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Where Is the Ergopharm '08 1-AD Banter At?!

3clipseGT said:
Just as a FYI AMS has product analysis that he has posted on BB.com and the purity was like 98.7%.. I used 1-androsterone from months ago atleast 3 months ago and it was the bomb. PA is rediculously over priced. Does he put out quality products? Yea he does, but so does AMS and a bunch of other supplement companies.
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Good to know 3Clipse.
 
Juggernaut is shady as hell I agree. They had some funky brown stuff in their WinZtrol product awhile back. I'd never buy their products.
 
I find it hard to believe that the only 3 bottles that PA tested were messed up and that every bottle of 1-AD AMS has produced has been 100% spot on. Typically poor quality control comes in batches.


With that being said, AMS should have done a better job in terms of quality control for their product.
 
I agree ErgoPharm's prices are straight bullsh-t.

However I'd much rather pay a higher price for quality vs. cheap materials. Esp when it is something I'm putting in my body.



ALRI, Juggernaut Nutrition, and IBE are all shady, IMO.
 
ReaperX said:
I find it hard to believe that the only 3 bottles that PA tested were messed up and that every bottle of 1-AD AMS has produced has been 100% spot on. Typically poor quality control comes in batches.


With that being said, AMS should have done a better job in terms of quality control for their product.
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Yes sir...when Pat and I were eating lunch at the Arnold, he told me that it wasnt actually AMS problems, it was the raws they were getting werent right...Bottom line though is the buck has to stop with them.

holy
 
holyintellect said:
Yes sir...when Pat and I were eating lunch at the Arnold, he told me that it wasnt actually AMS problems, it was the raws they were getting werent right...Bottom line though is the buck has to stop with them.

holy
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That's like Ford telling GM that they have a defect in their car and need to recall it. AMS should be embarassed as there was no accountability on their part. It also too implies that they don't test their stuff or else they would have caught this.


I'm a pretty liberal person, however when a company starts have quality control issues on something that I am putting in my body, they lose me as a customer permanently.
 
ReaperX said:
Juggernaut is shady as hell I agree. They had some funky brown stuff in their WinZtrol product awhile back. I'd never buy their products.
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Horse $hit?

I actually had their Winztrol in my shop cart a few times because it's so much cheaper than any other. But I always got a strange, shady feeling everytime I seen the Juggernaut logo & canceled the order.
 
ReaperX said:
That's like Ford telling GM that they have a defect in their car and need to recall it. AMS should be embarassed as there was no accountability on their part. It also too implies that they don't test their stuff or else they would have caught this.


I'm a pretty liberal person, however when a company starts have quality control issues on something that I am putting in my body, they lose me as a customer permanently.
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I totally agree....but you know the sad thing is that when Pat tests something and he lets out the results, he gets **** on like he has another agenda....if the product had in it what it was supposed to there would never be an issue to begin with....

holy
 
Ziquor said:
Horse $hit?

I actually had their Winztrol in my shop cart a few times because it's so much cheaper than any other. But I always got a strange, shady feeling everytime I seen the Juggernaut logo & canceled the order.
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probably. I think the russians found recently that horse $hit is just as good as d-bol, just like they found edcysterone.


The Russians can make anything you want just as good as d-bol.


Here's the link for that shady Juggernaut WinZtrol.

Invalid Link Removed
 
PA is cool for bringing to light alot of sh1t that is going on in the industry but still i cant trust much of anything he says about another company i mean come on he is a competitor. WIth that said i think Ergo prices are ridiculious and PA seems to think all his supps are the best and fact is you can get the same quality and product elsewhere for half the price. I dont buy ergopharm anymore unless its deathly cheap. This 1AD crap.....who cares? not me.
 
1-AD is pretty damn expensive that's for sure.


I think the whole 11-OXO is too expensive as well. At least put 90 caps in the bottle, not 60.
 
ReaperX said:
probably. I think the russians found recently that horse $hit is just as good as d-bol, just like they found edcysterone.
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From looking over the studies they could be legit about the ECDY. Not as an oral but as an injectable. They never say how they administered the drug if my memory serves me correct. They just give a dose amount. As we all know ecdy half life is short as hell. As an injectable it would be very promising.
 
Distilled Water said:
From looking over the studies they could be legit about the ECDY. Not as an oral but as an injectable. They never say how they administered the drug if my memory serves me correct. They just give a dose amount. As we all know ecdy half life is short as hell. As an injectable it would be very promising.
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I agree. Ecdy from Rhaponticum Carthamoide extract definitely shows promise IMO, but extract from Cyanotis Vaga seems like garbage. In most of the Ecdy tests that yeilded good results an injection was given. If someone would make a more bioavailable form of Rhaponticum extract I'd be interested.
 
holyintellect said:
I think the stuff is pricey as well, but the fact remains that a lot of companies DO NOT put out the same quality products, hence the test results proving it....

holy
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There's definitely too many companies that put out garbage, but there's also many companies that are highly respectable as well. PA's obviously extremely intelligent but he's also a great marketer too.
 
Putting aside the bang-for-your-buck questions about Ergo vs. other similar-but-cheaper products, does anyone know if people are getting any bang at all from Ergo's new 1-AD?

Stuff has been out for a month now, seems like some talk should be surfacing somewhere, early customers would have been using for 4 weeks by now.
 
Dupont said:
does anyone know if people are getting any bang at all from Ergo's new 1-AD?
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Seriously

if anyone has experience with the new 1-AD or has heard from someone about it, I'd like to know.

Post in this thread and it's worth reps
 
Dupont said:
Putting aside the bang-for-your-buck questions about Ergo vs. other similar-but-cheaper products, does anyone know if people are getting any bang at all from Ergo's new 1-AD?

Stuff has been out for a month now, seems like some talk should be surfacing somewhere, early customers would have been using for 4 weeks by now.
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Kinda pathetic, bumping my own post, I know.

Just wanted this question to see the light of day one more time before I crawl back under my rock.
 
I have been using it, I started off with the 3 caps the first week. No noticeable sides or effects, I bumped up to 6 after 5 days then to 8 caps after 10 days. I am up 4 1/2 pounds. Feels like a lot of water weight. But I am stronger. I have added 15 pounds to my bench press and 25 to my squats. I am 5'9 and started at 185.
 
Thanks, Rory.

Reaper, hadn't thought about it that way, but it ties in with all the pricing talk earlier in this thread, you're probably right.

My first post above had been motivated by surprise and disbelief that any PA product would seem to be so ignored by the community, but Ergo may just be pricing itself out of the early market. If and when he releases it to the secondary retailers is when we'll begin to see more posts like Rory's, and by then these people will have been all the way through their cycles.
 
I just can't get over the fact that it is $80.00/bottle.

I mean even then that'd be alright if you only needed (1) bottle, but you need several bottles of it. Not exactly economical.
 
ReaperX said:
I just can't get over the fact that it is $80.00/bottle.

I mean even then that'd be alright if you only needed (1) bottle, but you need several bottles of it. Not exactly economical.
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You are right. This is the first PH cycle I have ever run. I researched this and other forums for a long time before I bought some h-drol, the day I ordered it I saw that they had released the new 1-ad and after seeing PA and some of the other Ergo board reps posts I decided to give this a shot. I figured if it was anything like the old 1-ad (that a few friends had used in the past) I would make some decent gains, if not chalk it up to experience.
 
One of my friends in the military has 1 bottle of the original 1-AD left. He used the original back in the day. I've been egging him on to buy this new stuff to see how it compares.

Since it is a 2 step conversion I'm interested if the amount in each capsule actually compensates for the losses.

The product is bilateral and constantly converting. I asked Patrick Arnold about this and he said something along the lines of how a 5 carbon ring works (keeps circling around).

Not really the most concise answer I was looking for.


I bought some 11-OXO that I plan on using. Not expecting much, but interested in the product.
 
I have noticed that I am not as sore the next day, I have been working much harder during workouts and shorter breaks between sets.
 
Mixed observations here:

Reaper, sort of agree with your thought that it would be nice if a more expensive product produced more dramatic gains.

Otoh, the "sound" of Rory's original post is that his report is after only 10 days of what will probably be a 4 week cycle.

On the other other hand, on rereading his post more closely and admittedly knitpicking the wording, I'm not sure if he is only 10 days in or if he only changed the dosing at 10 days but then went on using for sometime after that, and reported gains for this longer time frame?

If his gains are indeed from only 10 days, then the results after 4 weeks may be even better.



Editing here to add one more thought . . . . pretty sure the recommendation called for starting with 3 caps and increasing that to 6, but not eight . . . . that might be another thing to discuss if this thread keeps going?
 
CHAPS said:
I ordered some Epistane the other day i don't trust Juggernaut they look shady as hell.
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I cycled E-max by juggernaght 2 mths ago. It was excellent. The owner of NP highly recommended it and said he knew and trusted the owner. I bought it from NP and I trust their judgment.
 
I don't like to play the 'dose higher' game.

If the bottle says '3 caps' or whatever, then I'd prefer to see results @ 3 caps, not 6-8-10,etc.


I got a few bottles of 11-OXO since it is mainly for cortisol inhibition which is useful for cort. modulation from working, (like me).
 
Dupont said:
Mixed observations here:

Reaper, sort of agree with your thought that it would be nice if a more expensive product produced more dramatic gains.

Otoh, the "sound" of Rory's original post is that his report is after only 10 days of what will probably be a 4 week cycle.

On the other other hand, on rereading his post more closely and admittedly knitpicking the wording, I'm not sure if he is only 10 days in or if he only changed the dosing at 10 days but then went on using for sometime after that, and reported gains for this longer time frame?

If his gains are indeed from only 10 days, then the results after 4 weeks may be even better.



Editing here to add one more thought . . . . pretty sure the recommendation called for starting with 3 caps and increasing that to 6, but not eight . . . . that might be another thing to discuss if this thread keeps going?
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I am on day 18 as of today.
 
ReaperX said:
If the bottle says '3 caps' or whatever, then I'd prefer to see results @ 3 caps, not 6-8-10,etc.
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I agree. Some companies even make Maximum Strength Editions, and STILL tell buyers that dosing it higher is better and will WORK more. AX falls in to this situation, along Ergo.
 
My thinking is: If it takes more, put more in the ****in capsule. Instead, they just tell you to take more, and sell you more bottles.

Typical marketing.
 
ReaperX said:
My thinking is: If it takes more, put more in the ****in capsule. Instead, they just tell you to take more, and sell you more bottles.

Typical marketing.
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Some people respond to compounds in different ways, what works for some may not work for others. If a company keeps the dosage in single caps fairly low then you are able to adjust it accordingly. Look at H-drol, when gaspari put it out it came in 50 mg tabs, now the clones come in 25 mgs. That seems to be the sweet spot as I see many people run it at 50/75/75/100 you would not be able to do that unless you broke up a pill,tab,cap, etc.
 
Roryzilla said:
Some people respond to compounds in different ways, what works for some may not work for others. If a company keeps the dosage in single caps fairly low then you are able to adjust it accordingly. Look at H-drol, when gaspari put it out it came in 50 mg tabs, now the clones come in 25 mgs. That seems to be the sweet spot as I see many people run it at 50/75/75/100 you would not be able to do that unless you broke up a pill,tab,cap, etc.
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Hm. I suppose.......
 
1ad needed for most people atleast 400mgs at the very least to be even remotely effective. I ran it at 600 then at 900 and loved it.

I ran 1-androsterone at 400 then 600 then 800 and loved it as well. I think this coupled with 4-androsterone should be a good cycle. Probly around 8-10 lb gain in a 4-6 week cycle.
 
ReaperX said:
My thinking is: If it takes more, put more in the ****in capsule. Instead, they just tell you to take more, and sell you more bottles.

Typical marketing.
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I do not know if i would say marketing because if it doesn't work at 3 caps, you are going to have to ramp it up regardless (if in fact you want to keep running it and others have said they took 8-10 and got etc gains), but it's typical due to the "safer" dose.

Also, one can ramp it to where they feel the need rather than trying to figure out how much to subtract. It's always easier to ramp up than to figure out how much to take away ...

On the other hand, it's not cost effective to pack more mg per capsule for a larger dosing per pill but sell it for the same price. Prices would sky rocket, unless it's shady supps. Shi!'s already expensive enough.
 
Some more random thoughts, I am fully aware they may be as useless as they are unsolicited, but what the he!l it's a barely subtle form of bumping a thread that interests me:

The new 1-AD by PA is described as 1-androstene-3beta-ol-17-one in the product info and in another place as 1-androstenolone, and I did make sure I got the spelling exactly right and the dashes in the right places. This is a little different in spelling than some other pretty similarly spelled compounds in this thread, my ( lack of) knowledge is such that I don't know how significant or insignificant that may be, as in wildly different PH's, different-but-similar PH's, or identical PH's.

The caps = 100mg each, and that's the only ingredient other than fillers.

Recommendation is to begin cycle with 3 caps ed and proceed to 6 ed, with the added note to not exceed 6, so, 300-600mg ed, nothing over. Never quite understood why this and many other PH's recommended this intro dosing, why not just jump in with whatever the full dose is for that product? Guess it would be a built in safety net for observing how it affects you, but it also might waste time and product on a useless week?

Also don't understand why this and, not all but many, other PH's make no allowance for bodyweight in their dosing recommendations. How can a recommended probable daily dose be right for a 160lb AND a 240lb customer?

Rory, lotsa good points here from different folks, but yours about smaller dosed caps giving us more flexibility in self dosing is spot on. It may indeed be a marketing ploy from the chemist, may yield him greater profit, may be a tad more inconvenient at the swallowing end, but I'm glad for the ability to fine tune my doses without having to break something in half. When I was briefly on the dark side yet another thing I never understood was why someone would buy 50mg Dbol tabs when 5's or 10's allowed so much more dosing flexibility, or why Drol rarely came out in sizes under 50mg at all, liquid suspensions the obvious exception.
 
That's probably part of the variance in dosing is due to bodyweight.

Ideally, the perfect scenario is to use the minimal amount needed while getting maximum benefits. In the bodybuilding world, this is a trite concept as virtually all bb'ers think more=better.


The dosing brackets is probably for the individual to choose and also for safety reasons. 11-OXO also has a 3-6 cap range as well.



The serving size, if you will, is probably based off distributor requirements.

I think Patrick Arnold mentioned that 11-OXO came out in 60 cap bottles due to having a substantial amount of orders to make it worthwhile for them. If that's true, I have no idea.
 
At any rate, I'm going to use 3 bottles of 11-OXO @ 6 caps/ED so that's a month's supply for me.

I've heard mixed feedback, so we'll see.
 
Recommendation is to begin cycle with 3 caps ed and proceed to 6 ed, with the added note to not exceed 6, so, 300-600mg ed, nothing over. Never quite understood why this and many other PH's recommended this intro dosing, why not just jump in with whatever the full dose is for that product? Guess it would be a built in safety net for observing how it affects you, but it also might waste time and product on a useless week?

Also don't understand why this and, not all but many, other PH's make no allowance for bodyweight in their dosing recommendations. How can a recommended probable daily dose be right for a 160lb AND a 240lb customer?
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The first portion of the question here, deals with safety. Reaper has it dead on with the safety issue. I would not want to jump to a dosage that is overkill, if I can get great results from lower dosages. Also, the variance is usually a minimum and maximum variance. It is supposed to be the least dosage that will render results and the max dosage that still renders results but without going into the danger zone, plus, heavier guy's(guess with more muscle mass) can probably get better benefits from the max dosage. However, there is a limit to what the return/waste ratio is.

I would not want to waste viable pills if the return is not going to be much of anything, you know?

Kinda like m1t. When i ran it, yeeeears ago, I got great benefits from 1tab a day, but then I ran it about 8 months later and got good benefits from a half a tab ed. I thought, damn, I could have just ran half a tab and saved more m1t for future cycles...of course, this is before I knew it was like rat poison but that's besides the point.
 
The whole price issue with proh/ds/precurs/ and what not really does not bother me. Im fortunate enough to have incomes from work and from a business that I run, so i always have extra scratch to throw around.

That being said, I do not want to just waste my money, but if 1-ad is actually worth it, i would purchase it even at 80bucks per run due to the fact that the money issue would not be a viable problem, but I want to know that it actually works...

If there is something that renders better/cleaner or the same results, say PRIME, then I'd rather take PRIME.

From the looks of things, I do not think it was a hit (1-ad). By now, I know we would have heard more from it. I've ran searches and come up with a few things, but nothing notable.
 
At the end of the day, I don't think there is going to be anything out there that is cheaper/safer/delivers better results than good ol' injectible test.
 
ReaperX said:
At the end of the day, I don't think there is going to be anything out there that is cheaper/safer/delivers better results than good ol' injectible test.
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Agreed, but it and its cousins got a lot riskier to mess with after Raw Deal unless one is pretty well connected, and I ain't.
 
last i checked Superdrol was 22$ at Nutraplanet and that's 2.5 cycles worth

even testosterone can't compete with that, i can have as much of it as i want at my door in a couple days, pay with CC, all legal, no vials no syringes, no worries...
 
I wonder what ever happened to the PA+Bkneller+Bill llewelyn peace treaty. They were supposed to come together and make all these mega supps, but nothing ever materialized.

EDIT: Never mind, I just googled it. I guess illegal firearms and underground labs don't quite fly with the feds.
 
hardknock said:
I wonder what ever happened to the PA+Bkneller+Bill llewelyn peace treaty. They were supposed to come together and make all these mega supps, but nothing ever materialized.

EDIT: Never mind, I just googled it. I guess illegal firearms and underground labs don't quite fly with the feds.
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BK should be getting out soon. He went to jail early last year. I think he only got something like two years, so maybe in the Spring.
 
Even if these guys do bond for the good of supplements I don't see much in terms of hormonals being released seeing as what they've been through. That and the new FDA regulations which are planned to come into play in '09.
 
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