Gutterpump
Banned
Better stock up on your P5P. Like all good supps that work, the FDA decided to make it a drug (or is in the process of banning it as a natural supp), so it will soon only be available via prescription.
Undermethylation and OverMethylation?
- Thread starter MetalMX
- Start date
The Matrix
Well-known member
JanSz
Well-known member
If you like P5P
you will love Pyridoxamine
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Invalid Link Removed
There are three different forms of vitamin B6 (pyridoxine, pyridoxal, pyridoxamine). All are important and can be converted in the body to the active form of B6 called PLP or P5P which the body uses in many pathways. The pyridoxamine form is considered to be the most potent antiaging form because of its ability to enhance glucose metabolism, quench toxic free radicals1, and help block formation of advanced glycation end-products (AGEs).
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Gutterpump
Banned
Another one bites the dust....stock up!
SENSEZFAIL
New member
I remember a study about the use of Zantac because its a H2 Antagonist & will block the production & release of histamine, lowering the affects of the Histadelia
It was originally posted on an acne forum years back
Google "ACNE THE NEW THEORY" & you will see it, I cant post any links yet apparently
& any thoughts on it?
It was originally posted on an acne forum years back
Google "ACNE THE NEW THEORY" & you will see it, I cant post any links yet apparently
& any thoughts on it?
SENSEZFAIL
New member
As far as P-5-P, L-Methylfolate, Methylcobalamin, Niacinamide go..... Any recommended doses?
Would really appreciate some input... Im new to this whole Undermethylation process but I KNOW for a fact that I am Histadelic, I almost fell out when I was reading the symptoms because they fit me to a TEE
Would really appreciate some input... Im new to this whole Undermethylation process but I KNOW for a fact that I am Histadelic, I almost fell out when I was reading the symptoms because they fit me to a TEE
The Matrix
Well-known member
Before supplementing I have all my clients have some kind of clinical basis for recommending these supplements. When dealing with methylation you need to know what the hell you are doing other wise it can make matters even worse.
Metal MX has that validation which makes it much more easier to recommend for his individual need ..
SENSEZFAIL
New member
How can I go about that?
Certain testing that I should ask for?
PM you exact symptoms?
Im at a desperate stage right now......
Certain testing that I should ask for?
PM you exact symptoms?
Im at a desperate stage right now......
The Matrix
Well-known member
If you have insurance then do the Genova ONE test once you get results PM ME.
SENSEZFAIL
New member
No type of insurance, Im 19 & just got laid off from my first job... Generally how much would a test be minus insurance & how standard are they as far as where you can get them done at?
Also, how much of an impact does a Histidine diet have on this issue? Ive read to avoid foods such as Chicken, Beef, High Protein & even things like Spinach & Peas? This has been an issue for me seeing as I already feel I have a dairy & wheat allergy possibly caused by leaky gut from a Th2:Th1 imbalance
Also, how much of an impact does a Histidine diet have on this issue? Ive read to avoid foods such as Chicken, Beef, High Protein & even things like Spinach & Peas? This has been an issue for me seeing as I already feel I have a dairy & wheat allergy possibly caused by leaky gut from a Th2:Th1 imbalance
The Matrix
Well-known member
You read too much as do many people and need to sift through the nonsense and what is fact. If you have leaky gut then you need to start treating with it, but with out knowing ones biochemistry it could end up through people into seizures if one trys to supplement the wrong thing. To me it sounds like you are overstressed and in a bad position right now. In your case stress management would be the most logical choice as well as supplements to calm your sympathetic nervous system down. Try to relax before going to bed at night by staying off the computer and trying to self diagnose your self. When I first start handling people this is the best piece of advice I can give them is to let the experts do the thinking that is they get paid for. If you do not trust your health advisier then find another one..You can hire and fire at will. The power is yours. i have been in your shoes and it can be a very difficult time in life, but where there is a will there is a way to get back to your wellness. Take one step at a time and look at all the positive things you have going in life instead of focusing on the negative.
SENSEZFAIL
New member
No, It's much deeper then Leaky Gut & it won't let me send you a PM... Is there any way I could contact you just so you can hear me out?
The Matrix
Well-known member
Trust me when I start digging there are alot of issue that are resulting in leaky gut ..I look at the person from all angles even their child hood if there is trama and current living situation and everything ..there are also could be a hidden factor such as infection that has not been discovered or dybiosis
MetalMX
Member
Well it seems after only three days of use of the LMethylFolate, MethylB12 and P5P i am noticing improvments. I went through what i would call a "healing crisis" on day two and felt worse then ever with bone pains and flu like feeling then this subsided and i woke up feeling pretty damn good!
My muscles have like popped out or started growing or something i duno but i like it, its literally noticable after 2-3 days. I have also gotten some dull liver aches like my liver is kickstarting itself back up.
All i can say is i hope to see a lot more improvments, Thanks Matrix. Its amazing what a little of the right supplementation can do.
My muscles have like popped out or started growing or something i duno but i like it, its literally noticable after 2-3 days. I have also gotten some dull liver aches like my liver is kickstarting itself back up.
All i can say is i hope to see a lot more improvments, Thanks Matrix. Its amazing what a little of the right supplementation can do.
The Matrix
Well-known member
Well it seems after only three days of use of the LMethylFolate, MethylB12 and P5P i am noticing improvments. I went through what i would call a "healing crisis" on day two and felt worse then ever with bone pains and flu like feeling then this subsided and i woke up feeling pretty damn good!
My muscles have like popped out or started growing or something i duno but i like it, its literally noticable after 2-3 days. I have also gotten some dull liver aches like my liver is kickstarting itself back up.
All i can say is i hope to see a lot more improvments, Thanks Matrix. Its amazing what a little of the right supplementation can do.
If more people and Dr's would start recognising this..After about 4-5 weeks you should really kick in. I just had a lady come to me yesterday with dna testing as well. I told her I did not want to see the results untill I got done with her muscle testing. Amazingly after i tested the supplements and told her what supplements she tested for. Then after looking at the results the muscle testing showed methy folate , methyl b-12, but not TMG and P5P.
Amazing she had mutation of mthfrr and also methione synthase on her DNA report, When I showed her the results she tripped out. I do this every time to prove my point that its not a psudo science but based upon real validity.
What did you dr say when you presented what supplements i recommended and we never even conversed LOL Plus you are not on a boat load of stuff just what body requires.
MetalMX
Member
He didn't say much besides that he knows its for methylation. The only thing he saw was the lack of B6 P5P on the ONE test i don't think he noticed my folic acid/B12 problem on their, i was the one who asked him for the MethylB12 and Folinic Acid for an order form. He seemed like he was rushing with me when i first saw him but when he saw my mum he was taking his time and did the biofeedback testing with her but not me. But ill ask him to do it next time. I hate doctors ****ing rushing with me when i'm paying them a shitload of money.
The supps are definitly helping. I know i have a problem with nerve damage but i don't know the cause.
Did my doctor think for a second that my numbness and tingling, loss of sensation and muscle weakness could be attributed to nerve damage? No. Bascially all GP's i have seen completely useless id get more help from a deaf drunken hobo.
My final conclusion Matrix is this could be pernicious anemia but i'll have to test for it, my tongue is red and swollen a bit seems like a symptom of the disease. Because my grandmother has low serum folic acid and B12 and is getting her intrinisic factor antibodies tested and parietal cell antibodies and my mum has low b12 too. Both my mum and grandmother have tingling and my mother has mild sense reduction and slight neurological symptoms. It would be a good idea to rule it out.
Or it could be a really bad cause of undermethylation just by itself.
Main thing is things are getting better. You should be the doctor's doctor my man.
I think people should get use to regular doctors being excellent at diagnosing only acute medical problems (which they are) that are life and death and nothing else. Any other problems... nope can't help you their.
What kind of DNA testing did she undergo?
arty:
The Matrix
Well-known member
My specualtion is hypomethylation and hypothyroid are both at core source as well as stress (over traning, under eating, steroid use, enviormental effect) causing the accelerated mutations to be more apparent now then 40 years down the road. As both of these things run in your family history (genetic) and can geoghaphical stress such as powerlines, and power stations may be mold exposure could have been all contributing factors. Putting over 12 hours of research and correspondance back and forth to come up with viable scenerio
MetalMX
Member
Pretty much...
Matrix do you know any links or pdfs or anything of the sort with diagrams of the methylation cycle and what it actually involves on an indepth manner?.
I could only find one diagram couple months ago on a supplement website where it basically showed methylation is involved in - Energy production, mood (neurotransmitters) , healing, detoxification via production of glutathione, Immunity and DNA.
Their doesn't seem to be much concrete data about it on the web, yet it is so vital for life.
And how did you figure out mold exposure?
I know i was always in one place for 2 years and i didn't get out much of that place (besides the gym). and the food i was eating was always cold from the fridge and out of cans and it was left out in the kitchen at times without any wrapping paper... so the mold issue would make sense. Not to mention i had really bad candida yeast infections and subsequent symptoms.
Matrix do you know any links or pdfs or anything of the sort with diagrams of the methylation cycle and what it actually involves on an indepth manner?.
I could only find one diagram couple months ago on a supplement website where it basically showed methylation is involved in - Energy production, mood (neurotransmitters) , healing, detoxification via production of glutathione, Immunity and DNA.
Their doesn't seem to be much concrete data about it on the web, yet it is so vital for life.
And how did you figure out mold exposure?
I know i was always in one place for 2 years and i didn't get out much of that place (besides the gym). and the food i was eating was always cold from the fridge and out of cans and it was left out in the kitchen at times without any wrapping paper... so the mold issue would make sense. Not to mention i had really bad candida yeast infections and subsequent symptoms.
The Matrix
Well-known member
MetalMX
Member
SENSEZFAIL
New member
Hey Metal, can you clear some of your PMs.. Says your box is full & I want to send a follow-up
MetalMX
Member
The Matrix
Well-known member
Every one can not do the samething that every one does so do not even try that ..Every ones biochemistry is different.
SENSEZFAIL
New member
MetalMX
Member
Im not recommending him anything besides appropriate testing.
Don't worry i'm using the "One mans poison another mans medicine" philosophy and its certainly true.
MetalMX
Member
Well it has been only 6 days but the benefits i have noticed from my very basic supplement reigm (4mg Folinic Acid, 10mg MethylB12, 50mg P5P) are:
Energy up, less fatigue.
Water retention almost eliminated, Face completely free of water and looks chiseled
Brain fog relieved
Pressure between the eyes feeling lessened
Improvement in sense of smell and taste
Going to the toilet more (less constipation)
Muscle tone improving
Less Muscle weakness
Mood up
Appetite improving - easier to digest/eat things
Things are improving quite quickly which is great. Its almost unbelieveable.
Energy up, less fatigue.
Water retention almost eliminated, Face completely free of water and looks chiseled
Brain fog relieved
Pressure between the eyes feeling lessened
Improvement in sense of smell and taste
Going to the toilet more (less constipation)
Muscle tone improving
Less Muscle weakness
Mood up
Appetite improving - easier to digest/eat things
Things are improving quite quickly which is great. Its almost unbelieveable.
MacWanted
Member
Well it has been only 6 days but the benefits i have noticed from my very basic supplement reigm (4mg Folinic Acid, 10mg MethylB12, 50mg P5P) are:
Energy up, less fatigue.
Water retention almost eliminated, Face completely free of water and looks chiseled
Brain fog relieved
Pressure between the eyes feeling lessened
Improvement in sense of smell and taste
Going to the toilet more (less constipation)
Muscle tone improving
Less Muscle weakness
Mood up
Appetite improving - easier to digest/eat things
Things are improving quite quickly which is great. Its almost unbelieveable.
That is great to hear... Matrix was very helpfull I guess....
in my case I feel less tiried but my sleep is still not good. last night I woke up again with numbness and like my brain suffered too...
my heart beat is high when I do effort...
MetalMX
Member
What are you currently using?
I think any reigm takes time probably at least a month to notice more noticable benefits.
My sleep is always interupted i wake up about 3 times from 3-7am this has been going on for 3 and a half years.
Jblu
New member
QUOTE from page 2 "What im confused about when i read about undermethylation and high histamine on some sites it says treatment is centered around antifolates such as calcium which bind histamine and release it into the blood stream as well as methionine which acts as a methyl donor. Then i have read elsewhere folic acid is used for undermethylation So should we be using folate or not for undermethylation?"
I have the same questions that metalmix has ...
I do have one mutation of mthfr. I know I must have high histamine, the info fits. I'm asking now for a blood test that naturopath should have done in the first place.
Three months ago, I started a daily intake of methylB's (methylguard) approx (2600 mg) and NAC (600 mg). After a month, I started feeling bad, like a flu, achy all over, brain was foggy. I was getting over a chest cold and I thought it was that. By the end of the second month, my eye started to twitch constantly, eyes stung, constant muscle spasms all over especially night, instead of the occasional muscle tightness that I used to have, irritable, short memory was horrible, bad acne, senses were super alert (sense of smell, bright lights bothered me). It was worse in the morning and early afternoon, and by night the eye twitching was calming down a bit. I finally figured out it was the methyl Bs. After the third day of not taking them, the twitching was gone. I'm still not feeling totally better. My naturopathic dr had no real answers as to why this happened. She refunded my money for the pills that ruined two months of my life. My other dr (RNP actually), said the Bs were poisoning me. She said we should only take B 50s or B 100s, identical mgs of Bs to keep them balanced in the gut. A few years ago, I had tried Deplin because all the drs are pushing these methyl Bs, and I didn't like the way it made me feel at the time, but I wasn't sure if it was it or another med I was on.
Interesting about DIM, I take Nature's Way DIM (2 a day) because I know I have high estrogen for over a years.
It seems my liver did not like all of this? Past blood tests have shown my liver is happy.
I have the same questions that metalmix has ...
I do have one mutation of mthfr. I know I must have high histamine, the info fits. I'm asking now for a blood test that naturopath should have done in the first place.
Three months ago, I started a daily intake of methylB's (methylguard) approx (2600 mg) and NAC (600 mg). After a month, I started feeling bad, like a flu, achy all over, brain was foggy. I was getting over a chest cold and I thought it was that. By the end of the second month, my eye started to twitch constantly, eyes stung, constant muscle spasms all over especially night, instead of the occasional muscle tightness that I used to have, irritable, short memory was horrible, bad acne, senses were super alert (sense of smell, bright lights bothered me). It was worse in the morning and early afternoon, and by night the eye twitching was calming down a bit. I finally figured out it was the methyl Bs. After the third day of not taking them, the twitching was gone. I'm still not feeling totally better. My naturopathic dr had no real answers as to why this happened. She refunded my money for the pills that ruined two months of my life. My other dr (RNP actually), said the Bs were poisoning me. She said we should only take B 50s or B 100s, identical mgs of Bs to keep them balanced in the gut. A few years ago, I had tried Deplin because all the drs are pushing these methyl Bs, and I didn't like the way it made me feel at the time, but I wasn't sure if it was it or another med I was on.
Interesting about DIM, I take Nature's Way DIM (2 a day) because I know I have high estrogen for over a years.
It seems my liver did not like all of this? Past blood tests have shown my liver is happy.
Elit3
New member
I had to bump because this^ is a very good question. I find conflicting information on whether folate should be used by undermethylators or overmethylators with no definitive answer. This is confusing. Anybody figure this out?
The Matrix
Well-known member
Elit3 said:
I always use it no matter as long as its in converted form. Have never had any sides as long at kept in moderate dosages. For some people like my self need 5 mgs or more because of genetic issues
pressureSpike
Banned
I ran across this thread when I ran a search for "l-histadine".
I was wondering for people with Rheumatoid Arthritis whom demonstrate Low histamine levels, would that automatically make them overmethylated ??
people with RA tend to have Low histamine levels, I'm looking into this cause my mother and brother have RA and was wondering supplementing with l-histadine would have any benefit for them.
Supplementing with l-histidine relieves some of RA symptoms and wondering if l-histidine would raise there histamine levels to a normal level if they indeed have low levels caused by there RA...
I was wondering if you have any knowledge on this and any response back is greatly appreciated, thanks.
I was wondering for people with Rheumatoid Arthritis whom demonstrate Low histamine levels, would that automatically make them overmethylated ??
people with RA tend to have Low histamine levels, I'm looking into this cause my mother and brother have RA and was wondering supplementing with l-histadine would have any benefit for them.
Supplementing with l-histidine relieves some of RA symptoms and wondering if l-histidine would raise there histamine levels to a normal level if they indeed have low levels caused by there RA...
I was wondering if you have any knowledge on this and any response back is greatly appreciated, thanks.
The Matrix
Well-known member
pressureSpike said:
Simple
Under methylation ---> low serotonin ----> decrease pain sensitivity
Just boosting serotonin helps pain issues why some pain / fibro myalgia meds are very similar to ssri's why I find neurotransmitter testing crucial in these cases and very beneficial ..
pressureSpike
Banned
So what would you recommend to boost serotonin? stress management, avoid stimulants/sugars, consume fatty acids, SAMe, rosea rhodiola and 5HTP?
No to l-histidine supplementation 4 someone with RA then?
Thanks again,
"L-Tryptophan and P5P. <== Very Important. Emotions and mood swings, such as excitement, anxiety, and depression can have very negative effects on the body, including high blood pressure, high heart pulse rate, poor digestion, constipation, or diarrhea. The combination of these supplements is a major breakthrough in digestive health. It works by calming the digestive system, hormones, and all autoimmune diseases. The combination of NSI L-Tryptophan (an essential amino acid) and vitamin P5P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate, the active form of vitamin B6) promotes healing of the digestive system. P5P is needed to convert L-tryptophan to serotonin. The serotonin calms digestion and the immune system. Serotonin promotes sound sleep and can be the cure for insomnia, an awesome side benefit. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter involved in the regulation of mood. Adverse symptoms can include sleepiness and a tired, sluggish feeling. Take one 500mg L-tryptophan capsule and one 50mg P5P capsule twice a day with breakfast and dinner. Do not substitute 5-hydroxy-L-tryptophan (5-HTP) for the pure pharmaceutical L-tryptophan recommended here. The body does not react to them in the same way. Do not substitute vitamin B6 for the P5P. It is not the same. These two supplements may not be available at your local vitamin store. Click the links above to buy them via mail order on the Internet or telephone. Do not skip this important new alternative treatment for all autoimmune diseases."
^ You agree with this quote?
The Matrix
Well-known member
Depends on the case. I recommend 5 htp in some cases other I use trytophan. It really depends with multiple factors and having proper medical history. If you do not know what you are doing you can really f your self up. I have seen it multiple times and almost to point of people being pushed to suicide on the forums. Screwing around with brain chemistry is not recommended if you do not have an understanding of what the repercussions are. Years ago I learned the hard way which almost ended me up in the ER room with anxiety messing around with simple nutrient interactions. One needs to know how to balance the breaking and gas system properly or it could end up being deadly. OTC nutrients in the wrong combination can be more dangerous then some pharmaceutical drugs..
Mr.TT
Member
A single heterozygous MTHFR mutation is not that rare or that much of a concern. At most, I would,
supplement 400mcg of METAFOLIN, ED.
The Matrix
Well-known member
Depends on what is down stream..
Drs are.prescribing the wrong recommendations making.matter worse due.to lack of.education in medical school. Why.people.like.me and a few others are.scheduling world tour to.educate medical professionals.in this.field. I scheduled to speak on Louisiana, as well as a few other city in the united states Few.months from.now.Melbourne Sydney and.UK. Google.Mthfr support and.you will.see.the.organization I.am.associated with. We also host a blog.radio.which I.have done interviews on the.website.
You.need to.look.at the overall.picture before.making recommendations. Why I suggest the 23andme when get.results then contact.me. Sunday there.will.be a panel of the top.methylation experts in the country on blog radio. I will be.on there. Pm for info
jaydollars
Well-known member
Matrix, dude what is with all the periods in your posts, you gotta fix that it's getting tuff to read your stuff
The Matrix
Well-known member
Thick fingers on smart phone is a draw back..
jaydollars
Well-known member
Dude the period button is not next to every letter
The Matrix
Well-known member
The space button is next to period button .
jaydollars
Well-known member
Stop making excuses for your fat fingers and get a new smartphone
The Matrix
Well-known member
Already have one of the larget onnes out there....