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USP Powerfull....full of s***?

Mulletsoldier said:
Mucuna pruriens in Parkinson's disease: a double blind clinical and pharmacological study.

* Katzenschlager R,
* Evans A,
* Manson A,
* Patsalos PN,
* Ratnaraj N,
* Watt H,
* Timmermann L,
* Van der Giessen R,
* Lees AJ.

National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery, London, UK.

BACKGROUND: The seed powder of the leguminous plant, Mucuna pruriens has long been used in traditional Ayurvedic Indian medicine for diseases including parkinsonism. We have assessed the clinical effects and levodopa (L-dopa) pharmacokinetics following two different doses of mucuna preparation and compared them with standard L-dopa/carbidopa (LD/CD). METHODS: Eight Parkinson's disease patients with a short duration L-dopa response and on period dyskinesias completed a randomised, controlled, double blind crossover trial. Patients were challenged with single doses of 200/50 mg LD/CD, and 15 and 30 g of mucuna preparation in randomised order at weekly intervals. L-dopa pharmacokinetics were determined, and Unified Parkinson's Disease Rating Scale and tapping speed were obtained at baseline and repeatedly during the 4 h following drug ingestion. Dyskinesias were assessed using modified AIMS and Goetz scales. RESULTS: Compared with standard LD/CD, the 30 g mucuna preparation led to a considerably faster onset of effect (34.6 v 68.5 min; p = 0.021), reflected in shorter latencies to peak L-dopa plasma concentrations. Mean on time was 21.9% (37 min) longer with 30 g mucuna than with LD/CD (p = 0.021); peak L-dopa plasma concentrations were 110% higher and the area under the plasma concentration v time curve (area under curve) was 165.3% larger (p = 0.012). No significant differences in dyskinesias or tolerability occurred. CONCLUSIONS: The rapid onset of action and longer on time without concomitant increase in dyskinesias on mucuna seed powder formulation suggest that this natural source of L-dopa might possess advantages over conventional L-dopa preparations in the long term management of PD. Assessment of long term efficacy and tolerability in a randomised, controlled study is warranted.
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Any idea what the percentage of L-Dopa is in this Mucuna? Would seem pretty low if they are comparing it to a 200mg LD 50mg/CD mix but using 30g Mucuna. Is the 1C 50% L-Dopa, think i heard that before?
 
Nicely put Mullet.

Since you are such a fan of dissection...it does not "beg the question." Begging the question is a logical fallacy. It may lead to the question, but it certainly does not beg it.
 
MMM...2 Posts and then nothing?

Gee, how ironic is it that the guy makes 2 posts and then disappears? Strong call out for a first post and definitely one that should have been thought through more thoroughly.

Anyway, I'll speak from my own experience...Powerfull works...simple as that. I used the bulk form from NP and well it certainly gave me favorable results. The only thing I didn't like was the extra lethargy. Beyond that I'll say its a solid product.
 
jbono731 said:
Hopefully you didnt wake up needing plastic matress covers?? Haha, I used Powerfull and even logged it here on AM (which is all banning together and teaching children to do their research). I had very good results with this product. . . .KEEP THEM COMING USP, CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT ELSE YOU HAVE UP YOUR SLEEVES!!
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No need for plastic sheets thankfully. I post on many message boards, but don't enter the supplement section on most. Those people scare me. I'm an e-lover, not an e-fighter.
 
That was just my reaction!

Iron Warrior said:
FYI, I don't feel fatigued when I use creatine with P-Full
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I was using creatine at the time I used P-Full. I guess I was just an ultra responder to it. When you get the lethargy that means its really working...the release of growth hormone in your body can make you feel lethargic or sleepy. Now granted I mentioned I wasn't fond of the lethargy, but I must say that I F*cking loved the sleep because of it...very deep and restful. :D
 
USPLabs said:
We have many civil discussion about our products, and have witnessed other companies as well on AM.

But the obvious slanderous post is thrown to the Dogs.
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I looked through the thread over at drama central and low and behold it's the same douchebag(s) that are involved as usual. Maybe when they stop the free Wi-Fi at Dunkin Donouts, this type of b.s. will subside. :rolleyes:
 
USP doesn't have to defend their supps because they WORK. They are one of the few out there that only put out supps that work. Keep it up USP!
 
Viperspit said:
I looked through the thread over at drama central and low and behold it's the same douchebag(s) that are involved as usual. Maybe when they stop the free Wi-Fi at Dunkin Donouts, this type of b.s. will subside. :rolleyes:
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Twinkie over there gives dieting advice but has never dieted..go figure.
 
yea no offense to those who post over there(i read some of the stuff there...hardly in the straight supp section nemore tho...) but i get tired of all the drama...why does every1 love to fight? with that said i just look past it and read what interests me and is useful...
 
magicmartin said:
Sorry if this has already been discussed. I've been following this board since last summer, but this is the first subject I felt compelled to post on. If you have the link to that discussion, then please send it along....if not I will search for it
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Interesting. You have been following many boards since last summer since you have sent the post to all of them...
 
I havent had the best results with powerfull. I even discussed it with john the other day.
 
Basically, PowerFULL in an herbal form of Sinemet, though I'm leaning towards the notion that the natural decarboxylase inhibitor is better on your body. Both are used to boost HGH, though Sinemet is also a drug for parkinson's. I could never sleep well if I took a sinemet, and sometimes I wake up really early yet feel rested on PowerFULL, so I think the decarboxylase inhibitor in PowerFULL might outperform sinemet because it seems to increase systemic (outside of the brain) dopamine to a lesser extent; hence the less stimulatng effect.
 
Hopefully the kind of TROLL with the jewel in the belly from the 90's, so he can rub himself and wish for the information ferry to come and helf him sound educated!!

Probably not though :smite:
 
Here you go USP... EVEN though I spent hours posting monkey pictures and didn't get picked for Recreate, I've only heard good things about your products, and if there ever has been any complications, you are all very quick to help others. You guys represent your products well with your good attitudes, extreme helpfulness, and detailed information. While I've never had the chance to try PowerFULL, I definitely do intend too.
 
Viper being Viper!

Viperspit said:
I looked through the thread over at drama central and low and behold it's the same douchebag(s) that are involved as usual. Maybe when they stop the free Wi-Fi at Dunkin Donouts, this type of b.s. will subside. :rolleyes:
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Classic Viper humor...Love it! :D
 
Just to show that this is an even handed site...powerfull did not work for me at all. However, cAMPHIBOLIC is in my top five for sure. Great stuff, and it is THE best thing for my wrist pain/numbness (navicular process fracture seven years ago) I have found.
 
i coudl have sworn this thread was closed earlier :p lol

....something along the lines of "....consider this thread closed",

Love always

The Gatekeeper

(- the love part)
 
Zombie said:
Invalid Link Removed
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Right you are zombo. Another troll that definately needs a reality check. Usp has great supplements that work very well! Take that bullsh*t banter elsewhere......
 
Strong bias

Looks like USPLabs owns this forum

Bought and paid for....


MOD EDIT: You can too for $1


matthew76 said:
Does it not speak volumes that when some of our sponsors get called out or bad-mouthed, the troops rally around. This isn't the typical board - that's why AM is the best!
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john123131 said:
or we all just dont jump on the hate bandwagon right away like bb dot com?..

Welcome over here bro...
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I must have missed something, who's Magicmartin? I see Joel found his way over here though, wassup Joel? Must of been the Wi-Fi tip off :toofunny:
 
Viperspit said:
I must have missed something, who's Magicmartin? I see Joel found his way over here though, wassup Joel? Must of been the Wi-Fi tip off :toofunny:
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haha...sup viper. Magic is a member at bb too...i think he is Billypc of something over there, started a similar thread.

I think Joel came over cause Inter is here now and not at bb lol
 
Dalamara said:
But this also generates a climate of fear where people who would otherwise post concerns about certain products keep quiet because they know they'll get swarmed. Just a thought ;)
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I would agree with this. If someone says anything slightly negative about a board sponsor, all hell breaks loose!
 
LakunaKoil said:
Looks like USPLabs owns this forum

Bought and paid for....
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Theres a difference between unfounded bias and experienced bias Lakuna. I can't speak for everyone that has backed up USP (however I can say the majority) but from my own personal experience I have found USP Labs products, including powerful, to be the best of the best for what its intended for. Also I find it speaks words about the AM community how when a reputable member and Company (not just a reputable company here... in the INDUSTRY) are questioned in a way that is less than professional that fellow members back them up.
 
Powerfull did nothing for me, but that doesn't mean it won't work for someone else. There are many factors that are individual to a person that can affect the results of any supplement. I for awhile thought USP was a crock too, but Jacob is very helpful and I am now a believer of his products whether they work for me or not. PSlin is probably one of the best supplements out there and has helped me push myself further. They broke the industry with Cissus and now look how many companies are selling it. There are many companies who'd i'd love to bash with you, but USP is not one of them. All the companies on this board are top notch, well maybe not all, but most.
 
Sleep trouble

Alright, I have been taking PowerFULL 2 caps a night for about two weeks. I feel better physically already and libido IS solid. One thing messes me up every now and then though and it's when I take 2 caps around 11 pm, go to bed at midnight, and wake up WIDE AWAKE at 5 am. I'm used to getting about 7 to 8 hours every night, so maybe I really could get up and be alright. I could just be psyching myself out. So I end up laying there, not thinking all that clearly that early in the morning, thinking that this time will turn out different, until 8 or so, having not fallen back to sleep. The thing is I feel pretty good throughout the day until I think about the fact that I only got 4 or 5 hours of sleep, but I don't feel quite as good as when I actually did get around 8 hours in.

PowerFULL seems to not stimulate me at first, but about 4 or 5 hours later I'm awake, but I just don't wanna be (wahhh). Has anybody else had a similar problem? Maybe I'm a freak, hah. I know I could just pop some diphenhydramine (benadryl) and probably sleep the whole 8 hours just fine, but I also know that taking anti-cholinergics can interfere with HGH release and reduce REM and possibly offset PowerFULL's benefits entirely. So... anybody else wake up extra early on PowerFULL?
 
Questioning a product or company has never been a problem here - anyone who says different is trying to start a fight (ie, trolls).

However, posting pre-emptory, inflammatory and/or derogatory claims, insults, accusations against vendors and their products or services without any proof - or even a sound basis for an argument - is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MATTER. We don't welcome people who do that with big smiles and big hugs because these people you're attacking are part of our community - and you're not.

Whatever USP's arrangement w/ Bobo, the relationship between USPLabs and the forum membership has been EARNED by the USP guys, and backed up by their products. Maybe we indulge them a bit, but they indulge us, they come up with neat stuff, they let us play with it, and we all have a good time. The same is/has been true for most (if not all) of our board sponsors.

Oh - in answer to your question, about how to neg-rep the people you're attacking? You can't - and we can't neg-rep you, though you totally deserve it: the proof is that you haven't been neg-bombed into oblivion. You WILL be banned soon, however, and your rotting digital corpse will be hung by the front page as a warning to your kind: trolls & @ssholes aren't welcome here!

So, umm, p!ss off, 'kay?
 
BodyWizard said:
Questioning a product or company has never been a problem here - anyone who says different is trying to start a fight (ie, trolls).

However, posting pre-emptory, inflammatory and/or derogatory claims, insults, accusations against vendors and their products or services without any proof - or even a sound basis for an argument - is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MATTER. We don't welcome people who do that with big smiles and big hugs because these people you're attacking are part of our community - and you're not.

Whatever USP's arrangement w/ Bobo, the relationship between USPLabs and the forum membership has been EARNED by the USP guys, and backed up by their products. Maybe we indulge them a bit, but they indulge us, they come up with neat stuff, they let us play with it, and we all have a good time. The same is/has been true for most (if not all) of our board sponsors.

Oh - in answer to your question, about how to neg-rep the people you're attacking? You can't - and we can't neg-rep you, though you totally deserve it: the proof is that you haven't been neg-bombed into oblivion. You WILL be banned soon, however, and your rotting digital corpse will be hung by the front page as a warning to your kind: trolls & @ssholes aren't welcome here!

So, umm, p!ss off, 'kay?
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I disagree with you on a few parts. Some advertisers here DID NOT EARN A SPOT HERE. They bought it. Especially with some of the recent additions.

Yes this guy has a personal vendetta obviously, but I do also find that ALOT of people buy into product BLINDLY all because a sponsor is part of the board.

I personally enjoy some of USPs product, powerfull isnt one of them, but loved cissus and camph. But to discount the question just because it was inflammatory is bad business in my book.

Instead the question could have been answered and everyone here could have moved on, instead we have three pages of people saying "UPS is the man, and his product works"

Reaper said it best "Herd Mentallity"

Adams
 
LakunaKoil said:
Looks like USPLabs owns this forum

Bought and paid for....


MOD EDIT: You can too for $1
Click to expand...

The poster made one disparaging remark, devoid of objective knowledge, and then left. If somebody showed up at your house, called you an assh0le and then left, what would you think of them? I'm quite sure you would rationally accept their comment.

If you look, I even took the time to address his comment in a mature and objective manner yet received no response to it.
 
DAdams91982 said:
I disagree with you on a few parts. Some advertisers here DID NOT EARN A SPOT HERE. They bought it. Especially with some of the recent additions.

Yes this guy has a personal vendetta obviously, but I do also find that ALOT of people buy into product BLINDLY all because a sponsor is part of the board.

I personally enjoy some of USPs product, powerfull isnt one of them, but loved cissus and camph. But to discount the question just because it was inflammatory is bad business in my book.

Instead the question could have been answered and everyone here could have moved on, instead we have three pages of people saying "UPS is the man, and his product works"

Reaper said it best "Herd Mentallity"

Adams
Click to expand...

That was on the first page, about three-quarters of the way down; his question, inflammatory or not, was addressed, and he chose to dismiss the argument.

It's no secret that Mucuna is extracted and utilized for its high content of natural L-DOPA martin, you've levied no revelations there. What may be a revelation to you, however, is Mucuna's propensity to carry natural decarboxylase inhibitors such as carbidopa, making it vastly more effective than its synthetic counterpart. What may be a revelation to you as well, is the expression of COQ-10 and complex-I which have neurorestorative effects on the dopaminergic ions in the substantia nigra. What may be a revelation, is that unlike the synthetic L-DOPA you speak of, MP actually regenerates endogenous levadopa, dopamine, norepinephrine and GH levels. I think it seems rather redundant here to mention that it actually increases hypothalamatic-pituitary-axis GH production by way of raising (and keeping high) levels of GHRH.

Posting a title like this is quite similar to "Designer Supplements..full of ****?" then imparting the board with your knowledge that DS extracts 3-4 divan., from the Nettle Root.

So, your question of "is this little more than L-DOPA?" seems rather juvenile in the proper context. What was it, exactly, that you assumed Mucuna was extracted for? It's sweet aroma, therein raising serotonin levels to produce a euphoric effect?

As you seem to lack the motivation to do some necessary research before you attack a product, let me hit you with a little knowledge son:

Mucuna pruriens in Parkinson's disease: a double blind clinical and pharmacological study.

* Katzenschlager R,
* Evans A,
* Manson A,
* Patsalos PN,
* Ratnaraj N,
* Watt H,
* Timmermann L,
* Van der Giessen R,
* Lees AJ.

National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery, London, UK.

BACKGROUND: The seed powder of the leguminous plant, Mucuna pruriens has long been used in traditional Ayurvedic Indian medicine for diseases including parkinsonism. We have assessed the clinical effects and levodopa (L-dopa) pharmacokinetics following two different doses of mucuna preparation and compared them with standard L-dopa/carbidopa (LD/CD). METHODS: Eight Parkinson's disease patients with a short duration L-dopa response and on period dyskinesias completed a randomised, controlled, double blind crossover trial. Patients were challenged with single doses of 200/50 mg LD/CD, and 15 and 30 g of mucuna preparation in randomised order at weekly intervals. L-dopa pharmacokinetics were determined, and Unified Parkinson's Disease Rating Scale and tapping speed were obtained at baseline and repeatedly during the 4 h following drug ingestion. Dyskinesias were assessed using modified AIMS and Goetz scales. RESULTS: Compared with standard LD/CD, the 30 g mucuna preparation led to a considerably faster onset of effect (34.6 v 68.5 min; p = 0.021), reflected in shorter latencies to peak L-dopa plasma concentrations. Mean on time was 21.9% (37 min) longer with 30 g mucuna than with LD/CD (p = 0.021); peak L-dopa plasma concentrations were 110% higher and the area under the plasma concentration v time curve (area under curve) was 165.3% larger (p = 0.012). No significant differences in dyskinesias or tolerability occurred. CONCLUSIONS: The rapid onset of action and longer on time without concomitant increase in dyskinesias on mucuna seed powder formulation suggest that this natural source of L-dopa might possess advantages over conventional L-dopa preparations in the long term management of PD. Assessment of long term efficacy and tolerability in a randomised, controlled study is warranted.
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Mulletsoldier said:
The poster made one disparaging remark, devoid of objective knowledge, and then left. If somebody showed up at your house, called you an assh0le and then left, what would you think of them? I'm quite sure you would rationally accept their comment.

If you look, I even took the time to address his comment in a mature and objective manner yet received no response to it.
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Yes... and I apologize, I did read that comment, and thought it was actually helpful to the conversation.

Adams
 
Mulletsoldier said:
That was on the first page, about three-quarters of the way down; his question, inflammatory or not, was addressed, and he chose to dismiss the argument.
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Again, it was my fault for that miss. I was banking on the 75 other posts of nothing. This could have been an interesting thread, but instead a useless slugfest. The comment of all the sponsors here earned it hit me. USP is well estabilished and I trust them enough to try a new product myself and defer if it is for me, some of the other companies here have a shady rep at best, and did not earn anything here.

Adams
 
jasonschaffin said:
Any idea what the percentage of L-Dopa is in this Mucuna? Would seem pretty low if they are comparing it to a 200mg LD 50mg/CD mix but using 30g Mucuna. Is the 1C 50% L-Dopa, think i heard that before?
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Mullet, do you know the percentage of L-Dopa used in that study? And what is the percent in the 1-C again?
 
jasonschaffin said:
Mullet, do you know the percentage of L-Dopa used in that study? And what is the percent in the 1-C again?
Click to expand...

That was a crude Mucuna preparation using the leaves, I believe, and not the stem-root which contains the highest concentrations of LD. IIRC, the LD % in the stem root can be 20%.

Jacob will have to answer the LD % in 1-C, as I do not want to answer that inaccurately.
 
DAdams91982 said:
The comment of all the sponsors here earned it hit me.
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"[...M]ost (if not all)..." is what I said.

Designer Supps, AX, CNW, Nutraplanet (to name a few) have received (and earned IMO) enthusiastic support from their customers on AM in particular, along w/ USP. Without question, not every sponsor has forged the same sort of relationship w/ their customers, but I wasn't out to pick on them....
 
DAdams91982 said:
I disagree with you on a few parts. Some advertisers here DID NOT EARN A SPOT HERE. They bought it. Especially with some of the recent additions.

Yes this guy has a personal vendetta obviously, but I do also find that ALOT of people buy into product BLINDLY all because a sponsor is part of the board.

I personally enjoy some of USPs product, powerfull isnt one of them, but loved cissus and camph. But to discount the question just because it was inflammatory is bad business in my book.

Instead the question could have been answered and everyone here could have moved on, instead we have three pages of people saying "UPS is the man, and his product works"

Reaper said it best "Herd Mentallity"

Adams
Click to expand...

did you read the first page adams? his question was addressed by USP within the first posts telling him why hes wrong "protecting their formula" with other nomenclatures so his deduction is wrong and also mullet layed out an entire study showing him why it may even be considered close to L-dopa but is not.

so its not as though no one addressed the issue, it was addressed THEN everyone stated their dislpeasure with such a punk ass coming here to sling sh!t then run like a dog with his tail between his legs realizing he was foolish to think his fancy diagram would sway the masses as it suredly did at BB.troll.

and your third paragraph saying someone shouldnt be dismissed purely cause of them being derogetory? why not I ask? I wouldnt hold a conversation with a person that is immovable in the first place and is just going to insult me throughout a seemingly intelligent convo.

JMO but you opinion is a lil off for what will create any kind of real productive convos.
 
poopypants said:
did you read the first page adams? his question was addressed by USP within the first posts telling him why hes wrong "protecting their formula" with other nomenclatures so his deduction is wrong and also mullet layed out an entire study showing him why it may even be considered close to L-dopa but is not.

so its not as though no one addressed the issue, it was addressed THEN everyone stated their dislpeasure with such a punk ass coming here to sling sh!t then run like a dog with his tail between his legs realizing he was foolish to think his fancy diagram would sway the masses as it suredly did at BB.troll.

and your third paragraph saying someone shouldnt be dismissed purely cause of them being derogetory? why not I ask? I wouldnt hold a conversation with a person that is immovable in the first place and is just going to insult me throughout a seemingly intelligent convo.

JMO but you opinion is a lil off for what will create any kind of real productive convos.
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I addressed Mullet in posts above about his statement. The other "Replys" said that its been stated and stated again (Not a reply).

When you are a company, you ARE going to have people attack and question your product. You should know that better than anyone. It is their job to take the high ground, and just smoosh the questions right there right now.

Questioning "Authority"... how would that not create a productive discussion?

Saying it works well because... it works, doesnt give someone much.

I personally was intrigued by the orignal post. Did USP just mislead by using a off nomenclature? Is it nothing but run of the mill L-Dopa? Why is it people just take someones word, and that is it? It is not past making the almighty dollar. People arent in this to GIVE BACK.

I was interested in the topic. And I DID apologize to mullet for the overlook of this information. Fanboys just are irritating. If you think that a corral full of fanboys makes for a intelligent discussion, then my idea of opposition to get all the information is way off.

Blah... Im done.

Adams
 
poopypants said:
did you read the first page adams? his question was addressed by USP within the first posts telling him why hes wrong "protecting their formula" with other nomenclatures so his deduction is wrong and also mullet layed out an entire study showing him why it may even be considered close to L-dopa but is not.

so its not as though no one addressed the issue, it was addressed THEN everyone stated their dislpeasure with such a punk ass coming here to sling sh!t then run like a dog with his tail between his legs realizing he was foolish to think his fancy diagram would sway the masses as it suredly did at BB.troll.

and your third paragraph saying someone shouldnt be dismissed purely cause of them being derogetory? why not I ask? I wouldnt hold a conversation with a person that is immovable in the first place and is just going to insult me throughout a seemingly intelligent convo.

JMO but you opinion is a lil off for what will create any kind of real productive convos.
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There has only been one person that I have considered to full up front with their product when released, and that is Sledge (DS). He always answers all questions about his product, and fully defends them, like a doctor would his dissertation.

Adams
 
DAdams91982 said:
There has only been one person that I have considered to full up front with their product when released, and that is Sledge (DS). He always answers all questions about his product, and fully defends them, like a doctor would his dissertation.

Adams
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well it helps sledge is a frickin chemist and a great one at that, wish he frequented here more often:D

I agree some others side step the question but sometimes they dont have the EXACT answer or can only answer the question in the light in which they see it. Im sure Jacob is no fool, but you notice the way he addresses the question is more from a business standpoint stating the reasons why this guy was wrong cause he knows hes CYA'ing his own with his formula by putting on a nomenclature that obviously can be broke down to be something SIMILAR to whats in his product but isnt going to divulge the real thing. Then mullet steps in to help out with the more scientific study and the comparison of l-dopa to the MP extract... not everyone can be an all in one super company runner and thats why these comps have reps on many different levels. with that said Jacob and USPL's products really do speak for themselves and he has a great CS side to his comp which he is usually at the forfront of each and every question posted in regards to his supps, compare that to most comps who dont even answer possibly negative or confrontational problems with their products!
 
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