IBE is in TROUBLE!!!!!!!

[poopypants]

Did you read the email you sent? Seriously?

What nobody seems to understand is that there is no possible way for you to say that you know for 100% what the compound is. That goes for any of the tests. It can only be a guess. I would love to know how you got two different results when two different companies used the same supplier for the material. Release those test results, watch them get tore apart.

Sadly, I can't continue this fight next week. I'll be taking a new ownership role in a company.

what happened to your non-compete??? or is this suppoesed to be an unaffiliated with the industry comp?? either way your eating your own words now too bud. and you lit the fuse to watch all this blow now your just gonna wallk away and start somethin new??? im SO sure your not going to be competing with any of these comps.... so sad.

as a buyer of BN.com your welcome for those dollars in your pocket but who gives you right to destroy OUR industry?

edit: what happened to your 3rd party testing of epi BTW???? sure its not gonna be released now eh?

 

[ShapeUP]

what happened to your non-compete??? or is this suppoesed to be an unaffiliated with the industry comp?? either way your eating your own words now too bud. and you lit the fuse to watch all this blow now your just gonna wallk away and start somethin new??? im SO sure your not going to be competing with any of these comps.... so sad.

as a buyer of BN.com your welcome for those dollars in your pocket but who gives you right to destroy OUR industry?

edit: what happened to your 3rd party testing of epi BTW???? sure its not gonna be released now eh?

No he conveniently can't make it when the results come out.

Jp, idc about all this really, I just know both products work and it is sad that they could soon be taken away, I for one was looking forward to using one. guess I'll buy whatever is out there and use it all at once to test for quality.
:woohoo: :numbered: :run: :fool2:

 

[jerlion777]

what happened to your non-compete??? or is this suppoesed to be an unaffiliated with the industry comp?? either way your eating your own words now too bud. and you lit the fuse to watch all this blow now your just gonna wallk away and start somethin new??? im SO sure your not going to be competing with any of these comps.... so sad.

as a buyer of BN.com your welcome for those dollars in your pocket but who gives you right to destroy OUR industry?

edit: what happened to your 3rd party testing of epi BTW???? sure its not gonna be released now eh?

so true now that mm or 1fast400 is so timely going back into the industry. he will not follow thru w/these so called results.should have ordered this epi bottle long time ago,now he cant find one to test how convenient.:toofunny:

 

[kwyckemynd00]

feel free to rep me for this NEWs flash!! :thumbsup:

Sorry, I dont' have a neg option.

 

[jmh80]

Well havoc came out first,so is it correct that they brought the product to the industry.Now ibe copied havoc,and tried to cash in on their market.They did this and are now trying to get rpn taken off the market.If ibe copied the exact same formula then nobody comes out on top..If ibe did copy the formula Why the F*ck would they send a message like that??? Maybe epistane is legit..and they do infact have a different compound...If so many people are reporting good results with the products then something really isn't making sence here...:think:

God d*mn.

Let's not let the facts get in the way of the issues.

Holy f*cking hell. This post is GD retarded.

Havoc and Epistane were discovered by the same damn person. NO ONE COPIED ANYONE!!!

I'll say again s-l-o-w-l-y (in case you are from West Virginia):

NO ONE COPIED ANYTHING!

 

[yeahright]

Havoc came back with the correct MW of what the compound is, per PA's test. Epistane didn't. That is what started all this.

Actually PA says Havoc has the wrong molecular weight as well. He just said the difference might be explainable.

 

[TripDog]

Maybe i'm talkin out of my ass here but i've heard nothing but positive reviews about Havoc and IBE's Epistane, why the hell should i care if it's 2 compounds instead of one if i'm getting awesome results without sides?

Yes it would be just HORRIBLE if they slipped me some var, lol

thats what i was trying to get across,some are a little too eager to just respond some bullsh*t,rather than seeing the point of some responses..end of the day they are way safer than the m1t days.We can fight all we want about nothing.Point being I support both companies..Ibe is without a doubt one of the top companies imo

 

[JohnnyBGood]

What's with the WV comment? It's not such a bad place up here. We're not all inbred you know. That's alright-I'm well aware of the stereotypical, uninformed rumors about WV. What's not to love about the state where the state flower is a satellite dish?

 

[RedwolfWV]

I'll say again s-l-o-w-l-y (in case you are from West Virginia):

OUCH!!!

Edit: Hey Johnny... where at in WV you at??

 

[JohnnyBGood]

In the eastern panhandle. What about you bro?

 

[RedwolfWV]

Just south of Morgantown

 

[JohnnyBGood]

Cool man. Did you see WVU win that basketball game at the buzzer tonight?

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Actually PA says Havoc has the wrong molecular weight as well. He just said the difference might be explainable.

He said the results were what could reasonably have been expected--but he stressed his results didn't mean that the product was unequivocally what it claimed to be. He just said his GC/MS results were to be expected if it were as they claimed.

 

[TripDog]

have you been around ???? havoc may have been released first but epi has been in the works for much longer.... and was being aplha tested... did havoc do so????

maybe you mis-read my post,or cant read...I said in this post....still with me....ok...that havoc was released first to the public.END of STORY...I am not saying anyone devoloped anything before anyone.....

 

[RedwolfWV]

Cool man. Did you see WVU win that basketball game at the buzzer tonight?

Didn't see it, but heard the last couple of minutes on the radio at work.

 

[TripDog]

God d*mn.

Let's not let the facts get in the way of the issues.

Holy f*cking hell. This post is GD retarded.

Havoc and Epistane were discovered by the same damn person. NO ONE COPIED ANYONE!!!

I'll say again s-l-o-w-l-y (in case you are from West Virginia):

NO ONE COPIED ANYTHING!

in the first line i stated."so is it correct"........as to ask for information....I did not say i think anything.....:think:

 

[darius]

Where are the test results? Anyone know what time they will be up?

 

[TripDog]

I love this board..i have no problem with anyone.Lets remember that we "All" love this board..it helps me out a ton...I thank all those who give me positive feedback...I'm just here to learn,lead,and teach.!!!

 

[1Fast400]

Island Supplements said the product was in stock when the lab ordered it. They didn't have it in stock and it is now on backorder. I am on IBE's forums and have offered 80 bucks for a bottle from a board member. I think he's a mod overthere actually. IBE will not let me post the results from testing his product, so I'm at a loss of what to do.

If IBE will give me permission to post the results from a bottle purchased directly from a consumer (assuming it is factory sealed), I will gladly pay 100.00 to ANY customer that can do this. I'll overnight them a check with a box included, preaddressed for the lab. They will simply open the box, put the item in and hand it right back to the driver. It will go straight to the lab. This is all I know to do. I've posted the email from RTP stating island is backordered. If someone can find an online store that has it in stock I WILL GLADLY DO THE TESTING. If I can't find a store with it, I will have to purchase it from a consumer unless someone has a better option.

 

[1Fast400]

Realize since I can't purchase it from a store, I have to have IBE's permission to post the results. Otherwise I'm opening myself up to a lawsuit and I won't do that.

Is there someone who is trusted on this board that has a sealed bottle? Someone IBE would trust? Like I said, I'll gladly pay 100 bucks for this to get this in motion. In no way shape or form am I trying to NOT do this testing. I just don't want to get sued. I'll do it right if I'm going to do it.

 

[TripDog]

Realize since I can't purchase it from a store, I have to have IBE's permission to post the results. Otherwise I'm opening myself up to a lawsuit and I won't do that.

Is there someone who is trusted on this board that has a sealed bottle? Someone IBE would trust? Like I said, I'll gladly pay 100 bucks for this to get this in motion. In no way shape or form am I trying to NOT do this testing. I just don't want to get sued. I'll do it right if I'm going to do it.

I give you props for stepping up bro,there are many here that could help u out....I find it strange that ibe isn't selling their own product???

 

[bkprice]

You have proved you are bias with your posts. I would not blame them for not allowing someone who has done all he can to embarrass and degrade there company at every turn. You might be a nice guy absence of this situation, but you should at least, from a practical point of view, understand there concerns with you doing the test.

 

[darius]

Have you guys seen this?

MOD EDIT: Uh..NO.

Another Epi/Havoc product.

 

[1Fast400]

BK, what part of this do you not understand.

On one account you have IBE saying test our stuff, we have no issues. Their product is backordered everywhere and I can't find it. The only recourse is to find a customer with a bottle. This is a MOD at their own board. He has a sealed bottle. The bottle would be shipped straight from him to the lab. I'd still never touch it. Instead of it coming from a store, it's coming from a customer, who they trust.

If they have nothing to worry about, according to them, then what is the problem?

 

[TiTanUp]

Test Results????

 

[diminuendo]

Libel actually.

 

[skull]

you know this is just plain ridiculous--this ones gonna test it but cant get it --the other ones already tested it but cant post result --another is gonna sue for slander ---its to the point now that even if I see test results they will be in doubt--I have bought both brands and will have my own first hand experience on which is better--so untill then SAVE THE DRAMA FOR YOUR MOMMA!:smite: :smite: :dance: :dance: :woohoo: :fool2:

 

[Jayhawkk]

Well Mike the reasoning you're using to discredit IBE is the same reasoning used against you by others that you have problems with. IBE may or may not be a lot of things and the same thing goes for you but most of the opinions are based off some so-called inside information and gathered intelligence that never pans out fully 100%.

Someone could say your grand standing was done knowing from the beginning that the lack of inventory excuse was to be used at the last minute. Do we really know this for sure or would it mostly based off of past issues, complaints etc that still wouldn't be 100% in either direction.

Could we call the lab and verify that this was set up and in place and that they indeed tried to place the order but the out of stock problem was the reason as to why no testing was done?

 

[1Fast400]

If bobo will give me his email address I'll gladly forward the info to him from the lab. I would prefer, for obvious reasons, to not post the labs contact info and have 100 internet guys calling and bugging them. You've been cool headed during most of this, shoot me an email: [email protected] and you can see for yourself.

BTW, I have a STRONG feeling we won't see the 60/40 results posted by IBE. IBE if you're reading this, it had to SUCK to get that email this morning didn't it.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I don't want it, don't want to see it, don't want to smell it!

Not it!

 

[1Fast400]

haha, understood. Wuss!

 

[Dwight Schrute]

haha, understood. Wuss!

:dance:

 

[size]

I don't want it, don't want to see it, don't want to smell it!

Not it!

Not surprising. :hammer:

 

[rpen22]

People wonder why I think IBE lies so much. You have lake posting on their forums that I still own 1fast and BN. Now, I've been out of this industry for almost a year. Everyone knows that. When I KNOW he is lying about things like this, I have to think he is lying about other things.

You do know that you quoted Grunt when you were talking about Lake saying you still owned a chunk of the businesses, right?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Guys, I would you ask to keep emails between individuals outside the forum. Thanks.

 

[1Fast400]

You are rpenn, I stand corrected. I saw it quoted with lakes name above it. I'm so used to him saying off the wall stuff, I just jumped there. Good catch.

 

[bioman]

*yawn*

*sips coffee and catches up on the supplement soap opera*


Mornin' kids! I see the world has not ended yet...although you did manage to get Bobo out of hybernation somehow.

 

[grantr]

why weren't the test results posted yet? IBE said they would be last night

edit: check this out: some test results on havoc - Test on Havoc - Bodybuilding.com Forums

 

[jminis]

*yawn*

*sips coffee and catches up on the supplement soap opera*


Mornin' kids! I see the world has not ended yet...although you did manage to get Bobo out of hybernation somehow.

Not yet Bio This needs to be done with though. THis is why the govt steps in all the time. Not referring to either company but an industry left to self regulate seem to always self destruct.

 

[size]

edit: check this out: some test results on havoc - Test on Havoc - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Good link and find.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

That doesn't look to good for whoever interpreted the results for IBE. The high temps of the GC chamber could easily cause some degradation and/or changes.

But, this also brings up more points:
1) Just because the two compounds have the same MW doesn't mean they are the same--NMR data would be needed to clear this up a bit more.
2) If a functional group dissociated in the GC chamber, would there be a third peak?
-- Looking at the MF the alcohol and the oxirane could easily react with water at those temps and the alcohol could easily dissociate as water, so this could eliminate my concern for #2 because water would probably come off from the 17b ol, and the epithio could go from a 2a,3a-epithio to a 2a,3a-dithiol, which could possibly pop off as well. That 17b alcohol coming off would kill the polarity of the molecule and would definitely cause two peaks in the GC. And the formation of the 2a,3a-dithiol could also increase the polarity, causing two peaks in the GC assuming this only happened some of the time.

 

[friction515]

These tactics to discredit IBE seem like something off of fox news. I don't know who that is on I.B.E. that said they tested havoc again and what that even means as this whole issue seems to be the chain of custody. I could say I tested havoc and spit out some numbers on conditions of the GC/MS and say its anything I want. That doesnt mean i really tested it. That doesn't mean anything, I'm not saying he did'nt do what he says its still an issue with him and his affiliations.

I find it hard to believe that a reputable lab tested Havoc and the scientists at that lab say that it is a 60/40 mixture of whatever, and it actually is not. I would say I trust a lab more than some guy on BB.com who says I tested this stuff and its perfect.

I.B.E. never released anymore info though. I would say that there is not anyone left that looks untarnished in this situation.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

The problem is, we don't know who interpreted the results for IBE. Most likely the lab just sent back the graphs from the GC/MS and it would be up to someone in house to do the interpretation.

I don't care for PA much, MM is really, really annoying, and I love IBE's research site. But, the fact is we have three tests:

1) PA: one peak, one MW--says its reasonably to be expected.
2) IBE (LMD?): two peaks, two different substances
3) Carcinogen: two peaks, one MW, same substance

IBE better hope theirs was right because PA may be a ****, but I know he can run an MS/GC with his eyes closed and turning knobs with his ass cheeks and he would have no problem extracting the actives from the capsules. So this causes real concern.

I'm hoping it all just goes away honestly. I think it would be best for everyone, and the industry, if it all just went away and people quit digging at each others throats.

 

[yeahright]

I'm hoping it all just goes away honestly. I think it would be best for everyone, and the industry, if it all just went away and people quit digging at each others throats.

Agreed.

 

[Bionic]

It'll go away until it gets brought up again and again and again. I DOUBT this'll go to court. Drug dealers taking drug dealers to court...for being unethical? I'd be HIGHLY surprised if that happened.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

It'll go away until it gets brought up again and again and again. I DOUBT this'll go to court. Drug dealers taking drug dealers to court...for being unethical? I'd be HIGHLY surprised if that happened.

The judge would never know, and never ask. Its not something relevant to the case. It could easily go to court, regardless of the legality of the product.

 

[yeahright]

The judge would never know, and never ask. Its not something relevant to the case. It could easily go to court, regardless of the legality of the product.

Well, it's going to depend upon what cause of action is actually before the court. If an element of the tort involves the intent of IBE, then it's going to devolve into technical discussion of the compound, reading of the test results, and what did IBE reasonably believe when they engaged in their conduct.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Well, it's going to depend upon what cause of action is actually before the court. If an element of the tort involves the intent of IBE, then it's going to devolve into technical discussion of the compound, reading of the test results, and what did IBE reasonably believe when they engaged in their conduct.

Will the judge ever question its legality?

 

[Bionic]

That's what I was thinking. They would have to present the test(s), no?

 

[yeahright]

Will the judge ever question its legality?

Probably not but I can think of a couple scenarios where that could come into play (and no, I'm not going to explain them and add fuel to this fire).

What people need to understand is that the law has a lot of art in it. It's not a science. There are rarely yes or no answers. This is why when you ask a lawyer a question, the answer usually starts with "it depends." This is because it does depend upon a lot of factors.

Something which might be morally wrong, might be fine legally. Something which might be morally justified, might create legal liability. Analysis of these questions is complex. Moreover, good legal advice is often different from good strategic advice. Just because some action might be legally justified, doesn't mean that it is necessarily a good idea. A good lawyer will look at the big picture and advise clients on what is in their best interest, not just give narrow technically correct legal answers.