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What Would You Add/Remove

Ape McGrapes

Ape McGrapes

Well-known member
I've come to the conclusion that the most effective, beneficial supplementation is Pre/Intra/Post. I've gotten better results this way than almost any stack I've run. Most of these are staples I will not come off of, and most I have been running for over a year.

Pre
D-Ribose - 5G
Creatine HCL - 3G
Betaine anhydrous - 2.5G
Creatine-O-Phosphate - 2.5G
Phosphatidic Acid(lecethin) - 2.4G
Beta-alanine - 2G
Citrulline Malate - 2G
Leucine - 2G
Agmatine - 1G

Intra
PeptoPro - 12G
Gatorade powder - 1 scoop

Post
Whey Isolate - 25G
Carb powder(Waxy maize, dextrose, potato starch, carbogen, banaba leaf powder) - 41G

What would you add/change/Remove from all this?
 
I would bump the Citrulline dose, and add Amentoflavone pre, personally.
 
Creatine - anytime, 3g on workout days
Beta Alanine - anytime, 3.2g
Agmatine - dose as you see fit
Citrulline Malate - 6g+
Leucine - 5g
COP - 1.5g +

I'd add any of these: nitrates, amento, betaine, taurine
Your post workout reeks of broscience. And i think peptopro is a waste of money.

K den.
 
Rhadam said:
Creatine - anytime, 3g on workout days
Beta Alanine - anytime, 3.2g
Agmatine - dose as you see fit
Citrulline Malate - 6g+
Leucine - 5g
COP - 1.5g +

I'd add any of these: nitrates, amento, betaine, taurine
Your post workout reeks of broscience. And i think peptopro is a waste of money.

K den.
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Already has 2.5g of Betaine:

Betaine anhydrous - 2.5G
 
PeptoPro> BCAA's IMO

The PWO carbs come premixed from a smaller bulk supplier I use. What is wrong with Protein/Carbs post workout that make it reek of broscience?

Can Amento be run year around or cycled? As I didn't add anything that I cycle in occasionally, like Ara, that can be used pre.
 
Ape McGrapes said:
PeptoPro> BCAA's IMO

The PWO carbs come premixed from a smaller bulk supplier I use. What is wrong with Protein/Carbs post workout that make it reek of broscience?

Can Amento be run year around or cycled? As I didn't add anything that I cycle in occasionally, like Ara, that can be used pre.
Click to expand...


Check this:
In this video from the NSCA's 2014 National Conference, Brad Schoenfeld and Alan Aragon discuss the evidence behind nutrient timing and exercise, focusing specifically on protein, amino acids and carbohydrate.

Invalid Link Removed

When are Carbs and Protein VERY Important Post-workout?

Carbs:
- During leg Training + HIIT Cardio or doing a 2-3 hour intense workout session

Protein:

-Resistance Training in a fasted state (no meal consumed at least 3-4 hours prior)

When are Carbs and Protein of lesser importance Post-workout?

Carbs:
- 1-2 hour training session after a pre-workout meal (Small or mixed 2-3 hours prior to session)

Protein:
- Training after a meal composed of 20-40g Protein at least 1-2 hours prior to a workout in a fed state.

Overall Cliffs:

- Nutrient Timing can be beneficial but window of opportunity is not as big as believed
- Provided protein rich meal 3-4 hours prior to training, there is no stress about immediate post-workout protein supplement or meal
- Consume .4-.5g/kg of LBM in a pre/post workout exercise window spaced 4-6 hours depending on meal size.
- Post workout carb intake does not meaningful increase aabolicsm unless doing a 2 a day workout session involving same muscle groups. Glycogen is not a limting factor if you can consume enough Carbohydrates daily in the 24 hour period.
 
Rhadam said:
Creatine - anytime, 3g on workout days
Beta Alanine - anytime, 3.2g
Agmatine - dose as you see fit
Citrulline Malate - 6g+
Leucine - 5g
COP - 1.5g +

I'd add any of these: nitrates, amento, betaine, taurine
Your post workout reeks of broscience. And i think peptopro is a waste of money.

K den.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with this. Citrulline malate i use to does at 8g and agmatine at 2g and beta alanine at 3.2g. And for intra i would just grab a good amino acid drink rather than peptopro. You could check out this page at Strong Supplement Shop for more options. Invalid Link Removed
Are these your only supplements you taking right now?
 
just looking at the prewo schedule, i would personally increase citmal to 6gm (or switch to 3gm l-cit), prolly bump beta ala to 4-5gm and split dose it, and drop PA/lecithin to 3tbsp (or 1800mg PA), and Id dose the creatine away from agmatine
 
NewAgeMayan said:
just looking at the prewo schedule, i would personally increase citmal to 6gm (or switch to 3gm l-cit), prolly bump beta ala to 4-5gm and split dose it, and drop PA/lecithin to 3tbsp (or 1800mg PA), and Id dose the creatine away from agmatine
Click to expand...
and why dose creatine away from the Agmatine?
 
NewAgeMayan said:
just looking at the prewo schedule, i would personally increase citmal to 6gm (or switch to 3gm l-cit), prolly bump beta ala to 4-5gm and split dose it, and drop PA/lecithin to 3tbsp (or 1800mg PA), and Id dose the creatine away from agmatine
Click to expand...
never mind I found my answer. But other interactions listed were citrulline, yohimbine, and DAA and I've seen plenty of effective formulas that combine at least one of these with Agmatine
 
mr.cooper69 said:
We also know 10g d-ribose does nothing for performance, so 5g will of course do nothing
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We went over this once. It's however, already in the preworkout mix that I use, so I thought it well to mention.
 
The Solution said:
Check this
Click to expand...
I'm going to watch the video when I'm off my phone and on wifi, since it's 38m long.

I Carb Backload so the idea of using the carb powder PWO, I believe came from Kiefer in his book. 30 minutes later I consume the rest of my carbs all in one meal.
 
Ape McGrapes said:
I'm going to watch the video when I'm off my phone and on wifi, since it's 38m long.

I Carb Backload so the idea of using the carb powder PWO, I believe came from Kiefer in his book. 30 minutes later I consume the rest of my carbs all in one meal.
Click to expand...

No need to watch the videos i gave you the cliffs :)
 
I thought of switching to HBCD intra instead of the Gatorade powder, but I'm not too educated on the subject and don't seem to have any issues with the Gatorade. If I wasn't bulking I would drop intra carbs all together.


No one will convince me to switch to BCAA's over Pepto. I bought a tub of Amino IV upon release, it just wasn't the same.

I can get 100G Citrulline Malate for $8.00. Worth the additional investment?
 
Ape McGrapes said:
I've come to the conclusion that the most effective, beneficial supplementation is Pre/Intra/Post. I've gotten better results this way than almost any stack I've run. Most of these are staples I will not come off of, and most I have been running for over a year.

Pre
D-Ribose - 5G NOT NEEDED
Creatine HCL - 3G ONLY USE HCL IF YOU HAVE A SENSITIVE STOMACH
Betaine anhydrous - 2.5G PLAY AROUND WITH THIS DOSE
Creatine-O-Phosphate - 2.5G NOT NEEDED -MAY BE BENEFICIAL BUT THERE IS SO MUCH HERE YOU WON'T NOTICE IT DOING ANYTHING
Phosphatidic Acid(lecethin) - 2.4G
Beta-alanine - 2G NEED 3.2GRAMS AND LOADED WITH CARBS TO INCREASE CARNOSINE LEVELS
Citrulline Malate - 2G USE CITRULLINE AND UP TO 6
Leucine - 2G USE 6-10
Agmatine - 1G

Intra
PeptoPro - 12G
Gatorade powder - 1 scoop

Post
Whey Isolate - 25G
Carb powder(Waxy maize, dextrose, potato starch, carbogen, banaba leaf powder) - 41G JUST EAT A POTATO

What would you add/change/Remove from all this?
Click to expand...

See my changes. Sorry for the caps. I'm not yelling, I just thought it would be easier to see it that way lol.

I'd save some money with the changes I outlined and instead use that money for a good recovery supplement like Iron Forged Nutrition's Most Wanted. It has Ecdy + Laxo in a cyclodextrin delivery system. Seriously, DOMS will be a thing of the past. Pair this with a good hypertrophy program like GVT or Vince Gironda's 8x8 and you're in gainzville.
 
Might want to rethink that leucine pre workout

L-Leucine and NO-mediated cardiovascular function.
Yang Y1, Wu Z, Meininger CJ, Wu G.
Author information
Abstract
Reduced availability of nitric oxide (NO) in the vasculature is a major factor contributing to the impaired action of insulin on blood flow and, therefore, insulin resistance in obese and diabetic subjects. Available evidence shows that vascular insulin resistance plays an important role in the pathogenesis of cardiovascular disease, the leading cause of death in developed nations. Interestingly, increased concentrations of L-leucine in the plasma occur in obese humans and other animals with vascular dysfunction. Among branched-chain amino acids, L-leucine is unique in inhibiting NO synthesis from L-arginine in endothelial cells and may modulate cardiovascular homeostasis in insulin resistance Results of recent studies indicate that L-leucine is an activator of glutamine:fructose-6-phosphate aminotransferase (GFAT), which is the first and a rate-controlling enzyme in the synthesis of glucosamine (an inhibitor of endothelial NO synthesis). Through stimulating the mammalian target of rapamycin signaling pathway and thus protein synthesis, L-leucine may enhance GFAT protein expression, thereby inhibiting NO synthesis in endothelial cells. We propose that reducing circulating levels of L-leucine or endothelial GFAT activity may provide a potentially novel strategy for preventing and/or treating cardiovascular disease in obese and diabetic subjects. Such means may include dietary supplementation with either α-ketoglutarate to enhance the catabolism of L-leucine in the small intestine and other tissues or with N-ethyl-L-glutamine to inhibit GFAT activity in endothelial cells. Preventing leucine-induced activation of GFAT by nutritional supplements or pharmaceutical drugs may contribute to improved cardiovascular function by enhancing vascular NO synthesis.
PMID: 25552397 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
 
wonder what the most over the top pre workout stack would be lol i can think of one


2g ArA + 3g LCLT (Carnipure)
3g Betaine Anhydrous (Komodo TMG)
4g Extra L-Citrulline (Infinite Labs Bulk)
2.5g C.O.P (Primaforce)
+
Nerve Restore
1 Scoop High Volume
2 Caps AmentoMax
4 Caps CistaMax
1 Scoop Beast Creature
MyoSynergy + ABE
Stims of choice (For me DS Frenzy or Alphamine)
+
Amino IV, Intra.
 
Auslifter, great combo. But I would drop the Citrulline (HV has it) and up to 2 scoops of HV.
I would also add 1 scoop of APE + 3.2g of Beta Alanine and 2 caps of Uncut
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Right. The issue with obese people is that leucine is elevated in the blood 24 hours a day. If you're just bolusing leucine preworkout, you're fine
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Is there any benefit to just leucine pre workout in the absence of the other bccas? More so would putting leucine elsewhere in the periworkout period have more impact?
 
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