Virile Mane - Hair anyone?

Updated pics...looks like another round of new growth coming in (again, easy to spot the hairs that are 1/8" long).

Also posted a pulled out shot from each side for perspective...

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The peaks of the recede are starting to fill in enough to "round" may hairline, which is contributing to an overall perception of restored hairline. Once the new growth there becomes longer, I will be very pleased.
 
dsade said:
And just ignore the miserable side effects. If you are willing, then it would cover one simple angle of regrowth, yes.
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Most people including myself dont have any side effects from Propecia. People who do claim all these side effects, i bet they either have an underlying problem, are eating like ****, on other meds,ect,ect.


A simple reduction in DHT shouldnt cause anything more than a possible slight drop in sex drive.


Bottom line is thats life, nothing works as good as Propecia for saving your hair, thats a gaurantee. You can gaurantee that Propecia will stop your hairloss or greatly slow it down.


Beleive me i dont like the idea of taking any drugs, but ive tried all that other crap and nothing works as good as Propecia, that is safe.



The root cause of hairloss in those people who's follicles are sensative to DHT, is DHT. DHT may trigger inflammation and other things thats damage the hair, but the root cause is DHT.
 
[QUOTE
Bottom line is thats life, nothing works as good as Propecia for saving your hair, thats a gaurantee. [/QUOTE]

Would YOU, GURANTEE my hair not falling out if I took propecia? Does the maker?? So I could sue for millions if it did not, right?

Anyway, I started using this VM and the java shampoo about 3-4 weeks ago. I know that it is winter and my hair does not grow as fast during this time. I never noticed my hair thinning till after the end of last winter/spring when the ole ball cap came off and people started telling me I was going bald lol. Now after a few weeks, I really think this stuff is working. Seems to be getting thicker in the front. Had my hair cut about 2 weeks ago and could tell long from short, been watching some go from 1/8" to 1/2" during that time. I only put it on per directions as per dsade's only at night. ( I usually have a late shower and do not in the morning during winter months, too cold) so it stays all day. time will tell???

BTW, I think i read somewhere on here about itchy scalp and someone using tea tree shampoo/conditioner. I only have a problem with my head/scalp iching in the winter months when I wear a cap. I have to wear a baseball hat as I cant do a beenie (too itchy) any help???? Seems my head needs to breath........
 
superone said:
Most people including myself dont have any side effects from Propecia. People who do claim all these side effects, i bet they either have an underlying problem, are eating like ****, on other meds,ect,ect.


A simple reduction in DHT shouldnt cause anything more than a possible slight drop in sex drive.


Bottom line is thats life, nothing works as good as Propecia for saving your hair, thats a gaurantee. You can gaurantee that Propecia will stop your hairloss or greatly slow it down.


Beleive me i dont like the idea of taking any drugs, but ive tried all that other crap and nothing works as good as Propecia, that is safe.



The root cause of hairloss in those people who's follicles are sensative to DHT, is DHT. DHT may trigger inflammation and other things thats damage the hair, but the root cause is DHT.
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propecia doesnt remain effective and many times once the effectiveness wears off theres a backlash of hair loss or at the very least it begins again and remains resistant to propecia..that leaves one with the option of dutastearide (sp?)..not a very nice med..Lasers work, some specialty minox formulas work..i use Sineres Nanominox FMS (really better suited to someone who's hairloss is in early stages) and i think & hope that this Virile Mane is a winner too..

btw..many people have described more than just a small drop in sex drive as a side effect..perhaps they are the exception but why take the chance and suffer the consequences to find out if its going to happen? just my opinion
 
Has anyone noticed any link between VM and hair color? I've read some vague things here and there about IGF-1 and pigmentation. Although I would imagine any change there to occur over a very long period of time.
 
superone said:
Would YOU, GURANTEE my hair not falling out if I took propecia? Does the maker?? So I could sue for millions if it did not, right?

Anyway, I started using this VM and the java shampoo about 3-4 weeks ago. I know that it is winter and my hair does not grow as fast during this time. I never noticed my hair thinning till after the end of last winter/spring when the ole ball cap came off and people started telling me I was going bald lol. Now after a few weeks, I really think this stuff is working. Seems to be getting thicker in the front. Had my hair cut about 2 weeks ago and could tell long from short, been watching some go from 1/8" to 1/2" during that time. I only put it on per directions as per dsade's only at night. ( I usually have a late shower and do not in the morning during winter months, too cold) so it stays all day. time will tell???

BTW, I think i read somewhere on here about itchy scalp and someone using tea tree shampoo/conditioner. I only have a problem with my head/scalp iching in the winter months when I wear a cap. I have to wear a baseball hat as I cant do a beenie (too itchy) any help???? Seems my head needs to breath........
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Okay Mr. 1 post wonder...........


YES joker, the FDA studies showed that after 5 YEARS of Propecis men still had MORE hair than they began with. Yes i can gaurantee you it will give you the best results out of anything that is SAFE.


But i coudl give a **** if you lose your hair or not! Im keeping mine![/QUOTE]
1
 
cld517 said:
propecia doesnt remain effective and many times once the effectiveness wears off theres a backlash of hair loss or at the very least it begins again and remains resistant to propecia..that leaves one with the option of dutastearide (sp?)..not a very nice med..Lasers work, some specialty minox formulas work..i use Sineres Nanominox FMS (really better suited to someone who's hairloss is in early stages) and i think & hope that this Virile Mane is a winner too..

btw..many people have described more than just a small drop in sex drive as a side effect..perhaps they are the exception but why take the chance and suffer the consequences to find out if its going to happen? just my opinion
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This is not true.

FDA clinical trials show that after 5 years on Propecia men still had more hair than they started with.


I know guys on the hairloss forums that have maintained there hair for over 10 years on Propecia. And there is no "backlash" of hairloss. If Propecia starts to loose its effectiveness for some reason then you just keep slowly thinning, or return to the state/pace that you would have continued to loose hair in the first place if you never tried Propecia at all.



In MOST cases it works very well for people, some better than others obviously but for the person with average hairloss IF caught early enough it can be very effective at maintaining hair for 10 years plus.



NO treatments remain completely effective forever, but Propecia is your best shot. As i said it should be your first treatment option, and all the others things second for added support.



There are a billion people in this world, so of course your going to hear a few stories of side effects here and there, but 95% of people dotn have any side effects on Propecia, just like any other drug, a mild drop in libido at most usually, but usually these minor side effects go away with time.



These crazy propecia horror stories are a joke! I'll bet you any money its there shitty lifestyle that is causing them all there problems not Propecia, or they have an underlying problem/condition. There are people in this world that naturally lack the ability to produce type 2 DHT, and they dont have any of these crazy side effects. They just dont go bald or get prostate cancer! Finasteride and Proscar have been around for over 20 years, and they have a perfect track record, they are perfectly safe. And if you do get side effects you can just simply quit and they will go away within 2-4 weeks.



And think about it, this is your hair, you only get 1 head of hair. Once you lose it, its gone for good! So yeah, i think Propecia is worth the very small risk.



Im not knocking this product at all, but it should be a secondary treatment after Propecia, and i can gaurantee you that any other product will not stop your hairloss, you will continue to loose hair and wish you would have tried Propecia. I know, ive been there.
 
:thumbsup:
BodyWizard said:
So this is a Propecia thread now?

Where can we go to continue our conversation *WITHOUT* the pharmeceutical salesmen?
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Good post! Why are there so many trouble makers around here lately rather then guys just wanting to post on the topics the thread is about.......? How about the Propecia argument goes to a new thread so that I dont' keep getting email notifications about your rant on my Blackberry????

Mr.50
 
agreed with the above...

While I too think propecia is one of the best ways to hold onto your hair if you can take it without incurring sides there are certainly people for whom this is not an option. And this thread is not here for discussing the pro's and cons of finasteride use... out of respect for Dsade I think you should take it elsewhere.

People come to this thread to find out how others are getting on with Virile mane, so let's keep it on topic eh?
 
Still waiting on even initial pictures. =(

If you are shy, please email to
mpearson at recomp dot com.

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laozi said:
Just tried to post a picture but it turns out I have to have 50 posts or more to be able to post pictures!
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Yep, I ran into the same problem. Can't even post a link to pics. I understand the reason for the rule (spammers are EVERYWHERE on these forums :zx11pissed:), but it's still a bummer...
 
As an aside, there may be a synnergy between Toco and Sesamin. I don't have enough posts to add the link from pubmed, however.

But oral sesamin might be an addition to the Toco & Virile Mane Stack, from what I read from the study.
 
novamanms said:
As an aside, there may be a synnergy between Toco and Sesamin. I don't have enough posts to add the link from pubmed, however.

But oral sesamin might be an addition to the Toco & Virile Mane Stack, from what I read from the study.
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Agree. The lignans from sesame seeds help boost cellular concentrations of Vitamin E (tocopherols and tocotrienols) partly by inhibiting lipid peroxidation and regenerating oxidized Vitamin E.
 
Been paying close attention to application & after, and am convinced that any and *all* rub-off residue is from the hair itself - not the scalp. Absorption is excellent, and an hour later, there is no residue to wipe off...yet the shafts of the hairs themselves take on an unmistakeable brown tinge...which can be removed by rubbing with a cloth.

This is with roughly 2 ml applied from original hairline back to the crown & rubbed-in vigorously a minute or more.

Regrowth is very noticeable so far, but mostly in the form of dark new hairs thickening the scalp-cover; not so much regrowth in the receded areas...yet.
 
I've been on VM for over 2 months now. Probably at 10 weeks. Just had to start my second bottle...so 1 bottle gave me 2.5 months.

As for results, I seem to have stayed status quo with where I was when I last checked in. Not worse, but not significantly better overall.

I don't have enough significant new growth that it's noticeable except when my wife is looking closely.

However, I do have the same new growth I saw last time. The sprouts I gained when I started using VM are getting longer and are terminal hairs.

In terms of volume of new growth, it's not enough to make a cosmetic difference yet.

I'm staying the course with it and seeing what the next couple of months brings. I'm still hopeful.

I don't think it's done anything to hurt my hair loss, but I also am not ready to tell you guys it's a magic bullet of any sort.

Time will tell. So far my experience is positive but not out of this world.

As for this product causing people to lose hair, I don't see any evidence at all that suggests that in myself.

I think giving this 6 solid months of use is a fair gauge of the product effectiveness.
 
I have been on vm for two months now. I am also taking toco-8, java lustre and a few other things.I got a few new hairs within 3 weeks and shedding initially stopped. However, in the past two weeks shedding has increased. I now lose hairs when I apply vm. This could be a result of slacking on toco-8, drinking more than usual, or vm, I don't know. Overall hair looks thicker, especially on the back of my head.
 
hairlosstalk forum has a discussion about peppermint oil for hairloss.

said to decrease DHT but might be bad for hair over all? Like damage or slow down hair regrowth?????????
 
sammy605 said:
I have been on vm for two months now. I am also taking toco-8, java lustre and a few other things.I got a few new hairs within 3 weeks and shedding initially stopped. However, in the past two weeks shedding has increased. I now lose hairs when I apply vm. This could be a result of slacking on toco-8, drinking more than usual, or vm, I don't know. Overall hair looks thicker, especially on the back of my head.
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That is exactly what has happened with me. Shedding initially stopped then started again at about week 7 or 8. dsade said at 9 weeks I should not be shedding, which kind of freaked me out and I thought about stopping my VM use. I loved the shampoo at first, then my hair started drying out really bad, so I switched back to Nioxin. I think I got my hoped up to high for this one, however I'm sticking with it for at least 6 months.
 
Hadrion, wrote my update to a T. I have a few new hairs, but nothing really noticable yet, just about to start second bottle..
 
Improvement update: I was very concerned about the rate of sheding at over 2 months in, so I had to make some changes. I stoped using the java lustra shampoo, and switched back to Nioxin shampoo, and I went to one application of Vm( nightly), and within a few days the sheding has slowed down bigtime. My hair is much fuller now, with much less gaps in my part. I have also been taking 3,000 Iu of vitamin D as suggested by dsade. I think for me, it was just overkill with the shampoo, and twice daily VM applications. I still have no new growth to speak of, but I'm still hopeful that VM will work.
dsade, why are you not posting in this thread lately?
 
AFOX said:
Improvement update: I was very concerned about the rate of sheding at over 2 months in, so I had to make some changes. I stoped using the java lustra shampoo, and switched back to Nioxin shampoo, and I went to one application of Vm( nightly), and within a few days the sheding has slowed down bigtime. My hair is much fuller now, with much less gaps in my part. I have also been taking 3,000 Iu of vitamin D as suggested by dsade. I think for me, it was just overkill with the shampoo, and twice daily VM applications. I still have no new growth to speak of, but I'm still hopeful that VM will work.
dsade, why are you not posting in this thread lately?
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Sorry, AFOX...we have had a 200% increase in volume while at the same time losing two key people.

Great to hear about the changes...I honestly believe the Vitamin D is something overlooked before, and since adding it in I have noticed not only fantastic mood changes, better sleep, and better strength gains in the gym, but an overall thickening effect in areas that I haven't been concentrating on with VM.

Normally, I would not recommend so many changes at one time, since that makes it difficult to tell which change is significant, but I know you were extremely concerned.
 
My update

So far I've had two or three big fat white head pimples near my left temple (more on the forehead) which seem to come and go since I've been on the VM. They are very noticeable. They hurt. They come back after taking care of them. It's annoying, but no biggie.

As far as my hair I can't say I've seen an improvement since the very beggining of December when I started. I actually have more diffuse loss especially in the frontal tuft! It's scaring the **** out of me. I've been doing mostly twice applications probably 5-6 days of the week. Single apps on the other days. I'm not sure how much I shed because I keep a low buzz cut so I cannot comment on that. However, because of the buzz cut it's obvious I've gone downhill as far as coverage and hair quality!! Not sure what to do here. . ?

Dsade are you getting feedback from your users with similar experience to mine? I'm a 24 yo M NW 3V with recent loss. I know some treatments don't start working until month four but **** i'm losing time here. . . .
 
ValiantINC said:
My update

So far I've had two or three big fat white head pimples near my left temple (more on the forehead) which seem to come and go since I've been on the VM. They are very noticeable. They hurt. They come back after taking care of them. It's annoying, but no biggie.

As far as my hair I can't say I've seen an improvement since the very beggining of December when I started. I actually have more diffuse loss especially in the frontal tuft! It's scaring the **** out of me. I've been doing mostly twice applications probably 5-6 days of the week. Single apps on the other days. I'm not sure how much I shed because I keep a low buzz cut so I cannot comment on that. However, because of the buzz cut it's obvious I've gone downhill as far as coverage and hair quality!! Not sure what to do here. . ?

Dsade are you getting feedback from your users with similar experience to mine? I'm a 24 yo M NW 3V with recent loss. I know some treatments don't start working until month four but **** i'm losing time here. . . .
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Out of feedback from over 100, you are one of about 3-4 (all here) reporting similar. As far as I know, you are the only report of significant acne problems.

I believe a few posts up, one of the diffuse losers reported a halting of shedding, and he is now giving it a few weeks of watching closely for new growth.

Can I ask what else you are taking? Vitamin D intake (seems to be QUITE important) as well as overall antioxidant intake?
 
So out of 100 people only 4 have reported a decline in hair quality/shed or are you reffering to the acne near the temples? I'm under the impression a shed "should be a normal" process regarding a product that is working.

Has there been a shedding period from the feedback you've gotten or a worsening of condition? Perhaps an improvement afterwards?

I'm not worried about the acne btw more concerned with my hair! ! I'm in no way trying to bash your product rather trying to understand whether or I might be a bad responder/slightly allergic to this stuff and have a better understanding of the feedback thus far.

As far as vitamin D I do not supplement. The only supps I take are a Calcium magnesium zinc combo and a b complex supp about eod or so. I live in southern california so I'd imagine i'm ok on vitamin d.
 
I've been losing for 25 years. (Old bastard) I've been getting some regrowth in the temple area and a few on the frontal. I've even got one of those "where the f*ck did that hair come from" below my current hairline. No pimples, no loss. I just use it once a day at night and have been for 7 weeks. I've also used tons of crap over the years.
 
Really considering making this just once a day application right before bed as I read in a previous post by Dsade that he recommended that.

Dsade when you come back if you could still reply to my earlier post I'd appreciate it

Thanks*
 
What's the minimal time vm should be left on the scalp? I plan to apply it at night just before i go to bed and shampoo the stuff off in the morning...is this cool?
 
ValiantINC said:
So out of 100 people only 4 have reported a decline in hair quality/shed or are you reffering to the acne near the temples? I'm under the impression a shed "should be a normal" process regarding a product that is working.

Has there been a shedding period from the feedback you've gotten or a worsening of condition? Perhaps an improvement afterwards?

I'm not worried about the acne btw more concerned with my hair! ! I'm in no way trying to bash your product rather trying to understand whether or I might be a bad responder/slightly allergic to this stuff and have a better understanding of the feedback thus far.

As far as vitamin D I do not supplement. The only supps I take are a Calcium magnesium zinc combo and a b complex supp about eod or so. I live in southern california so I'd imagine i'm ok on vitamin d.
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calcium and magnesium combos are pretty useless as the cal and mag compete for absorption when taken together,
consider a better multi like now's adam or similar
 
ValiantINC said:
My update

So far I've had two or three big fat white head pimples near my left temple (more on the forehead) which seem to come and go since I've been on the VM. They are very noticeable. They hurt. They come back after taking care of them. It's annoying, but no biggie.
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Valiant I do believe there is a correlation between the VM and your scalp pimples. Scalp pimples are a sign of elevated levels of IGF-1. Some people have low IGF (insulin like growth factor), some high, and some normal. In your case I would be willing to guess that your IGF-1 levels are a bit high and that is what is causing your acne. I have been using VM religiously for 2 months now with decent results and I know from a blood panel that my IGF-1 levels are relatively low. It's just my 2 cents but I hope it helps.
 
I will still follow this thread closely, but I'll admit that I had to follow common sense and drop VM. To date, I have not seen a single photo that shows even a remote improvement. I feel bad for those who had quit their prior treatments that were working, only to lose anything they gained.

Since dropping VM AND ROGAINE, and by cycling propecia, my hair is the best it's been in the last few years, but I was only a norwood 2 anyway so I had nothing to lose by trying VM, but as I said common sense took over.
 
frangipani68 said:
I will still follow this thread closely, but I'll admit that I had to follow common sense and drop VM. To date, I have not seen a single photo that shows even a remote improvement. I feel bad for those who had quit their prior treatments that were working, only to lose anything they gained.

Since dropping VM AND ROGAINE, and by cycling propecia, my hair is the best it's been in the last few years, but I was only a norwood 2 anyway so I had nothing to lose by trying VM, but as I said common sense took over.
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How do you cycle propecia? Just wondering, becuase I'm thinking about getting on it. Also what is norwood 2? dsade is cool, and I like his other products, but I have zero new growth at almost 3 months, and yes I'm frustrated. I feel like I'm at that crossroads of something better work quick, or I going to lose my hair forever. I think I have to address the dht issue, which I know the VM does not address, so I could care less about a drop in libido, I'm getting propecia for sure.
 
Hopefully this clears up two of the above questions. First Virile Mane does address "the DHT part of hair loss". Peppermint Oil has shown in studies to be a potent anti-androgen (specifically on testosterone, but also DHT via 5 AR) Here is a study that I'll bet you have not seen on the Anti-androgen effects of Peppermint (in tea form)

I tried to post a link but it wouldn't let me so type in this under google search and look at the study done for Urology

Effects of peppermint teas on plasma testosterone

I would also like to clear something else up. Since I have been using Virile Mane I have applied a small amount to the right side of my head, below the balding area. I wanted to see if it would in fact have any negative impact on my hair because peppermint CAN be rather toxic (numerous studies on this just type in peppermint toxicity on google search). So far after approx. 2 months of application I have had ZERO thinning or adverse effects on the non balding area where I applied the Virile Mane. Also many different hair care companies use Peppermint or menthol in their products and i'm sure at least one of them has done their research on the matter. If they sold a shampoo for hair loss that made hair fall out it would be.. bad for business. Anyway, I hope I have cleared up any misconceptions about Peppermint Oil.

I have had a good experience with this product thus far. I have a NW 7 diffuse so my hair loss is BAD. But I have no "slick bald" areas on my head so I guess i'm still in the fight. Here is my current regimine:

I take Maca root and Vitamin Code raw 2 pill each twice daily. I take ZMA+ 3 pills before bed. That is it for supps as of right now.

I use Virile mane during the PM right after my PM shower. I use Approx 14 dabs all over the crown, vertex and frontal region of my head and rub in. I shampoo with a hemp bases shampoo that also includes Tea tree oil and some other natural ingredients. Its for people with dreadlocks but its a great shampoo with great lather nevertheless. Its made by a company called Knotty boy.

I train and practice martial arts. I train daily anywhere from 5-7 days a week. Right now I am caveman training. I eat a clean diet free of most refined grains and sugary foods (I believe this makes a substantial difference in overall health as well as hair health.) I recently stopped wearing hats altogher. HATS CAUSE INFLAMMATION. Since I have stopped wearing hats I have had ZERO inflammation and have not changed anything else. Evertime I put a hat on for more than 5 minutes my head itches insanely. I live in michigan and snowboards so sometimes a hat is a must.

I also use a custom made laser helmet with 110 diodes 3 X a week.

I can't think of anything else of importance right now besides the fact that I know you people want to see pictures on here so I WILL be posting pictures if I do have the ability (i'm a new member), otherwise i'll send to DSADE so he can post. Hope this was informative to the masses.
 
ya i posted about the concern about peppermint, and my healthy hairs are still thick.

if peppermint can be toxic to hair, maybe this is too diluted.

im pretty sure peppermint oil will like burn the scalp, but i dont feel any burning.
 
grove12345 said:
ya i posted about the concern about peppermint, and my healthy hairs are still thick.

if peppermint can be toxic to hair, maybe this is too diluted.

im pretty sure peppermint oil will like burn the scalp, but i dont feel any burning.
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Correct. The exact Peppermint oil content is broken down earlier in the thread...if I can find it I will post the details again, but it's quite low.
 
Dsade:

For us who aren't seeing the kind of good progress you and some others are seeing, would it be better to use Virile Mane only at night? Could it be that two times a day is too much? Or is it just that it will take time?

Cheers!
 
This is my 4th week on VM and I'm extremely impressed! I've used Spiro and Rogaine and all it did for me was slow down hair loss but with this I'm actually regrowing hair!! The left side of my hairline is growing in extremely quickly. The right side is a bit slower but I see new stubble each week!
 
mouse said:
Does VM do anything to improve hair color?
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Based on my experience so far: VM will not cause existing hairs to "turn dark"; my new growth OTOH is coming in mixed light and dark, which is giving my formerly-white head a definite salt'n'pepa look.
 
laozi said:
Dsade:

For us who aren't seeing the kind of good progress you and some others are seeing, would it be better to use Virile Mane only at night? Could it be that two times a day is too much? Or is it just that it will take time?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Considering individual chemistry differences, it is possible that twice a day might be too much for some. I actually have been playing with applications 3 times a day, and I think it has slowed down my progress so I am going back to twice a day.

That said, how long have you been using VM?
 
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