Epistane = Phera-Plex....WTF??

[EasyEJL]

Im also sick of people saying Pheraplex/DMT makes your heart this n that, and i wont run it because of that.....blah blah blah....all anabolic steroids can enlarge the heart! So give it a rest! please. DMT just happens to be one that has published scientific evidence and also one that was actually tested specifically for that study.

Thats like the 1 pubmed article that shows that 1-testosterone causes liver weight to go up. I'm pretty sure that most androgens do.

 

[slow-mun]

If you don't like my thread than get your sh!t talkin ass out of it tough guy!!
If this is the way you chose to represent your company, than I'm sure there are many other threads that could use your infinite wisdom and all knowing responses to something that doesnt anger you.
I did not start this thread to badmouth any epi-type products. I started it to get more insight into an article I read that merly peaked my interest, from people with more knowledge than myself. And to discuss the topic with other fellow body builders who (like myself) may have been hearing about this for the first time.
On the other hand it seems that you came here trying to start some kind of pathetic E-fight with me over a topic you clearly do not agree with. I don't think you would want to say those things to me in real life!! You don't know me and I don't know you so watch your mouth! Or else I can e-mail you my home address and we could discuss this in person. But this is childish and I will no longer respond to your insulting post as it is making us both look unintelligent!

You insulted me first and now you're threatening me over the internet? Are you having a bad day?

 

[Schism]

You insulted me first and now you're threatening me over the internet? Are you having a bad day?

No one is threatening you slow. And yea kind of.

 

[slow-mun]

If you don't like my thread than get your sh!t talkin ass out of it tough guy!!
If this is the way you chose to represent your company, than I'm sure there are many other threads that could use your infinite wisdom and all knowing responses to something that doesnt anger you.
I did not start this thread to badmouth any epi-type products. I started it to get more insight into an article I read that merly peaked my interest, from people with more knowledge than myself. And to discuss the topic with other fellow body builders who (like myself) may have been hearing about this for the first time.
On the other hand it seems that you came here trying to start some kind of pathetic E-fight with me over a topic you clearly do not agree with. I don't think you would want to say those things to me in real life!! You don't know me and I don't know you so watch your mouth! Or else I can e-mail you my home address and we could discuss this in person. But this is childish and I will no longer respond to your insulting post as it is making us both look unintelligent!

threaten



Main Entry: threat·en
Pronunciation: \ˈthre-tən\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): threat·ened; threat·en·ing \ˈthret-niŋ, ˈthre-tən-iŋ\
Date: 13th century
transitive verb
1: to utter threats against
2 a: to give signs or warning of : portend <the clouds threatened rain> b: to hang over dangerously : menace <famine threatens the city>
3: to announce as intended or possible <the workers threatened a strike>
4: to cause to feel insecure or anxious <felt threatened by his brother's success>
intransitive verb
1: to utter threats
2: to portend evil
— threat·en·er \ˈthret-nər, ˈthre-tən-ər\ noun
— threat·en·ing·ly \ˈthret-niŋ-lē, ˈthre-tən-iŋ-\ adverb

Okay, I guess I was wrong.

 

[ShakesAllDay]

Please, guys. This is ridiculous.

 

[EasyEJL]

apparently a lot of tren use in here. or maybe tainted epistane :rofl:

 

[Schism]

I come on these boards to learn and talk to people with similar interest. Not to E-fight or be an E-smart@ss or to E-threaten.
So i apologize for pissing in your cereal (so to speak)...
So what's your take on this do you think the Epi breaks down to DMT in the body? Cause realy that's all this is about.

 

[EasyEJL]

Sounds about as valid as determining how much energy your body gets from a hamburger by burning it.

 

[MentalTwitch]

Ok, Poopy.
I dont directly support everything PA says. I think he has alot to offer through a bad rep. I hate to do this but no one could deny the power Hitler had, even though he has a bad rep....you catch my drift?
Some times people tend to shoot down PA cause of that.
I understand he may have hard feelings toward things like any human would.
I know he was banned for a good reason as our Mods never do things like that for nothing.

I DO plan to run HAvoc actually. For me it is more that Epistane seems to be gettin hyped up tons. I have a habit of NOT going after things that are constantly in spotlight to try and discover something new, and in a way test it out.

I respect the ideas of ALL people that bring new and a "theory" based idea to the table. I am open minded to peopl having evidence or reason to believe this compound does NOT do what PA says.

I am not sticking up for anyone or telling things about any compound, because i know for the life of me im not on a level of knowledge like most are on PH and etc round here.

Peace.

 

[Ziquor]

All gear and PH's have a possibility of raising BP & cholesterol, but NOT enlarging the heart. The enlargement of the heart & LVH is due to certain compounds binding to the androgen receptors in the heart. Example a compund like OT BARELY binds to any hormonal androgen receptors, let alone the ones in the heart. Therefore it would cause BP & lipid raising but not additional heart issues like some products.

 

[Ziquor]

This thread went from informational opinions to a full fledged riot in minutes. :gore:

 

[EasyEJL]

True, but that just goes back to class 1 vs class II. Basically anything that binds to the AR should cause that, and anything that doesn't shouldnt. Example of not binding directly would be superdrol, which shouldn't cause the heart or liver enlargement

 

[Ziquor]

True, but that just goes back to class 1 vs class II. Basically anything that binds to the AR should cause that, and anything that doesn't shouldnt. Example of not binding directly would be superdrol, which shouldn't cause the heart or liver enlargement

:goodpost: Right, excellent. Damn Easy you probably have the record for most posts? It's always good to see your input.

 

[stxnas]

are you sure? i was under the impression DMT was used or was going to be used to beat testing at one point, although they probably test for it now

DMT stands for desoxymethyltest

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/53938-d-r-u.html#post645226

... There is still no test for superdrol that I have heard of and no USP std to test with if there was. I know that PP (DMT) is testable, plus it can generate metabolites that are detectable too, but it may have been long enough to not show up. This is the best way to pass a drug test...

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/53938-d-r-u-2.html#post648736

What's up with the ramdom stim thrown in there?! Phendimetrazine is not even commonly abused anymore I don't think. This is a very weird test list for sure.

You should test clean. Methyltest is a metabolite of PP but if you quit a week ago, chances are you're OK. That's on a urine test. If you have a hair follicle test, you will still test positive for MT for a long time though (depending on how short you keep your hair).

 

[Schism]

This thread went from informational opinions to a full fledged riot in minutes. :gore:

I know, this is what I was talking about. I should have waited and let some one else post this tread and take all the sh!t for it!!
You had to know this was going to happen. Some people treat these ph's like it's their fcuking god your insulting. All I wanted to do was get this review out there (if you can even call it that) and see what everyone though about it. Whether it's bullsh!t whether it's not I don't know. Just wanted to get it out there.

 

[Ziquor]

Don't worry kid, it's obviously a good thread if it's causing so much interest. DMT = 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol aka Phera -> I see your point about certain peeps treating PH's like they're the holy grail. But these are usually those who work for a company that makes them, or sometimes just someone who used a certain PH and refuses to believe it may have hurt them in someway. Denial...

 

[MentalTwitch]

Yea Schism,
That and when you throw certain names around it influences the feedback. I think the point was made but having it being a number #1 popularity PH and PA and his histroy involved was just adding the ingredients to the soup.....for disaster.
Everyone gets a little riled up tho and i think this thread will slowly float on down.

Peace.

 

[ShakesAllDay]

i think this thread will slowly float on down.

They ALL float!

 

[stxnas]

Don't worry kid, it's obviously a good thread if it's causing so much interest. DMT = 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol aka Phera -> I see your point about certain peeps treating PH's like they're the holy grail. But these are usually those who work for a company that makes them, or sometimes just someone who used a certain PH and refuses to believe it may have hurt them in someway. Denial...

You forgot one
Desoxymethyltestosterone = DMT = 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol aka Phera

 

[poopypants]

True, but that just goes back to class 1 vs class II. Basically anything that binds to the AR should cause that, and anything that doesn't shouldnt. Example of not binding directly would be superdrol, which shouldn't cause the heart or liver enlargement

In this very case then Test is class I and would mean it would have the same strong affinity to binding to the androgen receptor.... so with all the TONS of test taken across the years why dont we hear of IT increasing the hearts size? :think:

Given this is the case though, wether or not 2,3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol converts into DMT in the system and thats the active drug (wich I highly doubt, that would just make it a pro steroid to this and would mean it should display the same characteristics and its clearly a much different compound being so dry even at much higher doses then taken with PP), 2,3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol DOES have a VERY STRONG affinity for binding to the androgen receptor, one of the strongest infact (this is all told to me by Dr D himself). Given this fact and your guys reasoning anything that binds strongly to the Androgen receptor site can cause heart enlargement then I suppose 2,3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol can as well regardless what it might metabolize into.

 

[slow-mun]

Don't worry kid, it's obviously a good thread if it's causing so much interest. DMT = 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol aka Phera -> I see your point about certain peeps treating PH's like they're the holy grail. But these are usually those who work for a company that makes them, or sometimes just someone who used a certain PH and refuses to believe it may have hurt them in someway. Denial...

Not necessarily....., I've worked for two companies that have made hormonal products and I couldn't care either way. Epi is not a compound that I hold in high regard, b/c its effects are very mild and nothing to get excited about. I've used Epistane, Epidrol, and Methyl E before, so its not like I'm some noob concerning its effects and results. I've also used two version of DMT, which were ALRI Ergomax LMG and SNS Methyl-Plex XT. I can tell you with some degree of certainty that there effects are entirely different in producing gains, emotions, and blood work results. I think that its a bit presumptuous to think that a compound that is made from DMT is going to turn into it within the body, regardless if PA says that it does in a lab. I believe that Epithio's will likely leave traces of DMT as it degrades in a petri dish especially if it is acted upon by a chemical solvent. It makes a lot of sense for it to do so, since it is synthisized from it. All this thread builds is speculation. Most people can agree that they are better places(i.e. forums)for these types of threads.

 

[Schism]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your support.

schism: 1. a split or division in an organized group or society, as the result of difference of opinion, of doctrine, ect;
2. the offence of causing or trying to cause split or division in the church or in religion.
3. a sect formed by such a split or division./Websters New-World Dictionary.
Good times, good times.......

 

[Ziquor]

I don't believe everything that binds to the AR affects the heart in this way. Just the more androgenic substances are the better chance they have of attaching to the heart - but some that are androgenic may not at all. I read this here somewhere but can't find it... Slo-mun you haven't had much luck with Epi? I think that's the 1st I ever heard that, interesting.

 

[aspire210]

Thanks for your responce. Out of curiosity what makes you say that DMT is safer than Super and Epi?

Having run both, I had signs of obvious liver strain on superdrol, ie dark circles under the eyes, loss of appetite, lethargy, etc. In addition, superdrol has caused some serious drops in HDL, some approaching 0. Superdrol has been theorized to cause upregulation of the ERs as well, which is the explanation of the delayed gyno. I went hypoglycemic numerous times on SD as well, the only other thing that caused this before was tren. SD caused my low blood pressure to be elevated to high-normal. Having said that, SD was my first steroid and the gains were very good, but in retrospect, it wasn't worth it. Did you see the news paper articles about hospitalization associated with SD, or at least its clones, which "may" be another steroid.

As for epi, I have an allergy to sulfer meds so taking this compound is a big risk for me, so I have not done so. However, all of its properties are based on it being similar to its unmethylated counter part, but if you look at the difference between dianabol and boldenone you see that this logic can be faulty. In addition, we are arguing if this chemical breaks down in the body to another steroid, the fact that we don't know shows how little we really know about this compound. Also, since its a non-aromatizing androgen, evident by the gained hardness, its likely that it is more harsh on lipids than a testosterone derivative such as DMT.

Maybe my original statement about "much safer" applies more to SD and just "safer" applies to epi. At least with DMT we have SOME research in english and a good bit of people have used it on a broad scale.

 

[Schism]

Not necessarily....., I've worked for two companies that have made hormonal products and I couldn't care either way. Epi is not a compound that I hold in high regard, b/c its effects are very mild and nothing to get excited about. I've used Epistane, Epidrol, and Methyl E before, so its not like I'm some noob concerning its effects and results. I've also used two version of DMT, which were ALRI Ergomax LMG and SNS Methyl-Plex XT. I can tell you with some degree of certainty that there effects are entirely different in producing gains, emotions, and blood work results. I think that its a bit presumptuous to think that a compound that is made from DMT is going to turn into it within the body, regardless if PA says that it does in a lab. I believe that Epithio's will likely leave traces of DMT as it degrades in a petri dish especially if it is acted upon by a chemical solvent. It makes a lot of sense for it to do so, since it is synthisized from it. All this thread builds is speculation. Most people can agree that they are better places(i.e. forums)for these types of threads.

What kind of gains/ sides did you experience from the Epi verses the Ergo?

 

[Schism]

Having run both, I had signs of obvious liver strain on superdrol, ie dark circles under the eyes, loss of appetite, lethargy, etc. In addition, superdrol has caused some serious drops in HDL, some approaching 0. Superdrol has been theorized to cause upregulation of the ERs as well, which is the explanation of the delayed gyno. I went hypoglycemic numerous times on superdrol as well, the only other thing that caused this before was tren. SD caused my low blood pressure to be elevated to high-normal. Having said that, SD was my first steroid and the gains were very good, but in retrospect, it wasn't worth it. Did you see the news paper articles about hospitalization associated with SD, or at least its clones, which "may" be another steroid.

As for epi, I have an allergy to sulfer meds so taking this compound is a big risk for me, so I have not done so. However, all of its properties are based on it being similar to its unmethylated counter part, but if you look at the difference between dianabol and boldenone you see that this logic can be faulty. In addition, we are arguing if this chemical breaks down in the body to another steroid, the fact that we don't know shows how little we really know about this compound. Also, since its a non-aromatizing androgen, evident by the gained hardness, its likely that it is more harsh on lipids than a testosterone derivative such as DMT.

Maybe my original statement about "much safer" applies more to SD and just "safer" applies to epi. At least with DMT we have SOME research in english and a good bit of people have used it on a broad scale.

:goodpost:

 

[aspire210]

True, but that just goes back to class 1 vs class II. Basically anything that binds to the AR should cause that, and anything that doesn't shouldnt. Example of not binding directly would be superdrol, which shouldn't cause the heart or liver enlargement

wasn't the whole I vs II thing thrown out years ago?

 

[warnerve]

DMT stands for desoxymethyltest

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/53938-d-r-u.html#post645226


http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/53938-d-r-u-2.html#post648736

ok, i was just going from articles like this: http://www.ergogenics.org/dmt.html

 

[thesinner]

I think this was taken out of context.

It is difficult to TEST FOR epistane because in it degrades into desoxymethyltest during chromatography.

 

[Ziquor]

ok, i was just going from articles like this: http://www.ergogenics.org/dmt.html

There's much talk in that article about methyls being damaging to ones liver, that's a scarry thought & news to me. During my last cycle of methyls I swore I'd only have one cup of beer a night, and I did...

 

[poopypants]

Having run both, I had signs of obvious liver strain on superdrol, ie dark circles under the eyes, loss of appetite, lethargy, etc. In addition, superdrol has caused some serious drops in HDL, some approaching 0. Superdrol has been theorized to cause upregulation of the ERs as well, which is the explanation of the delayed gyno. I went hypoglycemic numerous times on superdrol as well, the only other thing that caused this before was tren. superdrol caused my low blood pressure to be elevated to high-normal. Having said that, superdrol was my first steroid and the gains were very good, but in retrospect, it wasn't worth it. Did you see the news paper articles about hospitalization associated with superdrol, or at least its clones, which "may" be another steroid.

As for epi, I have an allergy to sulfer meds so taking this compound is a big risk for me, so I have not done so. However, all of its properties are based on it being similar to its unmethylated counter part, but if you look at the difference between dianabol and boldenone you see that this logic can be faulty. In addition, we are arguing if this chemical breaks down in the body to another steroid, the fact that we don't know shows how little we really know about this compound. Also, since its a non-aromatizing androgen, evident by the gained hardness, its likely that it is more harsh on lipids than a testosterone derivative such as DMT.

Maybe my original statement about "much safer" applies more to superdrol and just "safer" applies to epi. At least with DMT we have SOME research in english and a good bit of people have used it on a broad scale.

Holy shiz this just made me remember one thing so I can tell you guys two things that you may not have heard and leave you with some speculation contrary to what mr PA has said.

A while back another fellow mentioned he was allergic to sulfer and sulfer meds as well and ws worried about taking epi(cant remember if it was epi or havoc though) and that it could possibly give him an allergic reaction...well Dr D came in and mentioned something about how the Sulfur was bonded on there and would not detatch and he should be fine, but to start at a low dose if he tried it and go from there to see how he reacted. well the guy came back later and said he was doing fine with epi and has gone as high as 30mg without ANY allerigc reaction leading him to belive Dr D was correct and the sulfer must not be freed.

Now this leads me to my realization HERE on this topic. PA is saying that by losing the sulfer then THAT would cause one to have a DMT fragmentation pattern (he mentioned it would take a chemical AND the heat from the injection port to make this happen), wich means hes relying on the exact thing that would cause an allergic reaction in this guy to recreate what hes done in the lab.

This being said

1. Aspire Im pretty sure youll be fine trying Epi but let me find this thread first to console you on the fact if you like, considering someone in your same condition was just fine.

and

2. I highly doubt that this chemical and heat induced reaction used to detatch the sulfer creating DMT's fragmentation pattern (funny he just mentions the pattern and not the actual compound, who knows what else can make this pattern anyways) actually happens in the body as well, otherwise this guy who used it would have been in a world of hurt.

 

[slow-mun]

What kind of gains/ sides did you experience from the Epi verses the Ergo?

Epi- Dry, lean, weight gains which averaged between 5-7lbs.
MAOI type effect on mood, libido loss, minimal
strength gains, and dry joints. Minimal impact on liver
values after 30-40 day cycles. Minimal impact on
lipids. Would use again, due to availability and relative
mildness of compound.

DMT- Wet, bloated weight gains which averaged between 10-
15lbs. Increased aggressive behavior, libido boost,
moderate strength gains, increased blood pressure
and estrogenic sides(i.e. nipple sensitivity). Moderate
impact on liver values after 30 day cycle, moreso when
bridged with SD. Moderate impact on lipids. Will not use
again due to estrogenic sides and impact on health.

 

[stxnas]

ok, i was just going from articles like this: Scientists find new designer steroid

If you read further down the page the article says that DMT would likely test positive due to its "methyltestosterone signature."

I'm very familiar with that site

 

[Ziquor]

Holy shiz this just made me remember one thing so i can tel you guys two things that you may not have heard and leave you with some speculation contrary to what mr PA has said.

A while back another fellow mentioned he was allergic to sulfer and sulfer meds as well and ws worried about taking epi(cant remember if it was epi or havoc though) and that it could possibly give him an allergic reaction...well Dr came in and mentioned something about how the Sulfur was bonded on there and would not detatch and he should be fine, but to start at a low dose if he tried it and go from there to see how he reacted. well the guy came back later and said he was doing fine with epi and has gone as high as 30mg without ANY allerigc reaction leading him to belive the DR was correct and the sulfur must not be freed.

Now this leads me to my realization HERE on this topic. PA is saying that by losing the sulfur then THAT would cause one to have a DMT fragmentation pattern (he mentioned it would take a chemical AND the heat from the injection port to make this happen), wich means hes relying on the exact thing that would cause an allergic reaction in this guy to recreate what hes done in the lab.

This being said

1. Aspire Im pretty sure youll be fine trying Epi but let me find this thread first to console you on the fact if you like, considering someone in your same condition was just fine.

and

2. I highly doubt that this chemical and heat induced reaction used to detatch the sulfur creating DMT's fragmentation pattern (funny he just mentions the pattern and not the actual compound, who knows what else can make this pattern anyways) actually happens in the body as well, otherwise this guy who used it would have been in a world of hurt.

:goodpost: Awesome! Now that I see your posting that's exactly what Dr.D said in the thread I was searching for & couldn't find, now I remember. The same thing - IF Epi didn't have the Sulfur bond attached it could possibly convert to DMT. Thank God, thanks to Poopy there'll be world peace once again and I can get away from my damn computer. Thanks!

 

[Schism]

There's much talk in that article about methyls being damaging to ones liver, that's a scarry thought & news to me. During my last cycle of methyls I swore I'd only have one cup of beer a night, and I did...
View attachment 20064

That's hilarious brother. I think I'm in that picture.

 

[Schism]

Epi- Dry, lean, weight gains which averaged between 5-7lbs.
MAOI type effect on mood, libido loss, minimal
strength gains, and dry joints. Minimal impact on liver
values after 30-40 day cycles. Minimal impact on
lipids. Would use again, due to availability and relative
mildness of compound.

DMT- Wet, bloated weight gains which averaged between 10-
15lbs. Increased aggressive behavior, libido boost,
moderate strength gains, increased blood pressure
and estrogenic sides(i.e. nipple sensitivity). Moderate
impact on liver values after 30 day cycle, moreso when
bridged with superdrol. Moderate impact on lipids. Will not use
again due to estrogenic sides and impact on health.

Thanks for posting your experience slow.
I hope our bullsh!t has subsided.....
I'm guessing you wouldn't use again because the health impacts, is in reference to the heart stuff?

 

[EasyEJL]

wasn't the whole I vs II thing thrown out years ago?

sorta. There are definitely compounds though that seem to fit the model (as well as many that dont)

 

[slow-mun]

Thanks for posting your experience slow.
I hope our bullsh!t has subsided.....
I'm guessing you wouldn't use again because the health impacts, is in reference to the heart stuff?

Nope, all androgen usage has some potential for heart(or other organ)enlargement. I just don't genuinely like feeling ill on cycle. Both times that I ran DMT, I felt like garbage on cycle. Some people can run compounds like superdrol and DMT and be perfectly fine. I'm not so lucky.

 

[thesinner]

I think this was taken out of context.

It is difficult to TEST FOR epistane because in it degrades into desoxymethyltest during chromatography.

Just quoting myself to reitterate.

In order to test for Epistane, PA uses Gas Chromatography. In order to perform gas chromatography, the steroid needs to be heated up so hot that it vaporizes. During these conditions, the steroid becomes unstable, and degrades into DMT.

 

[poopypants]

Just quoting myself to reitterate.

In order to test for Epistane, PA uses Gas Chromatography. In order to perform gas chromatography, the steroid needs to be heated up so hot that it vaporizes. During these conditions, the steroid becomes unstable, and degrades into DMT.

not only that he says himself he uses a chemical too... dont know if thats normal procedure for gas chromatography used to help break it down... but he adds something THEN vaporizes it to get his DMT

 

[thesinner]

not only that he says himself he uses a chemical too... dont know if thats normal procedure for gas chromatography used to help break it down... but he adds something THEN vaporizes it to get his DMT

It needs to be dissolved in something. A GC machine has a little port, which in inject your test compound in with a syringe.

 

[poopypants]

It needs to be dissolved in something. A GC machine has a little port, which in inject your test compound in with a syringe.

wouldnt that just be something like alchohol?

 

[thesinner]

yep

 

[maynehood171]

All gear and PH's have a possibility of raising BP & cholesterol, but NOT enlarging the heart. The enlargement of the heart & LVH is due to certain compounds binding to the androgen receptors in the heart. Example a compund like OT BARELY binds to any hormonal androgen receptors, let alone the ones in the heart. Therefore it would cause BP & lipid raising but not additional heart issues like some products.

Thanks for the response...thought this thread topic was history for a bit though turned into very good information...thanks guys

 

[jmh80]

I agree with what someone else said here, i will never use Epistane and ive said that before because whether or not this or that is true about what has been said about the product, Im gonna just stay away because its not worth it to find out really. Im sorry but IBE just has a terrible rep now, honestly.

If you have Epi - holla. We can maybe make a deal bro.

 

[warnerve]

If you read further down the page the article says that DMT would likely test positive due to its "methyltestosterone signature."

I'm very familiar with that site

ahhh thank you. i remembered reading a bunch of stuff about dmt used for doping and equated that with it being undetectable. if its gonna make you piss hot, then that's some dopey doping right there

for what it's worth, i ran epidrol and found it to be dry, and ran the generic labz pheramax with xmass and found it to be ridiculously wet, although that could be the xmass too

 

[jmh80]

What effects did you get from which product?


CROWLER

Hemaguno - nothing. Total crap.

Epithin-E - great pumps, strength, gym effects. No increase in libido or mood. Took 10 (maybe 20) more mgs per day to match the gym effects of Epi

Epi - best I've taken. 'nuff said. MassFX gave me a similar attitude boost - but not as much as Epi. I felt like a million bucks on that. A bit more vascularity than Epithin. I have some veins in my biceps that are now permanent that I didn't have before Epi. Awesome strength increases - slightly more than MFX. Pretty darn good libido increases - best I've taken for a hormone (I will say I didn't take 4-AD on it's own though).

I also have Epidrol and Methyl-E. (Dsade needs to run a big sale on Havoc for about $32 and I'll buy - that's the only reason I haven't bought it.)

 

[aspire210]

ahhh thank you. i remembered reading a bunch of stuff about dmt used for doping and equated that with it being undetectable. if its gonna make you piss hot, then that's some dopey doping right there

We need to know how much is turned into methyl-test before we assume you would test hot, since SOME methyl-test does occur naturally in the body. Just like SOME nadrolone and dht does.

 

[pudzian2]

I think that if anabolic androgenic steroids had such a risky and profound effect on the heart....there would be a lot more talk about this, and a lot more people with enlarged hearts and low BP. dont forget the body produces test which is a class I steroid. I dont think it is consistently enlarging our hearts.

 

[Ziquor]

I think that if anabolic androgenic steroids had such a risky and profound effect on the heart....there would be a lot more talk about this, and a lot more people with enlarged hearts and low BP. dont forget the body produces test which is a class I steroid. I dont think it is consistently enlarging our hearts.

Test doesn't bind to the androgen receptors on the heart which is where the damage comes from, not all androgens do. The only one I seen proof in studies that does is DMT/Pheraplex.

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