IBE is in TROUBLE!!!!!!!

[1Fast400]

wait earlier you said it was cause they didnt want to incurr court costs and lawyer fees, now its cause its illegal???

OH PLEASE go find the quote with me saying RPN isn't suing them due to court costs. RPN would get someone to take this on a %, they would spend NOTHING taking IBE to court.

 

[poopypants]

Don't lie to please me--I'm not paying you right now.You've got abs...if anyone looks like they'll be pushing out a baby soon its me. :sad:

haha na im really havin a boy in may.:head: :dance:

 

[friction515]

I never said for certain either way if you read you would know that but since your too lazy to read I guess I had to inform you of that. We all know who Rick collins is and of course anyone would rather have them on their side. You just try and discredit by not using fact and saying things in a twisted manner. I stand by the you're an idiot statement because I have never seen someone make the statements you make that is not mentally ill in some way. I could go on for a long time about your lack of integrity just based on what I have seen you say in two threads. I would never trust someone who thinks they are beyond question. Your threads are a bore your facts are misleading and your hostile attacks are the only things that you say that are slightly worth reading just because it makes me laugh :rofl: to think you actually get upset on the other side of a keyboard.

 

[1Fast400]

Trust me, I'm far from upset. I'm sitting on my couch watching nba basketball. You and poophole love making all these paintbrush claims, yet you never are able to quote anyting to support it. how surprising. I explained why the product wasn't legal, multiple times. I can't help you don't WANT to believe it.

I'll be curious what everyone's reaction will be when I post the results. If the results come back clean for IBE, I wonder what you guys will say, given that I'm posting them. Surely that will crush your big theory. Why would I post a positive result? You guys don't realize the only reason I did this testing was because I jumped in that thread on bb.com about PA's results. Which I shouldn't have done, especially since PA wouldn't post the results. With that, I felt that since I got involved, I should at least backup what I was saying by doing my own testing. So far, I'm the ONLY person willing to post what they get.

Hell, IBE has had results for 2 weeks and posted nothing.

 

[friction515]

I like how you make paintbrush claims about me and poopy like we're the same person. You have never torn me apart with a quote either.

Like I said where is the fact that they never submitted this to the FDA? I doubt they did as well yet I'm not stating it as fact.

I have asked that question multiple times and you have never answered it. I think your the only one making paintbrush claims, sigh, it's a shame that you have never provided proof for anything you have said.

We might see the lab results and you might be right or wrong. You still have made countless other claims like the ones stated above with no fact to back it.

You have not once torn me apart nor have I changed the subject. When I have been wrong I have admitted it readily. This has nothing to do with my want to believe or not believe something. It has to do with you talking nonsense.

You act like my statements have no merit and thats fine I lose no money either way. It only hurts you because others see you start with name calling and other basically poor argument techniques.

So you can see me as an idiot because I only see you as that maybe if we would have initially talked in different circumstances that would'nt be the case. However this is where we are and you have personally attacked me many times over and I dont really care.

I just wish that maybe once in a while you would make it look like you think before you type. It might be of more use to all of us. Now I don't care what response you have to this I am done with this stupid argument.

 

[1Fast400]

Like I said where is the fact that they never submitted this to the FDA? I doubt they did as well yet I'm not stating it as fact.

It's not found in food supply. They would need to show this when submitting to FDA. Since it isn't found, they wouldn't submit it.

We might see the lab results and you might be right or wrong. You still have made countless other claims like the ones stated above with no fact to back it.

Heaven forbid I give you the pieces to a puzzle and you not be capable of putting them together. I explained the things needed for a product to be legal, then explained the FDA issue. I've stated the ingredient isn't found in food chain (that I'm aware of) so they haven't applied to the FDA. On top of that, they are a grey market company. The LAST thing IBE wants I assure you, is anyone from the FDA knowing they exist. I think everyone agree's with that. Your own post if I'm not mistaken was that the only "bad" thing that was going to happen with this was the FDA's involvement. So you think IBE intentionally involved the FDA in this product. Yeah, I got some waterfront in oklahoma.

 

[mmowry]

You guys don't realize the only reason I did this testing was because I jumped in that thread on bb.com about PA's results. Which I shouldn't have done, especially since PA wouldn't post the results. With that, I felt that since I got involved, I should at least backup what I was saying by doing my own testing. So far, I'm the ONLY person willing to post what they get.

Hell, IBE has had results for 2 weeks and posted nothing.

Mike I have no problem with the testing but I do have a question for you.Do you remember the PMs we had @BB where you started asking me if I knew that Epistane didnt have in it what it claimed?That was around a wk or so before this whole fiasco started.
Youre an intellegent man who seems to try to cover all the angles so why didnt you get the info from PA that he wouldnt post the results?You did have plenty of time to get this fact before you jumped in.

 

[1Fast400]

Mike I have no problem with the testing but I do have a question for you.Do you remember the PMs we had @BB where you started asking me if I knew that Epistane didnt have in it what it claimed?That was around a wk or so before this whole fiasco started.
Youre an intellegent man who seems to try to cover all the angles so why didnt you get the info from PA that he wouldnt post the results?You did have plenty of time to get this fact before you jumped in.

You sent me a PM first. Thanking about in regards to BN and wishing me luck in my new ventures etc. We exchanged a few PM's after that. I thought I'd tell you about something I knew. Which is why I did it via PM. You seemed like a good guy and I don't want to see customers waste their money. At the time I made the comment, I wasn't expecting all of this to happen. I was simply offering advice to a friend. I know what I saw, I know what PA got from his test results, that is proof enough for me. For others, who haven't seen it, that is why I went with my own testing. To show in a public forum, one way or the other, what is going on.

Our conversation was a one on one issue. I never imagined it was going to turn into a 75 pages of threads over 2 boards.

 

[1Fast400]

I was just looking, does IBE have a website? I can't seem to find it

 

[rpen22]

IBE Labs

 

[yeahright]

You guys make me laugh. Am I a lawyer, No. Here is what I know. This compound was brought to Rick Collins 1.5-2 years ago. Rick was asked by two companies if this compound would be legal to sell. Rick IS BY FAR the leader in this industry with the government and it's regulations regarding dietary supplements. Fieldstein that works with him defended ephedra for 8 years in congress. This is all they specialize in. Now, when Rick tells two people that this compound is NOT legal based on current US Law (which is why this compound wasn't released back then), that is good enough for me.

Something tells me if you go into court, you'd rather have Rick Collins on your side than a blue cartoon character named "friction"

Feldstein is the lawyer for SFR - also selling an epi product (hemaguno). He is of counsel with Rick's firm. So, it appears that Rick has tacitly endorsed the selling of this product. If not, then he and Alan have some talking to do.

I would once again ask EVERYONE to keep this thread about facts and opinions and to do your best to refrain from attacking people's personalities and motives.

 

[1Fast400]

Feldstein is the lawyer for SFR - also selling an epi product (hemaguno). He is of counsel with Rick's firm. So, it appears that Rick has tacitly endorsed the selling of this product. If not, then he and Alan have some talking to do.

Alan and Rick both will never give you a 100% clear go on anything. They will even tell you this. They will just tell you what you're facing should you attempt to come out with a product. Some people are willing to chance that even after told that the odds are against them. They are lawyers, they make money when people in this industry get arrested.

SFR is likely setup as out of country corp. Should they get sued, the company will simply be closed and popped up again. They could also just be a NV corp (one of the owners was born there), which protects who they are.

Hell, I spent almost all of last year going through asset protection to protect myself. These guys have done the same. Just because someone has Collins and crew as council, doesn't mean they endorse the making of the product.

 

[yeahright]

Alan and Rick both will never give you a 100% clear go on anything. They will even tell you this. They will just tell you what you're facing should you attempt to come out with a product. Some people are willing to chance that even after told that the odds are against them. They are lawyers, they make money when people in this industry get arrested.

SFR is likely setup as out of country corp. Should they get sued, the company will simply be closed and popped up again. They could also just be a NV corp (one of the owners was born there), which protects who they are.

Hell, I spent almost all of last year going through asset protection to protect myself. These guys have done the same. Just because someone has Collins and crew as council, doesn't mean they endorse the making of the product.

First, you are correct in that lawyers never give definitive answers. In fact, in most states it is malpractice to do so. All one can do is look at the possibilities, explain them to the client and then give advice on the best course of action. They don't teach this in law school but you learn it pretty quick.

Second, you are mistaken. SFR is incorporated as an LLC in the state of California.

Third, you're speaking out of your ass on this one. Of course a lawyer doesn't necessarily endorse the actions of a client. However, you declared earlier that Rick had definitively declared this product as being illegal. If this were true, then there is no way his firm would represent SFR. It is a violation of the rules of professional conduct to assist a client in breaking the law. Someone who practices on the edge like Rick does isn't likely to risk being fined and disbarred for entering into a criminal conspiracy with a client.

 

[poopypants]

"As of now, the legalities of Epistane/Havoc are still unknown therefore do not fall under these rules. Since they are sold by the largest of retailers the legalities of these substances are unknown, therefore they are an exception for now."

I explained why the product wasn't legal, multiple times. I can't help you don't WANT to believe it.

SOOO are you sayin Bobo is lyin???? cause im sure as hell belivin him over you.... your expinations dont MAKE LAW, wether it is "in your head" or not. Show me the law stating epistane is an illegal banned substance and the date that law was published.... OH 2 years ago was it when the others decided not to take part in it cause its "illegal"?

Cause if your right then why ARE they on our sponsored site, now your puttin the Head Board Mod in a tight spot with your claims... how far you pushin this 1Fast400??

 

[1Fast400]

Then the two companies that told me they took it to rick, designer and gaspari are lying. BK told me an at length story about it.

Rick has always been my council (call them to verify if you want I just settled a case this past friday) and during the PH days they were ALWAYS advising about the products we sold. When asking DIRECTLY about M1T, they said they were very unsure of its legality. Yet, I still sold it till the day of the ban and they still remained my council during that time. The lawsuit I JUST closed on friday was dealing with PH from 2 years ago. So I have no idea if it is illegal for them to do as you say. What I do know, is that have represented me in a court of law and they have personally advised me on things I've sold. I did the exact same thing with certain nootropics. It typically cost about 3 grand to get their opinion on it.

So call me a liar, call me whatever you want. I've got my own personal experiences (once again call them and ask them about ANY of this if you think I'm lying) and what BK has told me.

As far as SFR, one of my best friends in the industry owns it. I assure you that Ryan has his ass protected. I'm not sure how (I made a guess), but ryan is WAY to successful to take a chance on something stupid without having his ass protected. I've stayed at Ryan's house numerous times, we've shared many meals together and partied many times. Oddly, if it wasn't for ryan, I wouldn't be in this industry

 

[1Fast400]

It is a violation of the rules of professional conduct to assist a client in breaking the law. Someone who practices on the edge like Rick does isn't likely to risk being fined and disbarred for entering into a criminal conspiracy with a client.

I'm not quite sure I see how they are violating ANY laws by offering their opinion on the legality of a supplement. I don't see how that is assisting them with breaking the law. They simply offer their opinion, since the law is open to interpretation. Can you explain to me how collins offering an opinion on a compound and then a company retaining them for future legal services has collins violating a law?

 

[1Fast400]

SOOO are you sayin Bobo is lyin????

No, you simply can't read what bobo wrote. You need to work on reading comprehension.

 

[Moyer]

Rick has always been my council (call them to verify if you want I just settled a case this past friday) and during the PH days they were ALWAYS advising about the products we sold. When asking DIRECTLY about M1T, they said they were very unsure of its legality. Yet, I still sold it till the day of the ban and they still remained my council during that time.

Now you're admitting that M1T wasn't necessarily legal after bashing everyone else for selling the current popular hormones. :think:

 

[poopypants]

No, you simply can't read what bobo wrote. You need to work on reading comprehension.

thats not the point there fast IF its illegal as you say its so, then why is it bein sold @ NP?

i understand he says the legalities are unknown but you say they are, so with my comprehension being fine WHOSE LYING?

 

[1Fast400]

Now you're admitting that M1T wasn't necessarily legal after bashing everyone else for selling the current popular hormones.

Please see yeah's post:

First, you are correct in that lawyers never give definitive answers. In fact, in most states it is malpractice to do so. All one can do is look at the possibilities, explain them to the client and then give advice on the best course of action. They don't teach this in law school but you learn it pretty quick.

My m1t was an example of this. Since there was NO law at the time those were being sold, there was a basis for it being legal. Once they made a law, that clearly marked it and other things as illegal, we quit selling.

 

[1Fast400]

thats not the point there fast IF its illegal as you say its so, then why is it bein sold @ NP?

Why are you asking ME why something is being sold at NP? Why don't you ask HIM why he is selling it.

i understand he says the legalities are unknown but you say they are, so with my comprehension being fine WHOSE LYING?

If he says it is unknown (based of what he knows to this point) and I say it is illegal based what I know up to this point, then neither of us are lying. I believe 100% that this compound is illegal by US law. RPN knows this, that is why they haven't sued htem.

 

[poopypants]

Why are you asking ME why something is being sold at NP? Why don't you ask HIM why he is selling it.



If he says it is unknown (based of what he knows to this point) and I say it is illegal based what I know up to this point, then neither of us are lying. I believe 100% that this compound is illegal by US law. RPN knows this, that is why they haven't sued htem.

it was a rhetorical question there fast, or do you need to work on your comprehension, going to show my point that i belive him over you and that IF it something known to you to be illegal then why not him, just proving your wrong....

do i need to throw the def of rhetoric up here for you to understand?

 

[1Fast400]

All he has said is that HE DOESN'T KNOW. That is hardly an admission of it being legal. Good god.

 

[Moyer]

Well you have to admit it's easy to see why people say "gray market" if SFR is selling it w/out any fear of legal repercussions, not to mention the dozens of other hormonal products that have been sold since the ban w/out any problems.

 

[poopypants]

All he has said is that HE DOESN'T KNOW. That is hardly an admission of it being legal. Good god.

it goes to show you need MAJOR work on your comprehension. YOU are in question not HIM, the Rhetorical comment was phrased using him to disprove YOU.... so once again why are YOU misdirecting this to someone else and ill ask how far are you willing to push this and when will you admit your O so wrong?
doesnt matter anyhow since i allready know the answer s never and im going to go enjoy an Easter dinner with my family, hope you have a good evening and can think about how many holes there are in your plot and will start to realize the bigger hole your diggin yourself as far as your credibility is concerned. Good bye fast

 

[1Fast400]

Well you have to admit it's easy to see why people say "gray market" if SFR is selling it w/out any fear of legal repercussions, not to mention the dozens of other hormonal products that have been sold since the ban w/out any problems.

No doubt. Everyone is taking a chance. The problem is when someone in the government is ready to make an example of someone. That is going to be a very bad day for someone. My guess is that it will happen in an election year. That or we'll have some kid fall over, they'll attempt to blame some type of grey market product and then here they come in to "protect" us. I wish all this stuff were made legal. I think darwinism should play a larger part in our society. Sadly, we kept moving towards a society that isn't accountable for anything.

 

[1Fast400]

it goes to show you need MAJOR work on your comprehension. YOU are in question not HIM, the Rhetorical comment was phrased using him to disprove YOU.... so once again why are YOU misdirecting this to someone else and ill ask how far are you willing to push this and when will you admit your O so wrong?
doesnt matter anyhow since i allready know the answer s never and im going to go enjoy an Easter dinner with my family, hope you have a good evening and can think about how many holes there are in your plot and will start to realize the bigger hole your diggin yourself as far as your credibility is concerned. Good bye fast

I will be shocked if someone else reads the past 2 pages and comes to the same conclusion as you.

 

[friction515]

No doubt. Everyone is taking a chance. The problem is when someone in the government is ready to make an example of someone. That is going to be a very bad day for someone. My guess is that it will happen in an election year. That or we'll have some kid fall over, they'll attempt to blame some type of grey market product and then here they come in to "protect" us. I wish all this stuff were made legal. I think darwinism should play a larger part in our society. Sadly, we kept moving towards a society that isn't accountable for anything.

I agree and we would all be happier without you around.

 

[jmh80]

Something tells me if you go into court, you'd rather have Rick Collins on your side than a blue cartoon character named "friction"

Agreed. Rick is the man.

 

[jmh80]

Friction - that was out of line, bro.

Can we all just stop acting like 3 year old's here? Why the need to go around and around and around all over again?
Why don't you guys (Poops and Friction) just leave Mike alone until the results come back from RTP.
And Mike can leave you guys alone.

This thread has become retarded.


Oh - will college football get here ASAP!

 

[mmowry]

As far as SFR, one of my best friends in the industry owns it. I assure you that Ryan has his ass protected. I'm not sure how (I made a guess), but ryan is WAY to successful to take a chance on something stupid without having his ass protected. I've stayed at Ryan's house numerous times, we've shared many meals together and partied many times. Oddly, if it wasn't for ryan, I wouldn't be in this industry

These thoughts are all hypothetical of course but :

One of your best friends who got you in the industry (who you feel indebted to) owns SFR.Although if I remember correctly 3 wks ago NOONE knew who they were.

You hate Dsade and IBE is hated at BB.We all have the same product on the market.So to repay a debt :these companies were brought into a pissing contest ;then on the boards both could be looked at suspiciously due to tempers flairing because of the constant bantering by certain individuals.

This would leave a hole in the market for the latecoming company SFR to fill since the compound being sold is in high demand.Now many are sceptical of said companies while the pretty packaged SFR product has almost flown under the flack to take up the market share.

This would make a good suspense novel Id think if it were true.

 

[DR.D]

... I would ask D if he would "allow" me to post the results when I get them. ...

Just go ahead and post them right here, please. I'll critique them for you. Like these for example:

Say you have a make-believe compound like this: 4-chloro-17a-etioallochol-4-ene-17b-ol-3,11-dione

1. There is a molecular ion of 335 indicating parent less a proton (parent: C19H25O3Cl, MW of 336). There would, in all probability be an ion of 350/349 if the methyl group were present (parent: C20H27O3Cl, MW of 350), and it's NOT there, at least in this hypothetical example I'm using.

2. There is an ion of MW, 301 (parent less Chlorine)

3. There is an ion of MW, 285 (parent less Cl and an Oxygen)

4. There is an ion of MW, 269 (parent less Cl, OH and a methyl group) and 254 (an additional methyl group loss)

5. There is an ion of MW, 238 (parent less Cl, OH, 2-methyl groups and an additional Oxygen)

If one goes through the spectrum, assuming that there is a methyl group on the 17a position, you cannot come up with a similar pattern [i.e., 315, 299(present), 283, 268, 252, respectively]. Therefore, it becomes clear that this compound DOES NOT POSSESS a 17a-methyl, but rather a 17a-H. See what I mean?

Please go ahead and post your results, just like you said you would. This is gonna be fun watching you squirm and explain to all your buddies why you couldn't just STFU when you had a chance!

 

[macedaddy]

speaking of primaforce..........

are you gonna be a sponsor over here, now, Mike?

 

[Minus83]

seriously, this thing needs to be locked (if not deleted all together) and then when 1fast makes a new topic, we can all debabte about stuff in there, this has gone on long enough IMO, and this thread, in this particular section of the forum, is ridiculous.

it isnt proving anything, it serves no purpose, atleats in most thread like this they have **** waving and arguements and so forth, id consider this almost beating a dead horse, or...saying absolutely nothing while trying to prove something.

 

[1Fast400]

Funny you mentioned that mace, I was actually thinking about that today. My first duties have been with new products. I don't see any reason not to. Bobo, can you email me what sponsorship is etc for the board? [email protected]

 

[yeahright]

I'm not quite sure I see how they are violating ANY laws by offering their opinion on the legality of a supplement. I don't see how that is assisting them with breaking the law. They simply offer their opinion, since the law is open to interpretation. Can you explain to me how collins offering an opinion on a compound and then a company retaining them for future legal services has collins violating a law?

If a client came to a lawyer and said "we want to sell substance X, is it legal to do so?" and the lawyer's answer was "No, it wouldn't be legal to sell." Then any further legal services provided to that client to further their plan to sell the illegal substance would be the lawyer entering into a criminal conspiracy with the client.

If the client came to the lawyer and said "we want to sell substance X, is it legal to do so?" and the lawyer's answer was "hmmmmm, that's a tough call. It's not directly listed in any applicable law but there are ways to stretch the existing laws to cover it." Then it would be fine to continue representing that client in his plan to sell substance X as long as there was a good faith belief that no laws were being broken.

Lawyers can represent clients who have broken the law but they cannot HELP a client break the law. Doing so violates the rules of professional conduct and would subject the lawyers to disbarment, fines and jail/prison.

As an aside, in the first scenario, a lawyer could continue to represent the client on matters unrelated to them selling substance X but that's a judgment call of the lawyer.

 

[yeahright]

Then the two companies that told me they took it to rick, designer and gaspari are lying. BK told me an at length story about it.

As far as SFR, one of my best friends in the industry owns it. I assure you that Ryan has his ass protected. I'm not sure how (I made a guess), but ryan is WAY to successful to take a chance on something stupid without having his ass protected. I've stayed at Ryan's house numerous times, we've shared many meals together and partied many times. Oddly, if it wasn't for ryan, I wouldn't be in this industry

Well, BK's hardly a reliable source of info. He's smart but his ego causes him to bluster a whole lot. He's also about to start serving a 2 year sentence for running a UL out of his crappy apartment.

Here's my guess: The two companies took substance X to Rick when they say they did. Rick looked at it, looked at the hot regulatory environment happening at the time and told them that it wouldn't be worth the risk....that he could make some arguments to defend them but with the steroid witchhunt underway, they'd likely lose or even if they did win, it would cost so much in lawyer's fees and lost marketshare that it would be a pyrric victory. A couple years later what people remember is "Rick said it was illegal."

Fast forward to today: SFR goes to Rick, shows him substance X and asks his opinion. He says that it's risky but the regulatory environment is cooled down. He advises them to set up a shell company that won't taint their legitimate businesses if the feds turn on it. Feldstein incorporates SFR in California.

I don't know nor care what steps Ryan took to protect himself but I will say that once my curiosity was piqued, it only took me a couple days of detective work to learn a whole lot about SFR.

It would be really great IMHO if everyone would just STFU about this product before the furor draws the attention of people who would like to see it scheduled.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

If/When Mike/IBE/Anyone receives results they can be posted here or in another thread to be analyzed/refuted. Until then, chill...