Why ATD should never be used for post cycle therapy: new study

frizzlerock said:
so would ATD be of any use in a PH pulse on off days?
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Yeah, works great as a suppression delayer on conventional cycles, stands to reason that taking it on the off nights of a pulse would still work, and dilute the sides also. At 25-37.5mg, most guys don't have any libido adversity with it anyway from my observations, even using it nightly. 50mg+ can cause probs after awhile, but on a pulse maybe not. Might be a very nice application actually.
 
DR.D said:
Not in my research. The consensus I've seen indicates the strongest correlation to LH suppression with DHT > Test > E and with FHS just the reverse, E > Test > DHT. The only thing that really levels the field is supraphysiological levels beyond a few magnitudes of normal, where they all become equally suppressive regardless of metabolite considerations.
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please, i would love to see the references
 
I usually run ATD inverse to Nolva. I get the bottoming out of libido at about two weeks in or so. I generally just tolerate it, since it's helping me keep gains.

Maybe in the future I'll just stick to Nolva and 25 mg. of ATD run straight though, so as to keep libido good. It's only a temp side, so I don't worry too much about it, though.
 
On a side note,Aromatase inhibitors like ATD have been shown to reverse age-related declines in testosterone, as well as primary hypogonadism.

Leder BZ, Rohrer JL, Rubin SD, Gallo J, Longcope C.. "Effects of aromatase inhibition in elderly men with low or borderline-low serum testosterone levels". Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). PMID 15001605. Invalid Link Removed
 
BigVrunga said:
This might explain why some people, myself included, experience a complete libido shutdown on average doses of ATD.

However, in the study it does say they used 15mg/day on a rat. A male rat weighs about .6kg, and that's a dose of ~25mg/kg. At an average dose of 50mg for 200lb, or 90kg human male, that's 1.5mg/kg.

Big difference in the dose/weight ratio there.

Even still, Im not a fan of ATD at doses over 15mg - for PCT I vastly prefer 6-OXO.

BV
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A male rat would have to be pretty old to weigh 0.6kg -- in the lab most are used at weights of 0.2 or 0.3 kg. in addition, doses do not scale 1:1 in animal studies to humans. Generally you would divide the dose given to a rat by 5 or 6 to get a human equivalent dose. So, this would be a dose of 40 to 50 mg/kg per day in rats. Divide that by 5 or 6 and you get about 10 mg/kg in humans. With a bodyweight of 90 kg that equates to a dose of 900 mg. A whopping high dose.
 
Hmm. So does it bind to androgen receptors readily enough that it could be hindering my gains on cycle? I've been taking 25 mg's nolva/25 mg's ATD every other day since the start of my cycle and gains have been less than impressive thus far. Could be a million other things, but just curious if I should switch to 6-bromo for on-cycle AI or if I'm good to use the rest of this inhibit-E I've had laying around forever.
 
indianballer said:
Hmm. So does it bind to androgen receptors readily enough that it could be hindering my gains on cycle? I've been taking 25 mg's nolva/25 mg's ATD every other day since the start of my cycle and gains have been less than impressive thus far. Could be a million other things, but just curious if I should switch to 6-bromo for on-cycle AI or if I'm good to use the rest of this inhibit-E I've had laying around forever.
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Unlikely. What is your cycle? If you were taking 25 mg of some AAS then the ATD would have to have a binding affinity with a significant percentage of the AAS being used to have a singificant antagonist effect.
 
Good stuff. The thread just sparked the thought and I started scratching my head. Cycle is 180 mg's m1,4add currently...so estro control on cycle is almost imperitive in this instance and that became apparent early. I'll stick to what I've been doing as all estro sides have been controlled extremely well, and my joints have even been aching in the gym, which I certainly didn't expect on m14,ad even with a 2 pronged E-control attack.
 
indianballer said:
Good stuff. The thread just sparked the thought and I started scratching my head. Cycle is 180 mg's m1,4add currently...so estro control on cycle is almost imperitive in this instance and that became apparent early. I'll stick to what I've been doing as all estro sides have been controlled extremely well, and my joints have even been aching in the gym, which I certainly didn't expect on m14,ad even with a 2 pronged E-control attack.
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In this case, it could possibly be relevent since the binding affintiy of m14add and dianabol are both pretty low. No way of knowing for sure though.
 
sethroberts said:
In this case, it could possibly be relevent since the binding affintiy of m14add and dianabol are both pretty low. No way of knowing for sure though.
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But, isn't it fact or belief that it depends on how much stronger or weaker the binding affinity of his ATD product is comparable to the PH/DS he is taking?
 
hardknock said:
But, isn't it fact or belief that it depends on how much stronger or weaker the binding affinity of his ATD product is comparable to the PH/DS he is taking?
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Say you were taking an AAS at 25 mg that had a binding affinity for the androgen receptor of 100. Say you were also taking ATD at 25 mg at it had a binding affinity of 5 for the androgen receptor. In this hypothetical case, then it would be unlikely that an antagonistic efect of ATD at the AR would be of any consequence -- this example would assume similar bioavailability and half-lifes. As you can see there are qute a few variables involved but hopefully you get the idea.
 
sethroberts said:
Say you were taking an AAS at 25 mg that had a binding affinity for the androgen receptor of 100. Say you were also taking ATD at 25 mg at it had a binding affinity of 5 for the androgen receptor. In this hypothetical case, then it would be unlikely that an antagonistic efect of ATD at the AR would be of any consequence -- this example would assume similar bioavailability and half-lifes. As you can see there are qute a few variables involved but hopefully you get the idea.
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Yes, the idea of your statement is quite clear.
 
They just recalled ATD.

NutraPlanet ATD 90 Capsules
Recall


" In our continued efforts of providing quality and service to our customers, we proactively tested the ATD caps because they were produced by the same company who manufactured our Trione caps. After receiving the test results back, the product did not contain any of the active ingredient, only small amounts of caffeine and filler."
 
lutherblsstt said:
They just recalled ATD.

NutraPlanet ATD 90 Capsules
Recall


" In our continued efforts of providing quality and service to our customers, we proactively tested the ATD caps because they were produced by the same company who manufactured our Trione caps. After receiving the test results back, the product did not contain any of the active ingredient, only small amounts of caffeine and filler."
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That's a particular supplier of bulk ATD, not the compund itself. There's been and probably still is plenty of good ATD out there. I've used it from Gaspari, Juggernaut, Designer Supplements and SNS, always with good results.
 
sethroberts said:
Say you were taking an AAS at 25 mg that had a binding affinity for the androgen receptor of 100. Say you were also taking ATD at 25 mg at it had a binding affinity of 5 for the androgen receptor. In this hypothetical case, then it would be unlikely that an antagonistic efect of ATD at the AR would be of any consequence -- this example would assume similar bioavailability and half-lifes. As you can see there are qute a few variables involved but hopefully you get the idea.
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BUMP!


Does anyone know what the actual bidning affinity IS for ATD?

I was interested in using it in place of Nolva during an Anadrol/test cycle. I understand anadrol has a very low binding affinity to the AR so this may not be ideal. (Im Unclear whether it will compete with other AAS being stacked, thus reducing gains)

anyone have a link or perhaps knows off hand what the binding affinity of ATD is and what the BA of other popular AAS are? (example: dbol, Test, etc)

Thanks.
 
DR.D said:
Well 75mg or more is a righteous test booster for sure, but yeah if you wanna preserve libido 50mg is the max IME. If you have some MFX or DHEA in PCT that's good libido insurance anyway, but even just 25mg of ATD is a good anti-e with no perceivable anti-a effects on a cycle.

The test boosting becomes impressive closer to 50mg and 25mg actually increases libido for me. In women, I've seen 25mg send libido through the roof! It does seem to be dependent on the presence of functional ovaries though which tells me it's probably not a central mechanism that explains the low dose libido boost, it's just that too many central ARs get filled up and nullified with higher doses probably.
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I have searched the world over about ATD and women for about the last two years. In laymans terms what does it do to increase libido? Please Dr D if you are out there reply! How many times a week should a female use 25mg? For how long?
 
jart45 said:
I have searched the world over about ATD and women for about the last two years. In laymans terms what does it do to increase libido? Please Dr D if you are out there reply! How many times a week should a female use 25mg? For how long?
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I've seen women become hyperstimulated sexually after just a few days of 25mg. One of those women had polycystic disorders, so not sure how it all fits together with such a small sample population. I doubt all women would react the same, but I'd guess most would achieve enhanced libido (at least initially.)
 
I always wondered when people say it killed my libido... I think to myself.. I don't have much of a libido since 21.. and I don't know why!

My hormones came in, the endo asked if i was taking steroids.. low e, high total test, androgen through the roof, dhea through the roof.. so eh.. can't have it all hey!
 
Thank you so much Dr. D! It couldnt negatively effect a woman as far as health wise could it? It should increase ability to build muscle too?
 
It will have an effect on monthly periods.

I would look up the sides associated with the prescription drug, Aromasin, which should act as a good reference. ATD is structurally similar, operating via the same functional group.
 
hey guys i am on my 5th week of epi dosing at 20/30/30/30/30 .. i have been reading alot about ATD and i am now concerned about my pct ... i have ATD, reversitol v2, and reduce xt on hand .. i jus started week 5 today being the first day .. i am wondering if i should take atd tonight and for the rest of week 5 and also through week 1 of pct.. so thats 2 weeks on atd total at 50 mg .. i am thinking this because i am reading that atd is great for your strength but terrible for your libido .. also during week one and throught the rest of my pct i will take the reduce xt .. then from week 2 on take reversitol and reduce xt .. and save the ATD for in between cycles ?? can you guys please tell me what i should do by tonight before bed so i can take this ATD at least 25 mg .. thanks
 
jart45 said:
Thank you so much Dr. D! It couldnt negatively effect a woman as far as health wise could it? It should increase ability to build muscle too?
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i can see if exacerbating polycystic ovary disease since it probably will cause increased gonadotropin secretion. That would make those cysts grow bigger even
 
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