Getting rid of gyno n getting bigger than IC.....if thats even possible.

[Distilled Water]

Well I think im just goin to go with DTHC. Starting it 2maro. Im pissed actually, I think gyno may have gotten worse! Maybe just a little puffy because im flat and a little bloated (higher sodium intake) It's def not any better. Nothing special has even happpend.

I weighd 198 this morning (4 days with no carbs dropped about 7lbs). I feel flat (obviously) but I dont soo much care about that. I havne't gotten un-naturally stonger or anything. I still have a bottle of Epistane, idk what i'll do with it. If any of you guys want to trade for it, im game.

I also pick'd up some VAT Attack from USP Labs. I was just going to use Clen for cortisol but I can't take the jitters of headaches from it. Maybe i'll use that in after VAT?

I am also going to take next week off from lifting to better transition into the No-Carb diet. I'll hit up 30min of cardio in the evening but thats it. Im going to go a total of 12 days before I start adding carbs Pre & Post workout. It'll be a TKD.

I'll also be eating Tilapia this week, it was on sale and they only had 6lbs of london broil out and the butcher was closed. The extra fat should help.

Other than that im pretty frustrated with my situation from the past 4 weeks. It started off great but then pleatued after a week or 2. Maybe I was expecting too much? I dont think so. Diet/Training/Supplements were spot on this entire time, My only guess is my job is more physically demanding that I thought? I do work about 9hr/day and I noticed the most progress when I was away from work for those 5-6 day breaks then when I got laid off. Then I started back this week (which was only suppose to be part time but turned into full-time) and gains game to a hault.

 

[Irish Cannon]

I'm sorry to hear that, bro. Was it Epistane that you used for your cycle? I've never had great results with anything but Epidrol. Now, I had to purchase some E-Stane only because Epidrol was out when I made that order, so I can only hope I react to it the same.

I've used Havoc, and it helped a little, but gyno returned during the cycle; I made the switch from Havoc to Epidrol DURING the cycle (I also increased dosage from 40mg to 50mg) and gyno went away within a week.

I'm not saying for sure that Epidrol is what did it...maybe it was the increased dosage, but it made a difference.

Have you tried the new Formestane products yet? Celc and I seem to agree on the fact that the new carrier really seems to help a lot with gyno reduction. From what I understand, his gyno went away while on the old Form, but returned; on the new stuff it went away and stayed away. - It worked this way for me as well, but returned a few days ago from the HGW, albeit, in a different spot on my nipple.

I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of progress. You'll come around There's plenty more to worry about than bodybuilding.

Oh, and I just started using Coleus for fat loss. Have you used it before? Maybe you could use some of that rather than dealing with Clen. I know it's totally different, but it's something to think about. It would probably work good with VAT, or would it be too similar? - I know they both elevate cAMP levels.

 

[celc5]

DW,
IMO, you started a cycle, might as well get some anabolic effects from it. If I were you, I'd start ramping my epithio dosage and keep it going. Then in pct, get some Nolva and formestane to kill the lump.

IC,
Nope. Old and new form killed the lump and it came back every time. That's why I want to run form to get it down and then bridge into a serm to see if I can prevent the rebound.

Prop blends that have coleus are great for me for fat loss. I'm talking like I can tell a difference in 2-3 days. Unfortunately, I have a sensitive stomach and I end up spending all day on the toilet with coleus (aka forslean) :rant: So, no Hypedrol, no AdipoX anymore for me

 

[Drizzo]

I'm sorry to hear that, bro. Was it Epistane that you used for your cycle? I've never had great results with anything but Epidrol. Now, I had to purchase some E-Stane only because Epidrol was out when I made that order, so I can only hope I react to it the same.

I've used Havoc, and it helped a little, but gyno returned during the cycle; I made the switch from Havoc to Epidrol DURING the cycle (I also increased dosage from 40mg to 50mg) and gyno went away within a week.

I'm not saying for sure that Epidrol is what did it...maybe it was the increased dosage, but it made a difference.

I was under the (possibly false) impression that Havoc, Epistane, and Epidrol, and all these damn epi-clones were essentially the same thing once they came to be broken down in the body.

Does anybody else share IC's idea that one of the epi-clones are more likely to reduce gyno than the others? I've had a bottle of havoc on-hand for a short cutting cycle and i'm hoping for some gyno reduction as well... but I have pretty bad case so i'm not betting on it.

 

[bioman]

I get no gyno reduction from either Havoc or Epistane. Initially, there is some reduction but then it tends to get worse. Formestane TD aggravates it as well. Had good reduction with 6-bromo and Toremifene.

 

[Distilled Water]

Oh, and I just started using Coleus for fat loss. Have you used it before? Maybe you could use some of that rather than dealing with Clen. I know it's totally different, but it's something to think about. It would probably work good with VAT, or would it be too similar? - I know they both elevate cAMP levels.

Yea I have, I did really like it. I still have some NP caps along with a container of bulk NP stuff. I'll throw a 1/4t. down the hatch every morning and take a 20mg cap each night before bed, why not?!?!

Yes I do have IBE Epistane

 

[Distilled Water]

DW,
IMO, you started a cycle, might as well get some anabolic effects from it. If I were you, I'd start ramping my epithio dosage and keep it going. Then in pct, get some Nolva and formestane to kill the lump.

Hmm...ok I havent started DTHC just yet so I'll take 50mg/day until im out and see what happens.

Prop blends that have coleus are great for me for fat loss. I'm talking like I can tell a difference in 2-3 days. Unfortunately, I have a sensitive stomach and I end up spending all day on the toilet with coleus (aka forslean) :rant: So, no Hypedrol, no AdipoX anymore for me

I logg'd Gerneric Labs Cissus-Drol, which was simlar to Hyperdrol and wow, same affect here. However now it's not so bad for me....seems like I have built an iron stomach for coleus

 

[Distilled Water]

I get no gyno reduction from either Havoc or Epistane. Initially, there is some reduction but then it tends to get worse. Formestane TD aggravates it as well. Had good reduction with 6-bromo and Toremifene.

Care to share the doses?

 

[Irish Cannon]

I get no gyno reduction from either Havoc or Epistane. Initially, there is some reduction but then it tends to get worse. Formestane TD aggravates it as well. Had good reduction with 6-bromo and Toremifene.

Total opposite for me. All that stuff helped my gyno with the exception of 6-bromo, which worsened it. :dunno:

 

[celc5]

yup, definately aggravated with aPCT for me too. That's why there's no protocol that works for everyone. We just have to experiment IMO.

Dw,
rock it at 50 brotha :head: should kick in quick IMO

 

[Distilled Water]

Dw,
rock it at 50 brotha :head: should kick in quick IMO

I've gained 13lbs and gyno is gone!!!!!!!



















Not so much, ha. I bump'd the dose and feel....well normal. I did some cardio today and feel leaner always feel leaner after cardio. I think i've hit ketosis, my breathe is awful and my mouth tastes awful. Can't really get rid of it.

 

[anabolicRyan1]

I've gained 13lbs and gyno is gone!!!!!!!

Dude... you couldn't have gained 13lbs in a day...

You'd have to be on a muscletech product for that!
I've heard you'll look just like Jay Cutler in 2 weeks.

I should be a rep

 

[Distilled Water]

More cardio today. Weight is still sitting between 197-199ish. I look really flat but getting a little vascular, kind of odd.

It's starting to appear that I gained more abdominal fat than originally thought, unless im just that bloated in my stomach from creatine. I say this because my waist is sitting just under 33" now and abbs aren't really there like I thought they'd be.

O'well....only good advice my dad ever gave me was "You dont need a six-pack to hit a 90mph fastball"

 

[Irish Cannon]

O'well....only good advice my dad ever gave me was "You dont need a six-pack to hit a 90mph fastball"

Haha! That's the truth. I see plenty of baseball players with lil' guts on 'em. I wouldn't want that, but there's no reason to be Mr. Ripped all the time either.

 

[Distilled Water]

Haha! That's the truth. I see plenty of baseball players with lil' guts on 'em. I wouldn't want that, but there's no reason to be Mr. Ripped all the time either.

Yea actually most do, well the good ones anyways. I think it's because every ball player drinks....heavily, lol.

I pick'd up some USPowders DominATP....I'll be switching to the Palumbo (TKD) Here soon and thought it'd work well with my Intra-Workout shake. What do you guys think.

*Start stipping 30min pre-workout
500mg P-Slin
120gr WMS
3 scoops DominATP
Serving Size: 3 scoops (17 grams)
-Dicreatine Malate 4500 mg
-Beta Alanine 3000 mg
-Leucine 5000 mg
-Citrulline Malate 3500 mg
-Agmatine Sulfate 500 mg

I can still throw in another 6gr of somthing in there to get the quick absortion benifits from WMS weight in there? Any suggestions?

 

[celc5]

120g WMS??? I'm NOT a believer

 

[Irish Cannon]

120g WMS??? I'm NOT a believer

I was taking a dump, thinking over this concoction, and I came to this same conclusion. The fact that you even mention you're not too happy with your belly/waist (or so it seems) makes me believe that you're crazy to even consider this.

I say 60g WMS...MAX! - Make up the rest in dry, ground, steel cut oats. - Look into LG's new Perfect Carb. I haven't used it yet due to my diet constraints, but the blend of WMS/Dextro/Malto is perfect.

 

[Distilled Water]

Really guy's? Even tho it's a TKD?

IC, that perfect carb sounds like you may need someone to test it? Hmmm, I think I know a guy :lol:

 

[Irish Cannon]

Really guy's? Even tho it's a TKD?

IC, that perfect carb sounds like you may need someone to test it? Hmmm, I think I know a guy :lol:

Just because it's TKD doesn't mean you want a ton of WMS. Post-workout carbs, yes, but I'd recommend more quality carbs and only a little WMS.

That USP Mass Monster Shake thing is a crock. Nobody needs that much WMS unless you're on the Tour De France.

 

[Distilled Water]

Just because it's TKD doesn't mean you want a ton of WMS. Post-workout carbs, yes, but I'd recommend more quality carbs and only a little WMS.

That USP Mass Monster Shake thing is a crock. Nobody needs that much WMS unless you're on the Tour De France.

Speaking of which; did you notic Lance Armstrong is in the sponsored ad box a lot in this thread

I used the P-Slin shake last winter with Hydro-Isolate and WMS....I think it worked pretty well for me. Now I never went to the 200gr of carbs they were suggesting, 120 was tops for me. Usually closer to 80gr

 

[Distilled Water]

Im packing my stuff up and getting ready to head back to school. I have some stuff here we had in storage for the past 3 years or so and I found some interesting stuff.

It was my measurements and workouts from 06'. Even a picture. I was a Fvkcin machine. I was in the middle of a contest prep when my training had some serious health issues. I was 4 weeks out so I scrapped the show and started bulking. From what I have writtin here I was 186lbs with a 31" (7%BF) waist and had 16 1/4" biceps and 13" forarms (other measurements are slightly smaller). Man those were the days, craziest thing was I was working 2 jobs at the time. Kind of depressing

Oh wait I know what I was doing right....I didn't have a girl friend :lol:

 

[Irish Cannon]

Sometimes looking back is just painful. I've made so many ups and downs, bro. It happens to all of us.

I used to Squat 315x15, and now I've got a busted back and can hardly put up 225x8. I used to bench 225x12, now I'm getting it for 3...I didn't have gyno for a year, now I do, and the only thing I've found to work is being taken off the market.

Yep, things are getting worse.

 

[Distilled Water]

I'm going to carb up some tonight. Probably like 500gr of carbs or so, probably going to be slightly more like a "**** load" but my diet has been on point for weeks on end and no real carbs in the past 8 or 9 days.

 

[hman85]

I'm going to carb up some tonight. Probably like 500gr of carbs or so, probably going to be slightly more like a "**** load" but my diet has been on point for weeks on end and no real carbs in the past 8 or 9 days.

Sounds like you need it! Don't want to lose muscle:147: I am carbing up today as well!

 

[Irish Cannon]

I can't even imagine 9 days without carbs, but I'll find out soon enough. I was supposed to start CKD on Monday, but I'm considering another week of TKD.

 

[Distilled Water]

I can't even imagine 9 days without carbs, but I'll find out soon enough. I was supposed to start CKD on Monday, but I'm considering another week of TKD.

If you trying to add lean mass I think TKD is the way to go. CKD are great for recomping, IMO.

After much debating I think CKD are too hard for dieting. They may work but mentally tough. Having no carbs and looking flat all the time is no easy go.

 

[Irish Cannon]

If you trying to add lean mass I think TKD is the way to go. CKD are great for recomping, IMO.

After much debating I think CKD are too hard for dieting. They may work but mentally tough. Having no carbs and looking flat all the time is no easy go.

Maybe I'll take this advice and stay TKD for a while. Do you still do re-feeds on TKD? I was considering on having a couple extra carb-meals today and possibly tomorrow.

 

[Distilled Water]

Maybe I'll take this advice and stay TKD for a while. Do you still do re-feeds on TKD? I was considering on having a couple extra carb-meals today and possibly tomorrow.

Yea I did, they were just smaller tho. I'd usually do them on wednsday and saturday. Like 300gr of carbs or so from oatmeal, borwn rice and sweet potatos and a cheat meal (but nothing to crazy).

 

[Irish Cannon]

I have to meat some friends at Whataburger for some group project (they have wifi there). I was going to get a couple chicken sandwiches. They actually serve them on whole wheat, so ya.

 

[Distilled Water]

Didn't do any cardio today either, really no excuse for not doing any today. I will do some 2maro and sunday tho.

 

[Irish Cannon]

I'd like to do cardio tomorrow, but I'm not going to force myself. If I get up in time then I will. I'm not going to set my alarm for it, I'll put it that way.

Hey, did you see my 355lb deadlift? I know that's not a big deal, but I've got a busted back, and it felt freaking awesome to me. :lol:

 

[Distilled Water]

I'd like to do cardio tomorrow, but I'm not going to force myself. If I get up in time then I will. I'm not going to set my alarm for it, I'll put it that way.

Hey, did you see my 355lb deadlift? I know that's not a big deal, but I've got a busted back, and it felt freaking awesome to me. :lol:

No I havent, i'll just search my way over to your thread. 355 is legit tho busted back or not.

How you are about 2maro is kinda how I was today.

Oh side note. I woke up pretty vascular today, but if I would lose some BF my veins would pop out. Right not it's just some blue veins that peak out a little if I flex but thats all. I have no idea how or when I got these veins

 

[Distilled Water]

Im still alive, I've been traveling like a mad man these past three weeks. I'm still trying to stay after it but it's hard when your taveling, like most of you guys know. I'll prolly be out until monday so I'll update then. Hope everyone is doing well!!!!!

 

[Irish Cannon]

Good to see you're alive!

 

[Distilled Water]

Well I am all finished with Epistane and I am not at all impressed. Im am really disapointed. It had zero effects on me. Over the course of 8 weeks I made the same gains as I have before of diet and supps.

Measurements are all up about 1/4-1/2" and waist is down slightly but I cut back carbs and bloat has lessend a lot. Strength is up maybe 10-15lbs. Again, nothing earth shattering.

2maro I am going to start "cutting". I am having my diet done by a professional, Im not realy sure how they feel about me posting it on here. I worked with this same person years ago when I was in the best shape of my life so I know I am in good hands.

Here's a new link to me next log. Im looking at VAT Attack and Refresh

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/134392-im-being-vat.html#post2111551

 

[Irish Cannon]

What was your dosing on it again? I didn't see anything until I hit 40mg and beyond (I've gone up to 60mg).

 

[Distilled Water]

What was your dosing on it again? I didn't see anything until I hit 40mg and beyond (I've gone up to 60mg).

It went like so....
20/20/30/30/40/40/50/50

If I have to dose 60mg on the stuff then it's just not worth it. Know what I mean? I could run anavar at 50mg/day for that price.

 

[Distilled Water]

I'd like to note, I saw much greater results form Prime and GHRP-6...oh and DT2010

My doses were all very mild. 6 Prime/day 5 on 2 off for 4 weeks, then bumped to 6/day ED. DT2010 I took 2-3caps/day and 100mcg GHRP-6 am/pm 5 on 2 off.

 

[Irish Cannon]

I'd like to note, I saw much greater results form Prime and GHRP-6...oh and DT2010

My doses were all very mild. 6 Prime/day 5 on 2 off for 4 weeks, then bumped to 6/day ED. DT2010 I took 2-3caps/day and 100mcg GHRP-6 am/pm 5 on 2 off.

That's cool to see better results off of natural (mostly) products. I'm excited for LG's GHRP product.

I'm currently using PRIME and liking the results. Dosing 6 on off days (2/2/2), 9 on training days (6/2/1)...training days I take 6 pre-workout. :twisted: - Still don't know if it's worth $50/btl though.

I'm about to add in 9g of HMB daily. I've still got a couple hundred grams left, so I figure I may as well use them...Hmm, or maybe I'll wait for PCT from my Epi/SD cycle. :dunno: - I start that Sept. 19th.

So when do our pictures go up?

 

[Distilled Water]

So when do our pictures go up?

Hows next weekend sound? Im just getting moved in right now but I should be good to go by next weekend. I orginally thought I'd be moved in last week but wasn't so lucky.

PS. HMB at higher doses, ~6gr/day, gave me the runs....good luck my man.

 

[Irish Cannon]

Hows next weekend sound? Im just getting moved in right now but I should be good to go by next weekend. I orginally thought I'd be moved in last week but wasn't so lucky.

PS. HMB at higher doses, ~6gr/day, gave me the runs....good luck my man.

Sounds good. I'll take them during my carb up. I'll probably be UTI at the time. :lol:

Ya, I was hitting 10g of HMB last time, but the doses were split. We'll see what happens.

 

[celc5]

IC,
I bridged from Havoc to SD. I went the whole way through the epithio with only lethargy. About 7 or 10 days into the SD bridge, I completely tanked in terms of motivation, drive, huge lethargy, non existant libido. Recovery was miserable with about a 3 week period before libido came back. HDL was still low a good 6 weeks post pct too. Just a warning from someone who's ran your stack.

 

[Irish Cannon]

IC,
I bridged from Havoc to SD. I went the whole way through the epithio with only lethargy. About 7 or 10 days into the SD bridge, I completely tanked in terms of motivation, drive, huge lethargy, non existant libido. Recovery was miserable with about a 3 week period before libido came back. HDL was still low a good 6 weeks post pct too. Just a warning from someone who's ran your stack.

What was your exact dosing? This is what I'll be running from Sept 19th thru Oct 30th:

Weeks 1-2: Epi @ 40mg, SD @ 2.5mg
Weeks 3-6: Epi @ 50mg, SD @ 2.5mg

Edit: I just did some calculations. 2.5mg of SD over 6 weeks comes out to 105mg. 30mg over 3 weeks comes out to 630mg, which is somewhat close to a normal cycle (I often see 20/30/30 or 30/30/30). That's a HUGE difference. Sheesh.

I think the low dose of SD should really keep the sides away. I guess we'll wait and see. Thanks for the input on the cycle. I still wish I would have asked you about HGW first! I'm still dealing with this nasty gyno from it.

 

[celc5]

I have no idea with your proposed dosing though. I suspect that you could "get away with" a little higher dosage without noticing any sides. But you think you'll still have any gains? I dunno, my opinion is that experimentation is for rats in labs, not for me :laugh:

I ran:
havoc 30/30/40/40
SD 0/0/0/10/20 then --->:toothache: SD is the most explosive compound I've ever touched, but it was NOT worth it to me. I suggest taking a look at epithio/19nor (aka spawn) stacks that are popular on just about every board as an alternative.

 

[monsterbox]

What was your exact dosing? This is what I'll be running from Sept 19th thru Oct 30th:

Weeks 1-2: Epi @ 40mg, SD @ 2.5mg
Weeks 3-6: Epi @ 50mg, SD @ 2.5mg

Edit: I just did some calculations. 2.5mg of SD over 6 weeks comes out to 105mg. 30mg over 3 weeks comes out to 630mg, which is somewhat close to a normal cycle (I often see 20/30/30 or 30/30/30). That's a HUGE difference. Sheesh.

I think the low dose of SD should really keep the sides away. I guess we'll wait and see. Thanks for the input on the cycle. I still wish I would have asked you about HGW first! I'm still dealing with this nasty gyno from it.

f*ck superdrol. Its poison that makes you bigger. People forget the point that we are bodybuilding to be healthy. I took 10mg/day of m-drol for 1.5 weeks and had a liver ALT of 600, which later dropped back to 25 upon cessation.

 

[Distilled Water]

f*ck superdrol. Its poison that makes you bigger. People forget the point that we are bodybuilding to be healthy. I took 10mg/day of m-drol for 1.5 weeks and had a liver ALT of 600, which later dropped back to 25 upon cessation.

I think u may be a crazy case. I know of others who had their ranges peak to high 30's low 40's while on it and dropped down to mid 20's after a 4 week run. They were also taking cycle support, which they started before cycle.

 

[Irish Cannon]

f*ck superdrol. Its poison that makes you bigger. People forget the point that we are bodybuilding to be healthy. I took 10mg/day of m-drol for 1.5 weeks and had a liver ALT of 600, which later dropped back to 25 upon cessation.

okay

 

[celc5]

f*ck superdrol. Its poison that makes you bigger. People forget the point that we are bodybuilding to be healthy. I took 10mg/day of m-drol for 1.5 weeks and had a liver ALT of 600, which later dropped back to 25 upon cessation.

really? Maybe a lab mistake? Wouldn't your eyes and fingers be yellow before you hit anywhere close to that number :think: