GHenerate vs PowerFULL

[Whacked]

Anyone try both?

Please provide feedback on the comparison between the two.

Thanks

 

[matthias7]

They are different and both are good.

You need to cycle both. So using one and then the other would work.

PowerFull is less dangerous than G. If you use Gen. follow the instructions exactly.

With PowerFull you can't mess up.

 

[Whacked]

Whoa....please elaborate

PowerFull is less dangerous than G. If you use Gen. follow the instructions exactly.

.

 

[freezito]

if ur going to make such a bold statement please elaborate

 

[matthias7]

... :dunno:

Ghen. if my memory serves me has phenibut in it. Enough said?

 

[freezito]

thanks for the info, doing some research on the subject

 

[UNCnate]

They are different and both are good.

You need to cycle both. So using one and then the other would work.

PowerFull is less dangerous than G. If you use Gen. follow the instructions exactly.

With PowerFull you can't mess up.

What?

How is GHenerate dangerous?

 

[Craigmatthew]

What?

How is GHenerate dangerous?

huh? In no way is it dangerous if used correctly.

 

[UNCnate]

huh? In no way is it dangerous if used correctly.

This I know. I was wondering how one could make such a leap.

GHenerate also doesnt have phenibut, either.

 

[Craigmatthew]

This I know. I was wondering how one could make such a leap.

GHenerate also doesnt have phenibut, either.

Exactly.....strange reasoning. Oh well, lets clear this up. It's NOT dangerous

 

[Liftergym33]

Yea^^, Not sure where in the world that came from?

 

[freezito]

thanks for clearing this up guys

 

[Outside Backer]

lookin at my bottle i see no phenibut

 

[rocketman123]

I ran powerFULL before I started running gear and to tell you the truth, I didnt get much out of it especially for how much i paid for it... Just my .02

 

[freezito]

Comparing powerfull to gear? R u crazy? Powerfull isn't going to give u anything close to that so if that's what u were exspecting, ur misinformed on what it does

 

[rocketman123]

Ha no i was just comparing. It is a GH booster is it not? and its natural so yeah its not going to be as good as the real stuff. i did feel better in the gym but to do the cycle as they say, you have to get like 3 bottles of it along with all their other stuff which his what I did and for how much it cost me, I would have been better off just going with PHs. But if you are staying natural then I guess it would give you better workouts than nothing at all!

 

[svtfocusman]

I have been taking GHenerate for close to 7 weeks at 8 sprays 2 times a day and have felt no side harsh effects, plus I have noticed I have been getting better sleep while on it. *The rec. dose is 6 sprays*

 

[UNCnate]

I have been taking GHenerate for close to 7 weeks at 8 sprays 2 times a day and have felt no side harsh effects, plus I have noticed I have been getting better sleep while on it. *The rec. dose is 6 sprays*

What else have you noticed?

 

[svtfocusman]

What else have you noticed?

I started taking GHenerate w/ I-Gh-1 1 week before starting the 'Trifecta Stack' as far as results only from GHenerate goes, I am unsure at the moment. I noticed better sleep as I was not too much of a morning person prior to taking the product due to feeling so tired, but feel well rested each morning. I have been off of the Trifecta Stack for 3 days now and will see if I can notice anything or not with only the GHenerate as the week progresses. I am in a complete off cycle right now and will be able to fully monitor only the GHenerate to get a complete idea on the benefits.

I was not aware of PowerFULL before and after reading some reviews it may be a product worth trying. It has a few bad reviews but with everything else not every product works for all. It also looks like these are two completely different products and if you could stack them together you would have one killer product.

 

[MAxximal]

GHenerate up the libido?

 

[monstermash]

GHenerate up the libido?

Not that i've noticed.

It has given me insane pumps during w/o and my shoulder pains went away! So far i really like it and will run again.(FYI-haven't gone above rec. dose)

I was wondering how long i could run this?

 

[Craigmatthew]

Not that i've noticed.

It has given me insane pumps during w/o and my shoulder pains went away! So far i really like it and will run again.(FYI-haven't gone above rec. dose)

I was wondering how long i could run this?

You could run this long term really using the 5 on 2 off protocol, months really.

 

[MAxximal]

but why people says G is bad? i use PowerFULL right now straight maybe for 3 months the product is outstanding for deep sleep and ULTRA VIVID DREAMS sometimes but IMO i not noticed nothing bad with PF.

p.s. i got the stack of GHenerate / I-Gh-1 and planing use soon!

 

[strategicmove]

Ha no i was just comparing. It is a GH booster is it not? and its natural so yeah its not going to be as good as the real stuff. i did feel better in the gym but to do the cycle as they say, you have to get like 3 bottles of it along with all their other stuff which his what I did and for how much it cost me, I would have been better off just going with PHs. But if you are staying natural then I guess it would give you better workouts than nothing at all!

You do not have to stack PowerFULL "with all their other stuff", and you do not need three bottles of it to obtain its benefits.

 

[MAxximal]

You do not have to stack PowerFULL "with all their other stuff", and you do not need three bottles of it to obtain its benefits.

agreed

ever i used PF i wake up hornier....

 

[matthias7]

This I know. I was wondering how one could make such a leap.

GHenerate also doesnt have phenibut, either.

Hydroxy Propyl Beta Cyclodextrin
Puerarin 98%
GHRP - Marus Alba Extract

Okay, I confused it with Somnidren Millenium Tec. which has phenibut in it.

I need to check out GHenerate because I ain't sure about any of these ingredients. Looks interesting.

 

[matthias7]

Marus Alba chinese herb - promotes urination. Okay that'll be affecting the ah... I forget the hormone.... annoying. Gotta dash. Remembered vasopressin.

 

[DAdams91982]

Marus Alba chinese herb - promotes urination. Okay that'll be affecting the ah... I forget the hormone.... annoying. Gotta dash. Remembered vasopressin.

Suppressing the ADH? (Anti Diuretic Hormone)

Edit: Nevermind, apparently skipped your last statement.

 

[DAdams91982]

Interesting

[Estrogen-like effects of puerarin and total isoflavones from Pueraria lobata]

[Article in Chinese]

Zheng G, Zhang X, Zheng J, Meng Q, Zheng D.

Institute of Metaria Medica, Zhejiang Academy of Medical Sciences, Hangzhou 210013.

OBJECTIVE: To study the estrogen-like effects of puerarin and total isoflavones from Pueraria lobata (TIP) in vivo. METHODS: Puerarin and TIP were orally administrated to ovariectomized rats, infancy or adult mice and estrogen-treated mice at the doses of 150, 300 and 600 mg/kg for 5-9 days. The estrogen-like effects were measured by viginacytology and uterus or ovary weights. RESULTS: Puerarin and TIP significantly promoted uterus growth in ovariectomized rats and infancy mice, increased the ratios of keratocytes in vaginal smear in ovariectomized rats. The sexual cycle was partially recovered in dose-dependent manner. In E2-treated mice, puerarin and TIP obviously inhibited the growth of vigina induced by E2. No obvious effect was observed in normal adult mice. CONCLUSION: The results showed that puerarin and TIP acted as weak estrogen-like effect on estrogen-deficiency animals, while no effect on normal-estrogen level ones, but as antiestrogen-like effect in high-estrogen-level ones. These results suggested that puerarin and TIP possessed property of partial agonist of estrogen receptor.

 

[Craigmatthew]

Interesting

[Estrogen-like effects of puerarin and total isoflavones from Pueraria lobata]

[Article in Chinese]

Zheng G, Zhang X, Zheng J, Meng Q, Zheng D.

Institute of Metaria Medica, Zhejiang Academy of Medical Sciences, Hangzhou 210013.

OBJECTIVE: To study the estrogen-like effects of puerarin and total isoflavones from Pueraria lobata (TIP) in vivo. METHODS: Puerarin and TIP were orally administrated to ovariectomized rats, infancy or adult mice and estrogen-treated mice at the doses of 150, 300 and 600 mg/kg for 5-9 days. The estrogen-like effects were measured by viginacytology and uterus or ovary weights. RESULTS: Puerarin and TIP significantly promoted uterus growth in ovariectomized rats and infancy mice, increased the ratios of keratocytes in vaginal smear in ovariectomized rats. The sexual cycle was partially recovered in dose-dependent manner. In E2-treated mice, puerarin and TIP obviously inhibited the growth of vigina induced by E2. No obvious effect was observed in normal adult mice. CONCLUSION: The results showed that puerarin and TIP acted as weak estrogen-like effect on estrogen-deficiency animals, while no effect on normal-estrogen level ones, but as antiestrogen-like effect in high-estrogen-level ones. These results suggested that puerarin and TIP possessed property of partial agonist of estrogen receptor.

Interesting find man

 

[UNCnate]

Interesting

[Estrogen-like effects of puerarin and total isoflavones from Pueraria lobata]

[Article in Chinese]

Zheng G, Zhang X, Zheng J, Meng Q, Zheng D.

Institute of Metaria Medica, Zhejiang Academy of Medical Sciences, Hangzhou 210013.

OBJECTIVE: To study the estrogen-like effects of puerarin and total isoflavones from Pueraria lobata (TIP) in vivo. METHODS: Puerarin and TIP were orally administrated to ovariectomized rats, infancy or adult mice and estrogen-treated mice at the doses of 150, 300 and 600 mg/kg for 5-9 days. The estrogen-like effects were measured by viginacytology and uterus or ovary weights. RESULTS: Puerarin and TIP significantly promoted uterus growth in ovariectomized rats and infancy mice, increased the ratios of keratocytes in vaginal smear in ovariectomized rats. The sexual cycle was partially recovered in dose-dependent manner. In E2-treated mice, puerarin and TIP obviously inhibited the growth of vigina induced by E2. No obvious effect was observed in normal adult mice. CONCLUSION: The results showed that puerarin and TIP acted as weak estrogen-like effect on estrogen-deficiency animals, while no effect on normal-estrogen level ones, but as antiestrogen-like effect in high-estrogen-level ones. These results suggested that puerarin and TIP possessed property of partial agonist of estrogen receptor.

What are you suggesting?

 

[DAdams91982]

What are you suggesting?

You sound defensive for some reason.

It is interesting that this is an estrogen receptor agonist with differentiating properties with regard to ones physiology and the idea should be researched more. The compound alone looks like an estrogen receptor agonist. Who knows how this will interact with someones fluctuating hormones from or off a cycle.

 

[matthias7]

Hmm.. pro-estrogen is not cool. Still it is just mice.

I know only very basic Chinese medicine. Is it the berries or the bark that is used in Ghen.? Thats quite important for its properties (wiki)

 

[UNCnate]

You sound defensive for some reason.

It is interesting that this is an estrogen receptor agonist with differentiating properties with regard to ones physiology and the idea should be researched more. The compound alone looks like an estrogen receptor agonist. Who knows how this will interact with someones fluctuating hormones from or off a cycle.

Not defensive at all. Not an AI product .

I think it is important to note the conclusion and not just the title.

 

[DAdams91982]

Not defensive at all. Not an AI product .

I think it is important to note the conclusion and not just the title.

I agree. I bring it up because of other factors that come with the population that will be utilizing this. If it is around a cycle, your HPTA is all jacked up and having high estrogen may not exactly respond the same way as an average person would to the compound.

I brought it up to hopefully facilitate discussion on it.

 

[UNCnate]

Hmm.. pro-estrogen is not cool. Still it is just mice.

I know only very basic Chinese medicine. Is it the berries or the bark that is used in Ghen.? Thats quite important for its properties (wiki)

It was only "pro-estrogen" in the low estrogen condition.

Based on the conclusion there is no reason to think that under normal hormonal circumstances this would act as an estrogen agonist.

 

[DAdams91982]

It was only "pro-estrogen" in the low estrogen condition.

Based on the conclusion there is no reason to think that under normal hormonal circumstances this would act as an estrogen agonist.

Again, how many people here have any type of normal hormonal conditions? Look at the structure itself an it looks pro-estrogenic at the receptor.

 

[DAdams91982]

Biotransformation of C-glucosylisoflavone puerarin to estrogenic (3S)-equol in co-culture of two human intestinal bacteria.

Jin JS, Nishihata T, Kakiuchi N, Hattori M.

Institute of Natural Medicine, University of Toyama, Toyama, Japan.

Puerarin and daidzein are the major naturally occurring isoflavones in leguminous plants. These two compounds are metabolized to equol by human intestinal flora. Here we isolated two intestinal bacteria capable of metabolizing puerarin and daidzein, respectively, from human feces. One of them, strain PUE, converted puerarin to daidzein by cleaving a C-glucosyl bond, whereas the other, strain DZE, converted daidzein to equol by reducing a double bond in ring C followed by elimination of an oxo group. Based on the 16S ribosomal RNA gene sequence, strain DZE showed 85% similarity with Eggerthella lenta. Equol produced by strain DZE was identified as (3S)-equol through several analytical methods. Moreover, we obtained (3S)-equol from puerarin by co-incubation with strain PUE and DZE. In addition, 5-hydroxyequol was obtained from genistein by incubation with strain DZE.

 

[DAdams91982]

Mechanism of phytoestrogen puerarin-mediated cytoprotection following oxidative injury: estrogen receptor-dependent up-regulation of PI3K/Akt and HO-1.

Hwang YP, Jeong HG.

Department of Pharmacy, College of Pharmacy, Research Center for Proteineous Materials, Chosun University, Gwangju 501-759, Republic of Korea.

Phytoestrogens are polyphenolic non-steroidal plant compounds with estrogen-like biological activity. The phytoestrogen puerarin, the main isoflavone glycoside found in the root of Pueraria lobata, has been used for various medicinal purposes in traditional Chinese medicines for thousands of years. Recent studies have indicated that the estrogen receptor (ER), through interaction with p85, regulates phosphoinositide 3-kinase (PI3K) activity, revealing a physiologic, non-nuclear function of ER that may be relevant in cytoprotection. In this study, we demonstrate that the phytoestrogen puerarin inhibits tert-butyl hydroperoxide (t-BHP)-induced oxidative injury via an ER-dependent Gbeta1/PI3K/Akt and heme oxygenase-1 (HO-1) pathway. Pretreatment of Hepa1c1c7 and HepG2 cells with puerarin significantly reduced t-BHP-induced caspase-3 activation and subsequent cell death. Also, puerarin up-regulated HO-1 expression and this expression conferred cytoprotection against oxidative injury induced by t-BHP. Moreover, puerarin induced Nrf2 nuclear translocation, which is upstream of puerarin-induced HO-1 expression, and PI3K activation, a pathway that is involved in induced Nrf2 nuclear translocation, HO-1 expression and cytoprotection. Puerarin-induced up-regulation of HO-1 and cytoprotection against t-BHP were abolished by silencing Nrf2 expression with specific siRNA. Also, puerarin-mediated increases in PI3K activation and HO-1 induction were reversed by co-treatment with ICI 182,780 and pertussis toxin. Taken together, these results suggest that puerarin augments cellular antioxidant defense capacity through ER-dependent HO-1 induction via the Gbeta1/PI3K/Akt-Nrf2 signaling pathway, thereby protecting cells from oxidative stress.

 

[DAdams91982]

It is a phytoestrogen in itself that up regulates the estrogen receptor. Hence my intrigue on the matter.

 

[UNCnate]

It is a phytoestrogen in itself that up regulates the estrogen receptor. Hence my intrigue on the matter.

Maybe someone should PM LG and get him in here.

 

[DAdams91982]

Maybe someone should PM LG and get him in here.

I personally was hoping to get the views of someone much smarter than myself, aside from LG. It's like asking AX why Slim-X is safe.

 

[zb126]

I personally was hoping to get the views of someone much smarter than myself, aside from LG. It's like asking AX why Slim-X is safe.

So I'm not saying this is necessarily correct but that estrogen like effect study result was from one where they also explained effects on the mice uterus so it may be the case that it has a different function on females but the other conclusion that there was no effect for normal levels would lead me to believe it is not a pro-estrogen.

That said, I'm glancing at the other two studies posted and aside from calling it a phyto-estrogen I didn't see it mention estrogenic effects. I will need to do some more research obviously to fully understand but based on the below segment of the write up I would suggest the possibility that it possibly acts as an estrogen receptor antagonist rather than an agonist, meaning it may bind but does not elicit a biological function. I could be totally wrong on this so I'd like a definite answer but describing it as having AI and SERM like activity and studies calling it a phytoestrogen immediately made me think it could be a estrogen receptor antagonist....but like I said, lets get someone who knows for sure to explain



"Puerariae Radix is a plant that has one particular constituent that is set to be the next superstar. It is called puerarin! Puerarin is an amazing nutrient that shows a 520% increase in growth hormone release (1) by stimulating the GHRH receptor. This ingredient was an amazing find but the key is the liquid "under the tongue" bioavailability which makes it biologically active. 520% increase in circulating GH is a HUGE increase and shows that this second pathway is very potent at releasing GH. We use only 98% pure puerarin complexed with cyclodextrin in our formula so it is ultra potent. Puerarin has also been shown to be an anti-aromatase, and a natural SERM, but this is not the main effect, compared to the GHRH stimulation, just a side benefit (3, 4). Finally, this wonder ingredient is a natural phosphoinositol 3 kinase (PI3K) stimulator which is the same anabolic pathway stimulated by IGF-1 and insulin to load the muscle with glycogen. I have to say, even I am impressed by this amazing material. GHRH stimulation, Aromatase Inhibition, natural SERM activity AND PI3K activity! Jackpot!"

 

[DAdams91982]

So I'm not saying this is necessarily correct but that estrogen like effect study result was from one where they also explained effects on the mice uterus so it may be the case that it has a different function on females but the other conclusion that there was no effect for normal levels would lead me to believe it is not a pro-estrogen.

That said, I'm glancing at the other two studies posted and aside from calling it a phyto-estrogen I didn't see it mention estrogenic effects. I will need to do some more research obviously to fully understand but based on the below segment of the write up I would suggest the possibility that it possibly acts as an estrogen receptor antagonist rather than an agonist, meaning it may bind but does not elicit a biological function. I could be totally wrong on this so I'd like a definite answer but describing it as having AI and SERM like activity and studies calling it a phytoestrogen immediately made me think it could be a estrogen receptor antagonist....but like I said, lets get someone who knows for sure to explain



"Puerariae Radix is a plant that has one particular constituent that is set to be the next superstar. It is called puerarin! Puerarin is an amazing nutrient that shows a 520% increase in growth hormone release (1) by stimulating the GHRH receptor. This ingredient was an amazing find but the key is the liquid "under the tongue" bioavailability which makes it biologically active. 520% increase in circulating GH is a HUGE increase and shows that this second pathway is very potent at releasing GH. We use only 98% pure puerarin complexed with cyclodextrin in our formula so it is ultra potent. Puerarin has also been shown to be an anti-aromatase, and a natural SERM, but this is not the main effect, compared to the GHRH stimulation, just a side benefit (3, 4). Finally, this wonder ingredient is a natural phosphoinositol 3 kinase (PI3K) stimulator which is the same anabolic pathway stimulated by IGF-1 and insulin to load the muscle with glycogen. I have to say, even I am impressed by this amazing material. GHRH stimulation, Aromatase Inhibition, natural SERM activity AND PI3K activity! Jackpot!"

Yeah, I agree with some of your thoughts, that is why i brought it up.. there is alot of different information on this compound.

I posted the second study that showed when the intestinal flora cleaved the C-glucosyl bond and some other conversion pathway it converted it the estrogenic equol, but again, need someone with some high chemistry background.

Where is Natty when you need him.

 

[zb126]

Yeah, I agree with some of your thoughts, that is why i brought it up.. there is alot of different information on this compound.

I posted the second study that showed when the intestinal flora cleaved the C-glucosyl bond and some other conversion pathway it converted it the estrogenic equol, but again, need someone with some high chemistry background.

Where is Natty when you need him.

repped and yeah I stopped after organic chem 2 and two semesters of biochemistry... was getting to be a little too much for my bio major, haha

 

[matthias7]

Its a good discussion thats for sure.

Until we know whether its the bark or the berry we dunno what its doing. If LG Science can't answer that its a bit worrying.

The release in growth hormone plus the possible increased urination makes me think its a bit like Mucana puriens. Having a dopamine precursor which often converts to dopamine before it can cross the BBB increases urination (I'm running Powerfull right now and I get the feeling thats whats going on).

The reason I'm focussing on this is that it ain't easy to regulate otherwise because of the critical role of maintaining osmolarity.

The problem I have with this herb is that it seems very basic with Chinese medicine - its sounds like a "promoting yin" herb. Ginseng in contrast is "hot" boosting "yang".

It could be the extract used is very Mucana puriens like. Thats what LG appear to be saying but if you can't tell us whether its the berry or the bark.... its a bit like having coffee leaves and saying they are the same thing as coffee beans.

 

[fanzdslpwr]

can women take Ghenerate?

 

[matthias7]

The problem is we don't know what one of the key herbs is doing.

From my point of view they've got a herb (which I've never heard of until now) which does all sorts in Chinese medicine - none of which could be identified as increasing hGH - except possibly urination. LG have taken an extract from it - who knows what its doing, a phyto-estrogen?. This stuff - "tonifies the blood" (wiki) sounds like all the other yin characteristics "cool upwards fire" "cools the blood" "strengthens the kidneys" and so on.

If they really have an improved 1-carboxy then sure. If will boost dopamine levels and somehow that causes the pituarity to secret hGH. The P-T axis is complex but thats pretty straight forward. So yeah I don't see why not.

What concerns me is you really have to know what you are doing if you messing with Chinese medicine. IMO Chinese medicine is potent but you've got to understand it - e.g. can something be used long term (not alot of Chinese medicine can be used indefinately) - medium term etc... Cordyceps, ginseng, Fo-Ti, (perhaps) Sheng di Huang, Gota kola we think we understand (obviously not as well as the Chinese). Thats just a fraction of oriental herbs most of which are combined.

 

[matthias7]

I'd need to look at this in some detail but I ain't sure its a known journal. It ain't Seoul Uni.

Gene silencing is iRNA language. Okay they are using siRNA - cool. It means its a serious study. I'd need to see the original paper to see what they are up to. Its years since I did biochem.

They are using an established cell line - this is in vitro. It may not translate in vivo/ in situ at all.

It is an interesting publication and says in a test tube this plant messes around with estrogens.

Mechanism of phytoestrogen puerarin-mediated cytoprotection following oxidative injury: estrogen receptor-dependent up-regulation of PI3K/Akt and HO-1.

Hwang YP, Jeong HG.

Department of Pharmacy, College of Pharmacy, Research Center for Proteineous Materials, Chosun University, Gwangju 501-759, Republic of Korea.

Phytoestrogens are polyphenolic non-steroidal plant compounds with estrogen-like biological activity. The phytoestrogen puerarin, the main isoflavone glycoside found in the root of Pueraria lobata, has been used for various medicinal purposes in traditional Chinese medicines for thousands of years. Recent studies have indicated that the estrogen receptor (ER), through interaction with p85, regulates phosphoinositide 3-kinase (PI3K) activity, revealing a physiologic, non-nuclear function of ER that may be relevant in cytoprotection. In this study, we demonstrate that the phytoestrogen puerarin inhibits tert-butyl hydroperoxide (t-BHP)-induced oxidative injury via an ER-dependent Gbeta1/PI3K/Akt and heme oxygenase-1 (HO-1) pathway. Pretreatment of Hepa1c1c7 and HepG2 cells with puerarin significantly reduced t-BHP-induced caspase-3 activation and subsequent cell death. Also, puerarin up-regulated HO-1 expression and this expression conferred cytoprotection against oxidative injury induced by t-BHP. Moreover, puerarin induced Nrf2 nuclear translocation, which is upstream of puerarin-induced HO-1 expression, and PI3K activation, a pathway that is involved in induced Nrf2 nuclear translocation, HO-1 expression and cytoprotection. Puerarin-induced up-regulation of HO-1 and cytoprotection against t-BHP were abolished by silencing Nrf2 expression with specific siRNA. Also, puerarin-mediated increases in PI3K activation and HO-1 induction were reversed by co-treatment with ICI 182,780 and pertussis toxin. Taken together, these results suggest that puerarin augments cellular antioxidant defense capacity through ER-dependent HO-1 induction via the Gbeta1/PI3K/Akt-Nrf2 signaling pathway, thereby protecting cells from oxidative stress.

 

[matthias7]

I personally was hoping to get the views of someone much smarter than myself, aside from LG.

Good luck with that.