lilbigman15
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to help with lean gainz
Was just going to say this isnt going to end well lolIn for some mature, professional, and science-based discussion from te repz
No, KMS (or any natural supplement) isn’t as potent as a PH/SteroidSome people are comparing vector to Andros. I put on a lot of mass with Andro cycles. Is Korean mistletoe as potent as Andros? Some people claiming 10-12lbs growth, which I'm highly skeptical.
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I know this. I see people claiming it's on par with Andros. The best natty I've ever used and there hardly any worth a dime, allowed for 4lbs at best.No, KMS (or any natural supplement) isn’t as potent as a PH/Steroid
If you're used to AAS and PH, then most natural anabolics will be somewhat underwhelming compared to their hormonal counterparts. That said, they do have utility. For example, utilizing a natural anabolic during PCT can help to better maintain the strength and muscle gained on-cycle. Also, K1NGSLAYER would have utility as an appetite booster and digestive aid while on-cycle...as I'm sure you know, sometimes eating enough when trying to gain weight while on can be a challenge in and of itself.I know this. I see people claiming it's on par with Andros. The best natty I've ever used and there hardly any worth a dime, allowed for 4lbs at best.
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My bad, was doing a few things at once. KMS = Kabuki Movement System which is another tab I have open at the moment lol.One quick point: It's actually abbreviated KME* not KMS.
OMG. You're so nice, lol. I didn't even see that... now I'm interested in something called Kabuki Movement System. (Googling...) Ok, I'm going to be lost for a few hours. Ha.If you're used to AAS and PH, then most natural anabolics will be somewhat underwhelming compared to their hormonal counterparts. That said, they do have utility. For example, utilizing a natural anabolic during PCT can help to better maintain the strength and muscle gained on-cycle. Also, K1NGSLAYER would have utility as an appetite booster and digestive aid while on-cycle...as I'm sure you know, sometimes eating enough when trying to gain weight while on can be a challenge in and of itself.
My bad, was doing a few things at once. KMS = Kabuki Movement System which is another tab I have open at the moment lol.
For natties (both tested athletes and those who choose to be natty for personal reasons), they are going to be more noticeable. It's tough when you've already experienced hormonals as natural supplements aren't really going to compare. That said, most people aren't blasting and cruising hormonals year round (and even when blasting and cruising, you are cruising at some point), so it can be useful to have something natural to help you maintain as much as possible.I agree as I use them in PCT, but as a standalone not worth it in my opinion.
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Yeah Duffin has some good information out. Some of it is behind a paywall, but start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tAPwLavb5A&list=PLb-4Y0uOHcQfDu9K5tkppM0iCqpTieOFyOMG. You're so nice, lol. I didn't even see that... now I'm interested in something called Kabuki Movement System. (Googling...)
Ok, I'm going to be lost for a few hours. Ha.
OMG. You're so nice, lol. I didn't even see that... now I'm interested in something called Kabuki Movement System. (Googling...) Ok, I'm going to be lost for a few hours. Ha.
Great info.For natties (both tested athletes and those who choose to be natty for personal reasons), they are going to be more noticeable. It's tough when you've already experienced hormonals as natural supplements aren't really going to compare. That said, most people aren't blasting and cruising hormonals year round (and even when blasting and cruising, you are cruising at some point), so it can be useful to have something natural to help you maintain as much as possible.
Yeah Duffin has some good information out. Some of it is behind a paywall, but start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tAPwLavb5A&list=PLb-4Y0uOHcQfDu9K5tkppM0iCqpTieOFy
You have to remember that Vector isnt just Korean mistletoe.Some people are comparing vector to Andros. I put on a lot of mass with Andro cycles. Is Korean mistletoe as potent as Andros? Some people claiming 10-12lbs growth, which I'm highly skeptical.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using AnabolicMinds mobile app
Nudes?Look at you two, maybe there is a chance for this planet after all. Kind of reminds me of the ending to Rocky 4
What Rocky 4 did you watch? lol.Nudes?
oooooh. ROCKY.What Rocky 4 did you watch? lol.
That said, I'm not going first.
Thank you kind sir.Well said by VO2.
I’m partial to K1ngslayer. I think those eating in a surplus will benefit greatly from the increased nutrient uptake (and reduction in bloating). Lot of talk about OL’s KMS extract (and rightfully so), but it’s just part of an excellent profile
Looking forward to a comparison of the two. Will you be keeping all other variables the same for both runs?Just finishing vector now and it has been a tremendous run. Will be trying king slayer next. I love BLR and olympus labs. Best two companies on this board. Can't go wrong with either.
It’d be optimal to do a 8-12 week test for both, but that’d be quite priceyI'd say get both and run each solo and see what gets you better results.
When you do a 100:1 extract, do all of those constituents stay active and that highly dosed? Or are you extracting to have a highly active bioavailability of each of those constituents? I guess I’m wondering how much of what you listed is actually in the final product.Take a look at the Eriobotrya Japonica.
It has some interesting chemical constituents.
Epicatechin
Ursolic acid
Chlorogenic acid
Corosolic acid
Oleanolic acid
Caffeic acid
Procyanidin B2
Protocatechuic acid
Ferulic acid
Tormentic acid
Naringenin
Ellagic acid
EGCG
Quercetin
This is a pretty impressive list of actives. Lets take a look at what some of these do.
Epicatechin.
EJ doesnt have as much epicatechin as something like cocoa or green tea but there is still a decent amount. Its estimated that there is about 150mg per 100g in cocoa and there is about 60mg in EJ so a little less than half. None the less there is enough that epicatechin will be active especially with Narinigenin, EGCG and quercetin in the mix as these all increase the absorption of epicatechin. Lets think of epicatechin as sort of a bonus.
Ursolic acid.
There is a decent dose in here at upwards of 300mg estimated per daily dose of our EJ extract but Ursolic acid is also a major constituent of another of Vectors ingredents giving us approx 500mg + of Ursolic acid per dose. Ursolic acid orally has been show in studies to increase muscle mass, Increase strength, Increase brown fat, Increase glucose utilization and increase exercise capacity. Its been stated that UA is not viable orally but I think I disagree and it seems as though studies also indicate that it is orally active although it has a very poor absorption rate. High doses are required and studies indicate 300+ should be enough orally to produce the desired results.
Corosolic acid.
Corosolic acid is a GDA generally extracted from Banaba (lagerstroemia speciosa) but a significant amount is present in Eribotrya J. Corosolic acid works orally at relatively low doses and has some interesting effects. Even doses of 10mg are viable to display its impressive effects. Most people have heard of Corosolic acid for its glucose effects as it is a major GDA. Corosolic acid can help to keep glucose down with multiple mechanisms of action. Glut4 translocation, reduced insulin resistance as well as all kinds of enzymatic suppression and or expression.
-Corosolic acid has been shown to reduce cholesterol levels and enhance lipid metabolism.
-Corosolic acid is also a great fat burner not only through antidiabetic effects but also by retarding absorption of fatty acids.
-Corosolic acid is a potent and selective inhibitor of the enzyme (11-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1) that converts inactive cortisone to active cortisol. Therefore, corosolic acid may prevent excessive cortisol production.
Overall Corosolic acid is one of Vectors great components. Increased Glucose uptake into muscles, decreased blood sugar, increased insulin sensitivity, increased fat utilization and decreased fat diposition plus decreased cortisol make Corosolic a powerhouse.
Oleanolic acid
Oleanolic acid (OA) is a constituent of Olea Europea, Viscum Album and Eriobotrya japonica as well as others.
Its long been used in Chinese medicine for treatment of liver disorders and other ailments. OA increases glucose utilization, is a solid vasodilator and increases expression of the AKT pathway.
Protocatechuic acid
Insulin like activity by activating PPAPy.
Decreases ROS
Antiageing
Anti inflammatory
Antiseptic
analgesic
GLUT4 upregulation
Antioxidant
Protects the testes from damage and stress
Cardio protective
Caffeic acid
Increased exercise capacity
Reduced Blood Lactate
Increased fat loss
Endurance
Ferulic acid, 4-hydroxy-3-methoxycinnamic acid, is one of the most ubiquitous phenolic acids, found in the
bran of grasses such as wheat, rice, and oats. It belongs to the family of plant hydroxycinnamic acids, which
include caffeic acid, sinapic acid, and p-coumaric acid. Recent studies have provided evidence that ferulic acid reduces the risk of disease, including
Alzheimer’s disease, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and colon cancer. Currently, ferulic acid is used to enhance athletic
performance, both in humans and racehorses. Supplementation by it has been found to increase muscle strength in weight lifters.
In one animal study a single acute administration of Ferulic acid increased swimming time by 170%.
Ferulic acid prevented the decrease in catalase, superoxide dismutase and protected against the depletion of GST activity induced by exhaustive
exercise.
Exercise can be associated with oxidative stress. Thus exercise can act as a powerful source of Reactive Oxygen Species, depending on duration and intensity. During exhaustive exercise, fat is typically used as the primary energy source, thus sparing glycogen stores, which in turn retards fatigue. However, during strenuous exercise substantial production of ROS occurs via beta oxidation during the utilization of fat.
In addition, a dramatic increase in oxygen consumption in the body creates an imbalance between ROS and the antioxidant defense system resulting in fatigue.
Acute adminstration of Ferulic acid prevents fatigue, increases endurance and protects the body during exhaustive exercise.
Chlorogenic acid
CA often reffered to as green coffee extract is widely known for its antiobesity effects via PPARa agonism and by preventing proliferation of new fat cells. CA can increase muscular glucose uptake both by stimulating Non insulin dependent AMPK as well as stimulating pAKt. Great for keeping bodyfat off while promoting muscle growth.
Tormentic acid
Anti diabetic
Glut4
AMPK
Were you in a surplus before starting?I can't speak for kingslayer, as I haven't tried it. But on Vector I did go from 190 to 200lbs. All muscle, doubtful. But my pant size hasn't gone up. I know that isn't the best scale to measure by, but I haven't seen where I am carrying fat compared to pre-Vector. But every lift I do has gone up considerably over the 2+months time.
Exactly. It’s not like anyone can give any feedback on K1ngslayer yet.WHy does this thread even exist lol, kingslayet JUST got released.
What do you mean statistics show it wont?Vector blows away anything that has come out in the past 35 years. I hope OL's new product is better, but statistics show it wont be and their are hundreds and hundreds of positive feedback comments on Vector.
Exactly smh, shills gonna shill I guessWhat do you mean statistics show it wont?
I just dont understand how you can bash something without seeing any user feedback or trying it yourself lol. I appreciate both brands and give them both credit for thinking outside the box.I think he means "odds" are it wont be as good. Time will tell. Im a big fan of both companies and loved my vector run. picked up two Kingslayer and hoping it goes just as well. we shall see...
I mean no other product imo in the past 35 years comes close to Vector. So what are the chances a new product is going to be better than Vector. Low to nil.What do you mean statistics show it wont?
I m not bashing anything. I use OL Products every day. Its simple...odds are it wont come close.I just dont understand how you can bash something without seeing any user feedback or trying it yourself lol. I appreciate both brands and give them both credit for thinking outside the box.
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