Topic of the Week: Better Pre Workout Ingredient?

[Admin]

If you had to choose between L-Citrulline or Agmatine, what would choose and why?

 

[aaronuconn]

Agmatine, for its host of other benefits outside of pumps.

Potential nootropic-like effects
Selective nutrient partitioning
Slight mood boost
Potential impact on cAMP and fat loss

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

Agmatine, for its host of other benefits outside of pumps.

Potential nootropic-like effects
Selective nutrient partitioning
Slight mood boost
Potential impact on cAMP and fat loss

this, also while sleeping it helps for me get a deeper sleep

 

[Driven2lift]

Only one to use ever, agmatine for the multiple benefits

But pre workout for endurance effects and pump, for me personally Citrulline is an all-star Until HV release I added bulk CM to everything I used

 

[ma70]

I normally use neither, but I guess Agmatine since it can be used for other purposes too.

 

[warpyfunch]

If there can be only one, Agmatine. It's better at pretty much everything, isn't it? For me at least.

 

[aaronuconn]

If there can be only one, Agmatine. It's better at pretty much everything, isn't it? For me at least.

Citrulline has human data supporting performance so it's impossible to conclusively say Agmatine is better. Agmatine lacks the human data that a lot of look for to determine efficacy.

 

[warpyfunch]

Citrulline has human data supporting performance so it's impossible to conclusively say Agmatine is better. Agmatine lacks the human data that a lot of look for to determine efficacy.

that's fair. i've used both extensively, as i'm sure many others have, and for the sample size of just me and myself it's been pretty conclusive. that said, they're both cheap enough that i doubt i'd ever have reason to do one without the other.

 

[Admin]

Surprised a bit by the overall choice of agmatine. I do remember De__eB liking citrulline better if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Driven2lift]

Surprised a bit by the overall choice of agmatine. I do remember De__eB liking citrulline better if I'm not mistaken.

Because the thread title is pre workout, my answer was Citrulline

Its one of few things that offers a noticeable difference if I use or do not use it

 

[mw1]

Having used both regularly I notice a big difference in my workout when I use Agmatine instead of Citrulline - Endurance and pump especially

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Citrulline for me, it actually has a conceivable impact on my endurance and recovery time vs not taking it. Pumps are a bonus. Agmatine is one of those things that has a whole host of potential benefits but in my experience are not very measurable.

 

[De__eB]

Surprised a bit by the overall choice of agmatine. I do remember De__eB liking citrulline better if I'm not mistaken.

I take agmatine in the mornings these days and am generally more interested in other aspects of agmatine than the pump.

Agmatine is also possibly counterproductive with a2 stimulants.

--

It depends a lot on the product though.

I'm also a kitchen sink preworkout fan.

In big blend products, you've got room for 3...4...5...grams of citrulline per serving, at much cheaper cost than a gram of agmatine

If you're looking for a small scoop or capsule product though? Space is more valuable and going with something that's effective at a smaller dose is more important.

 

[jswain34]

I don't know if there is any validity to this, but I also believe i read somewhere that agmatine may possess some mild analgesic properties. Also, i believe it may have shown to have some data showing anxiolytic effects? Both could be useful in a pre workout/pre-contest setting.

Edit: once again, i don't have any sources for this. I just know read it somewhere (i think maybe on here).

 

[machinehead]

I like citrulline better and also benefit from it as someone with impaired ammonia detoxification. For pumps, I like glycerol better than either

 

[aaronuconn]

Agmatine is also possibly counterproductive with a2 stimulants.

Agmatine is a pretty weak A2-agonist, though, eh?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Agmatine is a pretty weak A2-agonist, though, eh?

It actually has high in vitro binding to the a2 receptor but it's plasma halflife (note: not CNS or tissue) is too short for any appreciable effects to occur. The a2 receptor, which should lower cAMP in vivo, is virtually unaffected in the murine model...in fact, agmatine RAISES cAMP in vivo

 

[aaronuconn]

It actually has high in vitro binding to the a2 receptor but it's plasma halflife (note: not CNS or tissue) is too short for any appreciable effects to occur. The a2 receptor, which should lower cAMP in vivo, is virtually unaffected in the murine model...in fact, agmatine RAISES cAMP in vivo

Okay cool. Yeah IIRC, Agmatine plasma half life is mere minutes, while CNS and tissue is upwards of 12 hours.

 

[Piston Honda]

Agmatine, because a user has previously stated that it's the "Holy Grail" of supplements, and who doesn't want to take a supplement that compares to the cup of our Blessed Savior?

 

[MidwestBeast]

Good question.

Assuming this is like all the other questions we pose and price, dose, etc. aren't considered options.

So if I'm answering this specifically focusing on pre-workout use and without a concern of cost, how long it will last based on dose, etc. (e.g. basically I have an unlimited supply of either):

I'm choosing citrulline (preferably as citrulline malate).

I like both for a number of reasons already discussed, but I have blood work from an amino acid profile that showed low arginine levels. I supplemented with citrulline malate, took the test again and was well up into the high end of normal range. My go-to pre-workout for the past year+ doesn't have citrulline in it, so I add 6g citrulline malate and love it. It has 500mg agmatine, but I didn't start using agmatine pre-workout until about that time. I currently take 500mg every morning upon rising as it has cumulative effects. Again, both have a ton of great benefits (which is why I use both), but picking only one to use and specifically pre-workout:

Citrulline >

 

[aaronuconn]

Good question.

Assuming this is like all the other questions we pose and price, dose, etc. aren't considered options.

So if I'm answering this specifically focusing on pre-workout use and without a concern of cost, how long it will last based on dose, etc. (e.g. basically I have an unlimited supply of either):

I'm choosing citrulline (preferably as citrulline malate).

I like both for a number of reasons already discussed, but I have blood work from an amino acid profile that showed low arginine levels. I supplemented with citrulline malate, took the test again and was well up into the high end of normal range. My go-to pre-workout for the past year+ doesn't have citrulline in it, so I add 6g citrulline malate and love it. It has 500mg agmatine, but I didn't start using agmatine pre-workout until about that time. I currently take 500mg every morning upon rising as it has cumulative effects. Again, both have a ton of great benefits (which is why I use both), but picking only one to use and specifically pre-workout:

Citrulline >

Why Cit. Mal instead of just straight Citrulline?

 

[ahawk01]

Gram per gram Agmatine. 4 grams of citrulline vs 1 gram Agmatine toss up.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Why Cit. Mal instead of just straight Citrulline?

Not relevant to this discussion, but in general I do love the fact that it makes my pre-workouts taste better lol. It adds the perfect amount of tartness to them to improve them. I've used bulk l-citrulline, too and I don't really know why I'm partial to cit mal unless it's just that.

 

[booneman77]

For strictly pre, citrulline for me.

Overall tho, agmatine for the host of other benefits. I have to mega dose agmatine pre for a good pump effect whereas citrulline is gold for pumps

 

[medinacirilo]

I respond much better (pump-wise) to citrulline over agmatine

 

[Hyde]

Amentoflavone - power first, baby! :fing26:

Seriously though, agmatine - I never really notice as much from L-Cit, or Cit Mal, no matter how many (or few) grams I take, but 1-2g of Agmatine really lets me create some exceptional pumpage & vascularity. I don't notice a big enough difference in endurance between the two to bother rating them on that.

 

[aaronuconn]

Not relevant to this discussion, but in general I do love the fact that it makes my pre-workouts taste better lol. It adds the perfect amount of tartness to them to improve them. I've used bulk l-citrulline, too and I don't really know why I'm partial to cit mal unless it's just that.

lol, agreed! I used to go 6g of Cit. Mal with a scoop of Focus XT. Love the taste.

 

[jabroni]

This is close, but I give the edge to citrulline if dosed properly. When underdosed, it's worthless for me, but I love it when I get a full 6-8 grams of CM.

 

[Lexonis]

preffer Citrulline Malate. I get the painfull pumps from Agmatine and I need to dose 1g everyday to see the pump benefits and its still a expensive ingredient

 

[alexoc949]

i don't have much experience with agmatine, ran it once.. wasn't impressed.. maybe will have to run it again

but cit malate definitely for endurance and pump.

 

[money0351]

On a side note.... Has anyone seen this profile

 

[plifter42]

Both obviously give me nice pumps, but citrulline malate never fails me, kind of like creatine mono in that sense. Works every time and some products underdose agmatine... just my .02

 

[Lexonis]

that's the new version from Dedicated VasoGrow

 

[money0351]

that's the new version from Dedicated VasoGrow

Yeah, I saw it last night. I've never heard of that company and the price point isn't as outrageous as I thought it would be considering it's 50 servings

 

[AaronJP1]

I'll give the nod to citrulline, as I think I respond better to that over agmatine.