Short cycles, some thoughts

[blown_stang]

Fort Dodge EQ has undecylenate ester. This is not ideal for a short cycle.

As it turns out, there's only ~6.5wks worth is available to me. Will this be a waste of time? Should I just wait until more is available? Would be stacked w/ test prop most likely. Is a 6wk test enanthate / eq cycle worth doing?

Edit: Also, any idea about British Dragon eq?

 

[size]

Will this be a waste of time? Should I just wait until more is available? Would be stacked w/ test prop most likely. Is a 6wk test enanthate / eq cycle worth doing?
Edit: Also, any idea about British Dragon eq?

You have to decide if it is worth your time, money, and body. This entire thread is about short cycles and using the drugs that will have the best advantage over the course of a short period of time. So do you think test enanthate is a good idea?

British Dragon products are good.

 

[exnihilo]

Pretty sweet there jminis. Long cycles definately aren't for everyone and in particular I could see them being an issue with the older guys.

To avoid the mid cycle stall, I am running my current cycle in two phases... I put on almost 40lbs in the first five weeks with about 15lbs fat gain, and switched gears when the tren e fully kicked in. Now at just over 7 weeks in I've shed the 15lbs of fat that I picked up while on dbol, and I have another 4 weeks or so of tren to cut on before I have to normalize my diet in preparation for pct. Rock hard and vascular 265 here I come

I can't stress the important of swale's hcg protocol enough btw, the boys are running at full size at this point. We'll see how the recovery is - I've got my fingers crossed.

 

[jminis]

Pretty sweet there jminis. Long cycles definately aren't for everyone and in particular I could see them being an issue with the older guys.

To avoid the mid cycle stall, I am running my current cycle in two phases... I put on almost 40lbs in the first five weeks with about 15lbs fat gain, and switched gears when the tren e fully kicked in. Now at just over 7 weeks in I've shed the 15lbs of fat that I picked up while on dbol, and I have another 4 weeks or so of tren to cut on before I have to normalize my diet in preparation for pct. Rock hard and vascular 265 here I come

I can't stress the important of swale's hcg protocol enough btw, the boys are running at full size at this point. We'll see how the recovery is - I've got my fingers crossed.

Damn bro that's a lot of weight to put on. Good luck with the rest of your cycle and keep us informed on how everything goes. And yes swales protocol for longer cycles is important and keep the nutz happy.

 

[blown_stang]

Generally speaking, how long of a cycle would warrant the use of HCG? In almost all of the "sample cycles" I see clomid + nolva only. But some articles I read say that HCG is a "necessary part of any cycle".

 

[jminis]

Generally speaking, how long of a cycle would warrant the use of HCG? In almost all of the "sample cycles" I see clomid + nolva only. But some articles I read say that HCG is a "necessary part of any cycle".

Not every cycle. You could and it def wouldn't hurt but anything under 6 weeks I think your fine without it. Even 8 I think would be cool but you'd be pushin it and it would depend on what your running. Things like deca, tren, m1t, ect... in a 8 weeker and I would run HCG. It's cheap and makes recovery easier.

 

[blown_stang]

Not every cycle. You could and it def wouldn't hurt but anything under 6 weeks I think your fine without it. Even 8 I think would be cool but you'd be pushin it and it would depend on what your running. Things like deca, tren, m1t, ect... in a 8 weeker and I would run HCG. It's cheap and makes recovery easier.

I see. This would be test+eq for approx. 8wks, with dbol for the first 3-4wks. We'll look at HCG.

 

[size]

Has anyone else become a follower?

N4cer...results?

 

[Beelzebub]

i'm intend to try it for myself this summer, testsusp100mg for 40 days along with superdrol at 20mg.

 

[N4cer]

Gained 10, kept 8. That was with the bold prop making me too sick to eat properly. Already did my PCT, and started back up.
Suspension + prop/tren + dbol + 4OHT Cyp (AI properties)
transitioning to
NPP + Winny or Oral Turinabol

 

[size]

Gained 10, kept 8. That was with the bold prop making me too sick to eat properly.

It is unfortunate that bold prop seems to have such nasty effects. It it such a tempting drug.

 

[Beelzebub]

It is unfortunate that bold prop seems to have such nasty effects. It it such a tempting drug.

don't mean to butt into ya'lls conversation, but bold prop didn't do any damage to me. no bad side effects. guess it depends on the person.

 

[jminis]

don't mean to butt into ya'lls conversation, but bold prop didn't do any damage to me. no bad side effects. guess it depends on the person.

I think the big issue was pain at the injection site. Beelze did you not experience any? I know most said the pain was ridiculous

 

[Beelzebub]

nah, i was doing 86mg ed injects and after a couple days, there was no pain anymore. ran it for a little over 9 weeks. it was mixed with testprop100 and trenace50, not sure if that had an effect on it or not.

 

[N4cer]

Lucky dog. Gave me test flu EVERY time for 2 weeks.

 

[LCSULLA]

N4cer,
YGPM bro

 

[jminis]

nah, i was doing 86mg ed injects and after a couple days, there was no pain anymore. ran it for a little over 9 weeks. it was mixed with testprop100 and trenace50, not sure if that had an effect on it or not.

You are lucky most haven't had success with it. I know a few UG's stopped carrying it because no one could stand the ****. Either way your a lucky SOB. take care J

 

[Interficium]

Bold prop seems to be disliked by most, but what about bold acetate? Anyone tried it in short cycles?

 

[Manu20]

Jminis I would like ur opinion on this...what do u think about a 5-6 weeker using transdermal test base and tren base...not quite sure yet on the dosages but this sounds interesting and I like this idea better than longer cycles.

 

[size]

what do u think about a 5-6 weeker using transdermal test base and tren base...not quite sure yet on the dosages.

This combo will work well. I would aim for 75-100mg of test daily and 35-60mg tren daily.

 

[kwantam]

OK, I'm having trouble telling if this is base, prop, etc. It's all in Spanish. Fort Dodge brand eq, 50mg/ml. :-/

Heh, Fort Dodge. That's my home town.

Man, I never thought about the source possibilities. I know dozens of people who work at the labs there...

(NO THIS IS NOT A SOURCE OFFER DON'T CONTACT ME!)

-kwantam

 

[Manu20]

This combo will work well. I would aim for 75-100mg of test daily and 35-60mg tren daily.

Thanks for the reply size...those numbers look good. I am going for a recomp/lean mass cycle out of this...would u add any orals to this, I was thinking about winny but I dont know if I want to deal with the joint pain.

 

[size]

I am going for a recomp/lean mass cycle out of this...would u add any orals to this, I was thinking about winny but I dont know if I want to deal with the joint pain.

Adding an oral is fine if you want to but it is not needed. Oxandrolone would be the #1 choice in my opinion.

 

[theseus]

I thought the idea of short cycles was to blast, and get in and out without too much damage to your HTPA.

I just did two short cycles, one 15 days and one 30 days.
The 15 day one went much better then the 30 day one IMO because I had literally no crash post cycle, and that was my main reason for doing short cycles. When I did the 30 day one, I was depressed and lost interest in eating and training, and to me thats what I was trying to avoid. I ended up losing all my gains on both cycles because of this.
However, the 15 day cycle allowed me to gain 4-5lbs that I was easily able to hold on to, and thats what im after.

 

[Beowulf]

I thought the idea of short cycles was to blast, and get in and out without too much damage to your HTPA.

I just did two short cycles, one 15 days and one 30 days.
The 15 day one went much better then the 30 day one IMO because I had literally no crash post cycle, and that was my main reason for doing short cycles. When I did the 30 day one, I was depressed and lost interest in eating and training, and to me thats what I was trying to avoid. I ended up losing all my gains on both cycles because of this.
However, the 15 day cycle allowed me to gain 4-5lbs that I was easily able to hold on to, and thats what im after.

What were the cycles of?

 

[theseus]

Test Prop :150mg/ed
Dianabol : 50mg/ed

Nolva PCT : 40/40/20/20

 

[Beowulf]

Thanks, good to know.

 

[theseus]

Just an update. Ive been off for about a month now since my last blast of 4 weeks on, and I found that its still too much. Ive tried (2) longer cycles of 8 weeks, and I crash with depression/anxiety lack of motivation etc with each one. So im going to be experimenting with day amounts until I hit the right amount of time for me. This one will be 17days on cycle. I have done a short 14 day one in the past, and I experieced NO crash whatsoever post cycle. Not even a drop in strength, and maybe only a loss of 1-2lbs post cycle. BUt I was taking dbol, so there ya go.

Im 240 10% @ 5'10'' 21 years old. I will be getting my BF hydro tested in 2-3 weeks in lab, so I can be more specific then.

Ill be taking 200mg B-6 ed

Day 1-3: Tren Ace 100mg NPP 100mg
Day 4-11: Tren Ace 100mg NPP 100mg Winny 100mg
Day 12-17: Tren Ace 75mg NPP 75mg Winny 50mg
Day 18-23: 50mg Nolva
Day 24-30: 40mg Nolva
Day 31-40: 25mg nolva
Day 40-xx: Off everything until I feel fully recovered. At least 10 days

I will more then likely run 80mg of IGF from day 5-35 as well to help with recovery.

Should I bother with femera during my cycle, because estrogen doesnt seem like it would be an issue at only 2 weeks.

 

[exnihilo]

Just an update. Ive been off for about a month now since my last blast of 4 weeks on, and I found that its still too much. Ive tried (2) longer cycles of 8 weeks, and I crash with depression/anxiety lack of motivation etc with each one. So im going to be experimenting with day amounts until I hit the right amount of time for me. This one will be 17days on cycle. I have done a short 14 day one in the past, and I experieced NO crash whatsoever post cycle. Not even a drop in strength, and maybe only a loss of 1-2lbs post cycle. BUt I was taking dbol, so there ya go.

Im 240 10% @ 5'10'' 21 years old. I will be getting my BF hydro tested in 2-3 weeks in lab, so I can be more specific then.

Ill be taking 200mg B-6 ed

Day 1-3: Tren Ace 100mg NPP 100mg
Day 4-11: Tren Ace 100mg NPP 100mg Winny 100mg
Day 12-17: Tren Ace 75mg NPP 75mg Winny 50mg
Day 18-23: 50mg Nolva
Day 24-30: 40mg Nolva
Day 31-40: 25mg nolva
Day 40-xx: Off everything until I feel fully recovered. At least 10 days

I will more then likely run 80mg of IGF from day 5-35 as well to help with recovery.

Should I bother with femera during my cycle, because estrogen doesnt seem like it would be an issue at only 2 weeks.

Do you use HCG? I would say if you have such massive problems with recovery and you're using HCG you might try using androgens to assist cutting rather than for putting on size, that would probably be more useful. Just do 2 weeks on and cut pretty hard, one month off like you have planned where you eat hypercalorically (just keep it clean and don't overdo it).

 

[jminis]

I think you should run your cycles in anabolic/androgenic phases, doing this has allowed me to run 30-40days cycles with very little shutdown and minimal PCT blues

 

[size]

Thought I would bring this back up b/c I have gotten a fair amount of positive feedback from utilizing this approach. Numerous experienced guys have contacted me detailing good gains and a much better overall physical feeling especially when entering, during, and after post cycle.


For those of you who have not read this thread, I encourage you to do so.

 

[ryanbodybuilder]

yea size I am starting to put this theory to work this year....at least in 2006.....especially for bulking cycles..since I stop growing around week 6 anyways.....although I believe cutting cycles should be longer..thats why this summer I will run an eq/test/m4ohn cutter all at low doses with strict diet! good info here bros

 

[jminis]

Size you know I love these cycles and I've had great success with them. Anyone who wants some solid gains, avoid sides and very easy PCT's these cycles are for you.

 

[Beowulf]

Everyone has been on an ALR bashing streak b/c of the Methoxy TRN, so I think it is important that we consider the fact that while I doubt ALR invented the idea of short cycles, he has exhaustively laid them out and is a huge proponent. One of his main reasons for this is health benefits.

 

[N4cer]

Yeah, I agree. And for what it's worth, I hear that the couple of people I know who tried the MethloxyTRN loved it.
Ya always get bashed when you're on top is how I see it. I mean, who believes RSOC --- I mean BK --- anyway?

 

[enimity]

What role if any would deca or eq play in a short cycle of around 6 weeks?

 

[ryanbodybuilder]

eq and deca wouldnt play a role at all.....unless you use bold prop or NPP

 

[N4cer]

Sure it could. Just megadose the **** out of them the first 2 weeks, get what they offer while active, and then they clear. But yes, NPP is a much better option. And there's no short-estered bold that won't make you sorry you bought it. It all hurts if it's real.

 

[Mess]

Ok guys, couldnt enjoy a thread more and its for sure worth trying and i will in 3 weeks time, but the only thing i have access to is test e. (besides deca which i dont prefer).
i was wondering if a 4 weeks cycle of test e. would be good especially if i front load at first week with 1000-1500 mg ??
your thoughts and advise will be highly appreciated.

 

[size]

Ok guys, couldnt enjoy a thread more and its for sure worth trying and i will in 3 weeks time, but the only thing i have access to is test e. (besides deca which i dont prefer).
i was wondering if a 4 weeks cycle of test e. would be good especially if i front load at first week with 1000-1500 mg ??
your thoughts and advise will be highly appreciated.

You can use a longer acting ester but it my mind it is just not preferred.

 

[Grunt76]

What about doing this with the new PHs? Yeah they shut you down pretty quick, so they say. But what if one were to start ATD or UHotter 3 days before the end of the cycle just to jump-start the PCT and PCT hard?

Would it seem safe to do 4on/4off a few times before taking some serious time off? Like, for example:

4 weeks ALRI Methoxy-TRN
4 weeks PCT
4 weeks MAX LMG
4 weeks PCT
4 weeks Superdrol
6 weeks PCT
6 weeks OFF at least...

Thoughts?

 

[adrenalinaddict]

What about doing this with the new PHs? Yeah they shut you down pretty quick, so they say. But what if one were to start ATD or UHotter 3 days before the end of the cycle just to jump-start the PCT and PCT hard?

Would it seem safe to do 4on/4off a few times before taking some serious time off? Like, for example:

4 weeks ALRI Methoxy-TRN
4 weeks PCT
4 weeks MAX LMG
4 weeks PCT
4 weeks Superdrol
6 weeks PCT
6 weeks OFF at least...

Thoughts?

This is pretty common to piggyback short ph cycles. I have read of quite a few guys doing 2 in a row like this. Obvioulsy its very important to take all the proper supplements (RYR,Policosanol,Celery, etc, etc.) I am planning on piggybacking at least two like this. I did 4 weeks of SD and unfortunately got sick right into pct and lost some of my gains. I still held it remarkably well though. For being sick and not working out I was shocked at the gains retained. So I am planning on doing another 4 week stint with PP.

I dont know how many times it would be safe to do this though. I have read of guys with horrible lipid values and their levels came back relatively quick, but I think two many of these back to back would really keep your lipids screwed up for too long.

 

[Grunt76]

Hm, yes. I was beginning to contemplate doing 4 of those. That would keep me busy from January to September with the PCT, time off 'til Late december.

Or maybe doing

Jan ON
Feb PCT
Mar ON
Apr PCT
May OFF
June ON
July PCT
Aug ON
Sep PCT
Oct-Dec OFF

What do y'all thinks?

 

[Beowulf]

Hm, yes. I was beginning to contemplate doing 4 of those. That would keep me busy from January to September with the PCT, time off 'til Late december.

Or maybe doing

Jan ON
Feb PCT
Mar ON
Apr PCT
May OFF
June ON
July PCT
Aug ON
Sep PCT
Oct-Dec OFF

What do y'all thinks?

I think that would be much wiser. And if you're going to run that many cycles, make sure you get bloodwork. Before June would be perfect, especially if you get a baseline to compare it to.

 

[excalibur]

just want to let you guys know

I did a transdemal short cycle (Jminis style) before chrismas

I did 4ad (at a total of 8g and 1-testosterone (at a total of 6g) over a period of 14 days thats 1 g pro hormones/hormones a day splitt in two doses AM and PM

day -1 frontloaded with 1g dose AM and 1g dose PM
day 0-10 500mg AM and 500mg PM
day 11 400mg AM 400mg PM
day 12 300mg AM 300mg PM
day 13 200mg AM 200mg PM
day 14 100mg AM 100mg PM
day 15-28 post cycle therapy


I gained some water weigth due to the 4ad
My cals were 4-500 above maintance not mutch but I wantet a clean steady gain

before cycle I were 225 waist 39,5
last day on cycle i were 235 waist 39
last day on post cycle therapy 230 waist 38,5
now 2 weeks after post cycle therapy has ended I am still 230 and my waist is 38

strenght went upp and continued to du so post cycle therapy and even now off cycle aswell
On cycle were in training week 1 and 2
PCT were training week 3 and 4
Now off week 5-6 and is halway during week 7.

Next upp is a 8 day micro cycle of Ergomax lmg

day 0
40 mg at AM 20mg 8 houer later to saturate bloodlevels and muscles before start
day 1-8 10mgx3 at 8 houers intervals
day 9-16 post cycle therapy

This I do for obvius reasons

My WO is 2 days in a row and 2 days off in a row

Any inputs are higly welcomed

thanks

 

[theseus]

bump for anyone to share their experience with short cycles.

Im planning on doing another one shortly that will look like the following:

day1: test prop 300mg / TA:75mg ED
day 2-13: test prop 100mg/ TA:50mg ED
day 2-14: dbol: 30mg day (possibly as I like to stay away from orals)
letrozole 1mg/day

pct:
week 1: nolva 40mg / Mirt 5mg day
week 2: nolva 20mg / Mirt 5mg day
week 3: nolva 10mg

slin 8iu 2x day

starting weight should be 232 @ 9% im 5 10'

Hoping for 3-4 lb of muscle gained after the end of PCT.

Protein :460g day
Carbs 350g day
fat 70g day

 

[xtraflossy]

just want to let you guys know

I did a transdemal short cycle (Jminis style) before chrismas

I did 4ad (at a total of 8g and 1-testosterone (at a total of 6g) over a period of 14 days thats 1 g pro hormones/hormones a day splitt in two doses AM and PM

day -1 frontloaded with 1g dose AM and 1g dose PM
day 0-10 500mg AM and 500mg PM
day 11 400mg AM 400mg PM
day 12 300mg AM 300mg PM
day 13 200mg AM 200mg PM
day 14 100mg AM 100mg PM
day 15-28 post cycle therapy


I gained some water weigth due to the 4ad
My cals were 4-500 above maintance not mutch but I wantet a clean steady gain

before cycle I were 225 waist 39,5
last day on cycle i were 235 waist 39
last day on post cycle therapy 230 waist 38,5
now 2 weeks after post cycle therapy has ended I am still 230 and my waist is 38

strenght went upp and continued to du so post cycle therapy and even now off cycle aswell
On cycle were in training week 1 and 2
post cycle therapy were training week 3 and 4
Now off week 5-6 and is halway during week 7.

Next upp is a 8 day micro cycle of Ergomax lmg

day 0
40 mg at AM 20mg 8 houer later to saturate bloodlevels and muscles before start
day 1-8 10mgx3 at 8 houers intervals
day 9-16 post cycle therapy

This I do for obvius reasons

My WO is 2 days in a row and 2 days off in a row

Any inputs are higly welcomed

thanks

Bump on the short cycle... (micro ergo cycle?):blink:

 

[size]

Bump on the short cycle... (micro ergo cycle?):blink:

Not too sure about the micro ergo cycle(8 days is too short in my opinion) but in general I think one should be able to make decent keepable gains over short periods of time. This is especailly the case if one sets up for such a period.

 

[xtraflossy]

How do you mean "set up" for such a time??
I have yet find myself waken' up in a pool of my own sweat, missing my wallet and On cycle

 

[size]

How do you mean "set up" for such a time??

There are a few ways that one could set up for following such a cycle. One of which would be strategic deconditioning. Also set up in the sense that everything is in line such as training, nutrition, and rest so one can make the most out of the short period of time.