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Will you go see "Religulous"?

Will you go see "Religulous"?

  • Yes

    Votes: 32 60.4%
  • No

    Votes: 17 32.1%
  • Don't Care

    Votes: 4 7.5%

  • Total voters
    53
Most athiests think they're smarter or took some gigantic leap in thought by having faith that there is no God. Most conversations about religion with an athiest end with them making some kind of statement about the other groups IQ.

The only thing that frustrates me is why people with religion think its necessary for me to explain why I don't believe in something I can't see, hear, smell, taste, or touch.....as if that wasn't enough.

Seem like the onus should be on those who believe in god to explain how they came to that conclusion.

EVERY conversation on religion I ever had came down to the George Michael line, "You gotta have Faith Faith Faith!":dance:
 
The only thing that frustrates me is why people with religion think its necessary for me to explain why I don't believe in something I can't see, hear, smell, taste, or touch.....as if that wasn't enough.

Seem like the onus should be on those who believe in god to explain how they came to that conclusion.

EVERY conversation on religion I ever had came down to the George Michael line, "You gotta have Faith Faith Faith!":dance:
What if somebody told you it can be felt, would you believe that?
 
Sure. I don't doubt that other people feel it.
When I was reborn...crazy huh, I never figured it would happen to me, I got a big feeling I'd call it to say the least. It didn't go away for a long time, it gets replaced by a stronger "force" over time. But every once in a while something around you triggers a "feeling" (kinda a dumb word for it) that can fill you up with strenght you can't describe, or in some cases rip your heart out and drop you to your knee's.

But guess what a lot of time you just got to have FAITH :).

It ended like you predicted.
 
Most conversations about religion with an athiest end with them making some kind of statement about the other groups IQ.

isn't that on par with an athiest being told they'll burn in hell?

i am not athiest btw.
 
The only thing that frustrates me is why people with religion think its necessary for me to explain why I don't believe in something I can't see, hear, smell, taste, or touch.....as if that wasn't enough.

Seem like the onus should be on those who believe in god to explain how they came to that conclusion.

EVERY conversation on religion I ever had came down to the George Michael line, "You gotta have Faith Faith Faith!":dance:

What can be asserted without evidence, can be also be dismissed with out evidence.
The absence of evidence is evidence of absence.


and I doubt that they feel anything external. They create these "spiritual" feelings.
 
isn't that on par with an athiest being told they'll burn in hell?

i am not athiest btw.
If I ever tell somebody they're going to burn in hell for what they believe I'll be right behind them for sure. If I ever uttered that...I'd be filling shoes I couldn't :).
 
What can be asserted without evidence, can be also be dismissed with out evidence.
The absence of evidence is evidence of absence.


and I doubt that they feel anything external. They create these "spiritual" feelings.
If we could create the stuff I'm talking about by eating...choclate...It be the biggest drug on the streets. Wait it probably already is, right behind coffee.
 
If we could create the stuff I'm talking about by eating...choclate...It be the biggest drug on the streets. Wait it probably already is, right behind coffee.

I think its pretty sad when religious people get through something really difficult and then say that they couldnt have done it without God. They give the credit away. THEY did it, its THEIR accomplishment.
I dont mean you intentionally create it. I mean you believe God is on your side and it calms you down.

I think of it like an infant running around at a park giggling. Everything is fine till it turns around and sees its mother isnt behind it.
(by the way I am not calling you an infant :) its just a story)
 
The common response from this statement: Have you asked Him to?

Sorry man I had to say it :) .


im sure thousands of times. some in tears, some with a gun near my head....



Religious people will then say crap like "If you want to know if God is real ask satan to show up! He'll be glad to." .....well not from my experience. I've played with weegie boards in haunted houses. walked around semetaries at night by myself and with friends asking to see something. .....nothin!
 
I think its pretty sad when religious people get through something really difficult and then say that they couldnt have done it without God. They give the credit away. THEY did it, its THEIR accomplishment.
I dont mean you intentionally create it. I mean you believe God is on your side and it calms you down.

I think of it like an infant running around at a park giggling. Everything is fine till it turns around and sees its mother isnt behind it.
(by the way I am not calling you an infant :) its just a story)
I came to a conclusion that everything I did, accomplished, worked my arse off to be the best at, left me still standing there at the end...looking for the next step, something to fill the gap.

It was the conclusion that there isn't a thing that is going to fill it except the stuff my buddy was doing, guess what that was, praying. So I took a look at religion, and I mean a long look, smashed it apart, racked it thoruhg the coals, all the stuff you could imagine. I'm a former (still am but not doing it for a job) cell biologist so I scrutinized it against science. And now I live my life for God.

I couldn't have done 1 thing without the help of God in my life, the rest I could have done, but with Him it EVERYTHING wsa just a lot better.

What if we are made to be eternal, and it's supposed to start here?
 
it's good to see omen and zero back together

you guys make a great team

how about you 2 do a road trip together, drive from NY to LA, non stop :lol:


eh, I think either he would kill me, or I would leave him on the side of the road.....
 
If I ever tell somebody they're going to burn in hell for what they believe I'll be right behind them for sure. If I ever uttered that...I'd be filling shoes I couldn't :).

not uttered but you probabley think it and believe it

anyway dude, you made a general statement about atheists and in return i made a general statement about christians.

once again i am not an atheist, just to be clear.
 
not uttered but you probabley think it and believe it

anyway dude, you made a general statement about atheists and in return i made a general statement about christians.

once again i am not an atheist, just to be clear.

I'm right up there with the worst sinner, I don't think it, how can I. We can't judge the Word that is written on anybody's hearts, if somebody told me they knew so and so was...lets's just say not eternal...I'd laugh them right out the door.
 
I think I would go crazy living in Utah....you're a better man than me.

I credit Ayn Rand. She was my little blue pill.


I think you mean red pill :) or do I have it backwards?

What did she do for you? I've read like a forth of Atlas Shrugged and the only religion related material i can think of in it is that sexual indulgence is not a bad thing.

fill me in man :)




but here's a nice quote on sexuality....
"It is a superstition of the human mind to have imagined that virginity could be a virtue, and not the barrier which separates knowledge from ignorance." Voltaire
(that was from memory but i think its verbatum...)
 
I came to a conclusion that everything I did, accomplished, worked my arse off to be the best at, left me still standing there at the end...looking for the next step, something to fill the gap.

It was the conclusion that there isn't a thing that is going to fill it except the stuff my buddy was doing, guess what that was, praying. So I took a look at religion, and I mean a long look, smashed it apart, racked it thoruhg the coals, all the stuff you could imagine. I'm a former (still am but not doing it for a job) cell biologist so I scrutinized it against science. And now I live my life for God.

I couldn't have done 1 thing without the help of God in my life, the rest I could have done, but with Him it EVERYTHING wsa just a lot better.

What if we are made to be eternal, and it's supposed to start here?

glad to see another christian join this board. usually when it comes down to religious debates I used to be solo in it, then a few others popped up dadof2 and rick, and a few others.

Just try not to overbear it like I have a few times, I had to find a balance. where as I never have issues with verbal discussion, online its alot easier for people to just not care, so its harder to make a point.
 
I think you mean red pill :) or do I have it backwards?

What did she do for you? I've read like a forth of Atlas Shrugged and the only religion related material i can think of in it is that sexual indulgence is not a bad thing.

fill me in man :)

Shoot, just wikied it and it is a red pill.

As far as Rand, her objectivism puts forth unified philosophy that can be summed up as:

Reality is what it is. Everything can be understood through reason. Reason enables one to realize that rational self-interest (aka selfishness) is the route to happiness. Capitalism and individual rights are the only way to ensure that man can reach his full potential.

God has no place in her philosophical views.

I've been a much happier person since I read the book: Atlas Shrugged. I'd recommend it to anyone.
 
I think its pretty sad when religious people get through something really difficult and then say that they couldnt have done it without God. They give the credit away. THEY did it, its THEIR accomplishment.
I dont mean you intentionally create it. I mean you believe God is on your side and it calms you down.

I think of it like an infant running around at a park giggling. Everything is fine till it turns around and sees its mother isnt behind it.
(by the way I am not calling you an infant :) its just a story)

Not all religions are like that, however most are.
 
im sure thousands of times. some in tears, some with a gun near my head....



Religious people will then say crap like "If you want to know if God is real ask satan to show up! He'll be glad to." .....well not from my experience. I've played with weegie boards in haunted houses. walked around semetaries at night by myself and with friends asking to see something. .....nothin!

Your mind may not be open to see anything, I'm not saying it is an issue of not believing or not having an open mind. Think of it like this, you ever take a picture of an incandescent light without using the flash? Well the picture would come out looking orange but when you are looking at it the light looks white. That is because your brain corrects it, well what if there is more around us that our brain just automatically filters? There are certain meditation techniques that cause you to be able to temporarily experience things that you normally don't. Or perhaps it is just hallucinations how do we really know which it truly is.
 
Shoot, just wikied it and it is a red pill.

As far as Rand, her objectivism puts forth unified philosophy that can be summed up as:

Reality is what it is. Everything can be understood through reason. Reason enables one to realize that rational self-interest (aka selfishness) is the route to happiness. Capitalism and individual rights are the only way to ensure that man can reach his full potential.

God has no place in her philosophical views.

I've been a much happier person since I read the book: Atlas Shrugged. I'd recommend it to anyone.

How do we that which we can see is the entirety of reality?
 
Your mind may not be open to see anything, I'm not saying it is an issue of not believing or not having an open mind. Think of it like this, you ever take a picture of an incandescent light without using the flash? Well the picture would come out looking orange but when you are looking at it the light looks white. That is because your brain corrects it, well what if there is more around us that our brain just automatically filters? There are certain meditation techniques that cause you to be able to temporarily experience things that you normally don't. Or perhaps it is just hallucinations how do we really know which it truly is.



that kind of talk is all fine and great (honestly), but do I really have to try and meet god in another demension or some ****? come on now

If he existed and has any respect for us, his children, he would meet us personally. He would come visit when we were sick; Give advice when we were stressed; ....or at the least pay child support :D
 
Capitalism and individual rights are the only way to ensure that man can reach his full potential.
Sounds like I need to finish Atlas Shrugged.

I hope this thread doesnt swerve off topic after this, but I'm not so sure about capitalism being the way to acheive peak happiness in a society (hedonistic society).
No economic system is that great. I favor capitalism the most, at least from real world examples. But its still to a large degree a pyramid scam which sells those at the bottom survival for the mere cost of thier life haha.
 
Sounds like I need to finish Atlas Shrugged.

I hope this thread doesnt swerve off topic after this, but I'm not so sure about capitalism being the way to acheive peak happiness in a society (hedonistic society).
No economic system is that great. I favor capitalism the most, at least from real world examples. But its still to a large degree a pyramid scam which sells those at the bottom survival for the mere cost of thier life haha.

Yeah, you need to read the rest of the book....it takes awhile but its worth it.

I disagree with your critique of capitalism. Capitalism is not hedonism. Very few people are truly happy with a hedonistic lifestyle. Capitalism is the only system where workers and employers are equals. Workers need a job and employers need a worker, they both have a vested self interest in one another. There's nothing pyramid about supply and demand. Poor people become rich and rich become poor, it happens all the time.

As for real world examples, capitalism becomes tainted when government gets involved. Nobody is smarter than supply and demand. A common critique of capitalism is monopolies...however a coercive monopoly is an impossibility without government. Government is the one true monopoly as they have a monopoly on the legal use of force. That sways all transactions they get involved in either implicitly or explicitly.
 
How do we that which we can see is the entirety of reality?

I'm not saying you are. What I am saying is for a human being to reach their full potential they should use their 5 senses to determine reality and use that objective reality to make value judgments.

To cut out all the in between in her logic trail, her moral code comes down to what helps survival is good, what causes one's demise is bad. Sounds simple....but it flies in the face of most religious tenets.
 
that kind of talk is all fine and great (honestly), but do I really have to try and meet god in another demension or some ****? come on now

If he existed and has any respect for us, his children, he would meet us personally. He would come visit when we were sick; Give advice when we were stressed; ....or at the least pay child support :D

I wasn't really talking about God but other things. God or the creator or whatever you want to call it could really just be manifestation of all our consciousnesses, the point is we really don't know, point is there are other things around us that our mind filters and there are ways to remove some of the filters. There is one meditation exercise I have done before and for a few days after doing it I will hear people saying things to me, so is that a spirit that has passed or just a hallucination? Well I don't know none of us really do so we can't tell someone else they have to believe in this or that religion because we don't know if really should as we don't know everything. BTW I am not a christian I am a Pagan.
 
I disagree with your critique of capitalism. Capitalism is not hedonism. Very few people are truly happy with a hedonistic lifestyle. Capitalism is the only system where workers and employers are equals.

As for real world examples, capitalism becomes tainted when government gets involved. Nobody is smarter than supply and demand. A common critique of capitalism is monopolies...however a coercive monopoly is an impossibility without government. Government is the one true monopoly as they have a monopoly on the legal use of force. That sways all transactions they get involved in either implicitly or explicitly.


I just ment it seems to produce the highest amount of happiness in a populace. Maybe Utilitarianism would have been a better word choice :)


Yeah government will never be more than a necessary evil. It is services provided at gun point haha (watch "The Shortest Political Survey You'll Ever Take" on youtube).

I almost wish every religious belief could just have its own theocracy. How the hell did sabitical laws ever creep into our system!? makes me furious. I thought the constitution was something we tried to follow. hmmmm


One thing I'd like to bring up :) The Treaty of Tripoli: As The United States Of America Is Not In Any Sense Founded On The Christian Religion.
You can have a blast looking up agnostic and athiest quotes by our Founding Fathers :)
 
his mother was jewish and father catholic
...if I'm not mistaken.
I dont think he'll hold back on either haha


u are correct, and he was raised catholic and decided he didnt like religion as a whole. this is not to say he does not believe in g-d.
 
Ignorance makes religions look nuts, sort of like believing somthing because you were told to, or writing somthing off before you know what it is or what its about.

I believe its organized religion thats the target (just a guess) it picks up followers, idiots and they can belive any loose interpretation of the texts and support wars and murder because they lack the fundamentals and morals that constitute faith and true understanding of religous message. Essentially mocking peoples rediculous unvalidated (by there own lack of understanding) opinions.
 
Could someone please explain faith to me?

If evidence supports a conclusion, then you have a reason to believe. So what do you need faith for? A belief with no supporting evidence?

I'm not trying to offend btw. just trying to ask the hard questions.




I would say faiths is denial....

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." -Mark Twain





I really can't understand, or stomach, someone being praised for being a 'man of faith.'
 
Zeitgeist Addendum is awesome btw. Definitely check it out.


Anyone live in salt lake area and know of a theater that will be showing Religulous?
 
Could someone please explain faith to me?

If evidence supports a conclusion, then you have a reason to believe. So what do you need faith for? A belief with no supporting evidence?

I'm not trying to offend btw. just trying to ask the hard questions.




I would say faiths is denial....

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." -Mark Twain





I really can't understand, or stomach, someone being praised for being a 'man of faith.'

Critical, Analytical Atheism was once a calling of mine, but no longer; quite simply, it is a fruitless endeavor!

For example, let us assume that the impetus for a critical attitude is to positively affirm, via reasoning and a justified, true belief (Epistemology) that Position 'A' is true, while positing that Position 'B' is the negation of that assumed truth; obviously, through the same reasoning.

Now, most discourses between those of faith and those from without-faith take on this critical attitude, and subsequently seek to affirm their own position, while denying the other; however, the primary issue with this is as follows: Religion necessarily places itself beyond the reach of a rational epistemology, and thereby also places itself beyond the reach of empirical criticism - in this respect, 'truth' and 'validation' become decontextualized and merely relative to experience. Therefore, they cannot be invalidated by an appeal to 'objective' reality, as the Religion becomes the Object for the Individual (i.e., Religion is experience - it permeates, and is lived through by the Subject.)

Iin seeking to invalidate the 'truth' of Religion, you necessarily seek to invalidate the direct experiential aspect of an individual's ontology; somewhat akin to saying, 'Hey, this ground is not here!". Obviously, if you claimed to me "Gravity does not exist", I would counter with my direct experience, 'It is, as I am not floating away!". While difficult to grasp, those with faith view the existence of gods, or 'God' or whomever as this ostensibly apparent. It is for this reason that I am fundamentally a Deist.
 
Let me further clarify the concept of:

Religion necessarily places itself beyond the reach of a rational epistemology

A justified true belief can be summated as follows: A situation, reality or phenomenon which you believe to be true, and have plausible justifications for that same situation, reality, or phenomenon (Philosophically, this is inadequate, but if suffices for our purposes). In order to validate this belief, one needs to reasonably present its existence through indexical reference points that succumb to the same system parameters - in other words, to claim 'Gravity' as a justified true belief, you must validate its existence by referencing objects in the natural world which succumb to the same governing laws: "Look at that rock, it's molecules are being kept together by some force, and I am being kept on the ground from floating away, and therefore I have a justified true belief that Gravity exists".

Now, the issue with Religion, is that as a function of faith-based reasoning, it necessarily places itself beyond the governance of any external rational system, as means through which to internally validate itself at all costs (circulus in probando - Circular Logic). Therefore, claiming to 'disprove' Religion vis-a-vis indexicals of your epistemology is simply ineffective. Let me use an analogy:

In the Hindu faith, Brahman-Atman is the dominant 'Absolute Reality' (not a deity in the Western Sense, but the transcendental 'real' reality) and cannot be known vis-a-vis knowledge, but only through direct experience. Following this, if you in fact found the object which disproves the existence of Brahman-Atman and presented to a Hindu, they would scoff and say, "Brahman-Atman cannot be understood and known by the ordinary mind, intellect, and consciousness, and therefore your proof, as a function of your own false consciousness, is invalid". Now, one may protest and externally validate this 'object' through their own epistemology all they want, but it simply succumbs to the internal logic of Religion - Circular Logic.

Therefore, if one assumes that a precept of holding any particular belief is to possess the adjunct possibility to validate it, and that external validation of the absence of God is impossible, than properly holding that belief is impossible as well. Hence, Deism.
 
So I'm going to assume, please correct me if I'm wrong, that you believe there was a big bang, fine tuned by a God to allow for human life to one day occur through evolution. no?

So while you wait for a unified theory of everything you sit at deism?
This is a common position which is why I'm assuming.


Reminds me of the Benjamin Disraeli quote:
Where knowledge ends, religion begins.
 
So I'm going to assume, please correct me if I'm wrong, that you believe there was a big bang, fine tuned by a God to allow for human life to one day occur through evolution. no?

So while you wait for a unified theory of everything you sit at deism?
This is a common position which is why I'm assuming.


Reminds me of the Benjamin Disraeli quote:
Where knowledge ends, religion begins.

Somewhat close, but not necessarily my position!

Deism, strictly speaking, is a form of natural philosophy/religion, predicated upon the rejection of the fundamental tenets of organized religion: Predetermination, deference to the authority of doctrine, the active participation of deities in normal happenings and so on; what you described is more explicitly Agnostic, rather than Deistic.

I do not necessarily believe in a Genesis-point, nor do I disbelieve in, or am I disturbed by, the possibility of an infinite regression. My opinion is that critical stances to the existence of deities is a fruitless endeavor, and therefore I am wholly unconcerned with the possible participation - or lack thereof - of said deities; my concerns rest with how the indoctrinated individuals of organized religion actualize their biases on other real, living individuals. Hence, my somewhat Deistic stance: I simply do not care whether or not 'God', or god, or gods exist, but rather what that belief implies in the actions of real-living individuals.
 
i am going tomorrow! i cant wait to see what he has to say about my people the jews!

Only Christians are game, if you target Muslims, you're a racist and suicide bombers will kill you, if you target Jews, you're holocaust denier and you'll never be able to buy jewelry again.

For some reason people think it's ok and funny to make fun of Christians but for Muslims and Jews it's offensive.

Someone should come up with a movie called "TRILOGY OF TERROR" a 3 hour documentary denouncing Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

That, I would watch :afro:
 
Only Christians are game, if you target Muslims, you're a racist and suicide bombers will kill you, if you target Jews, you're holocaust denier and you'll never be able to buy jewelry again.

For some reason people think it's ok and funny to make fun of Christians but for Muslims and Jews it's offensive.

Someone should come up with a movie called "TRILOGY OF TERROR" a 3 hour documentary denouncing Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

That, I would watch :afro:

All three of the young religions - or more specifically their purveyors - are guilty of the same offenses, and same deference to moral authority. Abrahamic Religions have always been the most competitive and exclusionary; most older religions do not have similar tenets.
 
All three of the young religions - or more specifically their purveyors - are guilty of the same offenses, and same deference to moral authority. Abrahamic Religions have always been the most competitive and exclusionary; most older religions do not have similar tenets.
For better or for worse, this relative youth of thee religions is also what lends them vitality.

The old religions are simply that...a viewpoint that does not seek the same things that youth does.

It is what is most appealing, and most abhorrent, about the big 3, and the reason they are most seductive to many different personality types.
 
All three of the young religions - or more specifically their purveyors - are guilty of the same offenses, and same deference to moral authority. Abrahamic Religions have always been the most competitive and exclusionary; most older religions do not have similar tenets.

Then again, there hasn't been a time where non-mainstream religions have been the majority has there?

Satanism, Buddhism, Wicca, Tribal religions, Ancient Egyptian religions, etc....if they were the majority, or as popular as the Trilogy Of Terror, would they also become as violent as the TOT?

I think it's a mixture between the books/teaching and the herd/hive mentality, anytime you take humans and tell them mystical sh*t is real and include demons, angels, etc.... they become even more retarded and do stupider sh*t than they normally would.
 
esoteric agenda may attack all three? cant remember

I know it talks about judaism being based on the worship of Saturn. Thus the sacred day of worship is SATURday as opposed to worshipping the Sun on SUN day (christians).
Also says wedding rings come from judiasm coping the rings of saturn as being something holy
 
esoteric agenda may attack all three? cant remember

I know it talks about judaism being based on the worship of Saturn. Thus the sacred day of worship is SATURday as opposed to worshipping the Sun on SUN day (christians).
Also says wedding rings come from judiasm coping the rings of saturn as being something holy
I thought it was because of the relative illiteracy of early christians, when they thought it was Son-day. :)
 
I thought it was because of the relative illiteracy of early christians, when they thought it was Son-day. :)

God is Good with an O added
Devil is evil with a D


Soul is out center. Solar System. Sun is the Soul or Sol. ....the light in the center
 
God is Good with an O added
Devil is evil with a D


Soul is out center. Solar System. Sun is the Soul or Sol. ....the light in the center
And just remember...the sol is nothing without U!!!


>gag<

/I should make that a t-shirt.
 
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