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VECTOR , Doggcrapp, Progressive Calories

tyga tyga said:
Yikes, that’s a toughy. IMO, I would start with 95lb until you get the movement down.
Click to expand...

Always good to start light especially if you're introducing a new movement to the muscles.
 
I think we have too many cooks in the kitchen here. As the OP cannot follow advice from a dozen people it makes more sense to just allow him to follow the prescribed path.
1. Everyone is different biologically. If the 100 cals per week seems like its too much, your struggling to consume it, gaining fat to rapidly. Drop the overall increase. And, Or stay stagnant for a couple of weeks to allow the body to adjust. Some guys can easily handle 100 added cals per week. Some cant.
My suggestion is stay where you are for at least 2 weeks then adjust.
2. Calorie structure is important here. If you are rapidly gaining bodyfat and your cardio is at max capacity then you need to adjust the composition of the cals.

A. cut 100% of sugar sources. 24 hours daily. Carbs yes, sugar no. So like brown rice ok. Sweet potato no.
B. Cut all Dairy
C. Increase protein to a min of 2g per lb of PROJECTED bodyweight. So if we are aiming for 200lbs eat 400 g.
D. Decrease overall carbs and increase fats. We want to see a 30% min drop in carbs.
E. Make sure you have a good fiber supp, pro and pre biotics help as well. Because the body is taking on alot of food you need to make sure the GI tract is working at 110%. Clear it out and keep things oiled and running smoothly.
F. Try to split meals for more frequent but smaller. So if your at 5 meals go to 7 or 8. YEs its a pain in the ass but keep in mind the goal here. If at the end you have gains 25-30lbs with 30% of the gain being fat this is a MAJOR gain. Its not gonna be easy and just like cutting/dieting its gonna take sacrifice. The number one reason why we see so many guys who are sub 200lbs but spend decades in the gym is they dont eat enough. Its a major stretch on the stomach and gi tract. Spreading the meals out will help. In fact it might make sense to do a mid sleep shake. I used to do a meal right before bed, a shake at 3am and a meal at 8am.

We talked about progressive calories and progressive training but this is not to be done in an unintelligent or unguided way. Those who are saying just keep doing whatever are either hoping for you to fail or not thinking things through.

Take a break on the increase. Apply the principals above and we will revisit in a week.
I have structured bulks and cuts and contest preps for hundreds of guys and girls. Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed the path but not once is this done in a cookie cutter fashion as this is pretty much guaranteed to fail. Adjust, assess, adjust over and over for best results.
 
Also pfresh
Feel free to PM me and Ill give you my email. I can help you dial things in on a more frequent basis.
 
brundel said:
I think we have too many cooks in the kitchen here. As the OP cannot follow advice from a dozen people it makes more sense to just allow him to follow the prescribed path.
1. Everyone is different biologically. If the 100 cals per week seems like its too much, your struggling to consume it, gaining fat to rapidly. Drop the overall increase. And, Or stay stagnant for a couple of weeks to allow the body to adjust. Some guys can easily handle 100 added cals per week. Some cant.
My suggestion is stay where you are for at least 2 weeks then adjust.
2. Calorie structure is important here. If you are rapidly gaining bodyfat and your cardio is at max capacity then you need to adjust the composition of the cals.

A. cut 100% of sugar sources. 24 hours daily. Carbs yes, sugar no. So like brown rice ok. Sweet potato no.
B. Cut all Dairy
C. Increase protein to a min of 2g per lb of PROJECTED bodyweight. So if we are aiming for 200lbs eat 400 g.
D. Decrease overall carbs and increase fats. We want to see a 30% min drop in carbs.
E. Make sure you have a good fiber supp, pro and pre biotics help as well. Because the body is taking on alot of food you need to make sure the GI tract is working at 110%. Clear it out and keep things oiled and running smoothly.
F. Try to split meals for more frequent but smaller. So if your at 5 meals go to 7 or 8. YEs its a pain in the ass but keep in mind the goal here. If at the end you have gains 25-30lbs with 30% of the gain being fat this is a MAJOR gain. Its not gonna be easy and just like cutting/dieting its gonna take sacrifice. The number one reason why we see so many guys who are sub 200lbs but spend decades in the gym is they dont eat enough. Its a major stretch on the stomach and gi tract. Spreading the meals out will help. In fact it might make sense to do a mid sleep shake. I used to do a meal right before bed, a shake at 3am and a meal at 8am.

We talked about progressive calories and progressive training but this is not to be done in an unintelligent or unguided way. Those who are saying just keep doing whatever are either hoping for you to fail or not thinking things through.

Take a break on the increase. Apply the principals above and we will revisit in a week.
I have structured bulks and cuts and contest preps for hundreds of guys and girls. Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed the path but not once is this done in a cookie cutter fashion as this is pretty much guaranteed to fail. Adjust, assess, adjust over and over for best results.
Click to expand...
Maybe he wouldn’t need so many fiber supplements if you didn’t tell him to cut out ALL foods that contain ANY sugar, as plenty of fruits and vegetables naturally contain sugar, but also fiber.

2g/lb is excessive for a natural, and 2g/lb TARGET weight is beyond excessive. Besides being very difficult for most people, it’s not even really going to provide additional benefits relative to a high but not insane protein intake. Not to mention you told him to cut out all dairy, which means no whey protein or milk to help him get to that very high protein mark.

But you then mention shakes, so do you not consider whey dairy, or do you mean shakes with no whey?

Furthermore, 7-8 meals is also excessive. We have research showing that meals every 3-4 hours is optimal. You do not need to wake up to have a shake in the middle of the night, and doing so would do more harm than good for people who have trouble sleeping, so assuming even 6 hours of sleep, 5-6 meals is PLENTY. For most people, going to 7-8 meals will mean less protein at each meal, which will mean not optimally stimulating MPS in any meal, and never allowing it to return to baseline to be stimulated again at the next meal.
 
Workout log

Killed the log book tonight. As I laid in bed last night I feared the widowmaker squats that I knew were waiting for me today...


Preacher curl

Rest pause rep goal 15-30
100 pound ez curl bar

1)13
2)7
3)5

Rep total 25

Reverse preacher curl

Straight set rep goal 12-20
60 pound ez curl bar

1) 20

Added four reps here. Time to increase the weight

Seated plated calf raise

Straight set rep goal 10-12
150 pounds

1) 11

MTS kneeling leg raise

Rest pause rep goal 15-20
120 pounds per leg

Left leg

1) 15
2) 10
3)7

Rep total 32

Right leg

1)15
2)10
3)7

Rep total 32

Increase weight next workout


Barbell pause squat
Slow negative pausing in the hole
Ass to grass

Straight set rep goal 5-9
255 pounds

1)9

Barbell squat ass to grass widow maker
Normal paced squats
215 pounds

1) 20

I was dead at 15 but I refused to rack it until I finished. This was one long and gruelling set.
 
That kind of help from brundel I would consider an honor!
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Maybe he wouldn’t need so many fiber supplements if you didn’t tell him to cut out ALL foods that contain ANY sugar, as plenty of fruits and vegetables naturally contain sugar, but also fiber.

2g/lb is excessive for a natural, and 2g/lb TARGET weight is beyond excessive. Besides being very difficult for most people, it’s not even really going to provide additional benefits relative to a high but not insane protein intake. Not to mention you told him to cut out all dairy, which means no whey protein or milk to help him get to that very high protein mark.

But you then mention shakes, so do you not consider whey dairy, or do you mean shakes with no whey?

Furthermore, 7-8 meals is also excessive. We have research showing that meals every 3-4 hours is optimal. You do not need to wake up to have a shake in the middle of the night, and doing so would do more harm than good for people who have trouble sleeping, so assuming even 6 hours of sleep, 5-6 meals is PLENTY. For most people, going to 7-8 meals will mean less protein at each meal, which will mean not optimally stimulating MPS in any meal, and never allowing it to return to baseline to be stimulated again at the next meal.
Click to expand...
Let's revisit this at the end of the log.
I've taken Alot of guys from 155 - 175 up into the 250lean ranges.
For now I think we will remove fruit as it's a high sugar source.
Veggies yes. Fruit no.
Maybe whey protein or casein with proper prebiotic but yogurt, milk, cheese, no. And currently he is taking in a ton of dairy to reach his goals.
This is extremely irritating to most people's gi tract and causes unwanted inflammation. We want less irritation and. Inflammation not more.

The key to formulating a diet for someone is of course knowing all of the nuances of the current diet first. This way we are not just making wild guesses and assumptions and therefore making inaccurate statements and decisions.

And finally I know dozens of Ifbb pros. Not one eats 4 meals.
That's part of the problem. Try eating 4x 2k+ cal meals.. Your stomach and gi tract will be so taxed you'll want to do nothing but puke and poop. And be in pain in between. It's hard to consistently increase cals.
In my opinion it's the hardest part of bodybuilding and the main obstacle.

Even dieting meals are 6 to 7.
This makes eating more manageable. And less stressful on your psyche. And intestinal tract.
 
brundel said:
Let's revisit this at the end of the log.
I've taken Alot of guys from 155 - 175 up into the 250lean ranges.
For now I think we will remove fruit as it's a high sugar source.
Veggies yes. Fruit no.
Maybe whey protein or casein with proper prebiotic but yogurt, milk, cheese, no. And currently he is taking in a ton of dairy to reach his goals.
This is extremely irritating to most people's gi tract and causes unwanted inflammation. We want less irritation and. Inflammation not more.

The key to formulating a diet for someone is of course knowing all of the nuances of the current diet first. This way we are not just making wild guesses and assumptions and therefore making inaccurate statements and decisions.

And finally I know dozens of Ifbb pros. Not one eats 4 meals.
That's part of the problem. Try eating 4x 2k+ cal meals.. Your stomach and gi tract will be so taxed you'll want to do nothing but puke and poop. And be in pain in between. It's hard to consistently increase cals.
In my opinion it's the hardest part of bodybuilding and the main obstacle.

Even dieting meals are 6 to 7.
This makes eating more manageable. And less stressful on your psyche. And intestinal tract.
Click to expand...
So vegetables are ok now? Didn’t you just say cut out sweet potatoes? Also, you corrected yourself just now, but until I pointed it out for you to clarify, your comment could only have been taken to mean no whey protein, since it is dairy. I’m not the one making “inaccurate statements,” you were. You clarified it now, so that’s cool.

4x 2k+ cal meals? When did OP say he’s aiming for 8k calories?


Also, I clearly said 5-6 meals is plenty. Where you got 4 from responding to my post I have no idea. 4K cal from 5-6 meals is 667-800 calories. Even at 5k cal it’s <1k cal/meal. Your 2k number is so irrelevant. What an IFBB pro does is irrelevant here. OP is not nearly as muscular or even as heavy as an IFBB pro, no offense to him of course.
 
Resolve10 said:
So ya stuff like this is why I stopped posting so much on forums.

People online are straight delusional.

What backwards brocentric nonsense is this?

Remove fruits because sugar is messing up your gains?

Dairy is inflammatory to everyone?

You have to eat a ton of meals a day?

I feel like I got smacked into the past.

You’ve taken people from 150 to 250 “lean”? Maybe on drugs. Do you even realize how big that is? And what is “lean”?

Ifbb pros who are on stuff aren’t the same. This was a log about your natural products.

This is what I said would happen. Dude follows the advice of the supplement owner and then over a month adds a ton of fat and no more extra muscle than would probably be expected.

Then company owner comes in and says no no no it’s because you are doing it wrong. You need to cut out this stuff and make these changes that are non negotiable.

Next he’ll do this then if he doesn’t get results you’ll tell him it’s all his training.

Good luck OP and again I commend your effort to run a log based on what the community asked for but I’m out now.
Click to expand...
This. Going from 155 to 250 lean requires gear, unless you’re 6’8”, and then I doubt you started at 155 lol. Arnold competed at a lean 250. Yeah, this guy makes people look like Arnold naturally. Ok. He’s talking about what IFBB pros do to a natural guy with sub 16” arms. How about we recommend Arnold’s double split for OP while we’re at it.
 
brundel said:
I think we have too many cooks in the kitchen here. As the OP cannot follow advice from a dozen people it makes more sense to just allow him to follow the prescribed path.
1. Everyone is different biologically. If the 100 cals per week seems like its too much, your struggling to consume it, gaining fat to rapidly. Drop the overall increase. And, Or stay stagnant for a couple of weeks to allow the body to adjust. Some guys can easily handle 100 added cals per week. Some cant.
My suggestion is stay where you are for at least 2 weeks then adjust.
2. Calorie structure is important here. If you are rapidly gaining bodyfat and your cardio is at max capacity then you need to adjust the composition of the cals.

A. cut 100% of sugar sources. 24 hours daily. Carbs yes, sugar no. So like brown rice ok. Sweet potato no.
B. Cut all Dairy
C. Increase protein to a min of 2g per lb of PROJECTED bodyweight. So if we are aiming for 200lbs eat 400 g.
D. Decrease overall carbs and increase fats. We want to see a 30% min drop in carbs.
E. Make sure you have a good fiber supp, pro and pre biotics help as well. Because the body is taking on alot of food you need to make sure the GI tract is working at 110%. Clear it out and keep things oiled and running smoothly.
F. Try to split meals for more frequent but smaller. So if your at 5 meals go to 7 or 8. YEs its a pain in the ass but keep in mind the goal here. If at the end you have gains 25-30lbs with 30% of the gain being fat this is a MAJOR gain. Its not gonna be easy and just like cutting/dieting its gonna take sacrifice. The number one reason why we see so many guys who are sub 200lbs but spend decades in the gym is they dont eat enough. Its a major stretch on the stomach and gi tract. Spreading the meals out will help. In fact it might make sense to do a mid sleep shake. I used to do a meal right before bed, a shake at 3am and a meal at 8am.

We talked about progressive calories and progressive training but this is not to be done in an unintelligent or unguided way. Those who are saying just keep doing whatever are either hoping for you to fail or not thinking things through.

Take a break on the increase. Apply the principals above and we will revisit in a week.
I have structured bulks and cuts and contest preps for hundreds of guys and girls. Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed the path but not once is this done in a cookie cutter fashion as this is pretty much guaranteed to fail. Adjust, assess, adjust over and over for best results.
Click to expand...

Wait, no sweet potato? Why? Do you realize how difficult it is to eat clean and get to 4500 calories a day? Are you advocating for maltodextrin or waxy maize to help him meet his carb macros? If yes, then why no to sweet potatoes (the minimal natural sugar in it is absolutely fine)? If no, he’s going to be one bloated mofo eating 450 grams of brown rice and oats every day.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
So vegetables are ok now? Didn’t you just say cut out sweet potatoes? Also, you corrected yourself just now, but until I pointed it out for you to clarify, your comment could only have been taken to mean no whey protein, since it is dairy. I’m not the one making “inaccurate statements,” you were. You clarified it now, so that’s cool.

4x 2k+ cal meals? When did OP say he’s aiming for 8k calories?


Also, I clearly said 5-6 meals is plenty. Where you got 4 from responding to my post I have no idea. 4K cal from 5-6 meals is 667-800 calories. Even at 5k cal it’s <1k cal/meal. Your 2k number is so irrelevant. What an IFBB pro does is irrelevant here. OP is not nearly as muscular or even as heavy as an IFBB pro, no offense to him of course.
Click to expand...

If your going to be a child Ill just put you on mute. So grow the f up and participate in an intelligent manner. No belligerent posts if you dont mind.
Dont waste my time or the time of everyone following this thread by muddling it up with nonsense and trolls.

For example your implying that me saying someone should cut out sweet potatoes means they should cut out all veggies?
Really?
Anything you say after that is going to be hard to take for face value.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
This. Going from 155 to 250 lean requires gear, unless you’re 6’8”, and then I doubt you started at 155 lol. Arnold competed at a lean 250. Yeah, this guy makes people look like Arnold naturally. Ok. He’s talking about what IFBB pros do to a natural guy with sub 16” arms. How about we recommend Arnold’s double split for OP while we’re at it.
Click to expand...

Arnold competed at 220 -235
 
brundel said:
If your going to be a child Ill just put you on mute. So grow the f up and participate in an intelligent manner. No belligerent posts if you dont mind.
Dont waste my time or the time of everyone following this thread by muddling it up with nonsense and trolls.

For example your implying that me saying someone should cut out sweet potatoes means they should cut out all veggies?
Really?
Anything you say after that is going to be hard to take for face value.
Click to expand...
You told him not to have any dairy. The only logical conclusion would be no whey. So my pointing it out leading to you clarifying WAS productive. Also, sweet potatoes have less sugar than many vegetables, and it itself is also a vegetable. You said to cut out ALL sugar sources, which irrefutably includes vegetables, and then specified sweet potatoes. You didn’t say “except vegetables” until I commented. So, again, my post WAS useful.

Your post went from no whey and no vegetables (or literally any sugar) to whey is ok and so are vegetables. If you think my post was childish and not intelligent, well, you must have an amazing view from that glass house of yours.
 
I have been eating a lot of dairy. Cottage cheese and 0 percent Greek yogurt. Along with drinking faire life skim milk. I was doing it to hit the high protein numbers. I also have been eating a lot of mixed berries and bananas . I was only concerned with end of day macros, I didn’t realize this stuff made a difference
 
pfresh said:
I have been eating a lot of dairy. Cottage cheese and 0 percent Greek yogurt. Along with drinking faire life skim milk. I was doing it to hit the high protein numbers. I also have been eating a lot of mixed berries and bananas . I was only concerned with end of day macros, I didn’t realize this stuff made a difference
Click to expand...
If you aren’t feeling like crap, or having an upset stomach, or sinus issues from the dairy, it’s likely not an issue really. Also, bananas and mixed berries are objectively very good for you. No need to eliminate them at all. Don’t listen to the nonsense that is being recommended to you. You’re not an IFBB pro on AAS trying to get in shape for a competition.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
If you aren’t feeling like crap, or having an upset stomach, or sinus issues from the dairy, it’s likely not an issue really. Also, bananas and mixed berries are objectively very good for you. No need to eliminate them at all. Don’t listen to the nonsense that is being recommended to you. You’re not an IFBB pro on AAS trying to get in shape for a competition.
Click to expand...

Well, berries have a plethora of benefits as well outside of providing micronutrients~ fruits in general. IMO, they stay.
 
tyga tyga said:
Well, berries have a plethora of benefits as well outside of providing micronutrients~ fruits in general. IMO, they stay.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree. If you’re deep into a cut you have to weigh out how many calories/carbs you want to allocate to them, but on a 4k cal diet, you have MORE than enough room to have a good amount of them. I really don’t get the advice given to him. It’s asinine.
 
tyga tyga said:
Well, berries have a plethora of benefits as well outside of providing micronutrients~ fruits in general. IMO, they stay.
Click to expand...

Benefits of Berries & Fruits:
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Fruits also improve glucose intoerlance and improve lipids
Invalid Link Removed

Improve your cholesterol levels
Invalid Link Removed

Improve insulin sensitivity
Invalid Link Removed

Improve anti-diabetic statistics in humans
Invalid Link Removed

Help improve fatloss
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

But .... just because it has sugar you should not eat
Let alone its full of micronutrients, vitamins, and minerals

Lets compare a 200 pound natural to an IFBB Pro who is juicing and taking so many anabolics. This is a log about a natural trainee taking a natural product. We are not talking about IFBB Pro's, people who spend $1,000's on cycles and have a far enhanced P-Ratio
--- apples to oranges ---

Let us say to lay off the dairy, but then suggest a whey/casein protein powder
-- Take makes 0 sense because that is what whey/casein are made up of --

Let us drop sweet potatoes because they are loaded with vitamins C, fiber, potassium and B vitamins
-- Makes 0 sense since they are far more micronutrient then brown rice will ever be which is micronutrient void --

OP Is eating 4,000 calories, why would you compare him to IFBB Pro's eating 4 - 2,000 calorie meals. Makes 0 sense and has no relevance to this thread

Let us compare more apples to oranges
 
MyFitnessPal name is pfresh88 If anyone wants to see my food diary. I have been eating a lot of dairy but I tend to stick to lactose free. I can cut this and the fruit out next week though.
 
Man, I don't have much time for this forum lately...but this thread is a gold mine.

The reason most guys on here are under 200 after years of training is they don't eat enough.

I have taken a bunch of guys from 150 to 250.

Then someone states Arnold was 250 and the counter is...he was 235!!??? Yeah...he wasn't even that. You have made a bunch of people bigger than Arnold?

Well, this gets back to the original statement about people under 200. The reason people are under 200 with years of training is because they aren't on gear. John Grimmek was 180 pounds and he was the best bodybuilder in the world and had above average genetics to say the least. He may have been natural, but even thar is not 100% for certain. I guess he didn't eat enough?

And 7-8 meals totaling 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. This sounds great on the surface but it will certainly down regulate the mtor response to protein intake. Of course...no big deal if you have a higher protein synthesis rate because you are geared up and all.

But IFBB pros do it all the time...they aren't geared up...oh. wait. Nevermind.

I hate to argue but this advice sounds like advice from someone who has given a lot of advice to people who are on enough gear to get results regardless of if the advice was the best available.
 
The Solution said:
Benefits of Berries & Fruits:
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

Fruits also improve glucose intoerlance and improve lipids
Invalid Link Removed

Improve your cholesterol levels
Invalid Link Removed

Improve insulin sensitivity
Invalid Link Removed

Improve anti-diabetic statistics in humans
Invalid Link Removed

Help improve fatloss
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

But .... just because it has sugar you should not eat
Let alone its full of micronutrients, vitamins, and minerals

Lets compare a 200 pound natural to an IFBB Pro who is juicing and taking so many anabolics. This is a log about a natural trainee taking a natural product. We are not talking about IFBB Pro's, people who spend $1,000's on cycles and have a far enhanced P-Ratio
--- apples to oranges ---

Let us say to lay off the dairy, but then suggest a whey/casein protein powder
-- Take makes 0 sense because that is what whey/casein are made up of --

Let us drop sweet potatoes because they are loaded with vitamins C, fiber, potassium and B vitamins
-- Makes 0 sense since they are far more micronutrient then brown rice will ever be which is micronutrient void --

OP Is eating 4,000 calories, why would you compare him to IFBB Pro's eating 4 - 2,000 calorie meals. Makes 0 sense and has no relevance to this thread

Let us compare more apples to oranges
Click to expand...

Come on now. You took the time to post all those studies...which no one will read (myself included) because the volume is overwhelming, and I bet there are hundreds more. You didn't even scratch the surface!

I mean, you could probably find 100 studies on blueberries and then 100 on cranberries, etc. The phytochemicals are unbelievable.

But maybe Brundel is right. Phytochemicals don't do much for you at all. You know, like ursolic acid, ferulic acid, myrecitin, etc.

Wait...if Phytochemicals aren't important...what about the ingredients in Vector? Oh, yeah...no sugar.
 
HIT4ME said:
Come on now. You took the time to post all those studies...which no one will read (myself included) because the volume is overwhelming, and I bet there are hundreds more. You didn't even scratch the surface!

I mean, you could probably find 100 studies on blueberries and then 100 on cranberries, etc. The phytochemicals are unbelievable.

But maybe Brundel is right. Phytochemicals don't do much for you at all. You know, like ursolic acid, ferulic acid, myrecitin, etc.

Wait...if Phytochemicals aren't important...what about the ingredients in Vector? Oh, yeah...no sugar.
Click to expand...
Invalid Link Removed
 
I think we can all agree that what I am doing right now is not working. My ever expanding waist line is proof of that. I feel like that dreamer bulk kid from back in the day minus the dreamer bulk foods. So I will take brundel advice and change the macros around. (Lower carbs increase fats). I will also cut out diary and fruits . At the end of this log if we haven’t turned things around and I’ve turned into the blob I could run a cutting log, if enough people would be interested in seeing that.
 
pfresh said:
I think we can all agree that what I am doing right now is not working. My ever expanding waist line is proof of that. I feel like that dreamer bulk kid from back in the day minus the dreamer bulk foods. So I will take brundel advice and change the macros around. (Lower carbs increase fats). I will also cut out diary and fruits . At the end of this log if we haven’t turned things around and I’ve turned into the blob I could run a cutting log, if enough people would be interested in seeing that.
Click to expand...
You do you, but literally no one except him has said it’s a good idea, and several people have said it’s a laughably bad idea. Resolve called it:
Resolve10 said:
...This is what I said would happen. Dude follows the advice of the supplement owner and then over a month adds a ton of fat and no more extra muscle than would probably be expected.

Then company owner comes in and says no no no it’s because you are doing it wrong. You need to cut out this stuff and make these changes that are non negotiable.

Next he’ll do this then if he doesn’t get results you’ll tell him it’s all his training.

Good luck OP and again I commend your effort to run a log based on what the community asked for but I’m out now.
Click to expand...
Eating fruit on a bulk isn’t responsible for you packing on more fat than you like. Also, if you rely heavily on dairy for your protein intake, are you prepared to majorly overhaul your diet?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You do you, but literally no one except him has said it’s a good idea, and several people have said it’s a laughably bad idea. Resolve called it:

Eating fruit on a bulk isn’t responsible for you packing on more fat than you like. Also, if you rely heavily on dairy for your protein intake, are you prepared to majorly overhaul your diet?
Click to expand...

For the duration of the log yes, I am willing to change my diet completely. I do not mean to offend anyone by not taking their advice. This is a log on the supplement he created, so I will follow the advice he gives to hopefully get the results.
 
pfresh said:
For the duration of the log yes, I am willing to change my diet completely. I do not mean to offend anyone by not taking their advice. This is a log on the supplement he created, so I will follow the advice he gives to hopefully get the results.
Click to expand...
Ok. You do you, but don’t be surprised when what resolve said would happen (and is happening) happens, and there’s a new “reason” (excuse) for why you didn’t get the results expected after you make these changes. And I don’t think anyone will be offended for you not following their advice, we’re just trying to help you not waste your time and effort. If anything, many fruits have anti-obesity effects.
 
You literally have been doing what brundel suggested and what bigsmalls (?) suggested as well, to a T with NO deviations. Now that what they’ve mentioned isn’t producing the effects/results they said it would, everyone is back pedaling.

Follow DC training
Eat in a minor surplus and keep ramping
Keep cardio
Do the stretches
Beat previous rep/weight ranges
Sleep x amount

Now, the results aren’t yielding what was claimed and now it’s, “do this instead because this isn’t working”.

This is insane. Good luck dude
 
tyga tyga said:
You literally have been doing what brundel suggested and what bigsmalls (?) suggested as well, to a T. Now, that what they’ve said isn’t matching the effects they originally would produce, everyone is back pedaling.

Follow DC training
Eat in a minor surplus and keep ramping
Keep cardio
Do the stretches
Beat previous rep/weight ranges

Now, the results aren’t yielding what was claimed and now it’s, “do this instead because this isn’t working”.

This is insane. Good luck dude
Click to expand...
This. If his advice didn’t work, you should stop listening to him, not double down on his last-minute on the fly MAJOR changes. You shouldn’t have to overhaul your entire diet this late in the game. That is indicative of poor planning earlier. Tweaking is one thing; this is not that. Fruits aren’t making you put on too much fat; too high of a caloric surplus is. You’re probably not overeating calories on fruits lol.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
This. If his advice didn’t work, you should stop listening to him, not double down on his last-minute on the fly MAJOR changes. You shouldn’t have to overhaul your entire diet this late in the game. That is indicative of poor planning earlier. Tweaking is one thing; this is not that. Fruits aren’t making you put on too much fat; too high of a caloric surplus is. You’re probably not overeating calories on fruits lol.
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This. Macros don't make you fat. Caloric intake does.

He is telling you to eat 7-8 meals a day. When questioned he states that you can't eat enough if you are only taking in 5 meals or whatever...but then you are saying you are getting fatter. If you were saying you couldn't gain any weight and were still thin..not getting stronger, etc. - I would say sure, add a meal or two. But the approach being employed is like having a solution to a problem before you have even listened to the question/problem.

You cannot gain fat unless you have a caloric surplus. Rearranging portions of that surplus will have maybe a 2% impact.

Btw - even fat gain can help you get stronger. Look at power lifters. You eat a ton, then come back and say you put 30 pounds on your bench and everyone says - there is solid proof with objective numbers! And Vector did it! And...you are a blob who gained minimal muscle.
 
pfresh said:
For the duration of the log yes, I am willing to change my diet completely. I do not mean to offend anyone by not taking their advice. This is a log on the supplement he created, so I will follow the advice he gives to hopefully get the results.
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You are doing GREAT. You are willing to listen and learn and work hard. You are doing whatever it takes. I respect you for that, I believe we all do.

I disagree with the advice you are being given. That doesn't make me right - you have to decide who you want to listen to and what makes sense to you. This is YOU and your body and your goals. These are YOUR choices. And I respect the work you are putting in.

I believe we are just laying out counter arguments to hopefully show another side.
 
Didn’t I say this at the beginning when he moved 3% BF upward! And everyone said, follow the protocol he was set to do. Keep your gains bro and eating in minor surplus or at maintenance.

Oh wait.. Is he a non-responder now? That could solve the mystery of OP gaining fat. We have seen people saying “oh.. he is a non responder”.
 
jtmass said:
Didn’t I say this at the beginning when he moved 3% BF upward! And everyone said, follow the protocol he was set to do. Keep your gains bro and eating in minor surplus or at maintenance.

Oh wait.. Is he a non-responder now? That could solve the mystery of OP gaining fat. We have seen people saying “oh.. he is a non responder”.
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If by “non-responder” to the outlined protocol apparently intended for IFBB pros you mean non-juicer I agree with you. ;)
 
I feel like "non-responder" is a cop out. Everyone wants to believe they are unique and different - and we all have variations and differences. But the VAST majority of our biology is the same. How many non-responders are there to testosterone? They are fewer, by far, then the responders.

Same with creatine.

But with most supplements...having 75% non-responders and 25% responders is fine. Everyone is different.

This isn't geared toward everyone..I just have a lot of pet peeves with bodybuilding dogma that makes sense on the surface but doesn't hold up to critical thought.
 
I have been following this log and it’s very interesting to Me,because I will be starting Vector, this Monday.
 
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