I never argued such, quote it. In fact I stated that I wasnt too convinced this WAS the case.
I said basically, the AMOUNT of ketos in 400g's of 10% is equivilant to 100g's 40% but the added benifit of having alot more of all the other portions of the entire cissus herb all the while still being cheaper to consume at that dose.
If "more ketos are better" then this is all you have to do to make up the difference in ketos and all the while its cheaper for a better all around effect.
I know you have tried primaforces, and I may agree mg/mg it may be more effective BUT I say that that same mg/mg price outweighs this benifit when taken into consideration one can dose for the most benificial aspect of the higher extract, more ketos period. 400mg of ketos is 400mg of ketos. so if I can achieve that same level for cheaper via bulk 10% extract and reap the benifit of having a shiz load more of the rest of the plant as well why not do that? So do this, get the 10% dose it mega dosed and then tell me its not a WORLD of difference over the 40% at a fraction of the dose.
ok I understand your point and if you`re
talking on the same quality of extracts its a valid one , but unfortunately I don't know if they are .
just one more note , cissus is extremely rich in calcium(one of the other components of the plant you speak off , and for people to mega dose with it to have the 40% ketos at least 3 x a day for probably all their life will increase a lot the calcium intake so I would be careful with it:
Excess calcium may increase prostate cancer risk
...this may offer a simple means to detect men who are at increased risk of fatal prostate cancer
Halcyon G. Skinner
Men who have too much calcium in their bloodstreams may have an increased risk of fatal prostate cancer, according to a new analysis from Wake Forest University School of Medicine and the University of Wisconsin.
"We show that men in upper range of the normal distribution of serum calcium subsequently have an almost three-fold increased risk for fatal prostate cancer," said Gary G. Schwartz, Ph.D., associate professor of cancer biology and of epidemiology and prevention at Wake Forest, a part of Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center. Such excess calcium can be lowered, he said.
The research appears in the September issue of Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention, a journal of the American Association for Cancer Research.
Co-author Halcyon G. Skinner of the School of Medicine and Public Health at the University of Wisconsin stressed there is "little relationship between calcium in the diet and calcium in serum. So men needn't be concerned about reducing their ordinary dietary intakes of calcium."
Schwartz and Skinner analyzed the results of 2,814 men who participated in the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES-1). Measurement of the amount of calcium in the bloodstreams was determined an average of 9.9 years before prostate cancer was diagnosed.
The researchers focused on the 85 cases of prostate cancer and 25 prostate cancer deaths among the 2,814 men and divided the group into thirds, based on the serum calcium level. "Comparing men in the top third with men in the bottom third, we found a significantly increased hazard for fatal prostate cancer.
"To our knowledge, this is the first study to examine prostate cancer risk in relation to serum calcium," Schwartz and Skinner wrote. "These results support the hypothesis that high serum calcium, or a factor strongly associated with it, such as high serum parathyroid hormone, increases the risk for fatal prostate cancer".
In an interview, Schwartz said that if the relationship between serum calcium and prostate cancer "turns out to be causal, it suggests a means for potentially reducing the risk of fatal disease through medicines that reduce serum levels of calcium and/or parathyroid hormone".
He added, "Both calcium and parathyroid hormone are known to promote the growth of prostate cancer cells in the laboratory".
Skinner said, "The take-home message is that this may offer a simple means to detect men who are at increased risk of fatal prostate cancer".
What is particularly exciting ... is that it suggests that a man may reduce his risk of fatal prostate cancer by lowering serum levels of calcium and/or parathyroid hormone
Gary G. Schwartz
Schwartz said serum calcium ordinarily is tightly regulated by parathyroid hormone, so there is little variation in an individual's serum calcium over time. "Calcium is basically the current that runs many of the functions of your body. Calcium is important for not only neuromuscular conductions, electrical conductions, but for the conduction of muscles in your heart".
Too little calcium in blood, less than 7 milligrams per deciliter, can cause uncontrolled muscular convulsions or contractions. Too much calcium, above 14 milligrams per deciliter, can cause a coma. "Your body obviously cannot afford to oscillate between convulsions and coma, so the range of serum calcium is tightly controlled".
The upper third of NHANES-1 participants had high normal calcium levels, ranging from 9.9 to 10.5 milligrams per deciliter.
"If confirmed, our study shows that calcium at the high end of normal is associated with a three-fold increased risk of fatal prostate cancer later in life," Schwartz said. But unlike well-known risk factors for prostate cancer such as age, race or family history, which cannot be altered, "a man's serum calcium levels can be".
Several drugs already used in patients with high levels of parathyroid hormone, such as patients with chronic kidney disease, could be used to reduce calcium and/or parathyroid hormone in the blood, he said.
Measurements of serum calcium are routinely collected and are part of most medical visits. Thus, a physician can readily determine whether a man's serum calcium level is at the high end of normal.
"What is particularly exciting if this study is replicated, and attempts to do so are already in progress, is that it suggests that a man may reduce his risk of fatal prostate cancer by lowering serum levels of calcium and/or parathyroid hormone," he said.
Anaesthesia UK :*Excess calcium may increase prostate cancer risk
this is what is writen on page 308-310 , may 2008 flex edition:
"Recent research performed on extracts of this plant confirm the benefits of cissus....
Chemical analysis shows that is high in vit c, carotene,calcium and phytosteroles.
The later include potent ketosterones that seem to provide the great majority of herb`s effect, such as enhancing bone reformation and preventing osteoporosis, as well as providing powerful antioxidant and bacterial benefits, and promoting fat loss
...
Luckily, a few companies offer cissus supplements....look for products that provide 1000mg of cissus standardized for ketosterones and take 1000mg before lunch and dinner"
So thanks but I dont need more of the other cissus ingridients that my diet also provides , they can even become toxic in high doses and I`m glad you say that you dont argue that:above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade
, cause that really doesnt look like a truth to me , it looks like a comercial argument of someone with interest in it