The Paper Route
Member
1, 6, and 5 3rd
Voting On New Products
- Thread starter Author L. Rea
- Start date
french_muscle
Member
1,5,6
Outside Backer
Well-known member
tren var and 3rd primo
iwannagetbig
Board Supporter
1, 3.... (6) 
BKneller
Banned
The haters will never keep us down!
Obviously, they will be tested by 3-4 guys (each one we elect to follow up on) before we release them.
It would be foolish to release anything without testing it. It might be a real dog of a product or worse, it might be very toxic and hurt someone. Neither Author or I want a doggish product or something that is dangerous.
As for the folks at bb.com, they are more than entitled to their opinions. Of course, the lad mentioned isn't doing anything innovative these days except ripping off Author and my ideas but that is besides the point.
To be innovative means you have to take risks, chances. Yeah, maybe some of the androstanes might not be that great if C4 hydroxylated. But if we don't try it, how do we know we are not missing out on the next "big thing"? You have to try.
At least give us credit for that. Author and I are working very hard to explore new possibilities that are not illegal so you guys can benefit from it (and lets be honest, we benefit too in the form of sales).
But you have to take that "first step" and try. If you are unwilling to do that, you should stay out of this business IMHO.
Time waits for no man. Not even that certain someone mouthing off over at bb.com about how utterly stupid Author and I happen to be.
I guess all the people buying Prostanozolol and Orastan-E must be seeing a placebo effect, right?
It's like this...first "they" bashed me for selling ATD, saying it was not naturally occuring (it is). Then "they" said it was not DSHEA compliant because it is not found in food (turns out they're wrong again)....then I don't have data on it (so we conducted a study published at ISSN showing NovXT kicks ass). They also argued themselves into saying 3-OHAT is useless (its not but that is not the point, we use a 3-ether analog and a study on Medline validates that the ether and ester analogs of 3-OHAT at C-3 are just as potent in some cases as Formestane is...not too shabby - but 'they' overlook this).
Only Author has the insight, intellect and ability to see what I was trying to do with this product which is why I respect him so much (rather than jump on the bash me bandwagon, he took a rationale and scientific approach and tried to see where I was going with this and then he saw...he liked what he saw...and then you have ULTRA H.O.T.).
Ironic now that "they" are cloning ATD and trying to compress the market. But, the study was not done on ATD alone. So if you expect to get results like the study, you need to use NovXT or Ultra H.O.T. which has ALL the components used in this study and another long term study with ~20 subjects being done at Baylor in Texas).
ATD is just one part of the equation. Yeah it works...but not as well as the combination does.
And yes, the 'evidence' for this will be made public once it it published (hint).
"they" think they're slick and smart. But 'they' have not come out with anything worth taking of their own innovation (IMHO) in a very long time. One trick pony show.
I like the fact that Author can see beyond the box and wants to try new and exciting things. Will they all be great compounds?
No way! I am sure 75% will suck. But even if we get 1 out of 4 that rocks...it's still worth pushing ahead.
You can be a part of the problem and just sit back, play armchair QB, criticized in hindsight or you can be part of the solution and try to make products that really work.
I mean, isn't everyone sick of useless **** like velvet deer antler and boron?
Thanks Author, thanks for working with me and thanks for inviting me here so we can intelligently discuss what we are doing and why.
BK
Obviously, they will be tested by 3-4 guys (each one we elect to follow up on) before we release them.
It would be foolish to release anything without testing it. It might be a real dog of a product or worse, it might be very toxic and hurt someone. Neither Author or I want a doggish product or something that is dangerous.
As for the folks at bb.com, they are more than entitled to their opinions. Of course, the lad mentioned isn't doing anything innovative these days except ripping off Author and my ideas but that is besides the point.
To be innovative means you have to take risks, chances. Yeah, maybe some of the androstanes might not be that great if C4 hydroxylated. But if we don't try it, how do we know we are not missing out on the next "big thing"? You have to try.
At least give us credit for that. Author and I are working very hard to explore new possibilities that are not illegal so you guys can benefit from it (and lets be honest, we benefit too in the form of sales).
But you have to take that "first step" and try. If you are unwilling to do that, you should stay out of this business IMHO.
Time waits for no man. Not even that certain someone mouthing off over at bb.com about how utterly stupid Author and I happen to be.
I guess all the people buying Prostanozolol and Orastan-E must be seeing a placebo effect, right?
It's like this...first "they" bashed me for selling ATD, saying it was not naturally occuring (it is). Then "they" said it was not DSHEA compliant because it is not found in food (turns out they're wrong again)....then I don't have data on it (so we conducted a study published at ISSN showing NovXT kicks ass). They also argued themselves into saying 3-OHAT is useless (its not but that is not the point, we use a 3-ether analog and a study on Medline validates that the ether and ester analogs of 3-OHAT at C-3 are just as potent in some cases as Formestane is...not too shabby - but 'they' overlook this).
Only Author has the insight, intellect and ability to see what I was trying to do with this product which is why I respect him so much (rather than jump on the bash me bandwagon, he took a rationale and scientific approach and tried to see where I was going with this and then he saw...he liked what he saw...and then you have ULTRA H.O.T.).
Ironic now that "they" are cloning ATD and trying to compress the market. But, the study was not done on ATD alone. So if you expect to get results like the study, you need to use NovXT or Ultra H.O.T. which has ALL the components used in this study and another long term study with ~20 subjects being done at Baylor in Texas).
ATD is just one part of the equation. Yeah it works...but not as well as the combination does.
And yes, the 'evidence' for this will be made public once it it published (hint).
"they" think they're slick and smart. But 'they' have not come out with anything worth taking of their own innovation (IMHO) in a very long time. One trick pony show.
I like the fact that Author can see beyond the box and wants to try new and exciting things. Will they all be great compounds?
No way! I am sure 75% will suck. But even if we get 1 out of 4 that rocks...it's still worth pushing ahead.
You can be a part of the problem and just sit back, play armchair QB, criticized in hindsight or you can be part of the solution and try to make products that really work.
I mean, isn't everyone sick of useless **** like velvet deer antler and boron?
Thanks Author, thanks for working with me and thanks for inviting me here so we can intelligently discuss what we are doing and why.
BK
cpa5oh said:
BKneller
Banned
Envy. I pity him. I mean, he has to resort to bashing me then ripping off my product
(ATD) because he really has nothing left to offer. Oh wait, he put everything and the kitchen
sink into a can and added some Vitargo (Nutrex has been selling Vitargo and Creatine for years
now).
Yep, that guy is really innovative.
Maybe if he spent less time bashing me and Author and more time in R&D he would not be
forced to launch a second company that rips off the work of others.
FTR - I have a patent pending on ATD. When it is issued, I will litigate against that company
the next day for sure.
Lets say I now have some friends with deep pockets who do not appreciate what he is doing.
Then again, I could put "extract of oil of Geranium" in a product and there is little he can to about it
right?
Anyone who would consume a product without knowing what is in it has rocks in their head.
Also, you can't 'self test' your own product. It has to be tested by an independent third party (or it should
be) to really be valid. The temptation to lie and not test is too great when a company self tests.
I am not saying this is the case with any company but I am telling you that Gaspari Nutrition is in the process
of posting HPLC results for the current lot of Orastan-E on our website and we will do so for all lots and
proto-steroids we do. Unlike other companies, our lab tests are conducted by independent third parties not
affiliated with us so the temptation to "fudge" is not there.
Anyone with MS Word or Photoshop can make up a "lab test" and post it. The truth is when a tel# is posted where
a consumer can call and get independent results.
BK
(ATD) because he really has nothing left to offer. Oh wait, he put everything and the kitchen
sink into a can and added some Vitargo (Nutrex has been selling Vitargo and Creatine for years
now).
Yep, that guy is really innovative.
Maybe if he spent less time bashing me and Author and more time in R&D he would not be
forced to launch a second company that rips off the work of others.
FTR - I have a patent pending on ATD. When it is issued, I will litigate against that company
the next day for sure.
Lets say I now have some friends with deep pockets who do not appreciate what he is doing.
Then again, I could put "extract of oil of Geranium" in a product and there is little he can to about it
right?
Anyone who would consume a product without knowing what is in it has rocks in their head.
Also, you can't 'self test' your own product. It has to be tested by an independent third party (or it should
be) to really be valid. The temptation to lie and not test is too great when a company self tests.
I am not saying this is the case with any company but I am telling you that Gaspari Nutrition is in the process
of posting HPLC results for the current lot of Orastan-E on our website and we will do so for all lots and
proto-steroids we do. Unlike other companies, our lab tests are conducted by independent third parties not
affiliated with us so the temptation to "fudge" is not there.
Anyone with MS Word or Photoshop can make up a "lab test" and post it. The truth is when a tel# is posted where
a consumer can call and get independent results.
BK
TheOMEGA said:
BKneller
Banned
You know...I'm not going to sit here and bash him because that is not why Bobo and Author asked me to come on board.
Hey, I am not claiming to be a degreed chemist - I am just a guy who has a little knowledge and a passing interest in this and I feel that it's an opportunity for me to use my knowledge and interests to come out with some cool, effective and safe products.
I won't speak for Author, I really don't know what he considers himself or how he views himself.
But what I do know is it is incredibly easy to sit back and just bash and criticize without doing anything of any real use or value yourself.
It's easy to speculate and say, "well this compound you're exploring sucks or that compound won't work" - the truth is you don't really know what will work and what will not work until you actually make the stuff and try it out. Opinions are like assholes...
That's all Author and I decided to do. Come up with a few ideas that had never really been done before and get some samples made and try the stuff out.
I fail to see what the big brouhahah is over "there". If they don't like what we are doing, fine, they have that right, they should just forget about what we are doing and concentrate on what they are doing themselves (or in some cases "not doing").
You don't see Author or myself over there (or here) bashing their stuff no matter what our opinions are of it (good or bad).
It's because Author and I really don't give a damned what they do with their business as long as they stay out of our business and out of our way.
Maybe they will be correct, maybe some of the compounds will suck badly. So what? That means we should not try them out?
I like working with Author and we talk 2-3 times per week by telephone for a few hours at a time now. We bounce ideas off each other and discuss what we'd like to see for an end result and what the best way to get there is.
So far, we think the hydroxyl mod at C-4 sounds like a good thing (irrespective of whether there is a DB across C4-C5).
We might be wrong. So what? Then we wasted some of our time and money.
But what if we are correct and even one of these products really rock and is the "next M1T"? Then we stumbled on something that is really cool and will make a lot of folks quite happy, right?
I'm also getting tired of the chicken little's over there saying how the sky is falling and we're just so evil for selling or in this case, merely discussing the possibility of selling, stuff of a hormonal nature that is not illegal.
A philosophical question (rhetorical) to these doomsayers - what's the worst that is going to happen? So of they rewrite the Anabolic Control Act again big deal? If we never brought any of these compounds to market, it might as well be the same the big brother rewriting the act again because the effect is the same: you don't get to see the products period.
This way, we might have a window of a year or two to sell more of these to people. I'll take a year or two of increased liberties to put what I want into my own body over the alternative of never having that choice to begin with.
And who knows? Anyone catch the HBO special with John Romano? That was awesome, really awesome. Maybe with a few more realistic, objective TV specials like that and the tide (and opinion) might turn a bit or at least the paranoia will subside.
It's not like they're going to take away your beloved whey protein, creatine or useless stuff like boron and smilax anyhow so why do these guys care what Author and I do? Reason: because they don't have the balls to sell this stuff because they're afraid so they'll created a state of panic that we're "ruining" the industry because if they can't (or in this case 'won't') sell it then we should not either. Sorry, I am not a follower and neither is Author (that much I am 100% sure of).
The bottom line is you make progress by trying new things out. That is how science works.
Who wants to bet me that the haters end up cloning anything useful here that Author and I come up with and test and validate as "kick ass good ****'? They'll bash up continually (as usual) right up until they get their raw materials in the states and into capsule so they can sell it and then mysteriously they stuff will become 'good chemicals' and neither Author nor I will receive an apology.
Ignore them. Let them stand on the sidelines while Author and I exploit the heck out of the C4 -OH steroidals. You lead by doing, not pointing fingers and speculating.
As long as they stay out of our way, good luck and good riddance to the lot of them is what I say. It's not like anyone is going to force them to purchase our stuff anyhow.
And one last thing. Qing Hua is a very competitive university in Beijing but Peking University is more prestigious for hard sciences. And like it or not, Author and I have locked up Dr. Zhuun to work for us exclusively, he is on retainer at a very handsome salary paid by us for the next 16 months. This guy can make stuff for a lot less money than you'd think, he is very innovative, clever...and seems to be able to get fantastic yield rates on stuff (or at least better than most of the Chinese companies).
Now who wants to discuss new supplements and forget about the haters bashing Author and myself?
BWK
Hey, I am not claiming to be a degreed chemist - I am just a guy who has a little knowledge and a passing interest in this and I feel that it's an opportunity for me to use my knowledge and interests to come out with some cool, effective and safe products.
I won't speak for Author, I really don't know what he considers himself or how he views himself.
But what I do know is it is incredibly easy to sit back and just bash and criticize without doing anything of any real use or value yourself.
It's easy to speculate and say, "well this compound you're exploring sucks or that compound won't work" - the truth is you don't really know what will work and what will not work until you actually make the stuff and try it out. Opinions are like assholes...
That's all Author and I decided to do. Come up with a few ideas that had never really been done before and get some samples made and try the stuff out.
I fail to see what the big brouhahah is over "there". If they don't like what we are doing, fine, they have that right, they should just forget about what we are doing and concentrate on what they are doing themselves (or in some cases "not doing").
You don't see Author or myself over there (or here) bashing their stuff no matter what our opinions are of it (good or bad).
It's because Author and I really don't give a damned what they do with their business as long as they stay out of our business and out of our way.
Maybe they will be correct, maybe some of the compounds will suck badly. So what? That means we should not try them out?
I like working with Author and we talk 2-3 times per week by telephone for a few hours at a time now. We bounce ideas off each other and discuss what we'd like to see for an end result and what the best way to get there is.
So far, we think the hydroxyl mod at C-4 sounds like a good thing (irrespective of whether there is a DB across C4-C5).
We might be wrong. So what? Then we wasted some of our time and money.
But what if we are correct and even one of these products really rock and is the "next M1T"? Then we stumbled on something that is really cool and will make a lot of folks quite happy, right?
I'm also getting tired of the chicken little's over there saying how the sky is falling and we're just so evil for selling or in this case, merely discussing the possibility of selling, stuff of a hormonal nature that is not illegal.
A philosophical question (rhetorical) to these doomsayers - what's the worst that is going to happen? So of they rewrite the Anabolic Control Act again big deal? If we never brought any of these compounds to market, it might as well be the same the big brother rewriting the act again because the effect is the same: you don't get to see the products period.
This way, we might have a window of a year or two to sell more of these to people. I'll take a year or two of increased liberties to put what I want into my own body over the alternative of never having that choice to begin with.
And who knows? Anyone catch the HBO special with John Romano? That was awesome, really awesome. Maybe with a few more realistic, objective TV specials like that and the tide (and opinion) might turn a bit or at least the paranoia will subside.
It's not like they're going to take away your beloved whey protein, creatine or useless stuff like boron and smilax anyhow so why do these guys care what Author and I do? Reason: because they don't have the balls to sell this stuff because they're afraid so they'll created a state of panic that we're "ruining" the industry because if they can't (or in this case 'won't') sell it then we should not either. Sorry, I am not a follower and neither is Author (that much I am 100% sure of).
The bottom line is you make progress by trying new things out. That is how science works.
Who wants to bet me that the haters end up cloning anything useful here that Author and I come up with and test and validate as "kick ass good ****'? They'll bash up continually (as usual) right up until they get their raw materials in the states and into capsule so they can sell it and then mysteriously they stuff will become 'good chemicals' and neither Author nor I will receive an apology.
Ignore them. Let them stand on the sidelines while Author and I exploit the heck out of the C4 -OH steroidals. You lead by doing, not pointing fingers and speculating.
As long as they stay out of our way, good luck and good riddance to the lot of them is what I say. It's not like anyone is going to force them to purchase our stuff anyhow.
And one last thing. Qing Hua is a very competitive university in Beijing but Peking University is more prestigious for hard sciences. And like it or not, Author and I have locked up Dr. Zhuun to work for us exclusively, he is on retainer at a very handsome salary paid by us for the next 16 months. This guy can make stuff for a lot less money than you'd think, he is very innovative, clever...and seems to be able to get fantastic yield rates on stuff (or at least better than most of the Chinese companies).
Now who wants to discuss new supplements and forget about the haters bashing Author and myself?
BWK
TheOMEGA said:
TheOMEGA
Board Supporter
oh pretty good.size said:Fine, thank you. How are you?
Thank you.
I have been reading the thread at BB.com
and am impressed with your honesty and how your engaging PA
I am kinda dissaponted in him
BK:
I don't think your "bashing"
just pointing out inconsistency, and maybe a bit of misleading....
nice to meet you
BKneller
Banned
Matt Cahill is toast! I am going to litigate against DS too. I'm not going into specifics but lets just say I have a
better than average case against him IMHO (as well as the other cloners).
So yeah, I plan to sue Designer Supps for selling ATD if they are still selling it after my application for ATD is published
by the USPTO.
Sorry, I never violated the 4-AD patent or anyone else's. I respected people's IP. I only ask for the same.
The parasites need to be hit with the pesticide so to speak.
BK
better than average case against him IMHO (as well as the other cloners).
So yeah, I plan to sue Designer Supps for selling ATD if they are still selling it after my application for ATD is published
by the USPTO.
Sorry, I never violated the 4-AD patent or anyone else's. I respected people's IP. I only ask for the same.
The parasites need to be hit with the pesticide so to speak.
BK
dbish77 said:
Ghosting
Guest
BKneller said:
After seeing Dios pre and 2 week post work on KS "Attack", going from over 300 to 1000. In 2 weeks!! I was impressed with the 3-OHAT and ATD combo. What I cant understand is why 6-OXO lives on after that. People must not understand or they are just brainwashed. I like PA too, so I am not attacking him, but this is clearly a superior AI. By far......Ghosting
Guest
If he designed it, why will he probably not get the patent?Yagman said:
Ghosting
Guest
If you are talking about PA, he was only responding to the attacks on his and ALR's products not working.Yagman said:
Author L. Rea
Board Sponsor
It seems that the first analog we will be focusing on is 4,17b-diydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one. Not that some of the others do not hold interest both from a research and potential point, but simply because we have already moved so far ahead on this one and one other...but the vote is in.
Thank you lads. I appreciate your time and interests.
And Bruce, thank you for sharing yours with us!
I see this as a THP ether. Thoughts?
Thank you lads. I appreciate your time and interests.
And Bruce, thank you for sharing yours with us!
I see this as a THP ether. Thoughts?
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
BKneller said:
Hey Bruce,
Its very simple. If you want to remain here you don't bash a sponsor. I'm not going to put up with it. THis is your last warning. Quit the BS or you will be gone just like PA. Time to keep you business to yourself. Let this be the last time we have any problems.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
TheOMEGA said:
The funny part is watching the sheep actually believe every word he says.
Then I am the devil because one thread out of 24,000 is missing. Now all of a sudden we screen everything and ban people right and left.
We all lie and hide everything. I mean I have so much to lose since I am SO large in this industry and have so many products to protect.
Oh I forgot, I dont' sell a product, yet people will believe someone trying to sell you spray dried bovine whatever over someone who has zero financial interest in the industry.
Sheep.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
Why? So I can have another supplement company owner go to another board and claim I lied and banned him for no reason?
I would say in about a month someone is going to claim I was on the grassy knoll.
I already see dtrain popping off at the mouth claiming I would ban someone outright. Funny how all these people say they love the board, they see my point of view but the first new opportunity arrives they pop off at the mouth again.
I would say in about a month someone is going to claim I was on the grassy knoll.
I already see dtrain popping off at the mouth claiming I would ban someone outright. Funny how all these people say they love the board, they see my point of view but the first new opportunity arrives they pop off at the mouth again.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
Matthew D said:
Invalid Link Removed
Have fun Matt. We are all evil over here and lie to protect are vast empire, although you already know this.
:lol: