vAliant Anabolic Androgenic Archive: TD Superdrol and DMZ

[ValiantThor08]

fantastic log, thank you!!!

Thank you, and of course @delsolrob

 

[ValiantThor08]

And of course @Hyde

 

[Nac]

I have always found the concept of a “kick-in” time to be radically uneducated. The hormones are affecting your body literally as soon as they are released. So an oral often takes about an hour to hit peak levels in the blood (depending on what was in your stomach prior to ingestion) and an oil with an ester has to break free of that, but once it’s circulating it can bind to receptors and cause expression.

Strength and muscle tissue take some time to accrue to a noticeable degree, and stronger compounds and doses will work faster for a user to see results, but EVERYTHING is working as soon as it’s released. Epistane takes longer to see gains than Superdrol because it’s a weaker anabolic. But it’s building immediately.

Side effects like back pumps do not mean it’s just now working. It just means your hydration levels are more fucked now than they were prior

You heard of Broderick Chavez?

 

[ValiantThor08]

You heard of Broderick Chavez?

I have not.

 

[Hyde]

You heard of Broderick Chavez?

Yeah, Team Evil GSP. Guy knows a lot of great info about performance enhancement (with an eye towards health), and makes it easier to digest in a useable fashion. I have considered paying the $10/month to join his pay site because his free content showing him answer the customer Q&A is so crazy informative.

 

[Nac]

Yeah, Team Evil GSP. Guy knows a lot of great info about performance enhancement (with an eye towards health), and makes it easier to digest in a useable fashion. I have considered paying the $10/month to join his pay site because his free content showing him answer the customer Q&A is so crazy informative.

Have you watched any of his instagram live Q&As? He is ruthless if asked anything he considers remotely broish in nature. Im a fan, but my criticism would be he is very narrow in what he considers relevant and effective, for example he puts absolutely no stock in supplements whatsoever. Which is fine, he explicitly states he is a drug man. I think I find myself drawn to him due to this, and his promotion of lowest effective dosing, and straight-talking "commonsense" approach.

I thought it was interesting, when asked how long someone should run an oral for, his "formula" was bodyweight (kilograms) = days dosing. So, 100kg = 100 days. His only exception to this was superdrol.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Have you watched any of his instagram live Q&As? He is ruthless if asked anything he considers remotely broish in nature. Im a fan, but my criticism would be he is very narrow in what he considers relevant and effective, for example he puts absolutely no stock in supplements whatsoever. Which is fine, he explicitly states he is a drug man. I think I find myself drawn to him due to this, and his promotion of lowest effective dosing, and straight-talking "commonsense" approach.

I thought it was interesting, when asked how long someone should run an oral for, his "formula" was bodyweight (kilograms) = days dosing. So, 100kg = 100 days. His only exception to this was superdrol.

I can see no need for supplements if one is on TRT. But as for me, no TRT, supplements are supplemental lol.

 

[Nac]

I can see no need for supplements if one is on TRT. But as for me, no TRT, supplements are supplemental lol.

Sure, possibly. I mean Id never tell someone on TRT who isnt taking supps and who isnt having "issues" that they need to be taking X, Y or Z supplement just cos. I guess it can come down to your philosophy and how you see supplements, which is prone to change over time (for example, I can certainly see the allure of some supplements which may, depending on the user, be entirely "preventative" in their nature...and how much preventative can come down to faith in efficacy. But if it gives you some peace of mind, why not?)

 

[ValiantThor08]

Sure, possibly. I mean Id never tell someone on TRT who isnt taking supps and who isnt having "issues" that they need to be taking X, Y or Z supplement just cos. I guess it can come down to your philosophy and how you see supplements, which is prone to change over time (for example, I can certainly see the allure of some supplements which may, depending on the user, be entirely "preventative" in their nature...and how much preventative can come down to faith in efficacy. But if it gives you some peace of mind, why not?)

Completely understand.

 

[Hyde]

Have you watched any of his instagram live Q&As? He is ruthless if asked anything he considers remotely broish in nature. Im a fan, but my criticism would be he is very narrow in what he considers relevant and effective, for example he puts absolutely no stock in supplements whatsoever. Which is fine, he explicitly states he is a drug man. I think I find myself drawn to him due to this, and his promotion of lowest effective dosing, and straight-talking "commonsense" approach.

I thought it was interesting, when asked how long someone should run an oral for, his "formula" was bodyweight (kilograms) = days dosing. So, 100kg = 100 days. His only exception to this was superdrol.

I don’t wanna derail this great log so I will try to keep this semi-related hopefully.

Broderick is a powerlifter, and has successfully guided the enhancement of many power & weightlifters for a long time. He’s old, crotchety, very experienced, and this makes him opinionated and quick to cut to the crux of an issue. For the most part, I agree with him: anything that can produce pronounced physiological changes is by legal definition a drug. So the only supplements an enhanced athlete should be taking should should be “supplements” that are in effect drugs (or things to address dietary or bloodwork insufficiencies).

NAC raises/maintains glutathione levels (glutathione is a drug). TUDCA is literally the drug UDCA with a taurine group added so it can get sold as a supplement. There is mounting clinical evidence in things like Curcumin and Nattokinase that point towards them being effective drug treatments for certain health conditions. Peptides cannot be patented as drugs, or they certainly would be. Carditone can drop my blood pressure by 10+ points, and it’s illegal in Australia and some places. Berberine is more effective that Metformin and via completely different MOA. These supplements are really drugs in efficacy. Caffeine is a terrific drug sold as a supplement.

His stance on many things is, “Is this better than things we already know that work?” Is there any reason for an enhanced athlete to buy testosterone boosters when a single $40 vial of testosterone used in the next blast will blow the doors off the total net mass he will hold at the end of the year using the androgens instead? Something that has been studied for decades at that?

Now, there are exceptions of course. Creatine is a tremendous resource for a strength athlete. Choline products like Alpha GPC and things like Phosphatidylserine are great strength agents regardless of being enhanced or not. But you get the gist of the idea.

 

[Rad83]

@Hyde What is it about Carditone that makes it so great, I’m just not sure by looking at the ingredients? It has a great rep. I might consider it, for my next cycle, thanks bro

 

[manifesto]

They do; you just have to find a UGL carrying it. It was popular enough that you can still get raws from China. Used it last fall.

I thought i remember you saying you were not impressed with it....

 

[Hyde]

@Hyde What is it about Carditone that makes it so great, I’m just not sure by looking at the ingredients? It has a great rep. I might consider it, for my next cycle, thanks bro

No idea why it works. I thought the same thing when I saw the hodgepodge Ayurveda formula. Probably arjuna at least. But for most people, it seems to lower bp. I get effects at even half a tab and never need more than 1.

You need to have a home bp machine and appropriate size cuff to be using that stuff safely. But that’s kind of PED best practice anyway. ~$100 on Amazon.

I thought i remember you saying you were not impressed with it....

Better size drug than strength drug in my opinion. DMZ makes me stronger, Phera makes me bigger. It’s the better bodybuilding oral. Also you tend to feel better on Phera. Better energy, mood, libido. DMZ is sucksville.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Seeing as DMZ has a 16 hour half life, approximately. I think I will dose for the last time tomorrow. I'm worn out. Urine is darker, even though hydrated. I'm grumpy too easily. Dose last HCG Wednesday, and start Clomid Wednesday as well, just to get good clomid plasma levels by the time the HCG is out of system. Ready to be done.

 

[Hyde]

Seeing as DMZ has a 16 hour half life, approximately. I think I will dose for the last time tomorrow. I'm worn out. Urine is darker, even though hydrated. I'm grumpy too easily. Dose last HCG Wednesday, and start Clomid Wednesday as well, just to get good clomid plasma levels by the time the HCG is out of system. Ready to be done.

You had a very effective run. Like a great evening, it ends best when you know when to call it a night

 

[Rad83]

Please keep us informed of your post cycle, which I hope goes smooth!

 

[ValiantThor08]

Please keep us informed of your post cycle, which I hope goes smooth!

Yeah, going to keep this going. Body scans, and all through PCT, and beyond.

 

[ValiantThor08]

You had a very effective run. Like a great evening, it ends best when you know when to call it a night

Yeah, when body says please stop, you better stop.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Blood Sugar, hour post workout, 69ng/dl

Even with a glass of coke pre workout.

Will test tomorrow 30min post workout.

See how I can time the Viking 1 peptide combo to get maximum GH output potential post workout, which will also give quite the appetite boost post workout.

 

[ValiantThor08]

4 eggs on toast, and pancakes coming up. What a difference it makes not to have a pre workout with yohimbine. Didn't realize how much of an appetite I would have to just have caffeine as morning stim.

 

[Hyde]

That glass of coke preWO isn’t hanging around for more than 30 minutes probably. By the time you are in the weeds of training it’s already gone.

 

[ValiantThor08]

That glass of coke preWO isn’t hanging around for more than 30 minutes probably. By the time you are in the weeds of training it’s already gone.

Figured. More or less trying to gauge if my insulin levels are low post workout, for the purpose of peptide injection timing. My thoughts are, if glucose is low, Insulin should be low.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Here is some great BPC content, if you'd like to know some potential for the peptide.

 

[thebigt]

4 eggs on toast, and pancakes coming up. What a difference it makes not to have a pre workout with yohimbine. Didn't realize how much of an appetite I would have to just have caffeine as morning stim.View attachment 198660

i gotta have runny eggs!!!!

 

[ValiantThor08]

Started PCT today.

No DMZ taken today
50mg Clomid (get plasma levels up for seamless LH production after HCG clears body)
Finished off last of HCG (DMZ still clearing body)
Took some aromasin to reduce E2.
Started Viking1 Peptide (will take post workout, and pre lunch, and will last 30 days)

According to scans, about 9 pound skeletal lean mass increase.

Approximately 5 pound reduction in fat mass.
Approximately 3 to 4 percent body fat percentage reduction.

Here is beginning, and end scans. Will continue scans. Appetite is up a lot now. I am optimistic, and desire to improve lean mass in an upwards trend over PCT, and beyond.

 

[ValiantThor08]

I had a push workout today. Without training for strength, or healing necessarily, in the beginning I could not bench even 185 due to shoulder pain. Today was my third time flat bench pressing, and did 5x5 225. Could of done more reps, but do not want to get ahead of myself, just to go backwards.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Day 38 Ultra Hard (Was Monday, and had 1.5 pumps that day) Final Review

I started off doing 5 pumps. After a few days, or maybe longer, dropped down to 3 pumps, which for me, appeared to be more than sufficient. Basically, in my opinion, you get much bang for your buck. If I were to do a solo run, I would order two bottles, and run 5 pumps per day. I did 3 pumps to be very complimentary with the DMZ cycle I was running. DMZ being very anabolic, and not very androgenic. Ultra Hard being very androgenic, and not as anabolic. That is what I mean when I say complimentary; it is synergistic. The smell has a mild alcohol smell. It dissipates quickly, and does not leave a lingering scent. It goes on smooth, and leaves a mild shimmer on the skin, as it gets absorbed throughout the day. I applied to the same areas every morning, around the same time. It dried completely between 2 and 3 minutes, and applying to the same are of skin, it did not leave my skin dry or ashy. From the first day I utilized the product, my well being, and libido was improved. After a few days of using the product, it began to dry me out, and I looked dryer as I continued to use the product, up until the very end. While on DMZ, I had a very wet, and bloated look, but after a few days of Ultra Hard, and throughout the bottle, my skin and muscle had a dry and clay like appearance. Muscle striations improved almost daily throughout the cycle. Aggression was also a side effect that I noticed almost immediately after beginning to use Ultra Hard, and that continued also throughout the whole bottle; DHT conversion is great with androsterone and epi androsterone, in the Iconic transdermal formula. When you use Andros, you want to use a transdermal, and I really enjoy Iconic Formulations transdermal formulas, and their applicators. The pump applicator itself is easy to use, intuitive, and gets practically all the product out of the bottle with ease. My body fat percentage beginning of cycle was around 14 percent, and toward the end of cycle was around 11 percent, with approximately a 9 pound increase in skeletal muscle; this shown on weekly body scans, and the mirror. I did not diet, I did not reduce calories, I had soda, candy, lots of simple sugars, and the Ultra Hard did a great job at burning fat; result of increased DHT. There was mild hair shedding, something I am prone to, but based on visual, my hair line has not receded. I did not train for strength, yet the weights felt lighter by the week. I had never run an Andro before, and honestly did not think I ever would; my thoughts on it prior to the run was "snake oil", but my mind has been pleasantly changed, and it has me interested in their other line of transdermal Andros! This really interests me because it gives me the opportunity to run a more mild cycle in the future, as opposed to a methylated compound like DMZ, which will result in me feeling better over all, with a much easier recovery. If you have never tried Epi Andro and Androsterone, this is a winner, to run solo, or to add to a steroid you may be taking that is a lot more anabolic than androgenic. You may be like me before I tried this, and think poorly of Andros, but hopefully, you read this, and see my logs, and it musters up a desire to give them a try.

If there was a 1 out of 10 scale, I would give Ultra Hard a 10 out of 10.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Will try to document recovery well.

This Pull workout was great this morning. Yes, I felt tired waking up, but was a great workout. Pumps great. Vascularity great. Strength great. Still looking great in the mirror. Testes were more plump than yesterday. If that doesn't change, it shows you how great it is to utilize HCG on cycle, as opposed to using it. A long with the clomid, cardarine, and peptides, I am taking the new experimental BLR natural anabolic. I'm ready to make me a robust breakfast soon, and had injected my peptides about 20 minutes ago.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Breakfast was 4 eggs, 4 pieces of toast, 2 sausage patties topped with maple syrup.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Lunch. Let's keep the momentum. I'm apparently feeling better because it's easier to post more.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Very happy with leg day in PCT.
733 leg press. Full ROM. Long legs. More than while I was on DMZ. Sleep was great last night. I actually woke up feeling good. A few morning wood incidents in the early morning as well. Guys, if you see this. Use HCG even on an 8 week oral cycle.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Let's go for 753. Why not.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Video of 733, 8 reps

 

[Hyde]

I think that’s the same legpress I use. I like it when it doesn’t squeak

I am usually just as strong the week or two after a cycle FWIW.

 

[ValiantThor08]

I think that’s the same legpress I use. I like it when it doesn’t squeak

I am usually just as strong the week or two after a cycle FWIW.

Do you end up going backwards after the two weeks lol?

 

[Hyde]

Do you end up going backwards after the two weeks lol?

Do you really want to know that answer yet? Lol

The answer is yes, always, by a significant margin. The backslide begins weeks 3-6, but by week 7 it’s obvious there’s a significant disparity that only continues the longer I am off. Especially in strength, more so than bodyweight. You tend to look softer & fatter at similar bodyweights.

But I might be further past my genetic limit than you, so do not think that it will be as bad for you.

 

[CroLifter]

Very happy with leg day in PCT.
733 leg press. Full ROM. Long legs. More than while I was on DMZ. Sleep was great last night. I actually woke up feeling good. A few morning wood incidents in the early morning as well. Guys, if you see this. Use HCG even on an 8 week oral cycle.

I am a firm believer in:

1) Hcg being a priority always use it before starting a serm

2) Knocking down estro with aromasin before serms leave the system

I dont even think you need to run serms that long, just kickstart the hypothalamus and thats it. After that, preventing estro from enforcing negative feedback is the key, so essentially if you kinda crash on e2 with asin you are getting similar results to using clomid


I only did 2 weeks of clomid after this cycle, last 60mg test inject was 7 weeks ago, i stopped clomid 3 weeks ago.

I honestly feel really good. Energy is good, i am productive, even waking up with morning wood sometimes and libido is actually present, and both of these things were completely lacking on cycle, i guess tren and mk677 are to blame, both are known to phuk with libido.

All in all i feel much better than before the cycle, i know its due to the pct drugs and crash awaits me soon, but at least i am enjoying a period of feeling good.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Do you really want to know that answer yet? Lol

The answer is yes, always, by a significant margin. The backslide begins weeks 3-6, but by week 7 it’s obvious there’s a significant disparity that only continues the longer I am off. Especially in strength, more so than bodyweight. You tend to look softer & fatter at similar bodyweights.

But I might be further past my genetic limit than you, so do not think that it will be as bad for you.

I remember in the past when I cycled test and orals together. The strength I gained was unparalleled. Moving up to 405 squat. Bench 225 almost 25 reps easy. A week or two after cycle, extreme drop off. I'm hopeful that because I have not seen such an extreme strength increase like I did in the past, what I may experience this time may be negligible. So everyone take the next week or two with a grain of salt. Guess the rubber meets the road week 3 and beyond

 

[ValiantThor08]

I am a firm believer in:

1) Hcg being a priority always use it before starting a serm

2) Knocking down estro with aromasin before serms leave the system

I dont even think you need to run serms that long, just kickstart the hypothalamus and thats it. After that, preventing estro from enforcing negative feedback is the key, so essentially if you kinda crash on e2 with asin you are getting similar results to using clomid


I only did 2 weeks of clomid after this cycle, last 60mg test inject was 7 weeks ago, i stopped clomid 3 weeks ago.

I honestly feel really good. Energy is good, i am productive, even waking up with morning wood sometimes and libido is actually present, and both of these things were completely lacking on cycle, i guess tren and mk677 are to blame, both are known to phuk with libido.

All in all i feel much better than before the cycle, i know its due to the pct drugs and crash awaits me soon, but at least i am enjoying a period of feeling good.

I'll think about not running clomid for 4 weeks

 

[CroLifter]

I'll think about not running clomid for 4 weeks

I mean you gotta do what works for you.

Its just that in my case if hcg is used and estro rebound is prevented with asin, minimal duration of clomid seems to be sufficient.

perhaps you need 4 weeks of clomid, i dont know that.


I am just dumbfounded by this sudden presence of libido. It seemed to have come into life after i popped few aromasin tabs after discontinuing clomid.

 

[Rad83]

Do you really want to know that answer yet? Lol

The answer is yes, always, by a significant margin. The backslide begins weeks 3-6, but by week 7 it’s obvious there’s a significant disparity that only continues the longer I am off. Especially in strength, more so than bodyweight. You tend to look softer & fatter at similar bodyweights.

But I might be further past my genetic limit than you, so do not think that it will be as bad for you.

Not the reply we want, but the one we need...”Batman has to be Bruce Wayne” sometimes

 

[Hyde]

Not the reply we want, but the one we need...”Batman has to be Bruce Wayne” sometimes

Yeah you got it. Many years ago a strongman that occasionally trained at the health club I did told me, “Never compete during PCT”

 

[ValiantThor08]

Yeah you got it. Many years ago a strongman that occasionally trained at the health club I did told me, “Never compete during PCT”

Bahahaha.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Rest Day today.

Go Insulin Sensitivity!

Around 90 to 100g carbs with breakfast. About 2 hours after eating, blood glucose around 90ng/dl.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Push Day Hi Lights

80lb dumbbell incline press
90lb dumbbell seated overhead skull crushers
Cable flies supersetted with tricep push down.

Vascularity and pumps great. Still look great. I attribute that to Viking 1 peptide combo, and the new BLR Anabolic. Keeping IGF and GH high during PCT keeps glycogen storage and nitrogen retention up, and that is very muscle sparing. Even if you don't like pinning, or doubt peptides, give real GH or GHRP2/modGRF a go just during PCT (if not on TRT), just to see how you fair.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Or frankly, give Viking 1 a run. It is BETTER than MK677.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Also cannot forgot BPC157. On day 11 of taking. 500mcg split per day.

BPC has the ability to increase growth factors, so it is synergistic with GH or GH releasing peptides; it will enhance the GH output.

DOMS

I did a lot of sets of leg press, working my way up to 753 for 8 reps. Later that day I was getting the leg muscle cramps, and I thought DOMS was going to hit hard the next day. Nope. My legs felt great! Recovery appears to still be great overall. I know, still early to be so optimistic, but optimism is better than pessimism. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Pull Day Today

Even with sub par sleep. Kept waking up in and out of sleep with a slew of dreams of people trying to kill me. Even with my straps snapping soon during the beginning of my work out. I had great weighted pull ups, and without using the straps. To me, that's great because I always use straps with back exercises, and was surprised my grip was up to par to pull up properly. Video of 10 reps, wide grip, 35lb weighted pull ups to follow. Great pull workout, and in PCT, feel good still, for now.

 

[ValiantThor08]

 

[Hyde]

I used those same straps for a long time. Got them free and they were pretty great honestly. BUT the red Cerberus ones I have now are the best I’ve had. They are wearing out fast honestly so the cost/life is bad, but they are awesome.

EliteFTS has a ton of different strap styles and they are usually super affordable. They also have great wrist wraps and all kinds of gear like bands, gym shirts, etc.