Vicious Labs PHs

xR1pp3Rx said:
test base smesh base... you don't need a test base unless you know lethargy is going to kill your cycle.
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Yeah ive never understood why people say this is a must. My current cycle is the first ive ever done it with one. Maybe feel a bit better but its hard to say. Being a plus isnt the same as being a requirement.
 
Im counting on great sleep, caloric surplus, and my age to help me out in the department.
 
jrock645 said:
Point?
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You can possibly recover without a SERM.

You can possibly experience no on-cycle lethargy.

You cannot see the future. So weigh up the potential pros and cons. I think in both these cases, its most reasonable to assume "the worse" and use other compounds to minimise bigger negatives.
 
Nac said:
You can possibly recover without a SERM.

You can possibly experience no on-cycle lethargy.

You cannot see the future. So weigh up the potential pros and cons. I think in both these cases, its most reasonable to assume "the worse" and use other compounds to minimise bigger negatives.
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Theres potential irreparable harm done by not having a proper pct. Not the case with this other scenario. They arent the same at all.
 
jrock645 said:
Theres potential irreparable harm done by not having a proper pct. Not the case with this other scenario. They arent the same at all.
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Im not saying they are the same in all respects, thats ridiculous. But that doesnt mean they are not the same in some. Id venture that most guys take a SERM not because of potential irreperable damage; they take one to better ensure a speedy hPTA recovery (most guys assume they will recover, one way or the other, with one or without). Irreperable damage will tend to be done before PCT, and not due to a lack of SERM in PCT.

Anyway, on-cycle lethargy sucks. To me, why not utilise measures to minimise it before you get it? Thats the point. You cant see the future.

But, if you have weighed the options and choose not to have some sort of base, great. Some people will just deal with the lethargy, if they even get it.
 
Nac said:
Im not saying they are the same in all respects, thats ridiculous. But that doesnt mean they are not the same in some. Id venture that most guys take a SERM not because of potential irreperable damage; they take one to better ensure a speedy hPTA recovery (most guys assume they will recover, one way or the other, with one or without). Irreperable damage will tend to be done before PCT, and not due to a lack of SERM in PCT.

Anyway, on-cycle lethargy sucks. To me, why not utilise measures to minimise it before you get it? Thats the point. You cant see the future.

But, if you have weighed the options and choose not to have some sort of base, great. Some people will just deal with the lethargy, if they even get it.
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if only we could nail down the cause... I think its more dose related but then I get terrible lethargy on 1andros at label doses. so some hormones do indeed cause it with out sizable dosing.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
if only we could nail down the cause... I think its more dose related but then I get terrible lethargy on 1andros at label doses. so some hormones do indeed cause it with out sizable dosing.
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Yip, sure. Id be surprised if there wasnt multiple causes (and so solutions) of lethargy. Ive read convincing theories that compounds like superdrol (and anavar) cause cortisol-related lethargy; no amount of test/4andro/dermacrine/trest/etc will significantly overcome this. So yep, some compounds may fuk you over regardless.

It can also be a crapshoot as to exactly what "test base" will do the trick. Ive seen some guys get little from dermacrine with LGD; TD trest would seem a more sure-fire solution but we know the other risks that come with using that juggernaut.

Meh, I do agree with you guys, a base is not "necessary" at all. But I guess Id want to do everything I reasonably could to make sure I feel good on-cycle. The argument kinda becomes like the question of when to start using an AI: from the start in anticipation it will be needed...or wait for sides.
 
Shout out to Zoo. I ordered up 2 bottles of that Geozine DMZ. Will run new cycle Jan 2019. So excited, I expect massive gains are a coming. Can't wait.
 
1 week in on the msten. No noticeable changes in size, but my workouts have been more intense than they've been in a long time. Weights and reps are both slightly higher. I maintain around 2400-2500 cals, I've been taking in around 3k and feel like I'm starving on some days.
 
I usually only run Trest on a DHT cycle. I’m kinda low E as it is and even something as mild as androstenedione or EPI will tank my E. So I do 50mg TD and will add in 50mg oral Trest on workout days only preworkout. 1Andro is the only thing that ever destroyed my energy, I couldn’t even get out of bed and had to cut it short.
 
sickomode said:
1 week in on the msten. No noticeable changes in size, but my workouts have been more intense than they've been in a long time. Weights and reps are both slightly higher. I maintain around 2400-2500 cals, I've been taking in around 3k and feel like I'm starving on some days.
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What's your msten dosing?
 
If you dont add 20% calories surplus above maintenance you'll never put on much muscle mass. Regardless of how much msten you take.
 
About to start week 3 of msten at 30mg here and I have to say I’m somewhat disappointed. Not getting the muscle or strength gains from previous msten runs thus far. Lacking muscle fullness I usually get I understand I’m not going to gain 15+ lbs with every run. Two more weeks to go. Anyone else underwhelmed this far?
 
Damn that dont sound like msten @ 30 mg. At that dose you muscles should be a sponge for glycogen. Massive pumps at 30 mg for me previously. I actually had to go back down to 20 cause bp was to high. Different brand though
 
The Express 42 said:
About to start week 3 of msten at 30mg here and I have to say I’m somewhat disappointed. Not getting the muscle or strength gains from previous msten runs thus far. Lacking muscle fullness I usually get I understand I’m not going to gain 15+ lbs with every run. Two more weeks to go. Anyone else underwhelmed this far?
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you are the first to report this I have heard. how many times have you ran msten? trest barely works for me any more at normal doses. just putting that out there.. you could be right about your tolerance to the hormone.
 
The Express 42 said:
About to start week 3 of msten at 30mg here and I have to say I’m somewhat disappointed. Not getting the muscle or strength gains from previous msten runs thus far. Lacking muscle fullness I usually get I understand I’m not going to gain 15+ lbs with every run. Two more weeks to go. Anyone else underwhelmed this far?
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Hey brother, clear your PM’s
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
you are the first to report this I have heard. how many times have you ran msten? trest barely works for me any more at normal doses. just putting that out there.. you could be right about your tolerance to the hormone.
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Good point. 1st msten run I gained 11 lbs. 3rd run I gained 5 or 6. The bigger you get the harder to add lean muscle mass.
 
The Express 42 said:
About to start week 3 of msten at 30mg here and I have to say I’m somewhat disappointed. Not getting the muscle or strength gains from previous msten runs thus far. Lacking muscle fullness I usually get I understand I’m not going to gain 15+ lbs with every run. Two more weeks to go. Anyone else underwhelmed this far?
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Is this the Vicious Labs msten? How many lbs have you gained and how much have you added to your lifts? Calories?
 
netflixNchill said:
Hey brother, clear your PM’s
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Cleared!

But this will be my third run. At a 500 calorie surplus some days a little more trying to put on some clean weight. It is the Vicious Labs Msten and I understand I may not gain as much as previous runs but I am not getting that muscle fullness and glycogen retention I am used to? Always had success with VL so it could be something I’m doing just not sure what lol
 
The Express 42 said:
Cleared!

But this will be my third run. At a 500 calorie surplus some days a little more trying to put on some clean weight. It is the Vicious Labs Msten and I understand I may not gain as much as previous runs but I am not getting that muscle fullness and glycogen retention I am used to? Always had success with VL so it could be something I’m doing just not sure what lol
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How many lbs have you put on to bodyweight and to your lifts though?
 
The Express 42 said:
Cleared!

But this will be my third run. At a 500 calorie surplus some days a little more trying to put on some clean weight. It is the Vicious Labs Msten and I understand I may not gain as much as previous runs but I am not getting that muscle fullness and glycogen retention I am used to? Always had success with VL so it could be something I’m doing just not sure what lol
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Doesn't make sense totally-- I've ran DMZ at least 7x, and even on my last run-- I still get the glycogen retention.
 
That’s crazy to think about but hopefully some changes are on the way soon!
 
just ordered some msten, hopes its legit :33:
 
jrock645 said:
Yeah i got two. Hope its not bunk or ill have to find a plan B for january.
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welp, make a log so ill know if mine is bunk or not lol. plan to use mine feb or march
 
Ill say this, if it is wrong in any way, Zoo wasn’t behind it. (Manufacturer would be at fault) He admires his followers/supporters more than we admire his products, so I’m sure this will be figured out.
 
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