chuck66
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Which one would you rather watch and find more exciting
LOL! Yeah, James Toney, a shot heavy weight with conditioning issues. LOL. Thatll show us that boxing isnt good! Rofl. Id love to see Mayweather box with MMA guys in his weight class. Theyd look like total amateurs...you know, themselves.I can't wait to see Randy Couture beat James Toney, then no one can say boxing guys can beat MMA guys...and I would love to see Mayweather fight the guys he has with 4 oz gloves.
ahaha wow, Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance in MMA against any top 10 fighter in the UFC at lightweight. I think a lot of the public, with a lack of knowledge of MMA, don't realize that it's not just the ground game a boxer would have to worry about, but a top level kickboxer or Muay-Thai fighter would have Mayweather on his ass in no time.LOL! Yeah, James Toney, a shot heavy weight with conditioning issues. LOL. Thatll show us that boxing isnt good! Rofl. Id love to see Mayweather box with MMA guys in his weight class. Theyd look like total amateurs...you know, themselves.
your forgetting that if the muay thai guy just had to use his hands, he would get worked....when this discussion comes along everyone puts the boxer in the mma world....if an mma guy had to box with a boxer, they would be ruinedahaha wow, Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance in MMA against any top 10 fighter in the UFC at lightweight. I think a lot of the public, with a lack of knowledge of MMA, don't realize that it's not just the ground game a boxer would have to worry about, but a top level kickboxer or Muay-Thai fighter would have Mayweather on his ass in no time.
Well of course, it's 2 diff sports, but if a boxer went in an MMA fight against a kickboxer, most likey they will lose, but too say top level MMA fighter throw awful punches is ridiculous.your forgetting that if the muay thai guy just had to use his hands, he would get worked....when this discussion comes along everyone puts the boxer in the mma world....if an mma guy had to box with a boxer, they would be ruined
i really don't think the punching part is ridculous at all, watching some of these ufc knocks out looping ugly looking punches, it's pretty bad, chuck liddell is probably the worst, he falls back and the huge overhands are no where near what should be considered a good punchWell of course, it's 2 diff sports, but if a boxer went in an MMA fight against a kickboxer, most likey they will lose, but too say top level MMA fighter throw awful punches is ridiculous.
The reality is Mayweather is not a perfect fighter, boxer sure, but not "fighter", in a man to man gladiator fight the MMA guy beats the boxer soooooo :booty: LOL
Well Chuck is now of the old, but guys like GSP, Sliva, Fedor, Marquardt, Penn, Edger, Faber, Dos santos, Vera, Jones and many more with great punches and even boxing used in MMA is much diff, you can't really put a 4oz glove in front of your face and block it and not be rocked compared to boxing gloves.i really don't think the punching part is ridculous at all, watching some of these ufc knocks out looping ugly looking punches, it's pretty bad, chuck liddell is probably the worst, he falls back and the huge overhands are no where near what should be considered a good punch
Yeah....you can....]...so yeah mma guys can take them down but u can't take someone down who's gonna throw actual combos as you dive at his legs[/I]
It comes down to whatever you like. I've been in this argument 100x before LOL. Noone gets anywhere with it. I, personally, happen to find Jiu-Jitsu tournaments highly entertaining. I think it takes crazy patience, skill, and discipline to excel at a high level of Jiu-Jitsu and I love it. But that's just personal preference. I don't find it boring in the least. To be honest...and I'm not just saying this...I can't even watch boxing anymore. The golden days of boxing are gone (at least for the present) and I just don't find it entertaining. I don't mind a fight going to ground at all. I have friends that do...but it's part of the rules, so you gotta deal with it. Once again, personal preference. I have a friend that boxes a couple times a week, yet he watches MMA religiously. :dunno:again it's putting boxers in mma....i'm not saying i don't like watching it but as mentioned, the whole grappling thing is boring to watch unless their ground and pounding...in a straight up boxing match, no gloves, obviously a boxer doesn't train take downs even though mma practices boxing...the boxer would throw combo's to much more crisp and fast than an mma guy would ever realize
Learn to read. I was saying, if MMA fighters are so rounded and are trained in so many sports, put them against mayweather in a boxing right. Not the other way around. Yeah, in 4oz gloves he would lose. Hes trained from the crib to box, not roll around on the ground with another guy.ahaha wow, Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance in MMA against any top 10 fighter in the UFC at lightweight. I think a lot of the public, with a lack of knowledge of MMA, don't realize that it's not just the ground game a boxer would have to worry about, but a top level kickboxer or Muay-Thai fighter would have Mayweather on his ass in no time.
If you are talking about no holds barred, life or death fighting, hand to hand combat is obsolete. Firearms made it that way. Its called a pistol, get one and you can drop the best hand to hand fighter in the world.Well of course, it's 2 diff sports, but if a boxer went in an MMA fight against a kickboxer, most likey they will lose, but too say top level MMA fighter throw awful punches is ridiculous.
The reality is Mayweather is not a perfect fighter, boxer sure, but not "fighter", in a man to man gladiator fight the MMA guy beats the boxer soooooo :booty: LOL
MMA conditioning is not on par with boxing, I know that for a fact. Since so much extra time is devoted to learning and training a wide variety of skill sets, less time is spent on conditioning and honing. There are just not enough hours in the day. I think Chuck Liddells rein at damn near 40 with a beer gut is a testament to MMAs conditioning.Yeah....you can....
I agree that OBVIOUSLY boxers have better BOXING skills. Regardless of which sport you like better, MMA fighters are more well rounded. That's an obvious fact. Which gives them a distinct advantage. Their conditioning is just as good if not better. And if they are getting busted up, I do not see Matt Hughes having any problem...any time of any day of the week...taking down Mayweather and having his way with him. Maybe dislocating a shoulder or elbow...breaking an arm....beating his head into the ground.
All comparisons about relative skills levels aside, I would say this statement is untrue from the standpoint of physiology and metabolism. The components of MMA devoted to grappling (clinch work on the cage, open wrestling and ground work [BJJ/wrestling]) and the longer rounds make it far more of an anaerobic exercise than boxing: that is to say, the necessary activation of more muscle groups in MMA creates a far greater metabolic load, and one that cannot be compensated for with the transport of oxygen to the cell. The constant adaptations to this type of metabolic load, though, requires not only anaerobic adaptations (hypertrophy of skeletal muscle, innervation, alteration of muscle phenotype) but aerobic ones as well (larger muscles will require greater oxygen, ceteris paribus). These adaptations, as a whole, are called conditioning to stress load. I think that comparison is mostly moot, though boxers are better aerobically-conditioned athletes.MMA conditioning is not on par with boxing, I know that for a fact. Since so much extra time is devoted to learning and training a wide variety of skill sets, less time is spent on conditioning and honing. There are just not enough hours in the day. I think Chuck Liddells rein at damn near 40 with a beer gut is a testament to MMAs conditioning.
put them against mayweather in a boxing right. QUOTE]
Learn to spell. I believe it's a lack of knowledge on your behalf to say boxers have better conditioning then MMA fighters, there's no way your perfect fighter, Mayweather, has better conditioning then GSP.
O wait I know your defence on this one, you're going to say "no no no there is no way GSP can jump rope as long as Mayweather!" LOL
It comes down to whatever you like. I've been in this argument 100x before LOL. Noone gets anywhere with it. I, personally, happen to find Jiu-Jitsu tournaments highly entertaining. I think it takes crazy patience, skill, and discipline to excel at a high level of Jiu-Jitsu and I love it. But that's just personal preference. I don't find it boring in the least. To be honest...and I'm not just saying this...I can't even watch boxing anymore. The golden days of boxing are gone (at least for the present) and I just don't find it entertaining. I don't mind a fight going to ground at all. I have friends that do...but it's part of the rules, so you gotta deal with it. Once again, personal preference. I have a friend that boxes a couple times a week, yet he watches MMA religiously. :dunno:
I agree to a point that people always put the boxers into an mma fight. But obviously you can still punch in an MMA fight...so one could also argue that point is mute. The MMA fighters just have a much wider skill set. I say f*ck that...put them both in the street. That would be the only arena to hold it I guess.
Eloquently put MulletAll comparisons about relative skills levels aside, I would say this statement is untrue from the standpoint of physiology and metabolism. The components of MMA devoted to grappling (clinch work on the cage, open wrestling and ground work [BJJ/wrestling]) and the longer rounds make it far more of an anaerobic exercise than boxing: that is to say, the necessary activation of more muscle groups in MMA creates a far greater metabolic load, and one that cannot be compensated for with the transport of oxygen to the cell. The constant adaptations to this type of metabolic load, though, requires not only anaerobic adaptations (hypertrophy of skeletal muscle, innervation, alteration of muscle phenotype) but aerobic ones as well (larger muscles will require greater oxygen, ceteris paribus). These adaptations, as a whole, are called conditioning to stress load. I think that comparison is mostly moot, though boxers are better aerobically-conditioned athletes.
I am unsure about the weight (no pun intended) of your Chuck Liddell example, as James Toney was an incredibly successful boxer across several weight classes, all the while looking more slovenly than the vast majority of MMA fighters.
Toney was a outright heavyweight and Liddell was a LH. Dont for a second think variety and time replace intensity over duration. Anyone can push through a tough patch, its pushing through maintaining quickness and still outsmarting your opponent thats hard. Sure, there is more anaerobic in MMA, but that doesnt mean variety makes it tougher. Is a pentathlete better than a triathlete? Maintaining a jab into later rounds is tough. Making sure its still quick as hell is tougher.All comparisons about relative skills levels aside, I would say this statement is untrue from the standpoint of physiology and metabolism. The components of MMA devoted to grappling (clinch work on the cage, open wrestling and ground work [BJJ/wrestling]) and the longer rounds make it far more of an anaerobic exercise than boxing: that is to say, the necessary activation of more muscle groups in MMA creates a far greater metabolic load, and one that cannot be compensated for with the transport of oxygen to the cell. The constant adaptations to this type of metabolic load, though, requires not only anaerobic adaptations (hypertrophy of skeletal muscle, innervation, alteration of muscle phenotype) but aerobic ones as well (larger muscles will require greater oxygen, ceteris paribus). These adaptations, as a whole, are called conditioning to stress load. I think that comparison is mostly moot, though boxers are better aerobically-conditioned athletes.
I am unsure about the weight (no pun intended) of your Chuck Liddell example, as James Toney was an incredibly successful boxer across several weight classes, all the while looking more slovenly than the vast majority of MMA fighters.
That was a typo. Telling someone to learn to spell and then misspelling defense in the next post is not a good way to start off.put them against mayweather in a boxing right. QUOTE]
Learn to spell. I believe it's a lack of knowledge on your behalf to say boxers have better conditioning then MMA fighters, there's no way your perfect fighter, Mayweather, has better conditioning then GSP.
O wait I know your defence on this one, you're going to say "no no no there is no way GSP can jump rope as long as Mayweather!" LOL
Mayweather is a freak of nature, literally trained in the crib. I would bet money down his conditioning far surpasses some french canadian fruit loop. When I was boxing, my pulse was into the 30s.
I think you may have misunderstood. It is not about varying the activation of the same muscles, which seems to be what you are implying, but it is an entirely different kind of activation altogether. Your point seems to be that there is only a difference in the degree of conditioning between MMA fighters and boxers - with boxers, in your mind, being superior - whereas the issue is a difference in kind altogether.Toney was a outright heavyweight and Liddell was a LH. Dont for a second think variety and time replace intensity over duration. Anyone can push through a tough patch, its pushing through maintaining quickness and still outsmarting your opponent thats hard. Sure, there is more anaerobic in MMA, but that doesnt mean variety makes it tougher. Is a pentathlete better than a triathlete? Maintaining a jab into later rounds is tough. Making sure its still quick as hell is tougher.
Toney was a outright heavyweight and Liddell was a LH. Dont for a second think variety and time replace intensity over duration. Anyone can push through a tough patch, its pushing through maintaining quickness and still outsmarting your opponent thats hard. Sure, there is more anaerobic in MMA, but that doesnt mean variety makes it tougher. Is a pentathlete better than a triathlete? Maintaining a jab into later rounds is tough. Making sure its still quick as hell is tougher.
Defense is the US spelling, proper english is spelled defence....I'm sure you knew that...That was a typo. Telling someone to learn to spell and then misspelling defense in the next post is not a good way to start off.
Mayweather is a freak of nature, literally trained in the crib. I would bet money down his conditioning far surpasses some french canadian fruit loop. When I was boxing, my pulse was into the 30s.
Congratulations on the low heart rate, real proud of you
As someone who does brazilian jiu jitsu three days a week. I can tell you if you understand what you are watching in a grappling match of two black-belts, it is every bit as skilled and entertaining as a Mayweather fight. It is a chess match. I can guarantee you nothing you see in a drunken bar fight even resembles a skilled mma fight.Mohommed Ali, Smokin Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson...whats there not to love?
Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather watch boxing over MMA anyday. If I wanted to watch MMA I would go to the local bar or tavern about 1-2am and watch 2 drunk idiots roll around on the floor fighting. Someone mentioned earlier that MMa looks sloppy, I agree. Boxing is much more classier and straightforward.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!! french canadian fruit loop eh.
u sir are an idiot.. sure mayweather is a great boxer with amazing conditioning.. but saying he is more conditioned to one of the best conditioned fighters/atheletes in the world is just silly!
do u think that in an mma fight u just shoot for a takedown? u set your take downs up with punchs...this thread is going to get interesting, i like mma don't get me wrong, it's awesome, but thats because it's always on that i watch it, boxing is hardly ever on, that i see anyway, but watching the old ali and frazier fights, old tyson, even mayweather.....boxers would work mma fights, because get this...they throw proper punches, mma guys punchs are awful...so yeah mma guys can take them down but u can't take someone down who's gonna throw actual combos as you dive at his legs
You could take an average 140lb boxer and put him in the ring with a talented MMA fighter, where all they could do was trade hands...I present to you a massacre (in the boxer's favor). I've witnessed it myself.I can't wait to see Randy Couture beat James Toney, then no one can say boxing guys can beat MMA guys...and I would love to see Mayweather fight the guys he has with 4 oz gloves.
Ya I'd like to see Cain Velasquez box with an average 140lbs boxer wearing MMA gloves and just box.....bye bye boxer lolYou could take an average 140lb boxer and put him in the ring with a talented MMA fighter, where all they could do was trade hands...I present to you a massacre (in the boxer's favor). I've witnessed it myself.
Comparing the type of conditioning that each sport takes is comparing apples and oranges. You have to think of a boxing match almost a marathon. The sheer amount of punches thrown and taken in a match is astounding, not to mention the number of rounds compared to that of an MMA bout. However, if boxing is a marathon, MMA is not a sprint, but more of say a 400 or 800m run. You have to pace yourself at a point, but know when to explode and make your move, all while being cognisant of what's in your gas tank. This is especially apparent when you add the element of grappling. To truly appreciate the incredible conditiong of both boxers and mixed martial artists, you really have to try both. A boxer's endurance wouldn't mean **** in a wrestling match, and a wrestler would gas in a boxing match. That's why mixed martial arts is so versatile, as it adds in both elements, and hence why I favor it over boxing (especially as of late). However, to say that either sport's athletes are better conditioned is pretentious.I think you may have misunderstood. It is not about varying the activation of the same muscles, which seems to be what you are implying, but it is an entirely different kind of activation altogether. Your point seems to be that there is only a difference in the degree of conditioning between MMA fighters and boxers - with boxers, in your mind, being superior - whereas the issue is a difference in kind altogether.
Furthermore, that MMA fighters are faced with the same constraints of intensity - ensuring that takedown attempts are still explosive, that leg kicks are still crisp, jabs are proper, etc - only serves to cement my point: not only are they required to maintain speed, accuracy, etc., over long(er) durations, but are required to do so across different instances of physical stimuli. In any case, the greater metabolic load and subsequent adaptation in MMA quite literally means they are more conditioned in the physiologic sense of the word. This being said, I am not making a blanket statement re: the general level of athleticism and explosiveness between sports. Boxers are phenomenally conditioned athletes.
Also, Toney began his career at MW, and was slovenly even then.
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