any REAL vasodilator supps?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by CDMMA View Post
    lol @ the first half of ****tail being blocked out.

    Olive leaf extract and taurine are both solid choices, as is agmatine and nitrates.

    It's not absolutely necessary to cut out all pre-workouts with the thought that caffeine will raise your blood pressure (assuming that is your thought), as exercise induced vasodilation negates caffeine's capacity to cause vasoconstriction, and while there generally are other ingredients in preworkouts that can increase your blood pressure at rest, many preworkouts on the market include vasodilators with the ability to reduce your blood pressure. I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless you notice a large spike in your blood pressure when using a certain pre.



    Arginine gets bad rap due to the fact it's generally marketed as a NO enhancer, when in fact it is not.
    yeah, honestly, i never noticed an increase in blood pressure while on PWO's. my BP has always been borderline, so everytime id start a new pwo id check it every couple weeks and never had a problem. i guess i just assumed i should stay away from them because of a possible spike right after taking them coupled with the increase in BP you get while working out, as i always checked mine several hours after working out/the pwo was out of my system.


  2. High dosed Coq10 lowers BP as well but costs $$$ compared to some of the other options.

    I've read Hawthorne berry first raises BP before it lowers it. Couldn't find what thread i read it in but I remember they posted some kind of research on the subject. I had BP issues for a while too and used creatine nitrate 1.8g and CoQ10 200mg/day. Beet root extract is another nitrate source too, may be cheaper than creatine nitrate since you can't get it in bulk anymore.
    :blindfold:
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  3. Deff give the kwick carb/bcaa a shot and some hemavol!
    iForce Nutrition Representative
    iTrain. iCompete. iDominate…iForce!
    www.iforcenutrition.com

  4. SNS Agmatine has probably given me the best vascularity out of any single ingredient I've used. That said, nitrates and citrulline are also fantastic pump ingredients, so pick your poison.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by CDMMA

    lol @ the first half of ****tail being blocked out.

    Olive leaf extract and taurine are both solid choices, as is agmatine and nitrates.

    It's not absolutely necessary to cut out all pre-workouts with the thought that caffeine will raise your blood pressure (assuming that is your thought), as exercise induced vasodilation negates caffeine's capacity to cause vasoconstriction, and while there generally are other ingredients in preworkouts that can increase your blood pressure at rest, many preworkouts on the market include vasodilators with the ability to reduce your blood pressure. I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless you notice a large spike in your blood pressure when using a certain pre.

    Arginine gets bad rap due to the fact it's generally marketed as a NO enhancer, when in fact it is not.
    I take it for the bp lowering effect primarily and as a gh booster secondarily
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  6. Quick List of Vasodilators:
    insulin/high glycemic carbs
    icariin
    AAKG
    Ag Sulfate
    osthole (makes some people ill though)
    olive leaf extract
    citrulline
    cre nitrate or any other nitrate
    fish oil
    PDE5 Inhibitors (Cialis, Viagra, etc.)
    forskolin (even though it counteracts insulin @ cellular level)
    grape seed extract
    pycogenol
    arginine in general
    L-Norvaline
    Niacin
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  7. Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Quick List of Vasodilators:
    insulin/high glycemic carbs
    icariin
    AAKG
    Ag Sulfate
    osthole (makes some people ill though)
    olive leaf extract
    citrulline
    cre nitrate or any other nitrate
    fish oil
    PDE5 Inhibitors (Cialis, Viagra, etc.)
    forskolin (even though it counteracts insulin @ cellular level)
    grape seed extract
    pycogenol
    arginine in general
    L-Norvaline
    Niacin

    so based on this, i have come up with a stack:

    Viagra + Bio Mend + Fish Oil + Free Test + Creatine Nitrate. bam. ill be pumped as heck and have a boner for a week.
    Performance Labs Product Specialist


  8. I would leave the Viagra out of it- too many vasdilators can cut your BP too low= day ruiner- see the thread about the guy who thought his face was going to explode
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  9. Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Don't nitrates have some blood pressure lowering affect?

    Also, I learned the hard way that Perform lowers bp. By itself it is safe, just don't stack it w other bp lowering supps. Lol
    ^^^ It was this guy right hurrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    I would leave the Viagra out of it- too many vasdilators can cut your BP too low= day ruiner- see the thread about the guy who thought his face was going to explode
    I think he was just kidding but if not, i wouldn't do mix viagra w/ CN either. Sounds like a brew for a massive headache, fainting spell or in fl3x's case FACE EXPLOSION.
    :blindfold:

  10. Quote Originally Posted by rms80
    I would leave the Viagra out of it- too many vasdilators can cut your BP too low= day ruiner- see the thread about the guy who thought his face was going to explode
    Huh??? Hehe
    Use code "fl3x10" to get a free shirt with your purchase at Mind and Muscle

  11. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    I take it for the bp lowering effect primarily and as a gh booster secondarily
    And it fulfills neither of those roles.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Quick List of Vasodilators:
    insulin/high glycemic carbs
    icariin
    AAKG
    Ag Sulfate
    osthole (makes some people ill though)
    olive leaf extract
    citrulline
    cre nitrate or any other nitrate
    fish oil
    PDE5 Inhibitors (Cialis, Viagra, etc.)
    forskolin (even though it counteracts insulin @ cellular level)
    grape seed extract
    pycogenol
    arginine in general
    L-Norvaline
    Niacin
    Arginine and AAKG increase muscle blood volume, not vasodilation. Pump =/= vasodilation...same applies for other ingredients on your list.

  13. i really appreciate all the help guys. ive honestly never looked into agmatine nor really knew what it was before you guys mentioned it. also, i remember hearing some stuff about 'dangers' of nitrates in creatine and stuff but, again, didnt do my own research until now.

    im thinking i may give c4 a shot as it has nitrates and it serves my energy need, throw some agmatine into it for even better pumps/dilation, then run about 3g of taurine a day alongside some olive leaf extract.

    thanks again for the help

  14. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    And it fulfills neither of those roles.
    I have high blood pressure 150+/90+ then take 20g of arginine and it drops to 124/70 .... I'd say that proves the BP lowering effect,,, and read many articles in Google scholar that report significant gh blood level boosts when taken in a 2:1 ratio with ornithine at levels over
    15g a day..... I'll believe Google scholar over tests done by sites selling stuff

  15. http://www.vrp.com/amino-acids/growt...the-literature

    Skip down to the paragraph on arginine and ornithine ... arginine by itself has mixed results,,, but when stacked 2:1 with ornithine you get results

  16. yeah it was a joke
    Performance Labs Product Specialist


  17. How many articles should I post? There are over 50 years worth!

  18. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    I have high blood pressure 150+/90+ then take 20g of arginine and it drops to 124/70 .... I'd say that proves the BP lowering effect,,, and read many articles in Google scholar that report significant gh blood level boosts when taken in a 2:1 ratio with ornithine at levels over
    15g a day..... I'll believe Google scholar over tests done by sites selling stuff
    Ok, 20g/day may have an effect on vasodilation by working against its low oral bioavailability. Most people dose 3-6g/day which does nothing.

    However, arginine attenuates the GH response to exercise.

  19. Oh, and all of your articles lack scientific relevance. If you'd like see the effects of arginine on NO in exercising individuals...well, you'll find one study in favor and a TON against.

  20. I am new to the body building scene, but I've studied health and nutrition for 20+ years..... my main focus, until recently, was noottopics and growth hormone for the anti aging effects.

  21. Show me the articles,,, show me proof

  22. Hello my old nemesis lol. How can you say arginine does not induce vasodilation? Vasodilation via arginine is pretty much the only reason we have eNOS. I would agree that many preparations of arginine would upset your stomach by the time it was beneficial, but it will induce vasodilation.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Arginine and AAKG increase muscle blood volume, not vasodilation. Pump =/= vasodilation...same applies for other ingredients on your list.
    ***PES Representative***
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com

  23. Psst....run!

    Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    Show me the articles,,, show me proof
    ***PES Representative***
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com

  24. I'm always up for real discussions ... these sites frustrate me when people say someone is wrong without backing it up
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