Fruit sugar bad???

AntonG42O

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Oh i'm sure you burn them all. It's working for you. I salute you for going hunter gatherer. I've thought about trying it out before, the grains wouldn't be a problem to drop, I only eat grains twice a day, from oatmeal. And it's not like I couldn't find an easy alternative to that. To me though live isn't worth living if you can't eat peanut butter, LOL. I honestly wouldn't wanna live if I couldn't have my peanut butter. ALL of my fat intake comes from nuts in some form or another, either from whole almonds or peanut butter or almond butter.
well the primal diet that we follow allows nuts. just in moderation. they are all omega 6 and no omega 3 so the ratio is thrown off. as long as you consume adequate omega 3 elsewhere you should be ok. if you eliminated gluten from the diet (pasta/bread) then you are doing much better. eliminating grains is what really allowed me to get super ripped and perform much better in grappling.
 

MakaveliThaDon

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well the primal diet that we follow allows nuts. just in moderation. they are all omega 6 and no omega 3 so the ratio is thrown off. as long as you consume adequate omega 3 elsewhere you should be ok. if you eliminated gluten from the diet (pasta/bread) then you are doing much better. eliminating grains is what really allowed me to get super ripped and perform much better in grappling.
Does it allow for potatoes and sweet potatoes, just out of curiousity?
 

swan1209

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this is a serious question, and not an attempt to say ur wrong or some BS, im curious. If carbs are as you view them, how can japan have the greatest longevity in the world when they eat rice 3 times a day?
GREEN TEA hahaha
 
DaJaP

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they dont all eat rice 3 times a day, thats a stereotype. even if they eat sushi im sure that its not always rolls and more like raw fish. i mean there could be a million reasons. genetics? they dont stuff themselves with mcdonalds, white bread, deep fried crap. their overall calorie intake is lower than americans which helps. plus the prescription drugs that are available these days are able to keep people alive for a very long time, regardless of optimum health.
lol im japanese, and its not a stereotype, its pretty damn close to the truth. obv genetics, evoluton, etc have played their role. But ur statements earlier are basically that carbs are the reason america is fat, in a nutshell, and why there is illness and disease around every corner, which is absurd. Don't get me wrong, its cool readin all this, its very informative when there are facts being thrown around. but ur comments are gradually encompassing more of the US's problems, and becoming more opnionated than anything else, kind of like the michael moore of carbs, aha. Glad to hear its working for u, but u cant speak it like its abolute.
 
JudoJosh

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lol im japanese, and its not a stereotype, its pretty damn close to the truth. obv genetics, evoluton, etc have played their role. But ur statements earlier are basically that carbs are the reason america is fat, in a nutshell, and why there is illness and disease around every corner, which is absurd. Don't get me wrong, its cool readin all this, its very informative when there are facts being thrown around. but ur comments are gradually encompassing more of the US's problems, and becoming more opnionated than anything else, kind of like the michael moore of carbs, aha. Glad to hear its working for u, but u cant speak it like its abolute.
If your interested read Protein Power & the Paleo Diet also you can check out the website www.marksdailyapple.com

Anton is not exaggerating at all, not only is there little to no nutritional content in grains and the small benefits they are advertised to help with can be achieved through other food choices, when they make up a majority of your diet they cam be detrimental to your health.

This isn't made up or skewing of facts there is plenty of research that shows this. The two above books and website are a great place to start if your interested.
 
Rodja

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lol im japanese, and its not a stereotype, its pretty damn close to the truth. obv genetics, evoluton, etc have played their role. But ur statements earlier are basically that carbs are the reason america is fat, in a nutshell, and why there is illness and disease around every corner, which is absurd. Don't get me wrong, its cool readin all this, its very informative when there are facts being thrown around. but ur comments are gradually encompassing more of the US's problems, and becoming more opnionated than anything else, kind of like the michael moore of carbs, aha. Glad to hear its working for u, but u cant speak it like its abolute.
It's excessive, processed carbs in conjunction with a sedentary lifestyle and total-body inflammation. The traditional Japanese diet also uses much more fish and vegetables, both which curtail inflammation.

You also have to remember that the Japanese population is the exception and not the rule. They have the highest number of centurions in the world with a higher life expectancy and quality of life. More or less, the plight of obesity applies to "Western" countries, but that does not mean that it is not happening over world.

What the Primal/Paleo philosophy encompasses is how our digestive system was designed to work. The human body is adept at survival and people forget that insulin production is meant to be low. The best way to keep insulin low is by not consuming an excessive amount of carbs by eating fat and protein as the primary source of calories.

This is more of a personal thing, but I feel as though it you must have grains, then rice is the way to go because it is only slightly acidic and is gluten free. However, these should also be used sparingly and not as the backbone of your diet.
 
Torq

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Would you like me to scan a copy of my degree or would you care to address my point that carb control is by far the most important part to insulin control? The common approach to nutrition is driven by the USDA, which is made up of former board members of grain and food companies. Don't you think that there is a bit of a hidden agenda especially since many of them are still on the payroll?

Go Paleo/Primal for 1 month and you'll detox your body from all of the crap you've consumed in the past. In addition, you'll have effortless weight loss without counting any calories and increase the pH of your blood.
hey Rodja,
What it that specifically? (Paleo/Primal)
 
Rodja

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hey Rodja,
What it that specifically? (Paleo/Primal)
The Paleo/Primal lifestyle (I don't say diet because it is a lifestyle) is using the philosophy of eating like our primitive ancestors which is meat, nuts, and produce. What this diet specifically cuts out is grains, most legumes, soy, and dairy (although Primal is a little bit more relaxed than Paleo on this food). Many grains and legumes contain anti-nutrients called phytates and mycotoxins. What these do is to essentially rob the body of key nutrients like iron, zinc, calcium, and magnesium.
 
Torq

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The Paleo/Primal lifestyle (I don't say diet because it is a lifestyle) is using the philosophy of eating like our primitive ancestors which is meat, nuts, and produce. What this diet specifically cuts out is grains, most legumes, soy, and dairy (although Primal is a little bit more relaxed than Paleo on this food). Many grains and legumes contain anti-nutrients called phytates and mycotoxins. What these do is to essentially rob the body of key nutrients like iron, zinc, calcium, and magnesium.
Ahh noted!!! Thank you, Rodja!!!
 

MakaveliThaDon

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What can you use for slow release complex carbs on a primal/paleo diet?

I have reactive hypoglycemia that basically requires me to put about 15 or so grams of complex carbs in all of my meals to keep my blood sugar stable. Even fruit aggravates the condition for me.

When I do salads I usually use croutons to make up about 15g of complex carbs to stabilize. If I could get rid of that, it would be real easy for me to go primal.
 
Rodja

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What can you use for slow release complex carbs on a primal/paleo diet?

I have reactive hypoglycemia that basically requires me to put about 15 or so grams of complex carbs in all of my meals to keep my blood sugar stable. Even fruit aggravates the condition for me.

When I do salads I usually use croutons to make up about 15g of complex carbs to stabilize. If I could get rid of that, it would be real easy for me to go primal.
Red/sweet potatoes.
 
Torq

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Hey Rodja/Anton,
How can I go about jump starting this lifestyle and incorporating this into my diet.
 

MakaveliThaDon

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Speaking of potatoes, how much truth is there that you lose all of the nutritional content when you steam them as opposed to baking them?
 
Rodja

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i think this whole thread has been about promoting a business.

OK THE WEBSITE is full of information but with that comes merchandise
Supplements

Books and Media

Seminars

Apparel
and of course at a price.
You really just need to admit that you are wrong and let it go. At no point did any of us suggest to buy a book, certain supplements, seminars, etc. You're really grasping to try to discredit us by this crap of a straw man argument.

What our governments are recommending isn't working regarding nutrition and obesity. Don't you think it's time for a change?
 
JudoJosh

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i think this whole thread has been about promoting a business.

Really? So you are suggesting that some how we got the original poster to start this conversation just so we can promote a business? Thats a little bit of a stretch dont you think? Anytime the topic of diet comes up this has been my stance on it. I only suggest the above resources when a person shows interest in the lifestyle change and ask about it.

OK THE WEBSITE is full of information but with that comes merchandise
Supplements
Yes and did I recommend any supplements? NO! If asked I would have told you they are waaaay overpriced and not worth it. Furthermore I didn't even recommend his book, I specifically stated that the website was full of infomation and honestly I think the site offers just as much if not more information than his book

Books and Media
I suggested two books (paleo diet & protein power) to the person who was curious about the diet so they can further their reading into it. Is this wrong? Should they just blindly listen to my advice without any research? Whats wrong with suggesting reading material that will help further someones knowledge in a topic that they are interested in?

Seminars

Apparel
and of course at a price.
When did anyone suggest any of those to anyone?
 
oufinny

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You really just need to admit that you are wrong and let it go. At no point did any of us suggest to buy a book, certain supplements, seminars, etc. You're really grasping to try to discredit us by this crap of a straw man argument.

What our governments are recommending isn't working regarding nutrition and obesity. Don't you think it's time for a change?
Interestingly enough, I figured I would do an experiment and bring this up with my father last night. It is truly amazing how deep the roots are and how programmed people are to believe what has been told to them by the media. At least he is willing to listen and was actually partially interested in what I had to say, though he is a bit set in his ways and any major change will have to be finessed with great care. This approach will have to be used with the American people as they will view this as yet another fad diet. Grass roots type work is how this will work, not a massive media campaign as it will be stuffed out by those food manufacturers who have financial interests at stake.
 

corsaking

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You really just need to admit that you are wrong and let it go. At no point did any of us suggest to buy a book, certain supplements, seminars, etc. You're really grasping to try to discredit us by this crap of a straw man argument.

What our governments are recommending isn't working regarding nutrition and obesity. Don't you think it's time for a change?
why should i admit im wrong ? by doing that indirectly i am saying that most of the worlds population has been eating wrong for decades.
in such a diverse society that we have today , in all sorts of ways , you should at least accept that everyone is different and if the majority dont wish to conform to your way of thinking , then you should accept that .
IF someone wants to put up with indigestion every now and again and take a gaviscon, feel bloated after eating certain foods and prepared to accept that , then let it be.
i dont think you have the right to tell people what they should do.

IF readers which to pick pieces from your post and introduce them into their lifestyle then so be it , but to continually rant on here telling readers what they should do or shouldnt , is not the right approach.

govts issue nutritional guidelines that tell people what they should eat . Information is out there telling the consumers whats good or bad for them Everyone has a right to choose and no -one has the right to dictate how someone should eat

people get fat because they eat too much and dont exercise The only exercise most people get is walking to the car.

Will i let it go ? i will but not for your reasons , ive spent too much time on this
 
Rodja

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why should i admit im wrong ? by doing that indirectly i am saying that most of the worlds population has been eating wrong for decades.
in such a diverse society that we have today , in all sorts of ways , you should at least accept that everyone is different and if the majority dont wish to conform to your way of thinking , then you should accept that .
IF someone wants to put up with indigestion every now and again and take a gaviscon, feel bloated after eating certain foods and prepared to accept that , then let it be.
i dont think you have the right to tell people what they should do.

IF readers which to pick pieces from your post and introduce them into their lifestyle then so be it , but to continually rant on here telling readers what they should do or shouldnt , is not the right approach.

govts issue nutritional guidelines that tell people what they should eat . Information is out there telling the consumers whats good or bad for them Everyone has a right to choose and no -one has the right to dictate how someone should eat

people get fat because they eat too much and dont exercise The only exercise most people get is walking to the car.

Will i let it go ? i will but not for your reasons , ive spent too much time on this
I will openly state that people have been eating wrong for centuries and not just decades. Every nutritionist that I have spoken to all stick to the same template that is archaic information. Hell, how many fat nutritionists are out there? In my experience, there are many.

As stated before, the government is the worst source for information regarding nutrition. Much of the USDA is made up of former executives of food conglomerates that are still on the payroll. You can't honestly think that there is not some behind the scenes action. If people want to choose to eat like **** and live in ignorance, then that's their choice and I honestly could care less. However, it is stubborn, ignorant people like you that make it ok for people to abuse their bodies and ruin their health.
 
EasyEJL

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You really just need to admit that you are wrong and let it go. At no point did any of us suggest to buy a book, certain supplements, seminars, etc. You're really grasping to try to discredit us by this crap of a straw man argument.

What our governments are recommending isn't working regarding nutrition and obesity. Don't you think it's time for a change?
People have been eating grains literally for thousands of years. It has been a staple of over half the world population for those thousands of years. The obesity epidemic is less than 50 years old. Citing grains as the cause is just ridiculous.
 
Rodja

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People have been eating grains literally for thousands of years. It has been a staple of over half the world population for those thousands of years. The obesity epidemic is less than 50 years old. Citing grains as the cause is just ridiculous.
At no point did I cite grains as the cause of obesity. Is it part of the problem, yes, but it is not the entire picture. Plus, the grains of today are doused in god knows what and highly GE.
 
AntonG42O

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I think that there is no need for an argument at this point. the people on this board that choose to eat grains and believe that we are full of sh!t should continue eating grains and enjoying themselves. Like corsaking said, if you wanna put up with indigestion and take medication to be able to eat a certain food, why not. we have made a choice to exclude these things from our diets and we benefit greatly from doing so. not only are we leaner but we also sleep and recover better.

stick to your guns. believe that the almighty government is looking out for your best interest. we instead will question the information thats being fed to us and eliminate nutrient-empty foods that contain gluten. it is sad that the modern medicine community as well as many fitness minded individuals choose to ignore that there is more research about nutrition besides Ancel Keys's Lipid Hypothesis of 1951.
 
EasyEJL

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At no point did I cite grains as the cause of obesity. Is it part of the problem, yes, but it is not the entire picture. Plus, the grains of today are doused in god knows what and highly GE.
Yeah, part of the problem of this discussion is that among the different paleo supporters each of you has made some different claims for different things so its somewhat difficult to pose a question forcing clarification from everyone at once :)

A few of the others have stated carbs and/or grains as the cause of obesity, and basically the middle east + asia use rice as well as beans as a major portion of their diet, and don't have as high incidence of diabetes, obesity etc as we do. And even given some change to the amount of diabetes, obesity, etc its all relatively recent. India has a population 3-4x the USA and has a primarily grain/legume diet. They have a roughly 12% obesity rate now, about 1/3 the USA. The us has around a 13% diabetes rate, India about 7%. They make up 1/4 of the planet's population more or less.
 
AntonG42O

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you are not taking into account other things. its not JUST the grains. americans are fatter because we also eat hydrogenated fats and huge portions. we drive everywhere and hardly ever cook at home. countries that eat grains are still unhealthy. just because they arent walking around walmart weighing 350 doesnt mean they dont suffer from the same ailments. you cant seriously think that its just the portions and lack of activity thats causing obesity, and not the food itself.
 
JudoJosh

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Sometime next week I will be posting a general write up on the paleo diet along with plenty of studies and a quick FAQ on it.

It won't be the be all to end all for debating it but it will give everyone a general idea of what it consist of and the various health benefits that can be achieved through this way of eating.

There seems to be a growing interest of this diet and I think this will help explain some things a tad clearer and also can be used as a reference point to those who are interested.

Plus this way I won't be accused of "promoting another business" anymore as I will simply reference that post when the topic of paleo or grain consumption is brought up.
 

MakaveliThaDon

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so....nobody had any input on the validity of the claim that you lose the nutritional content of potatoes when you steam them. Is anyone able to elaborate a bit more on that claim?
 
AntonG42O

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so....nobody had any input on the validity of the claim that you lose the nutritional content of potatoes when you steam them. Is anyone able to elaborate a bit more on that claim?
there is not a ton of nutrients in the potatoes. we eat them primarily to replenish glycogen when needed.
 
EasyEJL

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you are not taking into account other things. its not JUST the grains. americans are fatter because we also eat hydrogenated fats and huge portions. we drive everywhere and hardly ever cook at home. countries that eat grains are still unhealthy. just because they arent walking around walmart weighing 350 doesnt mean they dont suffer from the same ailments. you cant seriously think that its just the portions and lack of activity thats causing obesity, and not the food itself.
I actually seriously do believe that. The food doesn't help, as now there are more foods that are more calorically dense being sold but that just adds to the total caloric intake. the specific of what the foods are doesn't particularly matter that much. Sure a dunkin donut is much worse than a slice of bread, or a bagel with cream cheese but its primarily due to density of calories and a person who has a 2000 calorie a day bmr + activity level perpetually eating 2300-2500 calories a day. 40 years ago the average home didn't have bags of potato chips, cookies, individually wrapped cakes, etc in the house all of which are high fat combined with high carb for a dense calorie package. Before that a likelier snack would have been 2 pieces of bread with some meat leftover from dinner, or a fruit or a glass of milk. something between 100-300 calories. now that afternoon snack is a 300 calorie bag of chips, a 100 calorie coke and 200 calories of cookies.

Using your same paleo justification metaphor, evolution designed us to be omnivores, eating whatever was handy so that we never had to worry about being unable to get enough caloric content in even though hunting was lousy. Our teeth are designed for crushing and mashing as well as cutting, so that all caloric sources are available to us.
 
AntonG42O

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I actually seriously do believe that. The food doesn't help, as now there are more foods that are more calorically dense being sold but that just adds to the total caloric intake. the specific of what the foods are doesn't particularly matter that much. Sure a dunkin donut is much worse than a slice of bread, or a bagel with cream cheese but its primarily due to density of calories and a person who has a 2000 calorie a day bmr + activity level perpetually eating 2300-2500 calories a day. 40 years ago the average home didn't have bags of potato chips, cookies, individually wrapped cakes, etc in the house all of which are high fat combined with high carb for a dense calorie package. Before that a likelier snack would have been 2 pieces of bread with some meat leftover from dinner, or a fruit or a glass of milk. something between 100-300 calories. now that afternoon snack is a 300 calorie bag of chips, a 100 calorie coke and 200 calories of cookies.

Using your same paleo justification metaphor, evolution designed us to be omnivores, eating whatever was handy so that we never had to worry about being unable to get enough caloric content in even though hunting was lousy. Our teeth are designed for crushing and mashing as well as cutting, so that all caloric sources are available to us.
exactly, the evolution just didnt design us to eat GRAINS! we didnt do this until 10000 or so years ago. our teeth are designed to eat meat, wild fruits and vegetables, to crack nuts. ahhh i gotta actually do some work, id love to sit in this thread all day.
 

corsaking

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I will openly state that people have been eating wrong for centuries and not just decades. Every nutritionist that I have spoken to all stick to the same template that is archaic information. Hell, how many fat nutritionists are out there? In my experience, there are many.

As stated before, the government is the worst source for information regarding nutrition. Much of the USDA is made up of former executives of food conglomerates that are still on the payroll. You can't honestly think that there is not some behind the scenes action. If people want to choose to eat like **** and live in ignorance, then that's their choice and I honestly could care less. However, it is stubborn, ignorant people like you that make it ok for people to abuse their bodies and ruin their health.
its not a case of being ignorant or stubborn , if you had less of an attitude you might have got somewhere. Not once did you enquire what i was eating , your rant at me has all been based on an assumption ,
as for personal abuse, where do you want to start -self harm , drugs, alcohol the list goes on .those are the areas that require attention and probably come higher up the govt agenda than getting everyone to eat differently.
you come out with statements and not once have you provided any back up to support them -." Much of the USDA is made up of former executives of food conglomerates that are still on the payroll."Come up with facts , then i can believe them

Another statement that lacks support is "there is not a ton of nutrients in the potatoes. we eat them primarily to replenish glycogen when needed.
Glycogen replenishment i accept , but a potatoe is a source of potassium and vit c

Your eating culture in the US from what ive seen is different to the UK
We do have our Macdonalds and KFCs but you dont get a row of fast food places lining the highway and you certainly dont get the portions that are on offer in the US .
Our pub food is homemade especially in the villages and to some extent in towns Vegetables /meat would come from a local farmer and to some extent is organic .Even the larger supermarkets provide organic and local produce.

This may be going off topic slightly but i hope it illustrates that in the main id like to think that the UK has healthier eating habits than the US .Im not saying we dont have obese kids or adults , we do but i blame that on inactivity and a tendency to take the easy option and eat a pizza or similar, in front of the tv , and an evening of snacking.

I think too our govt and the National Health service have made quite clear and very well too what we should be eating After all if they can keep people well then its not taxing the resources of the NHS which provides free medical care but is paid for indirectly through taxation

so where were we=please dont call me stubborn and please dont call me ignorant , you clearly feel very strongly about this , but if you say your govt is at fault , then its them that need educating more importantly than members of this forum
 
DaJaP

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It's excessive, processed carbs in conjunction with a sedentary lifestyle and total-body inflammation. The traditional Japanese diet also uses much more fish and vegetables, both which curtail inflammation.

You also have to remember that the Japanese population is the exception and not the rule. They have the highest number of centurions in the world with a higher life expectancy and quality of life. More or less, the plight of obesity applies to "Western" countries, but that does not mean that it is not happening over world.

What the Primal/Paleo philosophy encompasses is how our digestive system was designed to work. The human body is adept at survival and people forget that insulin production is meant to be low. The best way to keep insulin low is by not consuming an excessive amount of carbs by eating fat and protein as the primary source of calories.

This is more of a personal thing, but I feel as though it you must have grains, then rice is the way to go because it is only slightly acidic and is gluten free. However, these should also be used sparingly and not as the backbone of your diet.
dont get me wrong, lazy people who down donuts n stuff all day are clearly a waste of space on this planet, aha. I'm just saying everyones body works differently, especially depending on race and geographic location of you and your distant relatives. As anton said, waaaaay back in the day we just ate animals and vegetation, which is understand. But the human body has become accustom to eating starches since they've become a regular part of meals for quite some time. Some people even depended on them, i.e. irish potato famine, lol. The paleo diet is interesting and sounds like it'd be sick for cutting. I'll def be reaidng into it more, as i always find its good to attempt to incorporate ideas from other diets and see how they work for me.
 
JudoJosh

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its not a case of being ignorant or stubborn , if you had less of an attitude you might have got somewhere. Not once did you enquire what i was eating , your rant at me has all been based on an assumption ,
as for personal abuse, where do you want to start -self harm , drugs, alcohol the list goes on .those are the areas that require attention and probably come higher up the govt agenda than getting everyone to eat differently.
you come out with statements and not once have you provided any back up to support them -." Much of the USDA is made up of former executives of food conglomerates that are still on the payroll."Come up with facts , then i can believe them
I fail to see an instance where anyone was granting at you or telling you what to eat. All the comments were made in responses of questions that were asked. You sir came in on the attack trying to disprove or discredit the things we were saying. So where do you get the idea that someone should ask you what your diet is? I didn't see you ask any diet questions. You goal in this threads seems to try and discredit our nutritional beliefs. Instead why don't you offer what you feel is helpful advice to a question that is asked and not attack someones beliefs and then play the I'm being bullied card.

As to the relationships between our government. I answered this early with a example of a specific case, if you want the name I'm sure I can fond it again but in case you missed it in America GMO food is allowed to be sold and doesn't have to be labeled as such. The man responsible for proposing this no label regulation used to work for the company that is making these GMO products. You don't see a conflict of interest here?

There are countless examples of relationships between our government and these major food corporations.

For specific examples See below:

David W. Beier . . .former head of Government Affairs for
Genentech, Inc., . . .now chief domestic policy advisor to Al
Gore, Vice President of the United States.

Linda J. Fisher . . .former Assistant Administrator of the
United States Environmental Protection Agency's Office of
Pollution Prevention, Pesticides, and Toxic Substances, . . .now
Vice President of Government and Public Affairs for Monsanto
Corporation.

Michael A. Friedman, M.D. . . former acting commissioner of
the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
Department of Health and Human Services . . .now senior
vice-president for clinical affairs at G. D. Searle & Co., a
pharmaceutical division of Monsanto Corporation.

L. Val Giddings . . . former biotechnology regulator and
(biosafety) negotiator at the United States Department of
Agriculture (USDA/APHIS), . . .now Vice President for Food &
Agriculture of the Biotechnology Industry Organization (BIO).

Marcia Hale . . . former assistant to the President of the
United States and director for intergovernmental affairs, . .
.now Director of International Government Affairs for Monsanto
Corporation.

Michael (Mickey) Kantor. . . former Secretary of the United
States Department of Commerce and former Trade
Representative of the United States, . . .now member of the
board of directors of Monsanto Corporation.

Josh King . . . former director of production for White House
events, . . . now director of global communication in the
Washington, D.C. office of Monsanto Corporation.

Terry Medley . . . former administrator of the Animal and
Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) of the United States
Department of Agriculture, former chair and vice-chair of the
United States Department of Agriculture Biotechnology Council,
former member of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
food advisory committee, . . . and now Director of Regulatory
and External Affairs of Dupont Corporation's Agricultural
Enterprise.

Margaret Miller . . . former chemical laboratory supervisor for
Monsanto, . . .now Deputy Director of Human Food Safety and
Consultative Services, New Animal Drug Evaluation Office,
Center for Veterinary Medicine in the United States Food and
Drug Administration (FDA).*

Michael Phillips . . . recently with the National Academy of
Science Board on Agriculture . . . now head of regulatory affairs
for the Biotechnology Industry Organization.

William D. Ruckelshaus . . . former chief administrator of the
United States Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA), . .
.now (and for the past 12 years) a member of the board of
directors of Monsanto Corporation.

Michael Taylor . . . former legal advisor to the United States
Food and Drug Administration (FDA)'s Bureau of Medical
Devices and Bureau of Foods, later executive assistant to the
Commissioner of the FDA, . . . still later a partner at the law
firm of King & Spaulding where he supervised a nine-lawyer
group whose clients included Monsanto Agricultural Company, .
. . still later Deputy Commissioner for Policy at the United
States Food and Drug Administration, . . . and later with the
law firm of King & Spaulding. . . . now head of the
Washington, D.C. office of Monsanto Corporation.*

Lidia Watrud . . . former microbial biotechnology researcher at
Monsanto Corporation in St. Louis, Missouri, . . .now with the
United States Environmental Protection Agency Environmental
Effects Laboratory, Western Ecology Division.

Jack Watson. . .former chief of staff to the President of the
United States, Jimmy Carter, . . .now a staff lawyer with
Monsanto Corporation in Washington, D.C.

Clayton K. Yeutter . . . former Secretary of the U.S.
Department of Agriculture, former U.S. Trade Representative
(who led the U.S. team in negotiating the U.S. Canada Free
Trade Agreement and helped launch the Uruguay Round of the
GATT negotiations), now a member of the board of directors of
Mycogen Corporation, whose majority owner is Dow
AgroSciences, a wholly owned subsidiary of The Dow Chemical
Company.

Larry Zeph . . . former biologist in the Office of Prevention,
Pesticides, and Toxic Substances, U.S. Environmental
Protection Agency, . . . now Regulatory Science Manager at
Pioneer Hi-Bred International.

*Margaret Miller, Michael Taylor, and Suzanne Sechen (an FDA
"primary reviewer for all rbST and other dairy drug production applications"
) were the subjects of a U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO) investigation in
1994 for their role in the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's approval of
Posilac, Monsanto Corporation's formulation of recombinant bovine growth
hormone (rbST or rBGH). The GAO Office found "no conflicting financial
interests with respect to the drug's approval" and only "one minor deviation from
now superseded FDA regulations". (Quotations are from the 1994 GAO
report).
 
DaJaP

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seriously though, the people that are spouting ridiculous remarks and barking orders like they are without flaw need to calm the F down. You're starting to look like the preachers u see on those crazy church channels that tap ppl on the head and make them walk after 20 years of being in a wheel chair. we repspect your opinion and insight, so try leading with "i beleive", "from what i;ve seen", and not pretending your the authority on this stuff. Your diet is not perfect, so stop talking like we're all idiots for not following ur lead. And if you're that hardcore about it, grow ur own ****, raise ur own livestock since your main focus lies in health and whats best for your body. Plus, who cares about living to 100, after 75ish life is just joint pain and poopin ur pants, lol
 
EasyEJL

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And so would you think that companies would want to hire people that were amateurs about dealing in food and agriculture issues or that their prior government service would be proof and show value of their knowledge?

Or do you think that our government should be hiring people to regulate food and agriculture that have no experience in the field? Perhaps someone who was head librarian instead to lead the FDA?
 
JudoJosh

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I'm done with this debate.

From my experience when talking with someone who has a strong belief in something it is next to impossible to try and convince them of something else no matter what information you present weather it be politics, religion, or in this case nutrition. People tend to be resistant to new information and I completely understand. If you have been eating a certain way for the past 30 years along with everyone you know and that way of eating is all you were ever taught, it's hard to try and convince someone other wise. So with that I am done.

If anyone is truly interested in the diet/life style change feel free to PM me with any questions.

To everyone else thanks for the conversation it really helped kill some time at work :nana:

I guess the saying "to each their own" holds true here. If you are fine with the way you are eating and aren't plagued by the diseases most Americans are then more power to you and I wish you continued health. For those who are on medications just know some problems can be solved via dietary changes. Medications aren't always the answer, why not give it a shot? It probably better then those pills you take.

Take care everyone

Josh
 
Rodja

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And so would you think that companies would want to hire people that were amateurs about dealing in food and agriculture issues or that their prior government service would be proof and show value of their knowledge?

Or do you think that our government should be hiring people to regulate food and agriculture that have no experience in the field? Perhaps someone who was head librarian instead to lead the FDA?
I have a novel idea about food regulations and recommendations: using the highest and most respected researchers. While the current crop (no pun intended) of leaders in the area are more experienced with the lobbying and bureaucratic procedures, do you really trust their health recommendations?


If you can't see that there is a conflict of interest here, then there is no point in going any further.
 
DaJaP

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I have a novel idea about food regulations and recommendations: using the highest and most respected researchers. While the current crop (no pun intended) of leaders in the area are more experienced with the lobbying and bureaucratic procedures, do you really trust their health recommendations?


If you can't see that there is a conflict of interest here, then there is no point in going any further.
yea, pretty sure eggs went from being bad to good and back a few times, as well as high fructose corn syrup, milk, and that dangerous spinach from a few years ago, lol
 
CROWLER

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I remember a guy on TV telling people to eat food as close to the way nature gave them to us as possible.

Meaning not processed.
EDIT He liked fish but not a ton of meat, veggies and fruit. It was black and white program what was it again ????

Oh yea Jack La Lane back 50 years ago He just didn't use a fancy name like Paleo Palenti Palwhatever. lol

Leave it to humans to complicate something.

I just saw this he used to say "if man made it, don't eat it", and "if it tastes good, spit it out."
 
EasyEJL

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I have a novel idea about food regulations and recommendations: using the highest and most respected researchers. While the current crop (no pun intended) of leaders in the area are more experienced with the lobbying and bureaucratic procedures, do you really trust their health recommendations?


If you can't see that there is a conflict of interest here, then there is no point in going any further.
The highest and most respected by who? each other? The corrupt academic system? Researchers like the fine ones doing global warming research that bent data to show what they believed and wanted to show?

I don't see a conflict of interest in our government hiring experts in their fields that previously worked for large corporations. Nor do I see a conflict of interest in corporations hiring experts who were the people that created the national recommendations so as to help keep their company pointed in the direction recommended by the government. Both of those sound like smart choices rather than something that creates a conflict of interest.
 
oufinny

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The highest and most respected by who? each other? The corrupt academic system? Researchers like the fine ones doing global warming research that bent data to show what they believed and wanted to show?

I don't see a conflict of interest in our government hiring experts in their fields that previously worked for large corporations. Nor do I see a conflict of interest in corporations hiring experts who were the people that created the national recommendations so as to help keep their company pointed in the direction recommended by the government. Both of those sound like smart choices rather than something that creates a conflict of interest.
What you say in regards to good business is correct, assuming that all people are not in any way influenced or corruptible for various reasons. I see this all the time in my job as I work in procurement, many walk a fine line but still keep it on the straight and narrow (while others don't of course). When you are in a highly visible position with constant lobbying pressure and plenty of good arguments on both sides, it becomes very difficult to not be heavily influenced one way or the other.
 

MakaveliThaDon

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I think it's worth mentioning for those like me who are unwilling to give up their nuts.....pause.....walnuts are one of the few, maybe the only nut that DOES have both omega 6's AND omega 3's.
 
Nitrox

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you are not taking into account other things. its not JUST the grains. americans are fatter because we also eat hydrogenated fats and huge portions. we drive everywhere and hardly ever cook at home. countries that eat grains are still unhealthy. just because they arent walking around walmart weighing 350 doesnt mean they dont suffer from the same ailments. you cant seriously think that its just the portions and lack of activity thats causing obesity, and not the food itself.
Wow, this thread takes the cake for stupidity. It's amazing how many people cannot think beyond good/bad, yes/no, black/white - learn to analyze cause and effect before you preach.
 

croissant

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And as for your question who? The inuits. They have been studied and followed for a long time now and have next to no dieases like we do here and their diets are all rich in fat and protein with little to no carb intake
the inuits and northern native american tribes are a terrible example to compare people who descend from agricultural society... It is rather obvious that indeed agricultural peoples body has adapted. inuits and cree get really fat on western diet because they have really slow metabolisms adapted to cold climates they have a terrible alcohal tollerance and react badly to sugar carbs and milk most that I have met are extremely fat and have diabetes the reason is that people with agricultural descendents bodies have adapted since agriculture began so we can handle these things. And BTW they found grains in the icemans belly.

The thing that changed is we became sedentary and overeat and stopped eating the guts of animals.
 

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