conkertheking
Member
Do we know yet which estrogen receptors this antagonises and which it agonises?
Who wants a new BLR SERM?!
- Thread starter brundel
- Start date
brundel
Board Sponsor
Yes they did order. Their purchasing guy is gone and the owner is now making all purchases. Unfortunately hes not on the forums and doesnt really know whats up and coming. So.....he made a small initial order which is fine except for now we are sold out so...they will get 12 and be OOS for 2 months.
Dont worry though TGB and Strong supps have a TON of stock.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Yes sir of course
Give me a sec to get to my other comp and Ill post a study or two before I leave for the office.
Just got back from vacation so things are HECTIC!.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Here is a quote from one of the studies regarding Ellagic acid.
"ERR and ERâ responded differently to ellagic acid, which displayed a low but
significant estrogenic activity on ERR and complete antagonist
activity on ERâ at low concentrations (10-7 to 10-9 M). This
is similar to the estrogen agonist/antagonists activities of
tamoxifen, 4-OH-tamoxifen, and raloxifen, which display low
but significant estrogenic activity in hERR- but only antagonism
in hERâ-reporter cell systems (28). Thus, ellagic acid, a plant
polyphenol, functions like the known partial agonists/antagonists
tamoxifen, 4-OH-tamoxifen, and raloxifen. The differences in
the responsiveness between ERR and ERâ to ellagic acid may
be attributed to hERâ having an AF1 domain that allows only
partial agonism in the presence of ellagic acid, similar to
tamoxifen (29)."
"ERR and ERâ responded differently to ellagic acid, which displayed a low but
significant estrogenic activity on ERR and complete antagonist
activity on ERâ at low concentrations (10-7 to 10-9 M). This
is similar to the estrogen agonist/antagonists activities of
tamoxifen, 4-OH-tamoxifen, and raloxifen, which display low
but significant estrogenic activity in hERR- but only antagonism
in hERâ-reporter cell systems (28). Thus, ellagic acid, a plant
polyphenol, functions like the known partial agonists/antagonists
tamoxifen, 4-OH-tamoxifen, and raloxifen. The differences in
the responsiveness between ERR and ERâ to ellagic acid may
be attributed to hERâ having an AF1 domain that allows only
partial agonism in the presence of ellagic acid, similar to
tamoxifen (29)."
kissdadookie
Well-known member
I dont want to make a direct comparison to a medication in my words. Instead when i return from my vacation ill post a study that shows its moa and makes those comparisons. This way ots a study quote and not the owners quote. But youll see why we use it
This stuff is really amazing. Very mild agonist and complete antagonist depending on erb or a.
Does the new product work on the hypothalamus?
QuinoaSucks
Member
Will be interesting to see labs of someone testing ellagic acid as a PCT. Anyone willing to take the dive?
drinkyboy
Well-known member
I am willing and will be
booneman77
Legend
good man.
Quads_of_Stee
Well-known member
got everyones hopes up. Honestly time will tell if this is good or not. So far halfhuman had good results and we know that
abformulations
Legend
Soon enough. Won't know from everyone else till at least 3 weeks if some are on cycle already.
abformulations
Legend
I will make a new thread in two weeks or so for everyone to post results on.
JeremyNG25
Active member
Should rebirth be used for 4 or 8 weeks?
abformulations
Legend
Good question.
Personally I would run rebirth like this.
2 caps for two weeks and 1 cap for 4 (1 bottle) that's how I would run it.
For a light cycle all 8 weeks.
max d
Member
So do you taper down on this like nolva where u start high then taper down through pct? I guess when people start coming out with bloods we'll figure this out?
abformulations
Legend
No need to. When I ran mine I did 1 cap per day for 4 weeks and it was enough.
My dosing scheme is to get brought back quick. I felt fully recovered in 3 weeks and running it at 1 cap. I felt if ran at 2 it would've been immediately. Imo you guys should feel back to normal within a week or two.
But we shall wait and see logs as well
Mission1
Well-known member
What are you considering a light cycle? Length or compound ?
abformulations
Legend
You could say both.
Compound like hdrol, Epi ran for 6 weeks is light. Dosage dependent as well.
Heavy cycle like Sd and bridged cycles or even high doses of the above as well.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
There's going to be logs with bloodwork?
Mission1
Well-known member
Very interesting. Thanks.
metallifter87
Member
Brindle props man I've been reading the logs day by day and I can't wait to try this Serm I just ordered 2 bottles last week can't wait to see what this product can do
brundel
Board Sponsor
Thanks bro, youll love this stuff. As solid a SERM as Ive ever seen.
brundel
Board Sponsor
I dont think you really have to taper. I would just keep the dose static personally.
For PCT 4 weeks it plenty. 1-2 caps per day.
I would also use an AI to reduce estrogen levels and something like Viron if you can afford all 3.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Just wait for reviews and logs with bloods.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Yes it is for certain. Its strong enough for ANY purpose you would use a SERM.
abformulations
Legend
Yes sir
kissdadookie
Well-known member
You've stated that you've been testing the product for ~2 years, are their bloods from those ~2 years that would make this comparable to actual SERMs for notably suppressive cycles of anabolics?
brundel
Board Sponsor
Fantastic.
Presently we are testing 2.
1 is an oral, VERY stout with some anabolic properties.
2 is a transdermal, comparable to Formeron. Its a med strength AI with some other goodies added in. Some really cool analogues and unusual plant extracts. I expect this will be ready to go within 4 weeks.
The oral perhaps 6 depending on how labs go.
Also we will begin trials with a new type of anabolic starting in maybe a week. This is exciting stuff for sure.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Presently we are not researching serm ai interactions.
Do you have a link to studies supporting this^^?
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Wait, how did you not know PCT basics?
Example, nolva inhibits letro and adex. Basics.
NoAddedHmones
Well-known member
How many people you got working in r&d (pubmed searching) at BLR?
Mission1
Well-known member
3...... Me, myself, and I.
brundel
Board Sponsor
It doesnt take a ton of people to search through studies.
Testing takes alot more.
R&D isnt just pubmed searching but I assume most know better than this. If it were life would be alot easier and everyone would have new product instead of the same old things. Id take more vacations as well.
Testing takes alot more.
R&D isnt just pubmed searching but I assume most know better than this. If it were life would be alot easier and everyone would have new product instead of the same old things. Id take more vacations as well.
NoAddedHmones
Well-known member
Reason I ask, you continually say "we" when ever referring to product developement etc.
JeremyNG25
Active member
Good to hear that one bottle is enough for a PCT. I'll probably dose 2 caps for 2 weeks and 1 cap for 4 weeks like dude above was saying. Just to get full recovery
yelis300
Member
I'll see what I can find. I read an old thread on t-nation that said nolva can reduce blood levels of arimidex and letrozole but there were no links to studies in the thread.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Nolva inhibits the letro and adex. Or it may be the reverse, would have to dig it up. This is not true for aromasin though (iirc). Well known. On the flip side though, clomid + any of the AIs is ok.
Am I the only one that is concerned that Brundel is not aware of this? Also, am I the only one that is concerned that people are going to assume that this OTC product is a viable replacement for RC/pharm PCT without having bloodwork to demonstrate that the OTC product is indeed an effective alternative? I'm not trying to rain on BLRs parade here, props for pushing new products with novel ideas and ingredients but PCT is kind of important and it's a bit nonsensical to spend all of one's focus on planning a cycle, running it, then having a possibly bad PCT ending with one still being suppressed without knowing it, then running another cycle, etc.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Yes sir. Most of the digging I do myself.
I do not, however, have the capacity to synthesize or extract. So there are others who do this portion.
Then others still who do compound testing.
Eventually it gets to public testing and you guys start hearing about things. For example, currently I am testing a new hormonal ingredient (non anabolic) for the PWO. Looks fn AMAZING on paper but this isnt enough, for me at least.
So...we have to research it.
Investigate if its possible to extract or synthesize at a reasonable cost.
Have it manufactured.
Run trials for effect and safety
Etc
Etc
Etc.
Its not reasonable to think I do this solo
But I do work pretty much 7 days a week.
The Ellagic took forever because the cyclodextrin complexing was exceptionally tough with it.
Hundreds of kg of raw materials were sacrificed and it took a long time to perfect the process.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Ive never seen a study that indicates ellagic acid will reduce blood levels of aromatase inhibitors.
Ellagic acid is also not nolva.
yelis300
Member
I know this isn't a research study but I just copied this off the thread page:
Nolva: Usually dosed from 10-100 mgs, Nolva is best dosed at 20-40 mgs. It has a certain affinity for binding to breast tissue receptors that Clomid doesn't. It can significantly raise Testosterone levels. However, it can reduce IGF-1 levels. It is commonly said that Nolva can accomplish at 20 mgs what Clomid can at 150mgs. Something to keep in mind. Nolva does not decrease the bodies LH response to LHRH like Clomid can. It can reduce the blood levels of Arimidex and Letro rendering them less effective. It does not affect Aromasin."
brundel
Board Sponsor
As far as I know only letro is affected by nolva.
Arimidex is commonly used with nolvadex for cancer treatment but they are relatively similar drugs (letro and adex)
Either way, again this doesnt mean it is the same with ellagic acid.
SERMS and AIs have been used in concert for decades for PCT. Its not really an issue IMO.
If your super concerned dont mix nolva and letro.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
The reduction in igf-1 has to do with increased estrogen. That's what the SERM is used for in PCT. It affects the hypothalamus and signals to the body that you don't have enough estrogen. What happens when your body thinks you don't have enough estrogen? It tries to balance itself out by producing more. How does it do this? It needs to produce more test so that it can convert it to estrogen. Thus you're kickstarting your body to produce test again.
Also, clomid is actually more effective because it acts more on the hypothalamus. Nolva is popular because it also directly blocks estrogen from acting on the receptors in beast tissue thus can prevent gyno in those susceptible to it.
Lastly, for most people, 50 mg of clomid is a good dose for PCT.
Look into the Baylor PCT paper that was published last year.
Etomic
Member
I asked on pg14 but was ignored too.
yelis300
Member
Understood, thanks for your time sir.