pfresh
Well-known member
Last time
VECTOR , Doggcrapp, Progressive Calories
- Thread starter pfresh
- Start date
Last time
pfresh
Well-known member
Work out log
Had a great workout tonight. Really pushed it and killed the log book!
Decline Barbell Chest Press
Rest pause rep goal 11-15
255 pound barbell
1)8
2)5
3)4
Rep total 17 reps
Standing dumbbell overhead press
Rest pause rep goal 15-20
60 pound dumbbells
1)8
2)6
3)5
Rep total 19
Ez Bar skull crusher
Straight set rep goal 15-30
85 pound ez curl bar
1)28 reps
Added four reps here
Chin up
Rest pause rep goal 20 reps
35 pounds around waist
1)11
2)6
3)4
Rep total: 21 reps
Added two reps here! Time to increase the weight.
T-Bar row
Straight set rep goal 10-12
205 pounds
1) 12
Had a great workout tonight. Really pushed it and killed the log book!
Decline Barbell Chest Press
Rest pause rep goal 11-15
255 pound barbell
1)8
2)5
3)4
Rep total 17 reps
Standing dumbbell overhead press
Rest pause rep goal 15-20
60 pound dumbbells
1)8
2)6
3)5
Rep total 19
Ez Bar skull crusher
Straight set rep goal 15-30
85 pound ez curl bar
1)28 reps
Added four reps here
Chin up
Rest pause rep goal 20 reps
35 pounds around waist
1)11
2)6
3)4
Rep total: 21 reps
Added two reps here! Time to increase the weight.
T-Bar row
Straight set rep goal 10-12
205 pounds
1) 12
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Eggs? You can hardboil a bunch pretty quickly. Liquid egg whites can also replace whey protein I guess; it just won’t taste as good. Ground beef has pretty easy prep too; you can cook a few pounds at once in a few minutes.
pfresh
Well-known member
I could just drink the egg whites straight up right?
Go to Costco and fill the fridge and drink one litre a day?
muscleupcrohn
Legend
The liquid egg whites should be pasteurized. If they are, then yes. Technically you could even drink whole eggs like Rocky if they’re pasteurized, but that can upset some people’s stomachs. I wouldn’t rely on liquid eggs for a ton of protein, maybe just a shake or two a day.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Just buy 80/20 beef or something instead of lean ground beef. It’s cheaper too. Very good mixed with a bowl of rice. Super easy to make too.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Have heard raw egg is hard to digest.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
It can be. Which is why I’d only have a little, especially at first. I think liquid egg whites are easier on the stomach than liquid whole eggs.
But cutting out dairy, if it doesn’t upset your stomach, to replace it with a ton of raw liquid eggs just seems really silly to me.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
True.
pfresh
Well-known member
That is silly. Dairy was a very convenient protein source. It made hitting protein macros a breeze. Also if I was full I could drink that faire life milk and it made it easy to get to 400 grams of protein.
The Solution
Legend
If you have not recognized your own red flags yet I do not know what else to tell you
Now you have to do a full diet change
invest more money into supplements to support this so called "Diet Change"
which in essence is just putting more money down the toilet towards something that makes a minimal difference in the grand scheme of things due to the caloric surplus.
Needless to say you are getting far more miconutrients then you ever will with dairy and fruits which I have posted over a dozen studies to back that statement. Nobody ever got fat off eating fruit. People got fat because they simply ate too many calories. Adding more fuel to the fire (as you will the next weeks) is just increasing the surplus meaning more weight/fat gain especially if you are trending at 1% BF Increase per week. That would place you as I pointed out already almost 30 pounds up and over 12% BF for the log.
Silly is being nice.
pfresh
Well-known member
Maybe the vector will kick in soon and stop that from happening. We will have to wait and see. You said most natural anabolic take four weeks to kick in. We have to give this a fair shot of using that caloric surplus for muscle
HIT4ME
Well-known member
You CAN drink your pasteurized egg whites, but why would you? Plus, the cross binding from cooking the eggs increases their quality as a protein source.
Ground beef, chicken, eggs, fish...your sources become a little limited without dairy unless you want to go with soy, rice or pea protein.
For potassium...spinach, broccoli, coconut water.
Ground beef, chicken, eggs, fish...your sources become a little limited without dairy unless you want to go with soy, rice or pea protein.
For potassium...spinach, broccoli, coconut water.
pfresh
Well-known member
Coconut water , thank you , I didn’t think of that.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
This is a good point. If it takes 4 weeks to kick in, and then it should work, why are you being advised to make all these changes? Shouldn't you just keep on keepin' on?
pfresh
Well-known member
They are also high in fat and protein . A great addition! Thank you, these will be on the shopping list
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Vector isn’t going to overturn the basic laws of thermodynamics man.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Just eat the bananas man. No one has EVER put on too much fat from eating a banana or two.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Strong this. If everything is still going along with Brundel’s plan, why is he making on-the-fly major overhauls to your entire diet already? You should just wait it out stick to the plan then.
pfresh
Well-known member
I am going to do everything exactly the way brundel lays it out so that everyone can see that I gave Vector the fairest chance possible to prove itself.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
But if pumpkins are fruits, shouldn’t their seeds be off limits according to Brundel’s (asinine) advice?
muscleupcrohn
Legend
In all fairness, making constant drastic changes to your diet is NOT giving Vector the fairest chance. The more variables you introduce and change, the harder it becomes to accurately gauge what Vector is doing. If you left it the same and then Vector “kicked in” and you lost some fat and gained muscle faster, that’d show something. But changing up your diet so much can make one question if it’s the Vector or the new diet responsible for the new results.
pfresh
Well-known member
The large caloric surplus shall remain though and without something anabolic that will lead to lots of fat gain
pfresh
Well-known member
I think coconut may be a fruit too?
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Arguably, yes. See how stupid his advice is now?
pfresh
Well-known member
He was probably just using it as a broad term , for fruits high in sugar , i will ask him about pumpkin seeds and coconut water.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Technically the Eriobotrya Japonica in Vector is a fruit too, so you’d better stop using Vector so you can properly log Vector lol.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
So what are your macros going to look like with the diet overhaul? PCF?
muscleupcrohn
Legend
He also said you can still use whey protein for protein, so do that. He specifically mentioned sweet potatoes as being off limits too, which are neither fruits nor very high in sugar.
pfresh
Well-known member
He said cut carbs 30 percent . So carbs were around 400 average daily. So I’m guessing we will down those to 280ish? Protein was already around where it needed to be and I will have to make up the lost carbs with fats.
I think they will be
440 protein
280 carbs
210 fat
In that ball park
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
My guess is that this change is going to increase the rate of fat gain.
The Solution
Legend
Bingo
OP had a plan laid out
He should follow it as is
This way he can be CONSISTENT, and with the plan of attack from the boss himself this way you know if the product lives to the hype in his outlined/controlled environment.
Making all these changes is just skewing varaibles over the course of the log.
Why deviate from the plan of action?
Needless to say, now he wants OP to invest in countless other supplements and products to suit this "Diet Overhaul"
Crock of Crap if you ask me. And 440g of protein for a natural at 210 pounds? Just totally LOL
tyga tyga
Legend
Whatever will make this product appear to work.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
I think the change is going to accelerate fat gain. The body will have to make more adjustmants to more fat, and when you have even ratios of carbs and fat, it is a breeding ground for accelerated fat gain.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Lol
HIT4ME
Well-known member
God darn it. You got me. Same with the coconuts. Cut me some slack...haha
Oh...here is another good source of potassium that you can get at a supermarket and isn't a food, nor a supplement. Morton's Lite Salt. It is a potassium/sodium mix. Bout two-fitty.
pfresh
Well-known member
Going on 5 weeks now. Hard to gauge any benefits that I am getting because of the massive calorie surplus. I recover from work outs really well and have been making strength gains but I have also been eating a ton of food so that is to be expected. The purpose of this log was to see how vector would handle the calorie surplus and so far it hasn’t handled it very well. I have gained about as much fat as a natural would expect when pushing the calories this hard. It is still early on in the vector run and I am still hopeful that it will work. ?
MrKleen73
Legend
I don't know that the dietary strategy laid out for you is the best way to go forward. I am not saying it isn't. However to me personally it sounds like a recipe for digestive issues, increased inflammation, and discomfort. I am not saying it is not an effective way. It has been proven over and over that the restrictive bro way of eating gets the job done. However it also has a lot of known drawbacks and unnecessary discomfort and restrictions. It is like the Bro Based Elimination diet for Body Building, except it contains almost everything that is typically removed in an elimination diet due to being very inflammatory.
Nutrition is really very basic with a few tweaks but most of it is over thought. When it comes to composition most of it is energy balance, then comes macro intake based on insulin sensitivity, which also brings timing into the picture. Here are things I think you need to consider for your goals here.
Energy Balance is about 90% of it - you need a surplus for gains, and a deficit for losses
Carb tolerance / Insulin sensitivity - carbs you need specificity of use, type and timing. Taking them in moderate amounts throughout the day is doing nothing to improve insulin sensitivity, just trying to maintain status quo... Lowering carb intake outside of the peri-workout window and increasing carb volume as high as comfortably possible during the peri-workut window will be more successful in managing insulin sensitivity and also allow you more freedom. Keeping sugar down isn't the answer. You actually want about 30% of your post workout carbs to be sugar and fructose as it greatly increases insulin sensitivity following training. More so than just quick digesting complex carbs for certain. Has been proven. If you want 200-600g of carbs a day that is easy in the peri workout window and the meal following it if having mixed sources of carbs. You find your tolerable carb level while maximizing insulin sensitivity and then fill the rest of the caloric needs with adequate protein intake and fats.
I see no need to go anywhere near 400g of protein, I get that he is thinking of TEF and positive nitrogen balance but that is a lot of protein making digestion harder than it needs to be and eating up to 7-8 meals a day to be able to eat all of these hard to digest carb sources as well as 400g of protein is just inconvenient with no benefit over fewer and more enjoyable meals with the same caloric intake but more easily digested foods that in many cases have better micronutrient profiles.
The real important stuff is more about health, provides micronutrients, ease of digestion, if it causes inflammation, is it enjoyable, is it maintainable, is it convenient, all of these things are literally more important than any of the composition specific benefits of eating the bro way, which incidentally will not provide better benefits outside of increased TEF from the high protein but that benefit is negated by the stress it puts on the additional stress it puts digestive system in my opinion. Same with all the whole grain recommendations.
Personally, I would put all of those things in consideration over just following that advice. Again I am not saying it isn't an effective strategy, to argue that would be ridiculous, I just think there is a better way that will be more comfortable without causing any more fat gain than what was being suggested and in my opinion likely to be less fat gained while improving digestion, absorption, insulin sensitivity and metabolic flexibility.
Nutrition is really very basic with a few tweaks but most of it is over thought. When it comes to composition most of it is energy balance, then comes macro intake based on insulin sensitivity, which also brings timing into the picture. Here are things I think you need to consider for your goals here.
Energy Balance is about 90% of it - you need a surplus for gains, and a deficit for losses
Carb tolerance / Insulin sensitivity - carbs you need specificity of use, type and timing. Taking them in moderate amounts throughout the day is doing nothing to improve insulin sensitivity, just trying to maintain status quo... Lowering carb intake outside of the peri-workout window and increasing carb volume as high as comfortably possible during the peri-workut window will be more successful in managing insulin sensitivity and also allow you more freedom. Keeping sugar down isn't the answer. You actually want about 30% of your post workout carbs to be sugar and fructose as it greatly increases insulin sensitivity following training. More so than just quick digesting complex carbs for certain. Has been proven. If you want 200-600g of carbs a day that is easy in the peri workout window and the meal following it if having mixed sources of carbs. You find your tolerable carb level while maximizing insulin sensitivity and then fill the rest of the caloric needs with adequate protein intake and fats.
I see no need to go anywhere near 400g of protein, I get that he is thinking of TEF and positive nitrogen balance but that is a lot of protein making digestion harder than it needs to be and eating up to 7-8 meals a day to be able to eat all of these hard to digest carb sources as well as 400g of protein is just inconvenient with no benefit over fewer and more enjoyable meals with the same caloric intake but more easily digested foods that in many cases have better micronutrient profiles.
The real important stuff is more about health, provides micronutrients, ease of digestion, if it causes inflammation, is it enjoyable, is it maintainable, is it convenient, all of these things are literally more important than any of the composition specific benefits of eating the bro way, which incidentally will not provide better benefits outside of increased TEF from the high protein but that benefit is negated by the stress it puts on the additional stress it puts digestive system in my opinion. Same with all the whole grain recommendations.
Personally, I would put all of those things in consideration over just following that advice. Again I am not saying it isn't an effective strategy, to argue that would be ridiculous, I just think there is a better way that will be more comfortable without causing any more fat gain than what was being suggested and in my opinion likely to be less fat gained while improving digestion, absorption, insulin sensitivity and metabolic flexibility.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
You are just saying that because no one has overcome the laws of thermodynamics before.
Oh COME ON!!
How can I argue with this??? WTF Kleen.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Well, I see how you are testing things...and I applaud experimentation.
pfresh
Well-known member
Thank you for the great advice. I want to follow brundel advice because I have never tried his way of eating before. I am running a log on the supplement that he created and if he feels that eating a certain way will make vector work noticeably better than I am going to give it a shot.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
You do you, but surely you can see how you making drastic changes to your diet would then be showing the effects of the diet, not the supplement. Also, clearly what he thought was best didn’t work, or he wouldn’t have had to make such drastic last-minute changes to it. This logic is just so baffling. If you want to see what Vector does, you establish a baseline, and then add Vector to see the effects it has. So the changes you can attribute to Vector. But if you suddenly overhaul your diet, how do we know what was responsible for the results; Vector or the change in diet? You think Vector May take so time to kick in; so it should kick in soon. Leave your diet how it was, and see if the kicked-in Vector will help you gain more muscle and/or less fat. That is the best test IMO. And the simplest for you too.
But I give you props for trying to humor Brundel as much as possible, even when it makes no sense.