Using Mucuna pruiens for a long time

John Smeton

John Smeton

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I have been taking hghpro for a year or so nonstop and one of the ingredients is Mucuna pruiens, according to Ai sports , 99% levodopa. how many mgs l-dopa is in hghpro?,well we dont now its a proprietary blend, I am guessing a medium dose, and will never know

I have done research on this before and cycled it before untill I asked Chris Aceto if its safe to do this about a year or so ago and he said it is perfectly fine to do this. I just went along with his word because he is knowledgeable in just about everything bodybuilding so I assumed he was correct on this-I recently asked him again and am waiting his answer

Recently a guy who appears to be a very knowledgeable member in supplementation, Mr Cooper, mentioned that taking l-dopa for too long can mess up the brain.

lets start off with my subjective experience. I feel perfectly fine

lets get the facts stright. I have seen studies where it says l-dopa depletes dopamine causing certain side effects. I have read mucuna pruiens are not the same thing as levodopa. I have taken read the eGcg in hghpro balances l-dopa. (as does 5-htp which I did take[for fatloss])

well to those who are interested or know what is your opinion?
 
jerrysiii

jerrysiii

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I have been taking hghpro for a year or so nonstop and one of the ingredients is Mucuna pruiens, according to Ai sports , 99% levodopa. how many mgs l-dopa is in hghpro?,well we dont now its a proprietary blend, I am guessing a medium dose, and will never know

I have done research on this before and cycled it before untill I asked Chris Aceto if its safe to do this about a year or so ago and he said it is perfectly fine to do this. I just went along with his word because he is knowledgeable in just about everything bodybuilding so I assumed he was correct on this-I recently asked him again and am waiting his answer

Recently a guy who appears to be a very knowledgeable member in supplementation, Mr Cooper, mentioned that taking l-dopa for too long can mess up the brain.

lets start off with my subjective experience. I feel perfectly fine

lets get the facts stright. I have seen studies where it says l-dopa depletes dopamine causing certain side effects. I have read mucuna pruiens are not the same thing as levodopa. I have taken read the eGcg in hghpro balances l-dopa. (as does 5-htp which I did take[for fatloss])

well to those who are interested or know what is your opinion?
Great topic. I use ingredients mucuna pruiens occasionally to combat prolactin sides. I also cycle Active Xtreme from time-to-time. Wish I could add more, but what I have read is similar to what you've already stated. Higher doses of l-dopa are used to treat Parkinson's Disease. If you don't get much response here, you may want to post the question in Patrick Arnold's forum.
 
John Smeton

John Smeton

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I just talked with Patrick about this and he mention he doesnt know. he mentioned the movie awakenings with Robert de niro and Robin Williams, that hopefully ill get a chance to watch tonight.

I am going to er on the side of caution and stop taking it because I am not sure if it is harmful, even though I noticed zero sides. I might use the stuff on cycle and pct and take a couple months off the stuff cycling it. Thanks Mr Cooper for saying something
 
vidapreta

vidapreta

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
I just talked with Patrick about this and he mention he doesnt know. he mentioned the movie awakenings with Robert de niro and Robin Williams, that hopefully ill get a chance to watch tonight.

I am going to er on the side of caution and stop taking it because I am not sure if it is harmful, even though I noticed zero sides. I might use the stuff on cycle and pct and take a couple months off the stuff cycling it. Thanks Mr Cooper for saying something
You're going to the er without having side effects?? What are you nervous about??

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2
 
John Smeton

John Smeton

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
You're going to the er without having side effects?? What are you nervous about??

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2
LOL er=air like airing on the side of caution and stopping to take it.
 
vidapreta

vidapreta

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
LOL er=air like airing on the side of caution and stopping to take it.
Lmao...Ok I was thinking maybe you were a hypochondriac..lol

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2
 
John Smeton

John Smeton

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
You have unquestionably depleted brain serotonin at this stage. Stop using HGHPro for at least 2 months and get on some 5HTP.
Will do.
 

amateurfreak

New member
Awards
0
I'm just wondering why you would stop the supplemental tyrosine?
 
John Smeton

John Smeton

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I'm just wondering why you would stop the supplemental tyrosine?
its a precursor to dopamine , just like l-dopa is

there are two debates on both sides which I dont feel like writing out. I have been reading a lot on it. While my personal thoughts side effects/benefits are dose dependent. I am thinking hghpro has a lower dosage, like between 100-400mgs, maybe somewhere in between

Look at the doses in the parkinsons study , which went up quite high and look at the doses in the rat studies, the rat studies are done on about 29 grams for a human. Some humans are taking upwards to ten grams and seem to be fine. just to be 100% not changing my brain chemistry for the worse; im cycling the l-dopa.
 

squatting

Banned
Awards
0
Are there any side effects that appears That tell u you have taken l dopa for a little too long ?
 

amateurfreak

New member
Awards
0
I knew I was missing something right in front of me. Thanks for clarifying guys.
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
its a precursor to dopamine , just like l-dopa is

there are two debates on both sides which I dont feel like writing out. I have been reading a lot on it. While my personal thoughts side effects/benefits are dose dependent. I am thinking hghpro has a lower dosage, like between 100-400mgs, maybe somewhere in between

Look at the doses in the parkinsons study , which went up quite high and look at the doses in the rat studies, the rat studies are done on about 29 grams for a human. Some humans are taking upwards to ten grams and seem to be fine. just to be 100% not changing my brain chemistry for the worse; im cycling the l-dopa.
You cannot compare PD patients, who suffer from LOSS of presynaptic dopaminergic neurons, to someone who is healthy and is now producing an excess of dopamine from a normal cell count. Also, the effects are not only dose dependent but also TIME-dependent, hence why cycling of l-dopa is necessary
 
ConcreteConny

ConcreteConny

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Great topic here guys.
I always use Mucuna/L-Dopa right before bed at a maximum of 8weeks and I mostly use it of that deep sleep it gives me.
If I take it in the morning I walk around like a zombie :bigeyes:

So what kind of cycles / dosing protocol do you recommend coop? :)
 
Jay888999

Jay888999

Banned
Awards
0
Cooper & Warbird:

Whats the proper dosage if you were to add L Dopa individually to a 4-8 week natty run?

or as part of a pct after lets say a 4 -8 week run of a PH?

I would assume higher doses would he needed after an anabolic run.
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
Great topic here guys.
I always use Mucuna/L-Dopa right before bed at a maximum of 8weeks and I mostly use it of that deep sleep it gives me.
If I take it in the morning I walk around like a zombie :bigeyes:

So what kind of cycles / dosing protocol do you recommend coop? :)
Cooper & Warbird:

Whats the proper dosage if you were to add L Dopa individually to a 4-8 week natty run?

or as part of a pct after lets say a 4 -8 week run of a PH?

I would assume higher doses would he needed after an anabolic run.
2 months on, 1 month off is a good starting point. The effects on prolactin are pretty much immediate, so you can use it right at the start of PCT. If you co-supplement with 5HTP, you can probably go up to 3 months on l-dopa if the dose is low.
 
Jay888999

Jay888999

Banned
Awards
0
2 months on, 1 month off is a good starting point. The effects on prolactin are pretty much immediate, so you can use it right at the start of PCT. If you co-supplement with 5HTP, you can probably go up to 3 months on l-dopa if the dose is low.
Thnks Again man!!! Cheers dude!
 
jerrysiii

jerrysiii

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
If you're using the HGHpro to help stimulate growth hormone, you may want to try a some GABA and arginine right before bed. You could cycle this stack when you're off the other product.
 
Jay888999

Jay888999

Banned
Awards
0
If you're using the HGHpro to help stimulate growth hormone, you may want to try a some GABA and arginine right before bed. You could cycle this stack when you're off the other product.
Why arginine and how many Mgs?
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
If you're using the HGHpro to help stimulate growth hormone, you may want to try a some GABA and arginine right before bed. You could cycle this stack when you're off the other product.
Increasing GH release really isn't worth pursuing for body composition purposes, and you would need an absurd (20+g) dose of arginine to elicit such a response...a dose which is more likely to send you to the toilet than positively affect body composition. GABA is pretty sweet though and aids quite a bit in relaxation and sleep quality.
 
tyga tyga

tyga tyga

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • First Up Vote
This applies to bulk 1-carboxy as well?

I cycle this eod, could you do this indeffinitely?
 
ConcreteConny

ConcreteConny

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
You cannot compare PD patients, who suffer from LOSS of presynaptic dopaminergic neurons, to someone who is healthy and is now producing an excess of dopamine from a normal cell count. Also, the effects are not only dose dependent but also TIME-dependent, hence why cycling of l-dopa is necessary
Let me first start by saying UUUGHHHH!!!! This is why I hate that mucuna is referred to as L-DOPA.

OP, yes you should cycle off, but should be completely fine.

Mucuna pruriens is NOT the same thing as somebody who is taking Levodopa and studies on one are not interchangeable with the other. Why and how are they different? Nobody seems to know and if you can find articles that says different, please point me in their direction. In the early 2000's there seemed to be some interest in Mucuna for Parkinson's, but nobody is really even looking at it anymore. I really do wish we could come up with a different term for it before somebody on the boards finds grandpa's medicine and starts using it with horrible results.
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
Let me first start by saying UUUGHHHH!!!! This is why I hate that mucuna is referred to as L-DOPA.

OP, yes you should cycle off, but should be completely fine.

Mucuna pruriens is NOT the same thing as somebody who is taking Levodopa and studies on one are not interchangeable with the other. Why and how are they different? Nobody seems to know and if you can find articles that says different, please point me in their direction. In the early 2000's there seemed to be some interest in Mucuna for Parkinson's, but nobody is really even looking at it anymore. I really do wish we could come up with a different term for it before somebody on the boards finds grandpa's medicine and starts using it with horrible results.
I believe this is due to the presence of mu opioids and other constituents of the plant. However, this specific extract (99%) is 99% levodopa. If we were talking about one of the more common, lower % extracts, it would be a different story entirely (hence why Inhibit-P is considered safe for longterm use). Why would researchers continue pursuing mucuna pruriens when levodopa can be readily synthesized from a pharmaceutical company? That's where the money, and the guaranteed quality, is at, after all.

Here is a free text on a clinical trial finding mucuna pruriens as effective as L-dopa for PD symptom treatment: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1738871/. In fact, it was more effective. But what's the important message? It was standardized for 4.86% L-dopa. When you're essentially taking the pure compound as in the case of AI HGHPro (who knows if it's even a plant extract at a whopping 99% purity anyway), it is more than likely going to behave exactly as pure l-dopa.
 
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
I believe this is due to the presence of mu opioids and other constituents of the plant. However, this specific extract (99%) is 99% levodopa. If we were talking about one of the more common, lower % extracts, it would be a different story entirely (hence why Inhibit-P is considered safe for longterm use). Why would researchers continue pursuing mucuna pruriens when levodopa can be readily synthesized from a pharmaceutical company? That's where the money, and the guaranteed quality, is at, after all.

Here is a free text on a clinical trial finding mucuna pruriens as effective as L-dopa for PD treatment: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1738871/
There is money in it because nobody else has come up with anything better, but the side effects completely suck. They give Carbidopa to help, but it doesn't do much. We give L-DOPA/Carbidopa to the rats and they still get horrible dyskinesias. L-DOPA is the key still, but we still need something better to give along side with it and they were hoping that was in mucuna at one point. The money would be figuring out exactly what is was:) That trial looked promising, but was 2004. I don't think I've even seen a poster in the last 2 years let alone an article.

I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I just honestly have a fear that one day somebody is going to post that they took Levodopa!
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
There is money in it because nobody else has come up with anything better, but the side effects completely suck. They give Carbidopa to help, but it doesn't do much. We give L-DOPA/Carbidopa to the rats and they still get horrible dyskinesias. L-DOPA is the key still, but we still need something better to give along side with it and they were hoping that was in mucuna at one point. The money would be figuring out exactly what is was:) That trial looked promising, but was 2004. I don't think I've even seen a poster in the last 2 years let alone an article.

I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I just honestly have a fear that one day somebody is going to post that they took Levodopa!
Not hijacking at all, great post. So why do you think pursuit of mucuna was stopped? And I agree, it's all about combating:

1. Loss of efficacy over time during the honeymoon period
2. Minimizing side effects
 
WARBIRDWS6

WARBIRDWS6

Banned
Awards
0
I often wonder if higher doses of 1-carboxy and mucuna/l-dopa (plus green tea extract and maybe P-5-P) would work just as well for AAS cycles incorporating tren or deca, instead of having to use caber or prami.
 
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Not hijacking at all, great post. So why do you think pursuit of mucuna was stopped? And I agree, it's all about combating:

1. Loss of efficacy over time during the honeymoon period
2. Minimizing side effects
If I had to guess I would say that somebody higher up the ladder told them that they need to figure out why this plant was doing what it was doing before clinicals were going to go any further. The researchers make crap money (yay me lol), but they have to be funded and a company is going to want to fund something that they can make, not something that people can grow. I am very pro-pharm companies having seen behind the curtain and how much money they put into research, but at the end of the day, they are a business. Sometimes these projects just hit a dead end because the people in charge of funding (either private or government) see something shiny and want to do that instead.

Pfizer and some brilliant, young, extremely handsome scientist (who doesn't get paid Pfizer-level money) should have a paper out by the end of the year...depending on reviewers.
 
MidwestBeast

MidwestBeast

AnabolicMinds Site Rep
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
It turns me on when Coop talks in scientific terms :love:
 

mycatmagnus

New member
Awards
0
great topic. The reason I decided not to take the drug Welbutrin was I was afraid of permanent dopamine shutdown. I just started Now brand mucuna as part of a libido stack and will be cycling it but not sure how. I can't seem to find doasges that work for people for libido? I'm taking 2 caps 3xday on empty stomach for a total of 360mg L-Dopa. I read somewhere that 1500mg is an upper limit for safety. Been on for three days along with longjack,maca,goji and tribulus.
 

squatting

Banned
Awards
0
2 months on, 1 month off is a good starting point. The effects on prolactin are pretty much immediate, so you can use it right at the start of PCT. If you co-supplement with 5HTP, you can probably go up to 3 months on l-dopa if the dose is low.
If the effects on prolactin is immediate can u just take l dopa after intercourse and not everyday just to prevent the rise of prolactin right after sex
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
If the effects on prolactin is immediate can u just take l dopa after intercourse and not everyday just to prevent the rise of prolactin right after sex
I guess, but why? Some people use it exclusively for this purpose as it anecdotally reduces the refractory period
 

nergy

Member
Awards
0
coop, you said inhibit-P ise safe to use on the long term because of the right dosage of mucuna (Mucuna Pruriens (60% L-Dopa) 150 mg for 1 cap), right ?

So what about endosurge ?
for 2 caps and they recommand to take it 3 times daily.
Mucuna pruriens 75% L-Dopa 83 mg
Mucuna pruriens 25% L-Dopa 100 mg

Wouldn't it be way to much ?
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
coop, you said inhibit-P ise safe to use on the long term because of the right dosage of mucuna (Mucuna Pruriens (60% L-Dopa) 150 mg for 1 cap), right ?

So what about endosurge ?
for 2 caps and they recommand to take it 3 times daily.
Mucuna pruriens 75% L-Dopa 83 mg
Mucuna pruriens 25% L-Dopa 100 mg

Wouldn't it be way to much ?
Relative to therapeutic doses of l-dopa, endosurge isn't really all that high. I'd feel free to use it up to 8 weeks on end before taking a 4 week break.
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
so how come is endosurge higher dosed than inhibit-P ?
Because Inhibit-P is a full spectrum prolactin control complex. The vitex agnus castus extract, for instance, is loaded with compounds that reduce prolactin. Mucuna pruriens is the sole prolactin control ingredient in endosurge.
 

nergy

Member
Awards
0
Because Inhibit-P is a full spectrum prolactin control complex. The vitex agnus castus extract, for instance, is loaded with compounds that reduce prolactin. Mucuna pruriens is the sole prolactin control ingredient in endosurge.

so endosurge may not be the best choice for prolactin control ?
 

squatting

Banned
Awards
0
Because Inhibit-P is a full spectrum prolactin control complex. The vitex agnus castus extract, for instance, is loaded with compounds that reduce prolactin. Mucuna pruriens is the sole prolactin control ingredient in endosurge.
Would it be ok to just take inhibit once a day ? I read vitex should be taken in high doses cause low doses result in unwanted effects . Is there enough l dopa to take inhibit once a day or u won't recommend it
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
Would it be ok to just take inhibit once a day ? I read vitex should be taken in high doses cause low doses result in unwanted effects . Is there enough l dopa to take inhibit once a day or u won't recommend it
On the contrary, lower doses of Vitex prevent potential issues. Higher doses have been found to do nothing for prolactin, which is why this specific dose and extract was used. Once a day is perfect.
 

Similar threads


Top