominantly increased concentration of FSH and estradiol and in the males - mainly of LH and the testosterone. The mechanism of that action is presumed to be complicated and realized both by direct effect on gonadal apparatus and by the tropic hormones.
The probable established changes in the concentration of the hormones studied do not get out of the frames of the physiological limits.

The lyophilized extract of Tribulus terrestris, introduced in veterinary practice as TB-68, has pronounced sex-stimulating function. The initial studies of this product showed that it stimulates the spermatogenesis of albino rats (Vankov S., et al., 1973) and enhanced the ovulation of female rats (Vankov S. et al. 1973). Zarkova S. (1976) has also established in rats an increased number of spermatogonia, spermatocytes as well as increase of neutral mucopolysaccharides in seminiferous tubules of the testes. Gendzhev Z. and S. Zarkova, in other experiments (1978) proved the increase of spermatic reserve in the epididymis of rats.

With the view to the need of human medicine of a product stimulating sexual function, Tribestan was formulated on the base of the indicated phytochemical product. It contains saponins of furostanol type (Tomova M. et al., 1978). The first studies of Tribestan confirmed its high sex-stimulating activity in experimental animals (Zarkova S., 1981). Later, the clinical studies established a similar stimulating effect in humans as well (Protich M. at al. 1981). The present study was carried out with a view to throwing light on some aspects of the mechanism of that action of Tribestan, aiming at attaining an effect from the product on the serum concentration of some hypophyseal, sexual and adrenal hormones.

MATERIALS AND METHODS

The experiments were performed on 16 subjects (8 females and 8 males), aged 28-45. All subjects were in good health, without any complaints and good capacity for work. The following schedule was used:
1. The basic levels of hypophysiotropic hormones (ACTH, STH, LH, FSH), of sexual hormones (testosterone and estradiol) and of adrenal hormones (aldosterone and cortisol) were determined. They were determined twice, at 8 a.m. and 12 p.m. - one day prior to Tribestan treatment.
2. The treatment with the product was initiated on the following day, which was periodically administered, 250 mg, three times daily for 5 days.
3. After the termination of Tribestan treatment (day sixth after the initiation of the experiment), blood was again withdrawn (at the same hour - 8:00 a.m. and 12 p.m.) for the determination of the concentration of the indicated hormones.

The work proceeded in the following way: after centrifugation of 6 - 8 ml blood, the serum obtained was frozen at 20°C till the day of the determination of hormonal concentration. The determination was performed by radioimmune tests. LH and FSH were determined by the modified method of Midgley A.R., (1967), making use of some kits of Biodata company, Italy and ACTH and STH - according to the method of Berson S.A. and R. S. Yalow (1963). Testosterone was evaluated by the method of William R. H. (1968), and of estradiol by Orezyk G.P. et al. (1974), making use of kits of Sorin Company, Belgium for both hormones. The adrenal hormones cortisol and aldosterone were also determined by kits of that company, making use of Vescei P. (1974) and of William G and R. Hunderwood (1974).

The obtained results were statistically processed by variation analysis, by Student - t test.

RESULTS AND DISCUSSION

As could be seen from Table 1, LH level in the males was elevated with a high significance after the treatment (p < 0.001). The changes affected both samples to the same rate (at 8 a.m. and 12 p.m.). FSH concentration was not affected under the same conditions. The other two hypophyseal hormones, ACTH and STH were not changed.

An insignificant tendency to elevation was observed in STH level (mean values - 2.9 prior to and 3.2 mg/ml post treatment) in some of the cases. The level of sex hormones was strongly affected. Thus testosterone concentration was three-fold (2) increased and that of estradiol - about 1.5 times (Table 1).

Table 1
Hormone Prior to Tribestan
Post Tribestan

8 a.m.
12 p.m.
8 a.m.
12 p.m.

LH, mIU/ml X 13.0 14.38(1) 37.25 24.75
SX 0.64 0.73 1.01 0.79
Pt 0.001 0.001
FSH, mIU/ml X 13.38 13.50 13.38 11.38
SX 0.35 0.28 0.35 0.36
Pt >0.5 >0.5
Testosterone, ng % X 628 610 882 845
SX 48 46 35 32
Pt <0.001 <0.001
Estradiol pg/ml X 79 76 133 137.5
SX 3.46 2.24 6.72 5.86
Pt <0.001 <0.001

LH concentration was also increased in females under Tribestan effect. What impressed was that the significance was lower than the first sample. The greatest discrepancy, as compared with the results of the males, was the sharp stimulation of FSH. A strong effect was observed there, which could be explained by blood withdrawal during the early phase of the menstrual cycle, the so-called follicular phase. Estradiol was also strongly affected (Pt < 0.001), whereas testosterone in the females during the early hours of the day was less affected (Table 2).

Table 2
Hormone
Prior to Tribestan
Post Tribestan

8 a.m.
12 p.m.
8 a.m.
12 p.m.

LH, mIU/ml X 15.25 13.50 17.13 16.88
SX 0.64 0.87 0.73 0.35
Pt 0.02 0.001
FSH, mIU/ml X 11.00 11.88 17.75 15.25
SX 0.13 0.09 0.71 0.38
Pt 0.001 0.001
Estradiol mIU/ml X 72.13 59.38 77.13 87.50
SX 6.02 5.73 5.47 3.24
Pt 0.5 0.001

The level of adrenal hormone was identically affected both in males and females (Table 3). A significant increase of the concentration was also established though that effect had a relatively low significance (p < 0.05). At the same time, cortisol level was no changed (Table 3).

Table 3
Aldosterone Cortisol
Prior to Post Prior to Post
X 11.59 13.77 8.63 8.63
S 2.52 3.48 2.20 1.92
SX 0.63 0.87 0.55 0.48
Pt 0.05 0.05

The results obtained provided grounds to admit that Tribestan had a pronounced stimulating effect on the secretion of some hormones. The effect on the hormones along the hypophyseal-gonadal axis was particularly well manifested. The effect was manifested both at hypophyseal and gonadal level. Some sexual discrepancies were also established. Thus, FSH was mainly affected in the females. The presence of that hormone is exceptionally important during the follicular phase for the development of the follicle. When its development is stimulated, its secretory ability is also intensified and hence - estradiol level is elevated. Lutenizing hormone is more strongly influenced in the male, which on its part stimulates the secretion of testosterone.

ACTH and cortisol were not changed suggesting that they were not significantly involved in the realization of Tribestan effects. The tendency of stimulation of STH and aldosterone explained the activation of the anabolic processes in the body and general stimulating action of the product. The absence of effect on the level of cortisol showed however that the general tonic action was very strongly manifested.

It should be stressed that the level of the hormones studied did not go out beyond the physiological frames i.e. it did not disturb the physiological mechanisms of hormonal regulation.

References

Vankov S., S. Zarkova, Z. Gendzhev, M. Tomova - Effect of TB-68 on the spermatogenesis in albino rats. Proceeding of the Third National Conference of Pharmacology and Clinics of New Bulgarian Drugs, Sofia, November 14-16, 1973, v.2, 161-163.
Vankov S., S. Zarkova, M. Tomova - TB-68 effect on ovulation of albino rats. Proceedings of Third National Conference of Pharmacology and Clinics of New Bulgarian Drugs, Sofia, November 14-16, 1973, v.2, 165-167.
Gendzhev Z., S. Zarkova - Effect of the phyto-pharmaceutical TB-68 on the number of spermatozoa in epididymis of rat. Med. Archive, 1978, N I, 113-118.
Dimova P., M. Taskov - Comparative enzyme-histological studies of some phyto-products. MBI (at the printer's), 1981.
Zarkova S. - Morphological and histological changes in testes of rat under the effect of TB-68, Med. Archive, 1976, N 4, 49-53.
Protich M., D. Zvetanov, V. Nalbanski, R.Stanislavov, M.Kazarova - Clinical trial of Tribestan on infertile males, MBI (at the printer's).
Tomova M., V. Gyulemetova, S. Zarkova - Author's certificate N 77584 A 61 K 35/1978.
Berson S.A., R. S. Yalow - Immunoassay of protein hormones, The Hormones, Vol. V, Acad. Press., New York, 1963.
Midgley A.R. - Radioimmunoassay for Human, J. Clin. Endocr., 1967, 27, 295.
Orezyk, Gaylo P., Burton v. Caldwell, Harold H. Behrmaan - Methods of Hormone Radioimmunoassay - Ed. B. Jaffe, H. Berhmaan, A6. Press, NJ, London, 1974, 333-343.
Vescei P. - Glicocorticoids: Cortisol Corticosterone - Methods of Hormone Radioimmunoassay; Ed. B. Jaffe and H. Behrmaan, Ac. Press, NJ, London 393-412.
William R.H. - Textbook of Endocrinology 4th Edit. Saunder, Philadelphia, 1968.
Williams Gordon H., Richard H. Hunderwood - Methods of Hormon Radioimmunoassay; Ed. B. Jaffe and H. Behrmaan, Ac. Press, NJ, London, 1974, 371-390.



Aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus Terrestris extract (Protodioscin) in normal and castrated rats.Gauthaman K, Adaikan PG, Prasad RN.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, National University Hospital, National University of Singapore, Singapore 119704, Singapore.

Tribulus terrestris (TT) has long been used in the traditional Chinese and Indian systems of medicine for the treatment of various ailments and is popularly claimed to improve sexual functions in man. Sexual behaviour and intracavernous pressure (ICP) were studied in both normal and castrated rats to further understand the role of TT containing protodioscin (PTN) as an aphrodisiac. Adult Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into five groups of 8 each that included distilled water treated (normal and castrated), testosterone treated (normal and castrated, 10 mg/kg body weight, subcutaneously, bi-weekly) and TT treated (castrated, 5 mg/kg body weight, orally once daily). Decreases in body weight, prostate weight and ICP were observed among the castrated groups of rats compared to the intact group. There was an overall reduction in the sexual behaviour parameters in the castrated groups of rats as reflected by decrease in mount and intromission frequencies (MF and IF) and increase in mount, intromission, ejaculation latencies (ML, IL, EL) as well as post-ejaculatory interval (PEI). Compared to the castrated control, treatment of castrated rats (with either testosterone or TT extract) showed increase in prostate weight and ICP that were statistically significant. There was also a mild to moderate improvement of the sexual behaviour parameters as evidenced by increase in MF and IF; decrease in ML, IL and PEI. These results were statistically significant. It is concluded that TT extract appears to possess aphrodisiac activity probably due to androgen increasing property of TT (observed in our earlier study on primates).

The hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris and its role in the management of male erectile dysfunction - an evaluation using primates, rabbit and rat.

Gauthaman K, Ganesan AP.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore, 5 Lower Kent Ridge Road, 119074 Singapore.

Hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30mg/kg, in primates for acute study. Rabbits and normal rats were treated with 2.5, 5 and 10mg/kg of TT extract orally for 8 weeks, for chronic study. In addition, castrated rats were treated either with testosterone cypionate (10mg/kg, subcutaneously; biweekly for 8 weeks) or TT orally (5mg/kg daily for 8 weeks). Blood samples were analyzed for testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS) levels using radioimmunoassay. In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5mg/kg were statistically significant. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51% and 25% were observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant. TT increases some of the sex hormones, possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the extract. TT may be useful in mild to moderate cases of ED.
Click to expand...


The above study shows Tribulus being used in primates, rabbits and rats who have ED. When tested in HUMANS in has ZERO effect on hormone levels.

The studies you posted prove my point, Tribulus is probably very good as an aphrodisiac or sex enhancer in men. Other then that its useless.
 
EasyEJL said:
I think we need some popcorn and more comfortable seats in here
Click to expand...

I just felt that comment was about as relevant as SSE's, lol.

(insert lengthy copy and paste here; specifically, a Ukranian study citing how male circus midgets with ovaries have a high binding affinity to SHBG when ingested orally)
 
I think I learn something new everyday on here. It's like a cornucopia of knowledge. I'm logging Omnibolic, wouldn't mind trying some of this Androgenerator stuff out to. He makes craze-o claims to his products.
 
Designer Supps said:
The above study shows Tribulus being used in primates, rabbits and rats who have ED. When tested in HUMANS in has ZERO effect on hormone levels.

The studies you posted prove my point, Tribulus is probably very good as an aphrodisiac or sex enhancer in men. Other then that its useless.
Click to expand...

It says it was tested on primates, rabbits and rats for possible use to treat ED, it doesnt say the primates, rabbits and rats had ED. When was 3, 4 davablabla ever tested on a human period (in a published study or in any study anywhere online)?
 
Mulletsoldier said:
I just felt that comment was about as relevant as SSE's, lol.

(insert lengthy copy and paste here; specifically, a Ukranian study citing how male circus midgets with ovaries have a high binding affinity to SHBG when ingested orally)
Click to expand...

Well, the excitement level really kicked up a notch when Designer Supps walked in, thats when I went to go make the popcorn....



Sure, but how did you standardize the circus midget extract? was it some proprietary USP Labs process you won't share? Did you have to create your own ovary containing circus midget farm? ;)
 
matthew76 said:
Not trying to be a d!ck, but isn't that the 50th time you posted that? Just curious...
Click to expand...

and I told him the last time he posted it, the tribulus Sopharma sellls as Tribestan is a 55:1 extract of the tribulus leave that contains a full spectrum of saponins. Protodiocin is measured.

I keep telling him in none of these studies was protodiocin used as a refined extract, or as a synthetic compound. Most of the tribulus they tested contains protodiocin, yeah but that doesnt mean protodiocin did blablabla, and for the trillion and 1 time protodiocin itself doesnt increase LH. He keeps saying yes it does, then cut and pasting studies.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
I just felt that comment was about as relevant as SSE's, lol.

(insert lengthy copy and paste here; specifically, a Ukranian study citing how male circus midgets with ovaries have a high binding affinity to SHBG when ingested orally)
Click to expand...

LOL
 
EasyEJL said:
Sure, but how did you standardize the circus midget extract? was it some proprietary USP Labs process you won't share? Did you have to create your own ovary containing circus midget farm? ;)
Click to expand...


Directly after our monkey saliva extaction.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Look, your write up is full of info thats incorrect on alot of the ingredients, it wont increase penis size, and it wont produce a 500% rise in test levels......protodiocin doesnt increase LH, and nothing in Long Jack binds to SHBG not that anyone knows off as of now. Not even the people down the road from me at HP ingredients. If you call Annie, and ask her what ingredient in LJ100 binds to SHBG she will not have an answer for you. LJ100 will increase DHEA and total test and free test but that doesnt mean something is binding to SHBG.
Click to expand...

SupremeSE said:
Just like Proviron, LJ-100 avidly binds to SHBG(Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) and drastically increases FREE TESTOSTERONE(500%)


................

Are you reading the studies?:lol:
Click to expand...

alwaysgaining said:
well well well :)
what i can say by READING the studies in this thread is that chuck this guy must not read his own "copy and paste" "studies" lol
i mean come on why would you post stuff if you dont evan read whats in them lol hahaha
oooo and for all you wondering i called HP ingredients and the guy there told me that the studies DO NOT show that LJ100 binds to SHBG but it may decrease it

i repete IT DOSE NOT BIND TO IT:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

This is the funniest part of this entire thread.
 
EasyEJL said:
Well, the excitement level really kicked up a notch when Designer Supps walked in, thats when I went to go make the popcorn....



Sure, but how did you standardize the circus midget extract? was it some proprietary USP Labs process you won't share? Did you have to create your own ovary containing circus midget farm? ;)
Click to expand...

We actually stole the formula from AN. Stragi revealed how you and him impregnate them to create more - products backed by science. :)
 
Androgenerator dude is back? Everybody's squabblin' about this and that? Circus midget extract? Starting to feel like BB.com..
 
Haha, well we're just joking. And I think the only person squabbling is SSE. Chuck I think is laughing, Jacob and I are passive observes, DS thinks he's retarded, and Easy just searches for posts about midgets to masturbate to.

See! One big, dysfunctional as fvck family.
 
What I found most entertaining was that as heated as the arguments were, there were no personal attacks until mullet showed up.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
It says it was tested on primates, rabbits and rats for possible use to treat ED, it doesnt say the primates, rabbits and rats had ED. When was 3, 4 davablabla ever tested on a human period (in a published study or in any study anywhere online)?
Click to expand...

Are you serious?

Chrubasik JE, Roufogalis BD, Wagner H, Chrubasik S. A comprehensive review on the stinging nettle effect and efficacy profiles. Part II: urticae radix. Phytomed. Aug 2007;14(7-8):568-579.

In this systematic review, the authors examine the evidence on the effects and efficacy of stinging nettle root extract preparations in the treatment of benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH). The authors have systematically searched Medline via Pubmed through July 2006 for controlled and uncontrolled clinical trials and pre-clinical studies on stinging nettle root preparations and BPH. Contact with experts, hand searches through the authors' own files, and bibliographies from all included papers were searched for additional publications. Studies on preparations made from multi-plant mixtures were excluded from the review.

Stinging nettle root preparations have been used in European folk medicine for urinary tract complaints for many years. Germany's Commission E recommends 4-6 g/day of stinging nettle root (Urtica dioica, U. urens) preparations in the treatment of "Difficulty in urination in benign prostatic hyperplasia stages 1 and 2."1 Studies on stinging nettle root use daily doses of 4-6 g/day of the infusion, 300-600 mg (DER [drug-extract ratio] 7-14:1, solvent- 20% methanol) to 378-756 mg (DER 12-16:1, solvent- 70% ethanol) of the dried native stinging nettle extracts, and 4.5-7.5 ml (DER 1:1, solvent- 45% ethanol) or 15 ml (DER 1:5, solvent- 40% ethanol) of the fluid extracts. The active constituents include phytosterols, lignans, polysaccharides, and the lectin UDA (Urtica dioica agglutinine).

Published clinical research on stinging nettle root extract and BPH date back to 1950, but there are very few double-blind randomized controlled clinical trials. A case report from 1950 describes a beneficial effect of stinging nettle root tea. A total of 40,000 men with BPH have been treated with stinging nettle root preparations in 34 clinical trials. Of these 34 clinical trials, 24 are open and uncontrolled, 2 are open and controlled, and 6 are randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials. Only 1 of the 6 randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials includes a hypothesis. All of the clinical trials have examined methanolic stinging nettle root extracts.

Two double-blind human pharmacological studies have shown that stinging nettle root extract BAZ (1,200 mg/day) decreases levels of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), compared with placebo. Two studies on stinging nettle root extracts demonstrated conflicting results on its hormonal effects. One showed an increase in levels of testosterone, 5-alpha-dehydroxytestosterone, and estradiol over seven months of treatment. Conversely, a 9-week trial on the BAZ extract (600 mg/day) showed no difference in levels of testosterone, androstandiol, and acid phosphatase. Open uncontrolled clinical trials provide conflicting evidence on the effects of stinging nettle root extract on sex hormones, and more research is needed. Human pharmacological studies have also examined the effect of stinging nettle root extract on prostate cell proliferation with inconclusive results. Nine weeks of treatment with BAZ (600 mg/day) resulted in treatment-induced glandular cell death and reactive inflammation. Twenty weeks of BAZ extract treatment (1,200 mg/day) resulted in reduced prostate cell metabolism. After six months of BAZ treatment (1,200 mg/day), the volume density of cytoplasmic secretion granula increased and the volume density of lysosomes decreased. These results suggest decreasing autophagy and increasing secretion of glandular cells. An additional study showed "an increase in the proportion of large-volume nuclei." After one year of treatment, stinging nettle root constituents or their metabolites are detectable in glandular cells, compared to controls. Stinging nettle constituents are not found following incubation of BPH tissue with stinging nettle extract. More research is needed on the possible effect of stinging nettle root extract on prostate cell growth.

All together, these clinical trials provide "some evidence of effectiveness of methanolic nettle root extracts in improving BPH complaints in the short-term; however, in order to calculate the effect size, more rigorous data are necessary." Future clinical trials should take into consideration the suggestions of the World Health Organization International Consultation on BPH and the consensus index (International Prostate Symptom Score). These authors write that more rigorous clinical research is needed "before nettle root extract may be considered in the BPH treatment guidelines." The clinical importance of pure stinging nettle root extract in the treatment of BPH has decreased because the combination of stinging nettle root and saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) extract are more effective. So, fewer studies are being conducted on stinging nettle root extract alone. There are a total of 699 adverse events for stinging nettle root; however, the numbers of adverse events may be higher because many studies did not report adverse events. The most common adverse effects are impotence and decreased libido. The majority of studies were conducted with a 20% methanolic extract. They indicate that this extract has a good short-term safety profile. Trials with longer treatment periods are needed to establish long-term safety; however short-term treatment is safe and associated with low toxicity levels.

In vitro experiments have provided insight into possible mechanisms of action for the effect of stinging nettle root extracts on BPH. An aqueous stinging nettle root extract inhibited SHBG binding to human prostatic membrane receptors. Isolated polar lignans, including secoisolariciresinol, interfered with SHBG binding to steroids, probably through competitive inhibition. Structurally, "a low polarity in the aliphatic part and a 3-methoxy-4-hydroxy substitution pattern in the aromatic part resulted in higher binding affinity for SHBG." Constituents of stinging nettle root displaced free steroid hormones from their SHBG binding sites and prevented the interaction of SHBG with prostate receptors. More research is needed to establish which constituents are responsible for these effects.

In addition, research suggests that stinging nettle root extract "interferes with the conversion of testosterone into estrogens." Ethanolic stinging nettle root extract WS1031 (W. Schwabe Pharmaceuticals, Karlsruhe, Germany) inhibited the aromatization of androstenedione in vitro, and this effect has been attributed to lipophilic constituents. The addition of saw palmetto berry extract, used in the treatment of symptoms related to BPH, increased this effect. Ethanolic stinging nettle extract LI 166 (Lichtwer Pharma, Berlin, Germany) and a methanolic extract also inhibited aromatase. The activity of the methanolic extract increased with the addition of an extract made from the bark of the African prune (Pygeum africanum). Stinging nettle root extracts from a variety of producers inhibited aromatase. Aqueous stinging nettle root extract BNO 1250 (Bionorica, Neumarkdt, Germany) inhibited estradiol formation in a time- and dose-dependent manner. Common fatty acids, (10E, 12Z)-9-hydroxy-10,12-octadecadienoic acid, and other lignans are some of the constituents responsible for this effect. However, stinging nettle root contains only low levels of these constituents. Therefore, other active constituents remain to be identified. In addition to inhibiting aromatase, stinging nettle root extract may also inhibit aromatase gene expression.

In vitro evidence shows an anti-inflammatory effect for stinging nettle extracts. Ethanolic stinging nettle root extract WS1031 inhibited bovine leukocyte elastase. Methanolic stinging nettle root extract BAZ inhibited the alternative pathway of complement activation. A polysaccharide fraction and isolated nettle root polysaccharides, including rhamnogalacturanes, also inhibited complement activation. The commercial stinging nettle extract Bazoton(r) (Kanoldt Arzneimittel GmbH, Germany) contains 1.7% polysaccharides, which could exert an anti-inflammatory effect.

Cultured fibroblasts from the rat ventral prostate are used to screen for prostatotrophic compounds in vitro, and stinging nettle root extracts demonstrated activity. Nettle root extract BAZ (0.01%) reduced the proliferation of prostatic stromal fibroblasts by 50%. Fractions of methanolic BAZ extract reduced proliferation to various degrees, possibly through an androgen-independent mechanism of action. Conversely, another study on the methanolic BAZ extract showed a significant concentration- and time-dependent anti-proliferative effect on epithelial cells, but not stromal cells. The effect is attributed to a polysaccharide fraction. When cells from normal and BPH biopsies were incubated with the methanolic BAZ nettle extract, prostate metabolism was not affected and homogenous granules decreased. The stinging nettle root lectin UDA inhibited the binding of epithelial growth factor (EGF) to its receptor. This effect is antagonized by the oligosaccharide chitotriose, which has an affinity for the EGF receptor site. Another study showed that stinging nettle root extracts "may suppress prostate cell metabolism and growth by interaction with prostate steroid membrane receptors." Therefore, further research is needed on the effect of stinging nettle root extract on prostate cell growth.

In vivo studies provide further information. One in vivo study showed that stinging nettle root extract may exert an anti-inflammatory effect. Stinging nettle root extract LI 166 and its polysaccharide fraction showed an anti-inflammatory effect in the carageenin-induced rat paw edema test. More research is needed to determine if this anti-inflammatory effect translates to an anti-prostatic effect. The stinging nettle root extract BAZ reduced prostate size and serum testosterone levels in dogs. Hecogenin acetate is one of the active constituents.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
It says it was tested on primates, rabbits and rats for possible use to treat ED, it doesnt say the primates, rabbits and rats had ED. When was 3, 4 davablabla ever tested on a human period (in a published study or in any study anywhere online)?
Click to expand...

Are you serious?

Chrubasik JE, Roufogalis BD, Wagner H, Chrubasik S. A comprehensive review on the stinging nettle effect and efficacy profiles. Part II: urticae radix. Phytomed. Aug 2007;14(7-8):568-579.

In this systematic review, the authors examine the evidence on the effects and efficacy of stinging nettle root extract preparations in the treatment of benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH). The authors have systematically searched Medline via Pubmed through July 2006 for controlled and uncontrolled clinical trials and pre-clinical studies on stinging nettle root preparations and BPH. Contact with experts, hand searches through the authors' own files, and bibliographies from all included papers were searched for additional publications. Studies on preparations made from multi-plant mixtures were excluded from the review.

Stinging nettle root preparations have been used in European folk medicine for urinary tract complaints for many years. Germany's Commission E recommends 4-6 g/day of stinging nettle root (Urtica dioica, U. urens) preparations in the treatment of "Difficulty in urination in benign prostatic hyperplasia stages 1 and 2."1 Studies on stinging nettle root use daily doses of 4-6 g/day of the infusion, 300-600 mg (DER [drug-extract ratio] 7-14:1, solvent- 20% methanol) to 378-756 mg (DER 12-16:1, solvent- 70% ethanol) of the dried native stinging nettle extracts, and 4.5-7.5 ml (DER 1:1, solvent- 45% ethanol) or 15 ml (DER 1:5, solvent- 40% ethanol) of the fluid extracts. The active constituents include phytosterols, lignans, polysaccharides, and the lectin UDA (Urtica dioica agglutinine).

Published clinical research on stinging nettle root extract and BPH date back to 1950, but there are very few double-blind randomized controlled clinical trials. A case report from 1950 describes a beneficial effect of stinging nettle root tea. A total of 40,000 men with BPH have been treated with stinging nettle root preparations in 34 clinical trials. Of these 34 clinical trials, 24 are open and uncontrolled, 2 are open and controlled, and 6 are randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials. Only 1 of the 6 randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials includes a hypothesis. All of the clinical trials have examined methanolic stinging nettle root extracts.

Two double-blind human pharmacological studies have shown that stinging nettle root extract BAZ (1,200 mg/day) decreases levels of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), compared with placebo. Two studies on stinging nettle root extracts demonstrated conflicting results on its hormonal effects. One showed an increase in levels of testosterone, 5-alpha-dehydroxytestosterone, and estradiol over seven months of treatment. Conversely, a 9-week trial on the BAZ extract (600 mg/day) showed no difference in levels of testosterone, androstandiol, and acid phosphatase. Open uncontrolled clinical trials provide conflicting evidence on the effects of stinging nettle root extract on sex hormones, and more research is needed. Human pharmacological studies have also examined the effect of stinging nettle root extract on prostate cell proliferation with inconclusive results. Nine weeks of treatment with BAZ (600 mg/day) resulted in treatment-induced glandular cell death and reactive inflammation. Twenty weeks of BAZ extract treatment (1,200 mg/day) resulted in reduced prostate cell metabolism. After six months of BAZ treatment (1,200 mg/day), the volume density of cytoplasmic secretion granula increased and the volume density of lysosomes decreased. These results suggest decreasing autophagy and increasing secretion of glandular cells. An additional study showed "an increase in the proportion of large-volume nuclei." After one year of treatment, stinging nettle root constituents or their metabolites are detectable in glandular cells, compared to controls. Stinging nettle constituents are not found following incubation of BPH tissue with stinging nettle extract. More research is needed on the possible effect of stinging nettle root extract on prostate cell growth.
 
All together, these clinical trials provide "some evidence of effectiveness of methanolic nettle root extracts in improving BPH complaints in the short-term; however, in order to calculate the effect size, more rigorous data are necessary." Future clinical trials should take into consideration the suggestions of the World Health Organization International Consultation on BPH and the consensus index (International Prostate Symptom Score). These authors write that more rigorous clinical research is needed "before nettle root extract may be considered in the BPH treatment guidelines." The clinical importance of pure stinging nettle root extract in the treatment of BPH has decreased because the combination of stinging nettle root and saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) extract are more effective. So, fewer studies are being conducted on stinging nettle root extract alone. There are a total of 699 adverse events for stinging nettle root; however, the numbers of adverse events may be higher because many studies did not report adverse events. The most common adverse effects are impotence and decreased libido. The majority of studies were conducted with a 20% methanolic extract. They indicate that this extract has a good short-term safety profile. Trials with longer treatment periods are needed to establish long-term safety; however short-term treatment is safe and associated with low toxicity levels.

In vitro experiments have provided insight into possible mechanisms of action for the effect of stinging nettle root extracts on BPH. An aqueous stinging nettle root extract inhibited SHBG binding to human prostatic membrane receptors. Isolated polar lignans, including secoisolariciresinol, interfered with SHBG binding to steroids, probably through competitive inhibition. Structurally, "a low polarity in the aliphatic part and a 3-methoxy-4-hydroxy substitution pattern in the aromatic part resulted in higher binding affinity for SHBG." Constituents of stinging nettle root displaced free steroid hormones from their SHBG binding sites and prevented the interaction of SHBG with prostate receptors. More research is needed to establish which constituents are responsible for these effects.

In addition, research suggests that stinging nettle root extract "interferes with the conversion of testosterone into estrogens." Ethanolic stinging nettle root extract WS1031 (W. Schwabe Pharmaceuticals, Karlsruhe, Germany) inhibited the aromatization of androstenedione in vitro, and this effect has been attributed to lipophilic constituents. The addition of saw palmetto berry extract, used in the treatment of symptoms related to BPH, increased this effect. Ethanolic stinging nettle extract LI 166 (Lichtwer Pharma, Berlin, Germany) and a methanolic extract also inhibited aromatase. The activity of the methanolic extract increased with the addition of an extract made from the bark of the African prune (Pygeum africanum). Stinging nettle root extracts from a variety of producers inhibited aromatase. Aqueous stinging nettle root extract BNO 1250 (Bionorica, Neumarkdt, Germany) inhibited estradiol formation in a time- and dose-dependent manner. Common fatty acids, (10E, 12Z)-9-hydroxy-10,12-octadecadienoic acid, and other lignans are some of the constituents responsible for this effect. However, stinging nettle root contains only low levels of these constituents. Therefore, other active constituents remain to be identified. In addition to inhibiting aromatase, stinging nettle root extract may also inhibit aromatase gene expression.

In vitro evidence shows an anti-inflammatory effect for stinging nettle extracts. Ethanolic stinging nettle root extract WS1031 inhibited bovine leukocyte elastase. Methanolic stinging nettle root extract BAZ inhibited the alternative pathway of complement activation. A polysaccharide fraction and isolated nettle root polysaccharides, including rhamnogalacturanes, also inhibited complement activation. The commercial stinging nettle extract Bazoton(r) (Kanoldt Arzneimittel GmbH, Germany) contains 1.7% polysaccharides, which could exert an anti-inflammatory effect.

Cultured fibroblasts from the rat ventral prostate are used to screen for prostatotrophic compounds in vitro, and stinging nettle root extracts demonstrated activity. Nettle root extract BAZ (0.01%) reduced the proliferation of prostatic stromal fibroblasts by 50%. Fractions of methanolic BAZ extract reduced proliferation to various degrees, possibly through an androgen-independent mechanism of action. Conversely, another study on the methanolic BAZ extract showed a significant concentration- and time-dependent anti-proliferative effect on epithelial cells, but not stromal cells. The effect is attributed to a polysaccharide fraction. When cells from normal and BPH biopsies were incubated with the methanolic BAZ nettle extract, prostate metabolism was not affected and homogenous granules decreased. The stinging nettle root lectin UDA inhibited the binding of epithelial growth factor (EGF) to its receptor. This effect is antagonized by the oligosaccharide chitotriose, which has an affinity for the EGF receptor site. Another study showed that stinging nettle root extracts "may suppress prostate cell metabolism and growth by interaction with prostate steroid membrane receptors." Therefore, further research is needed on the effect of stinging nettle root extract on prostate cell growth.

In vivo studies provide further information. One in vivo study showed that stinging nettle root extract may exert an anti-inflammatory effect. Stinging nettle root extract LI 166 and its polysaccharide fraction showed an anti-inflammatory effect in the carageenin-induced rat paw edema test. More research is needed to determine if this anti-inflammatory effect translates to an anti-prostatic effect. The stinging nettle root extract BAZ reduced prostate size and serum testosterone levels in dogs. Hecogenin acetate is one of the active constituents.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
....I think it's like the Bat Phone, direct line.
Click to expand...

LMFAO at this as well mullet... between this thread and the comment you left in sinners log your on a comedic streak that will rival any stand ups routine.....

I do have to say Im not impressed with the information presented backing Androgenerators claims... mostly Chuck has accurately defeated each study, these studies are not specific enough to come to the conclusions your trying to make Ross. A drop in SHBG is not total binding and removal of it and like he stated the Trib used in all those studies were not specifiacally standardized and all the conclusions were "maybe's" and "probably's", not 100% sure. They know they cant claim that without eliminating the other possible fully responsible extracts for these reactions either through synergy with proto or on thier own.....

I still dont like how the increase in test by 500% has been totally ignored and how these claims can be made. Has a SINGLE blood test been done on a healthy male taking this?
 
didnt biotest have a 4-ad product? i guess if you had low enough test and dosed that pretty high you could meet their claims.... of course with products like that you dont have to bold it and put it at the top of your write up.... its known what it does.
 
Designer Supps said:
The Cliff's notes version is
Divanil's results are backed by science, the lab, in actual human testers with blood work and finally in the gym. The best of everything.
Click to expand...

I laughed out loud when he even questioned it.....

Chuck youve done all this homework and researched and researched and researched and still questioned this?

not to mention you use stinging nettle in your products do you not???
 
All the "studies" SSE (Ross) has posted arnt "studies", there doctored and prpduced by manufacturers. They dont appear on pubmed/medline. No studies do support any audacious claim of AndroGenerator or SSE for that matter.
 
poopypants said:
LMFAO at this as well mullet... between this thread and the comment you left in sinners log your on a comedic streak that will rival any stand ups routine.....

I do have to say Im not impressed with the information presented backing Androgenerators claims... mostly Chuck has accurately defeated each study, these studies are not specific enough to come to the conclusions your trying to make Ross. A drop in SHBG is not total binding and removal of it and like he stated the Trib used in all those studies were not specifiacally standardized and all the conclusions were "maybe's" and "probably's", not 100% sure. They know they cant claim that without eliminating the other possible fully responsible extracts for these reactions either through synergy with proto or on thier own.....

I still dont like how the increase in test by 500% has been totally ignored and how these claims can be made. Has a SINGLE blood test been done on a healthy male taking this?
Click to expand...

IN CONCLUSION:

LJ100 is PATENTED, as it is scientifically PROVEN to be anabolic:

THE ANABOLIC EFFECTS OF LJ100
For a printable copy of this study, please click here: Invalid Link Removed

Tribulus Terrestris EXTRACT(containing 20% Protodioscin) increases LH and TESTOSTERONE
Invalid Link Removed

Vitex is a Phyto-SERM that decreases estrogen and prolactin while increasing LH
Invalid Link Removed

Top top it all off, we added Bioperine to increase Bioavaialibilty, and CEEM, Glutamine AKG, Guanidino Proprionic Acid, and the *Patented Cinnulin-PF to increase lean muscle mass and strength
 
EasyEJL said:
What I found most entertaining was that as heated as the arguments were, there were no personal attacks until mullet showed up.
Click to expand...

I think everybody in this thread realized they were comedic relief, except you. And they weren't 'personally' attacking anybody.
 
SupremeSE said:
I would like to repeat:

IN CONCLUSION:

LJ100 is PATENTED, as it is scientifically PROVEN to be anabolic:

THE ANABOLIC EFFECTS OF LJ100
For a printable copy of this study, please click here: Invalid Link Removed

Tribulus Terrestris EXTRACT(containing 20% Protodioscin) increases LH and TESTOSTERONE
Invalid Link Removed

-NO, tribulus (some extracts) increase DHEA and total testosterone and estrogen, just because it contains protodioscin doesnt mean it will increase LH.


Vitex is a Phyto-SERM that decreases estrogen and prolactin while increasing LH
Invalid Link Removed

-....in women it increases LH, its a photoestrogen, it wont decrease estrogen, it isnt an anti-aromatase. In men Vitex decreases prolactin, and decreased test and libido, thats why its called Chaste Berry. Monks originally used it to stop them from wanting to have sex....ie as a Chastity herb.

Top top it all off, we added Bioperine to increase Bioavaialibilty, and CEEM, Glutamine AKG, Guanidino Proprionic Acid, and the *Patented Cinnulin-PF to increase lean muscle mass and strength
Click to expand...

Chuck comments is huge red font ^^^

Now the product might increase test and strength, well it almost have to increase strength because creatine is in it. But the way you say it works is all wrong.....and there wont be any 500% increase in testosterone.

Now I know your going to cut and paste some more studies soon but whatever.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Chuck comments is huge red font ^^^

Now the product might increase test and strength, well it almost have to increase strength because creatine is in it. But the way you say it works is all wrong.....and there wont be any 500% increase in testosterone.

Now I know your going to cut and paste some more studies soon but whatever.
Click to expand...

So you ADMIT that certain tribulus EXTRACTS will increase DHEA and TESTOSTERONE? Your product contains a 20% extract...

As far as Eurycoma Longifolia(Long Jack aka Tongkat ALi) is concerned, NOT ALL FORMS ARE EQUAL! The commmon extracts are INFERIOR water extracts: 10: 50: 100: *LJ100 is the ONLY STANDARDIZED Eurycoma extract IN THE WORLD that contains 22% Eurypeptides. You only use Eurycoma PLANT, not a standardized extract in your product, correct?
 
SupremeSE said:
So you ADMIT that certain tribulus EXTRACTS will increase DHEA and TESTOSTERONE? Your product contains a 20% extract...

As far as Eurycoma Longifolia(Long Jack aka Tongkat ALi) is concerned, NOT ALL FORMS ARE EQUAL! The commmon extracts are INFERIOR water extracts: 10: 50: 100: *LJ100 is the ONLY STANDARDIZED Eurycoma extract IN THE WORLD that contains 22% Eurypeptides. You only use Eurycoma PLANT, not a standardized extract in your product, correct?
Click to expand...

What do you mean admit? I never said certain extracts of tribulus didnt increase DHEA or testosterone, I said protodiocin wont increase LH.

Hey for the I dont know umptenth time.......what you are talking about, I use LJ100.
 
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