Who wants a new BLR SERM?!

Should BLR release a new SERM?

  • Yes New BLR SERM!!!

    Votes: 79 90.8%

  • No I love shady RC chems.

    Votes: 8 9.2%
  • Total voters
    87
Etomic said:
I asked on pg14 but was ignored too.
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Nobody should be assuming this, it is completely unethical for a company to make such statements without actually having clinical evidence. Im not sure BLR has said it compares to real SERM's although it is certainly implied. If BLR is so confident that this stuff levels with real SERM's then attract investors run clinical studies, get actual data not the old "yeah i feel recovered after two weeks" quoted from the apparent testers.... Until then its absurd to make these statements. Rant over.
 
yelis300 said:
Understood, thanks for your time sir.
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Of course my friend.
The reason Rebirth is so exciting is because for pretty much ever there hasnt been a solid SERM on the OTC market.
This stuff is super solid.
 
kissdadookie said:
Wait, how did you not know PCT basics? Example, nolva inhibits letro and adex. Basics.
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In terms of clinical significance (as measured by enough change in therapeutic blood range), neither an anastrazole or letrozole interact with tamoxifen. Although anastrazole and letrozole blood levels are reduced by an average of 27% and 38%, respectively the clinical insignificance of this is established on evidence that identified adequate estrogen suppression when tamoxifen is co-administered. This is evidence established in the population group that these medications were developed for: women with breast cancer. So it may not be very transferable to use of these AIs in males- especially when there is significantly more aromatase substrate (androgens)- be it endogenous or exogenous.

Tamoxifen and its active metabolite are inducers of CYP3A4- which is an phase I oxidative liver enzyme involved in a lot of medications metabolism. Therefore it actually increases the amount of this enzyme (albeit it weak compared to other 3A4 inducers)- so substrates co administered are more rapidly metabolised. As the primary metabolic pathway of letrozole involves oxidation by CYP3A4 (and CYP2A6) tamoxifen can therefore decrease the blood level of active letrozole by accelerating this oxidation.
Anastrazole is also metabolised by CYP3A4 however also undergoes primary metabolism by other cytochrome enzymes and also primary glucoronidation. As there is lesser amount of the medication undertaking the interactive metabolic route- it is possible that this may explain the lesser impact on blood levels. Additionally letrozole takes a lot longer to establish steady state concentration than does anastrazole (60days vs 7 days) so theoretically could be a lot more vulnerable to influences on kinetics.
 
rowz4broz said:
will this product have any effect on preexisting gyno?
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If its estro driven it will certainly help. If its been there a long time it may not completely eradicate it just like any serm. i would use Rebirth for acute relief and maybe an ai to get estro levels under control long term.
 
Got 3 bottles of viron sitting here saying take me!! I tell the bottles wait BRUNDEL has a new ai on the way!! Lol r.i.p. Formeron..
 
Cjg said:
Got 3 bottles of viron sitting here saying take me!! I tell the bottles wait BRUNDEL has a new ai on the way!! Lol r.i.p. Formeron..
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Tell me about it! I have a little less than 2 weeks worth the form left and I'm gonna miss it. Wish I'd stocked up when I had the chance.
 
brundel said:
If its estro driven it will certainly help. If its been there a long time it may not completely eradicate it just like any serm. i would use Rebirth for acute relief and maybe an ai to get estro levels under control long term.
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INtresting, i may need to look into thi. if there is an otc serm that can help at all people suffering with gyno there will be a huge demand for this product
 
rowz4broz said:
brundel send me a bottle and ill post before and afters of nipple puffiness
idk about bloodwork though but if it can reduce my puffiness ill be ecstatic
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That's not going to really inform anybody if this is a viable replacement to actual pharm/RC though... Just sayin. I would think at least one or two people Brundel had testing this stuff in the ~2 years he's been testing the stuff would have came back with before and after bloodwork.
 
drinkyboy said:
Just to add to that, it would be nice to order supps and it's a 1 stop shop. Talk about a convenience!
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Soon youll be able to get:

-2 different AIs, a transdermal thats also an insane fat burner and an oral thats also anabolic.

-a SERM,

-Prolactin inhibitor,

-Test booster,

-Follidrone,

-2 new anabolics, One is a combo product with EPI and 2 new ingredients and some other goodies. The other is a whole new type of anabolic. Ive never seen anyone do this before.

-a new PRE,

-a fat burner

all from us and all very solid. RC's are unreliable at very best.
You can rely on BLR 100% of the time.
 
rowz4broz said:
brundel send me a bottle and ill post before and afters of nipple puffiness
idk about bloodwork though but if it can reduce my puffiness ill be ecstatic
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How long have you had gyno?
What stage is it? Size? How does it feel? Solid mass?
How did you get it? Puberty or cycling?
Whats your present bodyfat %. Nipple puffiness doesnt always mean gyno. If there is no mass its probably not gyno.
If it is gyno and relatively new we can dominate it.
 
brundel said:
RC's are unreliable at very best.
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Actually, RC's are quite reliable if one is shopping for the standard things like sildenafil, letro, clomid, nolva, anastrozole, clen, and exemestae. It's actually kind of hard to find BUNK RC for those things. This is due to these things already being manufactured en mass in China (iirc). It's the peptides and other more exotic things that RC companies usually carry which are questionable.
 
kissdadookie said:
Actually, RC's are quite reliable if one is shopping for the standard things like sildenafil, letro, clomid, nolva, anastrozole, clen, and exemestae. It's actually kind of hard to find BUNK RC for those things. This is due to these things already being manufactured en mass in China (iirc). It's the peptides and other more exotic things that RC companies usually carry which are questionable.
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I disagree. RC's reliable? No way sir. You need a reliable source. What u saying is u basically buy from anywhere and it'll be legit?
 
kissdadookie said:
Actually, RC's are quite reliable if one is shopping for the standard things like sildenafil, letro, clomid, nolva, anastrozole, clen, and exemestae. It's actually kind of hard to find BUNK RC for those things. This is due to these things already being manufactured en mass in China (iirc). It's the peptides and other more exotic things that RC companies usually carry which are questionable.
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False.
Its hard to find bunk RC chems. Really. Manufactured "en mass" in China. Really? Sorry no.
I know several people who own RC sites. You are 100% incorrect.

Your only posts here are just to conflict everything I say even if you have to make things up or lie to do so. Find something constructive to do aside from being a thorn in my shoe.
 
brundel said:
False. Its hard to find bunk RC chems. Really. Manufactured "en mass" in China. Really? Sorry no. I know several people who own RC sites. You are 100% incorrect. Your only posts here are just to conflict everything I say even if you have to make things up or lie to do so. Find something constructive to do aside from being a thorn in my shoe.
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Exactly what I said. Crazy he said and thinks that.
 
brundel said:
False.
Its hard to find bunk RC chems. Really. Manufactured "en mass" in China. Really? Sorry no.
I know several people who own RC sites. You are 100% incorrect.

Your only posts here are just to conflict everything I say even if you have to make things up or lie to do so. Find something constructive to do aside from being a thorn in my shoe.
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1) Most of these RC companies are getting their raws from the same source. It's essentially same bottled products, different labels.

2) I'm not conflicting with things you are saying, I'm pointing out that one should be cautious when reading your claims here until bloodwork is provided to demonstrate that your new products are viable alternatives.

3) The fact that you keep ignoring the bloodwork question being asked and then continue to essentially imply that people can just replace their RC/pharm with your new upcoming product is quite alarming, as this is completely irresponsible of you to do so, unless you can demonstrate that these are are viable alternatives.

4) Define constructive, because from where I'm sitting/standing, I find what I'm pointing out to be highly constructive and pro-consumer. Unless in your mind, constructive ='s let's bolster up the claims you are making for your upcoming products without the claims being substantiated via the only definitive validation one can provide which is pre and post bloodwork.

5) I've been quite well behaved thus far. Haven't slammed you. Haven't slammed your products. Haven't slammed your company. I've simply asked questions which a consumer should be asking or wondering about along with pointing out observations which would likely help consumers looking into products to use for PCT.

Lastly, can you demonstrate that most RC are bunk at this point in time? Because Patrick Arnold certainly has expressed his opinion on this matter (that these are going to be pretty much good to go for the standard things). Along with the guys over on the PED podcast. Plus there was that recent sildafanil report that came out recently, high purity, some being higher purity than actual commercial viagra.

Do I really need to point out how you are the one that needs to substantiate your claims for your product as well as claiming that most RC is bunk? Since you have a direct invested interest in this, obviously (which is fine, but I don't want to see a bunch of people having failed PCTs because they believed unsubstantiated claims).

halfhuman said:
I disagree. RC's reliable? No way sir. You need a reliable source. What u saying is u basically buy from anywhere and it'll be legit?
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Not from some random no-name fly by night. The main ones that most of us frequent however (and likely even the obscure ones), they are likely going to be legit.

How have you come upon the conclusion that most are bunk? Have you tested them (as in, lab testing the product)? Or are you basing it on things like "let's see if it does anything to my puffy nipples" or some other personal measurement that really can't be quantified in any sort of meaningful way?
 
kissdadookie said:
1) Most of these RC companies are getting their raws from the same source. It's essentially same bottled products, different labels. 2) I'm not conflicting with things you are saying, I'm pointing out that one should be cautious when reading your claims here until bloodwork is provided to demonstrate that your new products are viable alternatives. 3) The fact that you keep ignoring the bloodwork question being asked and then continue to essentially imply that people can just replace their RC/pharm with your new upcoming product is quite alarming, as this is completely irresponsible of you to do so, unless you can demonstrate that these are are viable alternatives. 4) Define constructive, because from where I'm sitting/standing, I find what I'm pointing out to be highly constructive and pro-consumer. Unless in your mind, constructive ='s let's bolster up the claims you are making for your upcoming products without the claims being substantiated via the only definitive validation one can provide which is pre and post bloodwork. 5) I've been quite well behaved thus far. Haven't slammed you. Haven't slammed your products. Haven't slammed your company. I've simply asked questions which a consumer should be asking or wondering about along with pointing out observations which would likely help consumers looking into products to use for PCT. Lastly, can you demonstrate that most RC are bunk at this point in time? Because Patrick Arnold certainly has expressed his opinion on this matter (that these are going to be pretty much good to go for the standard things). Along with the guys over on the PED podcast. Plus there was that recent sildafanil report that came out recently, high purity, some being higher purity than actual commercial viagra. Do I really need to point out how you are the one that needs to substantiate your claims for your product as well as claiming that most RC is bunk? Since you have a direct invested interest in this, obviously (which is fine, but I don't want to see a bunch of people having failed PCTs because they believed unsubstantiated claims). Not from some random no-name fly by night. The main ones that most of us frequent however (and likely even the obscure ones), they are likely going to be legit. How have you come upon the conclusion that most are bunk? Have you tested them (as in, lab testing the product)? Or are you basing it on things like "let's see if it does anything to my puffy nipples" or some other personal measurement that really can't be quantified in any sort of meaningful way?
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All the above
 
kissdadookie said:
I don't get what you are saying there, you've just said all of the above to my wall of text. LoL.
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You've provided no evidence for your claim about the safety and mass production of RCs in China. It's purely anecdotal.

And good luck beating the bloodwork bandwagon. Very few companies, if any, post that in their marketing; and when Brundel has provided it in the past, people still shot it down.
 
Piston Honda said:
You've provided no evidence for your claim about the safety and mass production of RCs in China. It's purely anecdotal.

And good luck beating the bloodwork bandwagon. Very few companies, if any, post that in their marketing; and when Brundel has provided it in the past, people still shot it down.
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How is the onus of proving it on me though? I'm not the one claiming that I have a product which is a viable alternative to RC/pharma PCT. I'm the potential consumer here, I'm asking questions from the consumer standpoint to help me decide if this is something I would be able to replace my typical clomid, nolva, etc. with.

It's also btw, purely anecdotal to claim that most RC is bunk. This goes both ways.

Obviously, I don't need to point out how a person/company with vested interest in a product that directly competes with RC/pharma may not be the best person to just straight up take on face value?
 
halfhuman said:
Lol meaning knowing its bunk, people running it and not getting back to normal, and labs. Basically everything lol
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That doesn't prove anything. To prove the products were bunk, the actual product needs to be tested. Now, if it was a substantial number of people with labs coming back using the same product, then ok, highly suspect of that product then.

Take a look at the Baylor paper on PCT that was published last year. They gave SERM (obviously real clomid and what not) treatment and have found that a good amount of people needs treatment much longer than just the typical 4 weeks one reads about on the internet (which brings up another good point, that whole 4 weeks of PCT suggestion, one may wish to rethink that as it's a completely arbitrary amount of time for PCT).
 
Kissadookie it's simple bro.. If u don't feel comfortable with replacing your rc's with rebirth than don't!! Lol stick to what u been doing and the world goes on
 
It addressed a lot more than your brain could imagine!! U make yourself look bad Going back and forth over a supplement.. Every time BRUNDEL comes out with something there always that guy challenging the ifs and whys a product work. Then they try it and it works than what?????
 
kissdadookie said:
How is the onus of proving it on me though? I'm not the one claiming that I have a product which is a viable alternative to RC/pharma PCT. I'm the potential consumer here, I'm asking questions from the consumer standpoint to help me decide if this is something I would be able to replace my typical clomid, nolva, etc. with. It's also btw, purely anecdotal to claim that most RC is bunk. This goes both ways. Obviously, I don't need to point out how a person/company with vested interest in a product that directly competes with RC/pharma may not be the best person to just straight up take on face value?
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I'm pointing out how your claims are just as unsubstantiated, perhaps more so, as you feel BLR's are.

And you are a consumer. You can consume RC as easily and upon the same evidence/assumption (your choice) of purity and effectiveness as you can consume Brundel's SERM.
 
Cjg said:
It addressed a lot more than your brain could imagine!! U make yourself look bad Going back and forth over a supplement.. Every time BRUNDEL comes out with something there always that guy challenging the ifs and whys a product work. Then they try it and it works than what?????
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I can only chuckle at your comment. I don't think insulting me actually does much for you case there. If it's insults you wish to toss though, feel free to toss them my way via PM. Don't want to clutter this thread with nothing but insults.
 
Piston Honda said:
I'm pointing out how your claims are just as unsubstantiated, perhaps more so, as you feel BLR's are.

And you are a consumer. You can consume RC as easily and upon the same evidence/assumption (your choice) of purity and effectiveness as you can consume Brundel's SERM.
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Actually, I've referenced where I'm gleaning my information/anecdotes/etc. from. The opinions from those two hold far more value than you or a person selling something that is attempting to directly compete with typical PCT drugs.

It doesn't take a genius to grasp that people complaining about bunk SERMS because they are still suppressed (without bloodwork) or getting puffy nips or libido hasn't come back yet, doesn't mean diddly squat. Is there a widespread instance where a lot of people are running the same product and basically all come back with bloodwork showing that they are still heavily suppressed? If not, then these anecdotes are pretty meaningless (could be other factors causing them to still be suppressed, they may need a longer PCT, perhaps their testicles are incredibly unresponsive, since SERMS are dealing with mainly the hypothalamus, not the testes). Unless of course someone was testing the actual products to find that they are either truly underdosed or don't contain the drug in the first place.

I've actually read MANY posts of people claiming that they have bunk clomid because they are not super emotional running it. Do I need to really point out how asinine that is? Yet these are the types of anecdotal feedback people are using to figure out if their clomid is bunk or not.
 
kissdadookie said:
Actually, I've referenced where I'm gleaning my information/anecdotes/etc. from. The opinions from those two hold far more value than you or a person selling something that is attempting to directly compete with typical PCT drugs. It doesn't take a genius to grasp that people complaining about bunk SERMS because they are still suppressed (without bloodwork) or getting puffy nips or libido hasn't come back yet, doesn't mean diddly squat. Is there a widespread instance where a lot of people are running the same product and basically all come back with bloodwork showing that they are still heavily suppressed? If not, then these anecdotes are pretty meaningless (could be other factors causing them to still be suppressed, they may need a longer PCT, perhaps their testicles are incredibly unresponsive, since SERMS are dealing with mainly the hypothalamus, not the testes). Unless of course someone was testing the actual products to find that they are either truly underdosed or don't contain the drug in the first place.
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So PA and the PEDP are your sources? How are their tests or opinions different from anyone else's?
 
Piston Honda said:
So PA and the PEDP are your sources? How are their tests or opinions different from anyone else's?
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The difference is credibility. Both are anecdotes and opinions, thus ones best move is to go with whom are more credible and have a track record of knowing the subject at hand inside and out.

I'm completely open to you providing other opinions of equally credible folks with equally good track records of knowing the subject at hand that have opposing opinions.
 
kissdadookie said:
The difference is credibility. Both are anecdotes and opinions, thus ones best move is to go with whom are more credible and have a track record of knowing the subject at hand inside and out.
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And Brundel's near-death experience taking what was labeled Clomid but was actually Clen at Clomid dosage isn't enough to sway you to consider that maybe he has put a lot of time and effort to make a product he himself would use?
 
Piston Honda said:
And Brundel's near-death experience taking what was labeled Clomid but was actually Clen at Clomid dosage isn't enough to sway you to consider that maybe he has put a lot of time and effort to make a product he himself would use?
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How is that in any shape or form relevant to the drugs being bunk or not? That's clearly a labeling issue and likely a labeling issue from the company. Yes, shame on that company for being careless at labeling correctly. That company should go out of business.

However, that is not demonstrating that these drugs are bunk from RC. Like I mentioned, most of these RC companies likely get their products from the same sources, then they just take the bottles and label them.

Please keep in mind that this thread and the way this new product is being expressed on here, is that it is a viable alternative that can replace ones RC SERM. This more or less is done under the assumption that one is talking about drugs which aren't mislabelled. Then the quality of RC was brought up, implying that there's a lot of bunk drugs floating around.

Bunk drugs =/= mislabeled products. Two different things. Or better yet, two different issues/problems.
 
this reminds me of the time someone went in on olympus labs for their supposedly bunk "trest", and yet it was lab tested and all legit. I wouldn't replace anything pharm grade/RC grade ( a serm) for rebirth, why? Because why try to reinvent the wheel, use what works. I have yet to order a bunk RC chem serm. The biggest issue with coming out with a natural OTC serm product is finding people to risk their HPTA health, in pct, to test it. Then convincing people to switch over to somthing that has been used forever, to somthing that has just came out.
 
I like this discussion, I believe its all valid.

Also, I like BLR and trust brundel. Time and blood work will tell us what we're after here...
 
kissdadookie said:
That doesn't prove anything. To prove the products were bunk, the actual product needs to be tested. Now, if it was a substantial number of people with labs coming back using the same product, then ok, highly suspect of that product then. Take a look at the Baylor paper on PCT that was published last year. They gave SERM (obviously real clomid and what not) treatment and have found that a good amount of people needs treatment much longer than just the typical 4 weeks one reads about on the internet (which brings up another good point, that whole 4 weeks of PCT suggestion, one may wish to rethink that as it's a completely arbitrary amount of time for PCT).
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Who the hell is going to test all RC's and at that know if their even official all the time? Could be real and also low doses. Ex clomid 50mg per serving ( in reality 15-20mg) happens all the time. Now I don't feed into these discussions so case close

Simple don't use our product and go RC. Ik you'll keep all your gains. Your good to go you know who and how much your getting every time.
 
halfhuman said:
Who the hell is going to test all RC's and at that know if their even official all the time? Could be real and also low doses. Ex clomid 50mg per serving ( in reality 15-20mg) happens all the time. Now I don't feed into these discussions so case close

Simple don't use our product and go RC. Ik you'll keep all your gains. Your good to go you know who and how much your getting every time.
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I've addressed the alternative to having to test the RC drugs. That alternative is to read a mountain of feedback and see a substantial trend in the drug from a particular company not working. This is something that in recent times, I have not seen and I highly doubt others have noticed as well. So what basis does one really have claiming that RC is highly bunk?

Let me also point out that the expectation of users here looking forwards to this new OTC product appears to boil down to nothing more than "let's see if my puffy nips goes down using this stuff" and other similar notions. Does one really need to highlight how that is not a good way to judge your SERM?

The ultimate point that I have brought up and reiterating is this: if a bunch of people go testing this new product and come back saying the stuff works great via such markers as if their "puffy nips" (which by the way, it's silly in and of itself as so many people start thinking they have gyno just because they are carrying a bit of fat in their beast without understanding that it's possibly stubborn fat that they need to keep cutting to get rid of), that creates a situation which is sort of alarming. That situation being a slew of people running a possible ineffective PCT blindly.

kisaj said:
In before, "yeah but..." comments.
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That not going to be coming from me I'm afraid. As there really hasn't been much in terms of substantial rebuttals. Not knocking BLR. I've been using (-)epi, thus far I like it. So BLR deserves lots of kudos for getting that into the popular mindshare.
 
Why do you feel like you need to be the consumer advocate? Obviously you are one of the only people that is so distressed over this product, so as has been pointed out- DON'T TAKE IT. There is nothing new that will be brought to this topic by you continually saying the same thing. Try to rest and forget about it.
 
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