Why is Superdrol more effective than Msten even though Msten has a higher anabolic ratio?

JoePaul39

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Ok guys. Just starting to learn about anabolic ratios and want to know for my own knowledge why is it that just because a compound like MSten which has an anabolic ratio of 600 and Superdrol’s ratio is only 400, but still Superdrol is the better mass builder? Why don’t the ratio translate into the amount of real life gains accuratey?
 
dezzy84

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Yeah the ratios are kinda b.s and don't always translate to real life. Some pretty weak drugs have crazy anabolic to androgenic ratios on paper, but bodybuilders have figured out quickly what works and doesn't.

As a begginner, I would encourage you to do all your research before making the jump. These compounds will f**k you up if your not careful.

But don't over think it, don't live on the forums. Document your results from different compounds. Try what you feel is best and expirment. Certain things work better for certain people because everyone's physiology is different.
 
Lynks8

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Quick, dirty answer:

1. Where are you getting your numbers? That seems off to me as I thought superdrol was more anabolic than msten, but it's been years since I looked up A/A ratios. I could be wrong.

2. IIRC, the methodology they used in testing various compounds against methyltestosterone (to develop these 'ratios') left a lot to be desired. The ratios are at best, oversimplifications...and at worst, potentially innacurate.

3. Most importantly, these ratios do not always correspond to real world effects. For example, there are compounds that are supposedly very androgenic, but don't cause nearly as many andro sides as other compunds that are rated to be more anabolic. It's basically just a place to start ones' research. A concensus of real world accounts are our best tool for estimating a compund's potential effects.
 
Renew1

Renew1

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Ok guys. Just starting to learn about anabolic ratios and want to know for my own knowledge why is it that just because a compound like MSten which has an anabolic ratio of 600 and Superdrol’s ratio is only 400, but still Superdrol is the better mass builder? Why don’t the ratio translate into the amount of real life gains accuratey?
You can look at where they get those ratios from, and not necessarily be surprised when they don't translate the way we think that type of ratio should.

... And then carry that knowledge with us, that we can't go by those, in the ways that we would like to.
 

Joshinator

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In addition to whats been said, the a/a ratios are just that. Ratios. Something might have a million to 1 ratio (being extremely “anabolic”) but ratio doesnt mean muscle building capacity, nor does it refer to the compounds effect on the body.

I only researched a tiny bit on how the scientists determined the ratios, and from what i could tell the experiments are highly subject to measurement error and experimenter error.

So 1. A/a ratios just ratios not effect sizes and 2. The ratios should just be taken to generally estimate how anabolic vs androgenic a compound might be.
 

JoePaul39

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Quick, dirty answer:

1. Where are you getting your numbers? That seems off to me as I thought superdrol was more anabolic than msten, but it's been years since I looked up A/A ratios. I could be wrong.
Msten ratio Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio:

660:90-170 vs. methyltestosterone by oral administration. [1]” Article on the compound was taken from here https://www.musclechemistry.com/upload/bodybuilding-steroid-and-training-articles/69757-m-sten-methylsten.html


The author had a citation footnote stating the data was taken from
References
[1] Vida J.: Androgens and Anabolic Agents. Academic Press, New York (1969) p. 212.


I have seen other internet articles as well that put it at 600 or above and was surprised.

As far as Superdrol being a 400 http://www.wumeitech.com/anabolic-ratio-and-androgenic-ratio-chart-and-major-aas-steroids-profile/
There chart is below
Anabolic Ratio and Androgenic Ratio Chart:
Product Name (Active Ingredient)AnabolicAndrogenic
1-Testosterone100200
Anabolicum Vister(Quinbolone)(Oral Boldenone)50100
Anadrol 50(Oxymetholone)45320
Anadur(Nandrolone Hexyloxyphenylpropionate)37125
Anatrofin(Stenbolone Acetate)107-144267-332
Anavar(Oxandrolone)24322-630
Andractim(Dihydrotestosteron)30-26060-220
Andriol(Testosterone Undecanoate)100100
Androderm(Testosterone)100100
Androgel(Testosterone)100100
Boldabol(Boldenone Acetate)50100
Cheque Drops(Mibolerone)1,8004,100
Danocrine(Danazol)37125
Deca-Durabolin(Nandrolone Decanoate)37125
Deposterona(Testosterone Blend)100100
Dianabol(Methandrostenolone)40-6090-210
Dimethyltrienolone10,000+10,000+
Dinandrol(Nandrolone Blend)37125
Durabolin(NPP)37125
Dynabol(Nandrolone Cypionate)37125
Equipoise(Boldenone Undecylenate)50100
Esiclene(Formebolone)No Data Available
Genabol(Norbolethone)17350
Halotestin(Fluoxymesterone)8501,900
Hydroxytestosterone2565
Laurabolin(Nandrolone Laurate)37125
Madol(Desoxymethyltestosterone )1871,200
Masteron(Drostanolone Propionate)25-4062-130
Megagrisevit-Mono(Clostebol Acetate)2546
MENT(Methylnortestosterone Acetate)6502,300
Mestanolone78-254107
Methandriol(Mythelandrostenedi ol)30-6020-60
Methyl-1-Testosterone100-220910-1,600
Methyldienolone200-3001,000
Methylhydroxynandrolone(MHN)2811304
Methyltestosterone94-130115-150
Metribolone(Methyltrienolone)6,000-7,00012,000-30,000
Miotolan(Furazabol)73-94270-330
Myagen(Bolasterone)300575
Nilevar(Norethandrolone)22-55100-200
Omnadren(Testosterone Blend)100100
Orabolin(Ethylestrenol)20-400200-400
Oral TurinabolNone100+
Oranabol(Oxymesterone)50330
Orgasteron(Normethandrolone)325-580110-125
Parabolan(Tren Hexahydrobenzycarbonate)-500500
Primobolan(Methenolone Acetate)44-5788
Primobolan Depot(Methenolone Enanthate)-44-5788
Prostanozoln/an/a
Protabol(Thiomesterone)61456
Proviron(Mesterolone)30-40100-150
Sanabolicum(Nandrolone Cyclohexylpropionate)-37125
Steranabol Ritardo(Oxabolone Cypionate)20-6050-90
Superdrol(Methyldrostanolone)40020
Sustanon 100 & 250100100
Synovex(Testosterone Propionate & Estradiol)-100100
Test 400100100
Test Enanthate/Cypionate/Propionate/Susp & Blends-100100
THG(Tetrahydrogestrinone)No Data Available
Tren Acetate/Enanthate & Blends500500
Winstrol(Stanozolol)30320
 

JoePaul39

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I guess the ratio science just doesn’t always translate into the real world results, but can still be useful as both MSten and Superdrol have very high ratios and both translate into good mass builders, though Superdrol more so.
 
Smont

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Ok guys. Just starting to learn about anabolic ratios and want to know for my own knowledge why is it that just because a compound like MSten which has an anabolic ratio of 600 and Superdrol’s ratio is only 400, but still Superdrol is the better mass builder? Why don’t the ratio translate into the amount of real life gains accuratey?
Anabolic/androgenic ratios are measured in animals, "not humans"
 
Smont

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I guess the ratio science just doesn’t always translate into the real world results, but can still be useful as both MSten and Superdrol have very high ratios and both translate into good mass builders, though Superdrol more so.
It does not translate to humans at all, not 1 of those ratios were made for the effects in humans
 

JoePaul39

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Anabolic/androgenic ratios are measured in animals, "not humans"
Yes, but they do have some value and application. This is why big pharma drug companies often use rats and monkeys in their initial clinical trials to establish how such drugs may effect humans in both positive and negative ways to decide if It is warranted to them progress to human clinical trials. It is a starting point. Anabollic/androgen is ratios have some value so as long as someone isn’t relying on it solely or as an “absolute”. They can serve as starting points of research when deciding which compound you want to run. Of course actual human user real life results is what should be given much more weight. I just find the ratios an interesting topic probably because I am a numbers guy and majored in Accounting lol.
 

JoePaul39

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It does not translate to humans at all, not 1 of those ratios were made for the effects in humans
I disagree. For example Anavar has a very low anabolic ratio as compared to Superdrol and in the real world Superdrol blows Anavar out is the water so obviously the ratios have some value of measurement. Like I said, they are good for a reference, but just that. Not as an “end all be all”. Actual human results matter much more obviously, but it is a mistake to completely discount the ratios as meaningless and totally irrelevant.
 
Smont

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I disagree. For example Anavar has a very low anabolic ratio as compared to Superdrol and in the real world Superdrol blows Anavar out is the water so obviously the ratios have some value of measurement. Like I said, they are good for a reference, but just that. Not as an “end all be all”. Actual human results matter much more obviously, but it is a mistake to completely discount the ratios as meaningless and totally irrelevant.
I did not say none of them are correct when we look at the ratios and estimate the strength of the compound. But none of those numbers are the numbers in humans, they are the numbers in animals. So compound x may be 100/300 in rats, it's not 100/300 in humans. As far as I know there's no number done that directly translate to humans. But it gives us a rough idea of what it might be.
 
Renew1

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I disagree. For example Anavar has a very low anabolic ratio as compared to Superdrol and in the real world Superdrol blows Anavar out is the water so obviously the ratios have some value of measurement. Like I said, they are good for a reference, but just that. Not as an “end all be all”. Actual human results matter much more obviously, but it is a mistake to completely discount the ratios as meaningless and totally irrelevant.
You are mistaken brother.
Those ratios don't translate At All.

Here's where your error lies:

You're taking a long list of ratios, and picking out a few that you believe translate, and saying "See, it works, look at this few I've picked out".

I'm a numbers guy too. I Love numbers. When they mean something.

You know the phrase, "A stopped clock is right twice a day"?

It is.
And the rest of the day it is wrong.
And guess what ... Even those 2 times are of ZERO credit to that clock.
It didn't figure out how to be right 2 times in 24 hours.
...... It JUST HAPPENED TO BE.

:)
 
Smont

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Also we have the human factor of how a individual person reacts to a compound. Take m1a for example. Everyone says they get huge on it, I don't. I get stronger fast tho. Msten does not give me a ton of strength or size, but a little of both. Sd makes me gain weight at a rediculous pace and my strength goes through the roof
 

Nac

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Ill always remember Patrick Arnold saying, at the doses bodybuilders tend to use of these drugs all bets are off.
 

Mathb33

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Because what’s on paper doesn’t = real life use. Some very weak compounds have some incredibly stronger ratio than let’s say testosterone while they won’t build 1/10th of what test builds.
 

Rebuild

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I disagree. For example Anavar has a very low anabolic ratio as compared to Superdrol and in the real world Superdrol blows Anavar out is the water so obviously the ratios have some value of measurement. Like I said, they are good for a reference, but just that. Not as an “end all be all”. Actual human results matter much more obviously, but it is a mistake to completely discount the ratios as meaningless and totally irrelevant.
I'm fairly sure that A/A ratio is backwards for Anavar. It has a very high anabolic to androgenic ratio.
 

Mathb33

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I disagree. For example Anavar has a very low anabolic ratio as compared to Superdrol and in the real world Superdrol blows Anavar out is the water so obviously the ratios have some value of measurement. Like I said, they are good for a reference, but just that. Not as an “end all be all”. Actual human results matter much more obviously, but it is a mistake to completely discount the ratios as meaningless and totally irrelevant.
Anavar has a ratio of 24androgenic to 322 Anabolics and superdrol is 20:400
 
Smont

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Anavar has a ratio of 24androgenic to 322 Anabolics and superdrol is 20:400
I've actually seen anavars androgenic side as 24 and anabolic side listed as between 322 and 633. That would make it blow sd out the water on paper
 
Smont

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Anavar has a ratio of 24androgenic to 322 Anabolics and superdrol is 20:400
I've actually seen anavars androgenic side as 24 and anabolic side listed as between 322 and 633. That would make it blow sd out the water on paper
 

JoePaul39

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The table had Anavar as anabolic at 24 and Superdrol at 400. It is Superdrol with the much higher rating. If you look at the column heading the first column is the anabolic one. The 2nd column is the androgenic one.


Anabolic Ratio and Androgenic Ratio Chart:
Product Name (Active Ingredient)AnabolicAndrogenic
1-Testosterone100200
Anabolicum Vister(Quinbolone)(Oral Boldenone)50100
Anadrol 50(Oxymetholone)45320
Anadur(Nandrolone Hexyloxyphenylpropionate)37125
Anatrofin(Stenbolone Acetate)107-144267-332
Anavar(Oxandrolone)24322-630
Andractim(Dihydrotestosteron)30-26060-220
Andriol(Testosterone Undecanoate)100100
Androderm(Testosterone)100100
Androgel(Testosterone)100100
Boldabol(Boldenone Acetate)50100
Cheque Drops(Mibolerone)1,8004,100
Danocrine(Danazol)37125
Deca-Durabolin(Nandrolone Decanoate)37125
Deposterona(Testosterone Blend)100100
Dianabol(Methandrostenolone)40-6090-210
Dimethyltrienolone10,000+10,000+
Dinandrol(Nandrolone Blend)37125
Durabolin(NPP)37125
Dynabol(Nandrolone Cypionate)37125
Equipoise(Boldenone Undecylenate)50100
Esiclene(Formebolone)No Data Available
Genabol(Norbolethone)17350
Halotestin(Fluoxymesterone)8501,900
Hydroxytestosterone2565
Laurabolin(Nandrolone Laurate)37125
Madol(Desoxymethyltestosterone )1871,200
Masteron(Drostanolone Propionate)25-4062-130
Megagrisevit-Mono(Clostebol Acetate)2546
MENT(Methylnortestosterone Acetate)6502,300
Mestanolone78-254107
Methandriol(Mythelandrostenedi ol)30-6020-60
Methyl-1-Testosterone100-220910-1,600
Methyldienolone200-3001,000
Methylhydroxynandrolone(MHN)2811304
Methyltestosterone94-130115-150
Metribolone(Methyltrienolone)6,000-7,00012,000-30,000
Miotolan(Furazabol)73-94270-330
Myagen(Bolasterone)300575
Nilevar(Norethandrolone)22-55100-200
Omnadren(Testosterone Blend)100100
Orabolin(Ethylestrenol)20-400200-400
Oral TurinabolNone100+
Oranabol(Oxymesterone)50330
Orgasteron(Normethandrolone)325-580110-125
Parabolan(Tren Hexahydrobenzycarbonate)-500500
Primobolan(Methenolone Acetate)44-5788
Primobolan Depot(Methenolone Enanthate)-44-5788
Prostanozoln/an/a
Protabol(Thiomesterone)61456
Proviron(Mesterolone)30-40100-150
Sanabolicum(Nandrolone Cyclohexylpropionate)-37125
Steranabol Ritardo(Oxabolone Cypionate)20-6050-90
Superdrol(Methyldrostanolone)40020
Sustanon 100 & 250100100
Synovex(Testosterone Propionate & Estradiol)-100100
Test 400100100
Test Enanthate/Cypionate/Propionate/Susp & Blends-100100
THG(Tetrahydrogestrinone)No Data Available
Tren Acetate/Enanthate & Blends500500
Winstrol(Stanozolol)30320
 

JoePaul39

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I've actually seen anavars androgenic side as 24 and anabolic side listed as between 322 and 633. That would make it blow sd out the water on paper
i am beginning to conclude this chart has some of the numbers reversed for like you said Anavar being high,however it lists it low, but yet it had Superdrol right at 400. Must be a crappy source for info put together in a sloppy manner.
 

JoePaul39

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The chart is a bad chart. Has things all fd up. I will see if I can find a better one.
 
Renew1

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The table had Anavar as anabolic at 24 and Superdrol at 400. It is Superdrol with the much higher rating. If you look at the column heading the first column is the anabolic one. The 2nd column is the androgenic one.


Anabolic Ratio and Androgenic Ratio Chart:
Product Name (Active Ingredient)AnabolicAndrogenic
1-Testosterone100200
Anabolicum Vister(Quinbolone)(Oral Boldenone)50100
Anadrol 50(Oxymetholone)45320
Anadur(Nandrolone Hexyloxyphenylpropionate)37125
Anatrofin(Stenbolone Acetate)107-144267-332
Anavar(Oxandrolone)24322-630
Andractim(Dihydrotestosteron)30-26060-220
Andriol(Testosterone Undecanoate)100100
Androderm(Testosterone)100100
Androgel(Testosterone)100100
Boldabol(Boldenone Acetate)50100
Cheque Drops(Mibolerone)1,8004,100
Danocrine(Danazol)37125
Deca-Durabolin(Nandrolone Decanoate)37125
Deposterona(Testosterone Blend)100100
Dianabol(Methandrostenolone)40-6090-210
Dimethyltrienolone10,000+10,000+
Dinandrol(Nandrolone Blend)37125
Durabolin(NPP)37125
Dynabol(Nandrolone Cypionate)37125
Equipoise(Boldenone Undecylenate)50100
Esiclene(Formebolone)No Data Available
Genabol(Norbolethone)17350
Halotestin(Fluoxymesterone)8501,900
Hydroxytestosterone2565
Laurabolin(Nandrolone Laurate)37125
Madol(Desoxymethyltestosterone )1871,200
Masteron(Drostanolone Propionate)25-4062-130
Megagrisevit-Mono(Clostebol Acetate)2546
MENT(Methylnortestosterone Acetate)6502,300
Mestanolone78-254107
Methandriol(Mythelandrostenedi ol)30-6020-60
Methyl-1-Testosterone100-220910-1,600
Methyldienolone200-3001,000
Methylhydroxynandrolone(MHN)2811304
Methyltestosterone94-130115-150
Metribolone(Methyltrienolone)6,000-7,00012,000-30,000
Miotolan(Furazabol)73-94270-330
Myagen(Bolasterone)300575
Nilevar(Norethandrolone)22-55100-200
Omnadren(Testosterone Blend)100100
Orabolin(Ethylestrenol)20-400200-400
Oral TurinabolNone100+
Oranabol(Oxymesterone)50330
Orgasteron(Normethandrolone)325-580110-125
Parabolan(Tren Hexahydrobenzycarbonate)-500500
Primobolan(Methenolone Acetate)44-5788
Primobolan Depot(Methenolone Enanthate)-44-5788
Prostanozoln/an/a
Protabol(Thiomesterone)61456
Proviron(Mesterolone)30-40100-150
Sanabolicum(Nandrolone Cyclohexylpropionate)-37125
Steranabol Ritardo(Oxabolone Cypionate)20-6050-90
Superdrol(Methyldrostanolone)40020
Sustanon 100 & 250100100
Synovex(Testosterone Propionate & Estradiol)-100100
Test 400100100
Test Enanthate/Cypionate/Propionate/Susp & Blends-100100
THG(Tetrahydrogestrinone)No Data Available
Tren Acetate/Enanthate & Blends500500
Winstrol(Stanozolol)30320

I don't put stock in these numbers, as far as consideration goes for you and I ......
But this table had the numbers incorrect.

Oxandrolone has about 322 to 633% of the anabolic potency and 24% of the androgenic potency of methyltestosterone.
 

JoePaul39

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I don't put stock in these numbers, as far as consideration goes for you and I ......
But this table had the numbers incorrect.

Oxandrolone has about 322 to 633% of the anabolic potency and 24% of the androgenic potency of methyltestosterone.
I agree. My bad. The site looked reputable, but they at least suffer from truncating numbers. Maybe someone can find us a better one. That does prove your point though about the numbers not being to reliable having Anavar nearly as anabolic as Superdrol lol.
 
Renew1

Renew1

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I agree. My bad. The site looked reputable, but they at least suffer from truncating numbers. Maybe someone can find us a better one. That does prove your point though about the numbers not being to reliable having Anavar nearly as anabolic as Superdrol lol.

Yeah.
And think about it this way:

We'd LOVE to have a chart we could go by that would (Correctly) show us numbers for compounds like that.

But those of us who've been around for ages, have looked at these charts more than once, and have come to the conclusion that you just can't go by them, man.

Wishing won't make something true.

:)
 

JoePaul39

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Yeah.
And think about it this way:

We'd LOVE to have a chart we could go by that would (Correctly) show us numbers for compounds like that.

But those of us who've been around for ages, have looked at these charts more than once, and have come to the conclusion that you just can't go by them, man.

Wishing won't make something true.

:)
Ya the whole ratio thing doesn’t seem to accurate, but at least Superdrol got a high rating 😊. Compared to Msten what percent more powerful would you guess Superdrol is? Just want a guess since you have run Superdrol (not sure about Msten).
 
Renew1

Renew1

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Ya the whole ratio thing doesn’t seem to accurate, but at least Superdrol got a high rating 😊. Compared to Msten what percent more powerful would you guess Superdrol is? Just want a guess since you have run Superdrol (not sure about Msten).
Yeah, I've run them both.

It depends upon who you ask.
But for me, I'd say SD is twice as strong.
But that wouldn't really cover everything, because they are also pretty different IMO and IME.

SD blew me away.
It is the strongest anabolic I've ever used (to date).

I like Msten, but for me it isn't anything special.
It isn't in my top 5 or anything.
 
Rad83

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SuperDrol + your trt will leave you no room to say “you’re natural and you just train hard and eat clean” (I’m only saying this, if you’re concerned about people questioning your “natty status”)

The one guy I’ve seen run SD looked damn near unrecognizable halfway thru a 4 week stint.

-

The theme of this thread reminds me of why I was so hyped on Methyldiarizinol and made the thread. The A:A looked damn good, and I was/am looking for something that would help facilitate gains with low androgenic sides...If I remember correctly, that thread had the same info relayed, “the A:A ratings don’t mean shitt” and it’s unfortunate!!
 
Renew1

Renew1

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SuperDrol + your trt will leave you no room to say “you’re natural and you just train hard and eat clean” (I’m only saying this, if you’re concerned about people questioning your “natty status”)

The one guy I’ve seen run SD looked damn near unrecognizable halfway thru a 4 week stint.

-

The theme of this thread reminds me of why I was so hyped on Methyldiarizinol and made the thread. The A:A looked damn good, and I was/am looking for something that would help facilitate gains with low androgenic sides...If I remember correctly, that thread had the same info relayed, “the A:A ratings don’t mean shitt” and it’s unfortunate!!
That's very true.
I always try to keep my Anabolics use seperate from other areas of my life.
And a nice group of people threw a party for me a number of years ago. It was awesome! Lots of delicious food! And of course people were taking pics.
A day or two later, they started sending copies of the pics to me (just being nice. It was my party).
And I looked at those pics and said to myself, "Oh sh*t!"
The jig's up.
I did look like a different guy.
I was HUGE.
 
Last edited:

JoePaul39

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Yeah, I've run them both.

It depends upon who you ask.
But for me, I'd say SD is twice as strong.
But that wouldn't really cover everything, because they are also pretty different IMO and IME.

SD blew me away.
It is the strongest anabolic I've ever used (to date).

I like Msten, but for me it isn't anything special.
It isn't in my top 5 or anything.
I guess the one advantage Msten has is you can run it a little longer so you have more time for gains even though they don’t come at the same rate as Superdrol. Anything over 4 weeks on Superdrol not wise?
 

JoePaul39

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Yeah, I've run them both.

It depends upon who you ask.
But for me, I'd say SD is twice as strong.
But that wouldn't really cover everything, because they are also pretty different IMO and IME.

SD blew me away.
It is the strongest anabolic I've ever used (to date).
I recall you like DMZ too. Do you rate it over Msten? I have run DMZ with good results, but have Msten on hand for “someday”.

Since you had the most success with Superdrol why don’t you just keep runnning it 2 or 3 times a year? If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
 
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I guess the one advantage Msten has is you can run it a little longer so you have more time for gains even though they don’t come at the same rate as Superdrol. Anything over 4 weeks on Superdrol not wise?
That's Generally how I feel about it.
Anything over 30 days is not wise IMO (in general).

Some guys can't last a week on it.
But I've seen some guys go longer than 30 days.

After an initial run, guys will know where they stand.
 
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I recall you like DMZ too. Do you rate it over Msten? I have run DMZ with good results, but have Msten on hand for “someday”.

Since you had the most success with Superdrol why don’t you just keep runnning it 2 or 3 times a year? If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

I honestly would never run SD that much (or recommend it).
It is a very body toxic compound.

I'd much prefer to run Anavar a little more often. It is my favorite compound over-all.

I personally prefer DMZ to Msten.
 

JoePaul39

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SuperDrol + your trt will leave you no room to say “you’re natural and you just train hard and eat clean” (I’m only saying this, if you’re concerned about people questioning your “natty status”)

The one guy I’ve seen run SD looked damn near unrecognizable halfway thru a 4 week stint.

-

The theme of this thread reminds me of why I was so hyped on Methyldiarizinol and made the thread. The A:A looked damn good, and I was/am looking for something that would help facilitate gains with low androgenic sides...If I remember correctly, that thread had the same info relayed, “the A:A ratings don’t mean shitt” and it’s unfortunate!!
I think I would rather enjoy blowing up on Superdrol and intimidating dudes at the gym 😂. Most people who don’t know much about steroids are ignorant about other people’s usage to even the most obvious users. There is an Asian dude my wife works with in cat rescue. I kid you not the guy is like twice as jacked as Brock Lesnar and shredded. He is also in his fifties. My wife knows about my steroid usage so she knows he MUST be on it probably with no breaks, but when she tells others in the cat rescue community they can hardly believe it even though it would be SO obvious to someone like you or me.
 

JoePaul39

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I honestly would never run SD that much (or recommend it).
It is a very body toxic compound.

I'd much prefer to run Anavar a little more often. It is my favorite compound over-all.

I personally prefer DMZ to Msten.
I know it is toxic, but if you only ran it say 3 times a year for 4 weeks at a time you could take you could take like 13 weeks off between cycles which would be plenty of time for your liver to repair itself and your lipids would only be tanked for a few weeks a year.
 

JoePaul39

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I honestly would never run SD that much (or recommend it).
It is a very body toxic compound.

I'd much prefer to run Anavar a little more often. It is my favorite compound over-all.

I personally prefer DMZ to Msten.
Did you get lipid bloods after the Supedrol cycle? Would be curious at how low HDL went and how high liver enzymes went up? When I run DMZ and S23 together my HDL drops way down to 21 so wouldn’t imagine it would go much lower than that with Superdrol?
 
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I know it is toxic, but if you only ran it say 3 times a year for 4 weeks at a time you could take you could take like 13 weeks off between cycles which would be plenty of time for your liver to repair itself and your lipids would only be tanked for a few weeks a year.
I wouldn't do it.
Seriously.
It's some harsh stuff man.
I don't want to trash my body.
 
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Did you get lipid bloods after the Supedrol cycle? Would be curious at how low HDL went and how high liver enzymes went up? When I run DMZ and S23 together my HDL drops way down to 21 so wouldn’t imagine it would go much lower than that with Superdrol?
Yeah, I haven't ran it in A WHILE.
My numbers were pretty trashed, but I don't keep paperwork too long.
(Again ... privacy reasons).
 

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I wouldn't do it.
Seriously.
It's some harsh stuff man.
I don't want to trash my body.
Ya I hear you about health. That is what is most important. That is why I like DMZ, it is not as harsh. Msten probably too.
 
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LOL.
I would say we're trashing this guy's thread ... But you're the guy.
:)
 

BBiceps

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I know it is toxic, but if you only ran it say 3 times a year for 4 weeks at a time you could take you could take like 13 weeks off between cycles which would be plenty of time for your liver to repair itself and your lipids would only be tanked for a few weeks a year.
It doesn’t work that way, at least not for me, if you run something over and over you get used to it more or less. Best is to rotate a few you respond well to, also, if you cycle that much you have to have a goal, a “just to get in shape for 4 weeks” is not a healthy long term reason.
 

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The thing with orals especially the superdrol type ones is if you’re "blowing up" within 4-6 weeks you’re going to lose half of it minimum(with insane genetics) unless you’re blast and cruising which means you’re staying a bit supra after your oral. Superdrol on a good caloric surplus makes people gain a good 15 lbs in a month. At best, humanly possible, 6-7 lbs of this is muscle tissue. AT BEST. Which means the rest is going down the drain right after you’re done. (Glycogen,intra muscular water etc). And the lean tissue you’ve gained will stay depending on your genetic potential, your diet and your training. Mostly genetic though. That’s why I think it’s stupid to run such orals unless you’re blast and cruising. That’s just my opinion though. and whoever is going to say I’m not right : everyone who’s PCTING on this forum would have sick physiques from these god-like orals and we all know 98% of them don’t. All of this to say I wouldn’t waste my time trying to blow up on superdrol or msten or dmz etc.
 
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The thing with orals especially the superdrol type ones is if you’re "blowing up" within 4-6 weeks you’re going to lose half of it minimum(with insane genetics) unless you’re blast and cruising which means you’re staying a bit supra after your oral. Superdrol on a good caloric surplus makes people gain a good 15 lbs in a month. At best, humanly possible, 6-7 lbs of this is muscle tissue. AT BEST. Which means the rest is going down the drain right after you’re done. (Glycogen,intra muscular water etc). And the lean tissue you’ve gained will stay depending on your genetic potential, your diet and your training. Mostly genetic though. That’s why I think it’s stupid to run such orals unless you’re blast and cruising. That’s just my opinion though. and whoever is going to say I’m not right : everyone who’s PCTING on this forum would have sick physiques from these god-like orals and we all know 98% of them don’t. All of this to say I wouldn’t waste my time trying to blow up on superdrol or msten or dmz etc.
I agree with some of what you said here, but definitely not all.
Not that I've ever ran a cycle of any kind "Just to blow up", but sometimes I have (blown up).

But I can look in the mirror at my physique, and see certain specific things that I can directly attribute (not entirely, but to a good extent) to certain cycles. ... Some of them (mostly) oral.

Other people can too, they just don't know it.

I was at a friend's house, and a personal trainer friend of mine (not my trainer) was pointing out my triceps to our buddy.

They don't know it, but a chunk of that foundation was set on a SD run years before.
When I look at my tris, I can't help but think of that particular run, even today.
 

JoePaul39

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That is why I actually wanted to get on trt. My total test was low normal before going on. Wanting to say mid 400s. My free t was below normal so the doctor I found agreed to put me on. He said if my free t wasn’t below normal he wouldn’t have so I consider myself fortunate. Messing with PCT I find to be a pain in the as$ although some would argue so is trt.
 

JoePaul39

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Trt also makes you less prone to gyno too because your test level stays high when on the oral (though of course this isn’t a guarantee you won’t get gyno). Without trt even when you are on a nonaromatizing compound like DMZ you are more prone to get gyno because your test tanks to near zero and you get shut down which throws off the testosterone to estradiol ratio way out of whack.
 

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