VECTOR pre release leaks and info

Any thoughts on how this would be during PCT after a SARMs cycle? Alongside or after SERM?
 
Guys I’m telling ya this is something anyone can benefit from! Idc to hear ANY non responder bs!
 
JAS51 said:
brundel ETA 2 weeks for Vector? When will writeup be posted?
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In the next few days I'll let out one of the ingredients with a breakdown of its chemical constituents, why the ingredient was used etc. I mean obviously because its anabolic but how often do we see a product labeled as an anabolic or a gda etc but it has random ingredients that have no point in the product. Fillers and bs. So I'll explain why it's there.
This first one you might have heard of but I've never seen it used at this level.
For example It's one thing to use 200mg of a 10:1 extract. And another to use 1000mg of a 100:1. 50x stronger. So even if you have heard of the plant you for sure have never had access to some thing like this.
And again this is just 1 of 3.
Vector is going to be major.
 
SFreed said:
Any thoughts on how this would be during PCT after a SARMs cycle? Alongside or after SERM?
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So far we havnt seen any negative impact on hpta. If anything it seems to be giving it a kick.
I think one of the ingredients has serm like qualities and is also protects against testicular damage. I think it will be ok to use during pct. But not as a pct product.
 
brundel said:
In the next few days I'll let out one of the ingredients with a breakdown of its chemical constituents, why the ingredient was used etc. I mean obviously because its anabolic but how often do we see a product labeled as an anabolic or a gda etc but it has random ingredients that have no point in the product. Fillers and bs. So I'll explain why it's there.
This first one you might have heard of but I've never seen it used at this level.
For example It's one thing to use 200mg of a 10:1 extract. And another to use 1000mg of a 100:1. 50x stronger. So even if you have heard of the plant you for sure have never had access to some thing like this.
And again this is just 1 of 3.
Vector is going to be major.
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paul56778 said:
He has been using creatine, 5 grams daily for the past 3-4 months so fully saturated.
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This does skew the results some for me. Even fully saturated, you obviously make better gains while taking creatine, so figuring out which of the two is doing what, will be a guess.
 
anabolix said:
This does skew the results some for me. Even fully saturated, you obviously make better gains while taking creatine, so figuring out which of the two is doing what, will be a guess.
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sorry but thats nonsense. You wont make significant better gains with creatine. Yes, you get a little stronger after beginning to use it but if you are saturated, the effect stays the same. if you cut it out, you will maybe loose a little bit of your strength but thats it. creatine is effective, yes absolutely, but it seems that you are WAY overestimating it’s effectiveness.
 
brundel said:
In the next few days I'll let out one of the ingredients with a breakdown of its chemical constituents, why the ingredient was used etc. I mean obviously because its anabolic but how often do we see a product labeled as an anabolic or a gda etc but it has random ingredients that have no point in the product. Fillers and bs. So I'll explain why it's there.
This first one you might have heard of but I've never seen it used at this level.
For example It's one thing to use 200mg of a 10:1 extract. And another to use 1000mg of a 100:1. 50x stronger. So even if you have heard of the plant you for sure have never had access to some thing like this.
And again this is just 1 of 3.
Vector is going to be major.
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Curious to see what you've got here.
 
Mike Arnold said:
Curious to see what you've got here.
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I'm gonna try to get ingredient 1 breakdown out by tomorrow.
The guys who tested just this stuff are all asking for more. Even at half dose it was really effective. I think this ingredient won't be a huge surprise. That it's not widely used already is a major head scratcher to me. I think nobody has ever had high enough doses of a strong enough extract to utilize the constituents.
 
anabolix said:
This does skew the results some for me. Even fully saturated, you obviously make better gains while taking creatine, so figuring out which of the two is doing what, will be a guess.
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I think this was misinterpreted. If he had never taken Creatine and started at the same time he could expect some extra gains in size.

I have been using 5g of creatine a day for so long I can't even guess.
I have gained 9.5 lbs. in 43 days. my waist size is the same.
Note: I work pretty hard in the gym but I almost always have. Trust me I can't gain like this naturally with a perfect diet in 6 months.
 
brundel
Update:
I just noticed this stuff puts me in a good mood almost all the time!
Hell if it didnt do anything else I would take it just for the good mood!

almost up 10lbs.
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Studhorse said:
brundel
Update:
I just noticed this stuff puts me in a good mood almost all the time!
Hell if it didnt do anything else I would take it just for the good mood!

almost up 10lbs.
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Them pipes went from guns to cannons!
 
lukehayd said:
Them pipes went from guns to cannons!
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And the lighting was a little better for some reason on the starting pics. I try to stand in the same place. the distance is an issue as well.
should have put markers on the floor where to stand. lol
 
Studhorse said:
And the lighting was a little better for some reason on the starting pics. I try to stand in the same place. the distance is an issue as well.
should have put markers on the floor where to stand. lol
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Yeah your arms and upper pecs/anterior delts got massive
 
Studhorse said:
And the lighting was a little better for some reason on the starting pics. I try to stand in the same place. the distance is an issue as well.
should have put markers on the floor where to stand. lol
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Amazing results!! This stuff is the real deal!!
 
alright enough of the teasing and get on with it lol. I keep hearing two weeks but want it yesterday. exciting supp for sure
 
Studhorse said:
I think this was misinterpreted. If he had never taken Creatine and started at the same time he could expect some extra gains in size.

I have been using 5g of creatine a day for so long I can't even guess.
I have gained 9.5 lbs. in 43 days. my waist size is the same.
Note: I work pretty hard in the gym but I almost always have. Trust me I can't gain like this naturally with a perfect diet in 6 months.
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I don't think so my man. There is no possible way to quantify extra gains. So if youve already been on testosterone, creatine, etc. for awhile, then they are no longer doing anything?? Thats funny, then why take them? If you are familiar with the way appropriate studies are conducted, then you would understand why creatine can skew the results. If creatine wasn't doing anything, then he wouldn't have any problems discontinuing creatine ahead of Vector, so as not to skew the results. Scientifically, his results will essentially be unquantifiable, or worthless imo.
 
anabolix said:
I don't think so my man. There is no possible way to quantify extra gains. So if youve already been on testosterone, creatine, etc. for awhile, then they are no longer doing anything?? Thats funny, then why take them? If you are familiar with the way appropriate studies are conducted, then you would understand why creatine can skew the results. If creatine wasn't doing anything, then he wouldn't have any problems discontinuing creatine ahead of Vector, so as not to skew the results. Scientifically, his results will essentially be unquantifiable, or worthless imo.
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I think the point he is trying to make is that after being on creatine for sometime, the initial weight, size, and strength gains have subsided and are kind of "set," if you will. In a clinical setting, yes that skews results, but with that mindset, and log ANYone does on here should not matter if the testers aren't on the same weight program, and same exact diets. But I think we can say, if a person is fully saturated with creatine for 5 or 6 months, and is gaining at a steady rate monthly , then those gains jump tremendously upon starting Vector, then if the only variable changed is adding Vector to the routine, then we can attribute those to the added supplement.
 
mechka_grizli said:
I think the point he is trying to make is that after being on creatine for sometime, the initial weight, size, and strength gains have subsided and are kind of "set," if you will. In a clinical setting, yes that skews results, but with that mindset, and log ANYone does on here should not matter if the testers aren't on the same weight program, and same exact diets. But I think we can say, if a person is fully saturated with creatine for 5 or 6 months, and is gaining at a steady rate monthly , then those gains jump tremendously upon starting Vector, then if the only variable changed is adding Vector to the routine, then we can attribute those to the added supplement.
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That will skew the results in a clinical or non clinical setting. The only difference is that some on here won't mind. I prefer to refer to studies and logs where one can accurately gauge results. In this case, there will be no quantifiable results. One may "try" and quantify results, but this is no more than guessing. Like I said, if the creatine is no longer helping with gains, then discontinue it and do a proper study imo.
 
anabolix said:
That will skew the results in a clinical or non clinical setting. The only difference is that some on here won't mind. I prefer to refer to studies and logs where one can accurately gauge results. In this case, there will be no quantifiable results. One may "try" and quantify results, but this is no more than guessing. Like I said, if the creatine is no longer helping with gains, then discontinue it and do a proper study imo.
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I mean this with all due respect and not trying to start a fight here, but why are you interested in the product at all then. One of the testers has already said he is taken creatine as well. So based off your thoughts, his 9lbs gained is skewed. The only way for you to know for sure is to purchase yourself and discontinue ALL other supplements and run it and let us know the results
 
anabolix said:
I don't think so my man. There is no possible way to quantify extra gains. So if youve already been on testosterone, creatine, etc. for awhile, then they are no longer doing anything?? Thats funny, then why take them? If you are familiar with the way appropriate studies are conducted, then you would understand why creatine can skew the results. If creatine wasn't doing anything, then he wouldn't have any problems discontinuing creatine ahead of Vector, so as not to skew the results. Scientifically, his results will essentially be unquantifiable, or worthless imo.
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Then don't use the product. You don't have many friends do you?
 
anabolix said:
That will skew the results in a clinical or non clinical setting. The only difference is that some on here won't mind. I prefer to refer to studies and logs where one can accurately gauge results. In this case, there will be no quantifiable results. One may "try" and quantify results, but this is no more than guessing. Like I said, if the creatine is no longer helping with gains, then discontinue it and do a proper study imo.
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Be realistic. What you are asking for is done during multi million dollar drug approvals, not small supplement companies. The closest thing to what you’re asking for is done by Muscletech. How do you feel about those results? In the supplement world, any biostatistician would absolutely rip every single “supplement test” to shreds. However, I don’t disagree with you completely. In fact, I turned down the opportunity to test Vector because I had recently started a FD 2.0/Viron/Exotherm run and felt that I wouldn’t be able to honestly give feedback on what Vector since I hadn’t been on those together in years. That being said, a middle aged 200lb+ experienced lifter who has been on specific supplements for an extended period of time, and has experienced little or no changes for a while, does not need to discontinue creatine to give us a decent idea of what a product is doing. I’m looking forward to trying it myself, maybe you will too.
 
mechka_grizli said:
I think the point he is trying to make is that after being on creatine for sometime, the initial weight, size, and strength gains have subsided and are kind of "set," if you will. In a clinical setting, yes that skews results, but with that mindset, and log ANYone does on here should not matter if the testers aren't on the same weight program, and same exact diets. But I think we can say, if a person is fully saturated with creatine for 5 or 6 months, and is gaining at a steady rate monthly , then those gains jump tremendously upon starting Vector, then if the only variable changed is adding Vector to the routine, then we can attribute those to the added supplement.
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Well said.
I think he misunderstood my point. My point is I have been using creatine for yearsssss, I'm not on TRT or any other supplements except I do use BCAA's intra with PeakO2 and almost always a Stim or stim free pre workout w/ Peak.
Trust me adding VECTOR has made a huge difference.
Being Natty and being able to gain 10+ lbs in 45 days with little to no additional fat gain is pretty awesome for me!
I'm lucky to gain 2lbs of muscle a year at this point in my lift life of over 35 years. My diet stays pretty consistent month after month. I might try to cut my cals in the spring and summer so I'm not as fat. in the winter I weight around 200-205 and in the summer about 195.

Hope this made sense?

To compare one person to another is impossible. this is just my experience and testimonial with VECTOR.
 
toddmuelheim said:
Be realistic. What you are asking for is done during multi million dollar drug approvals, not small supplement companies. The closest thing to what you’re asking for is done by Muscletech. How do you feel about those results? In the supplement world, any biostatistician would absolutely rip every single “supplement test” to shreds. However, I don’t disagree with you completely. In fact, I turned down the opportunity to test Vector because I had recently started a FD 2.0/Viron/Exotherm run and felt that I wouldn’t be able to honestly give feedback on what Vector since I hadn’t been on those together in years. That being said, a middle aged 200lb+ experienced lifter who has been on specific supplements for an extended period of time, and has experienced little or no changes for a while, does not need to discontinue creatine to give us a decent idea of what a product is doing. I’m looking forward to trying it myself, maybe you will too.
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Middle aged! bless your heart. LOL
 
Creatines effects, generally speaking plateau within a month or less. Some people see great results with it this is true but you don't continue to gain weight from it. If he had started creatine when he started vector there might be a viable argument here. But since he didn't I'm not seeing it. Why didn't he gain 9lbs before the vector then? He was on creatine for 6 months with no gain.
In addition we have many other testers who had similar results and were not taking creatine. On top of plenty of evidence that the ingredients in vector can cause significant gains in muscle mass, loss in fat mass with increased performance. And finally nobody claimed this was a controlled study. It's just an example of someone taking the product. At 50% of the production dose.
 
Ok, you know what? I was actually interested in the product, and that's why im curious to see what it can do. Everyone attacking my for having higher standards and understanding what it takes to design a study, is really just showing me who you are and what you know. In no way am I attacking Vector or it's possible results, so no need to attack me! I hope you realize that in doing so, you are only doing a disservice to the product and potential buyers. If you are really going to argue that discontinuing creatine would not allow for MUCH better quantification of the results, then you need to go back to school(not meant as an insult).
 
mechka_grizli said:
I mean this with all due respect and not trying to start a fight here, but why are you interested in the product at all then. One of the testers has already said he is taken creatine as well. So based off your thoughts, his 9lbs gained is skewed. The only way for you to know for sure is to purchase yourself and discontinue ALL other supplements and run it and let us know the results
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And I mean this with all due respect. Since when does advocating for him to drop the creatine for quantifiable results mean I shouldn't be interested in the product? No offense, but that makes no sense. Also, its not my "thoughts" that the results would be skewed, its a fact. I learned how to design studies in college..these are not just "thoughts". I do however agree with you in that you are apparently right..the only way to find out if this works, is to do it myself. Just trying to help, and I'm shocked at all the hate here....its rediculous. :-(
 
My 2 cents. Guys correct about skewing of info. But in reality unless you eat the same exact meals and train the exact same routine at the exact times of days for four weeks and then run the same thing with the addition of the product you’re gonna get a skewed analysis. It’s just not possible to control every variable. As far as creatine. Mike was correct on skewing the data when starting both the product and the creatine at the same time. But when on something for x amount of time what you have done after the initial loading phase is create a baseline. From that baseline you add the new product and compare contrast results accordingly. That’s how everyone of possible should be running their logs, in said analytic fashion.

That being said I can’t wait to either log this for blr or if God’s willing to provide me with extra income by the release so I can run an unsponsored log. I need to be like Studhorse. That change is scary good.
 
I don’t really diet much and just go to the gym I’d log literally just what vector does no special diet no special workout program and no creatine. If anyone wanted that.
 
anabolix said:
Ok, you know what? I was actually interested in the product, and that's why im curious to see what it can do. Everyone attacking my for having higher standards and understanding what it takes to design a study, is really just showing me who you are and what you know. In no way am I attacking Vector or it's possible results, so no need to attack me! I hope you realize that in doing so, you are only doing a disservice to the product and potential buyers. If you are really going to argue that discontinuing creatine would not allow for MUCH better quantification of the results, then you need to go back to school(not meant as an insult).
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I'm for sure not attacking you. Hopefully you don't see it this way.
My point and I think the confusion here lies in one specific distinction.
Your taking anecdotal evidence in the form of one man's experience and trying to somehow compare it to a clinical trial. Which it's not.
It's just 1 experience. Creatine or not.
Now, if we were claiming this was a double blind clinical trial then yea it would be questionable if the subjects were taking creatine. But it's not that and you can't directly compare. It's like comparing apples to a chicken salad. Just 2 completely different things.
 
anabolix said:
And I mean this with all due respect. Since when does advocating for him to drop the creatine for quantifiable results mean I shouldn't be interested in the product? No offense, but that makes no sense. Also, its not my "thoughts" that the results would be skewed, its a fact. I learned how to design studies in college..these are not just "thoughts". I do however agree with you in that you are apparently right..the only way to find out if this works, is to do it myself. Just trying to help, and I'm shocked at all the hate here....its rediculous. :-(
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I also think wait until you see what it is to form an opinion ;)
It'll be much clearer once you see the moa and ingredient profile.
 
bloodnthunder said:
My 2 cents. Guys correct about skewing of info. But in reality unless you eat the same exact meals and train the exact same routine at the exact times of days for four weeks and then run the same thing with the addition of the product you’re gonna get a skewed analysis. It’s just not possible to control every variable. As far as creatine. Mike was correct on skewing the data when starting both the product and the creatine at the same time. But when on something for x amount of time what you have done after the initial loading phase is create a baseline. From that baseline you add the new product and compare contrast results accordingly. That’s how everyone of possible should be running their logs, in said analytic fashion.

That being said I can’t wait to either log this for blr or if God’s willing to provide me with extra income by the release so I can run an unsponsored log. I need to be like Studhorse. That change is scary good.
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I can’t wait for the release I’m really intrigued. And this post and hype was really the icing on the cake for me. Hopefully have it to run March-June possibly July based on how my body reacts and what results I receive
 
toddmuelheim said:
Be realistic. What you are asking for is done during multi million dollar drug approvals, not small supplement companies. The closest thing to what you’re asking for is done by Muscletech. How do you feel about those results? In the supplement world, any biostatistician would absolutely rip every single “supplement test” to shreds. However, I don’t disagree with you completely. In fact, I turned down the opportunity to test Vector because I had recently started a FD 2.0/Viron/Exotherm run and felt that I wouldn’t be able to honestly give feedback on what Vector since I hadn’t been on those together in years. That being said, a middle aged 200lb+ experienced lifter who has been on specific supplements for an extended period of time, and has experienced little or no changes for a while, does not need to discontinue creatine to give us a decent idea of what a product is doing. I’m looking forward to trying it myself, maybe you will too.
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That would be great :-) haha, but I'm not asking for a million dollar study. I only suggested dropping the creatine for quantifiable results and a more accurate portrayal of Vectors effects. Nonetheless, I have had success with other blr products and am still interested in trying this myself.
 
anabolix said:
That would be great :-) haha, but I'm not asking for a million dollar study. I only suggested dropping the creatine for quantifiable results and a more accurate portrayal of Vectors effects. Nonetheless, I have had success with other blr products and am still interested in trying this myself.
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From what I've seen so far I don't suspect anyone will be disappointed with this stuff.
 
brundel said:
I'm for sure not attacking you. Hopefully you don't see it this way.
My point and I think the confusion here lies in one specific distinction.
Your taking anecdotal evidence in the form of one man's experience and trying to somehow compare it to a clinical trial. Which it's not.
It's just 1 experience. Creatine or not.
Now, if we were claiming this was a double blind clinical trial then yea it would be questionable if the subjects were taking creatine. But it's not that and you can't directly compare. It's like comparing apples to a chicken salad. Just 2 completely different things.
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No worries, I don't feel like you are attacking me. I appreciate your intelligent discussion, without resorting to insults :-). Clinical double blind study or not, im still adamant that dropping the creatine before the Vector would be a big help in clarifying the results. His anecdotal evidence would be based only on one variable. The creatine just muddies his experience. I do have high hopes for this though and will likely try it myself. I do appreciate your hard work and innovation on these things...and the civil discussion. :-)
 
Please baby Jesus can we move on the last couple of pages have been mind nummingly hard to read. When someone doesn’t understand the basics of something that’s been out for over 20 years it’s time to move on.
 
dcoen21 said:
Please, can we move on? The last couple of pages have been mind nummingly hard to read. When someone doesn’t understand the basics of something that’s been out for over 20 years, it’s time to move on.
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I like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches made with extra crunchy peanut butter.
 
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