TripDogs Spiritual Thread

[lukehayd]

As to my post above, I just noticed the angry face at the top. I didn't put that there and not sure how it got there. So I apologize if it came across as an attack -it was not.

Beast20- I have no intent on firing up a pole. I would like to think that all believers would stand and die for Christ if faced with that challenge. Of course I am reminded of someone who said that it is easy to die for Christ but much harder to go out everyday in this sinful world and live for Christ. Where are we making a difference? Are we content to sit behind a computer and talk the talk or are we gonna walk the walk? Day to day.

 

[Beast20]

As to my post above, I just noticed the angry face at the top. I didn't put that there and not sure how it got there. So I apologize if it came across as an attack -it was not.

Beast20- I have no intent on firing up a pole. I would like to think that all believers would stand and die for Christ if faced with that challenge. Of course I am reminded of someone who said that it is easy to die for Christ but much harder to go out everyday in this sinful world and live for Christ. Where are we making a difference? Are we content to sit behind a computer and talk the talk or are we gonna walk the walk? Day to day.

Lukehayd, I have the greatest respect for anyone who would indeed stand up for their faith despite facing hardship or ridicule. And I believe you have the best intention and zeal, and I do commend you for that! Like I said previously I agreed with your intention.

Since this is ''a spiritual thread'', and I like to thank Trip for starting this, It's something nice to have on the board, I would like to indeed keep it spiritual and not shift this toward ''fleshly'' (pride, envy, hatred).

The reason I might have seemingly come back a bit hard, while not against you personally Lukehayd, was only to defend the purity of this thread. Take for example the following fact:

I quote the Amplified bible (because of the depth it gives us on this most important point here at hand), 1 Corinthians 1:10 says:

''But I urge and entreat you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that 'ALL OF YOU' be in perfect harmony and 'FULL AGREEMENT' in what you say, and that there be no dissensions or factions or divisions among you, but that you be 'perfectly united in your COMMON UNDERSTANDING' and in your OPINIONS and JUDGMENTS'.''

What gets to me sometimes (especially when I'm on ephedra or heavy tests) is the question: ''why so many different beliefs and opinions, since there is only ONE truth and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!????''

So, just as you said Lukehayd, ''are we gonna walk the talk?'', I will reply as Paul did, ''like a madman!''

But before we start to walk... how can one know HOW to walk like Jesus walked?

Romans 10:2,3 says: (New International Translation)

''For I can testify about them that the 'ARE ZEALOUS' for God, but their zeal is NOT BASED ON KNOWLEDGE. Since they 'DID NOT KNOW' the righteousness of God and SOUGHT TO ESTABLISH 'THEIR OWN', they did 'NOT SUBMIT' to God’s righteousness.''

Many today, have the greatest zeal. But because they didn't bother digging DEEP ENOUGH, they are claiming to follow the Christ... but in reality, as the scripture in Romans 10 points out, they DID NOT submit themselves to the path of Christ, but to ''THEIR OWN''. While they earnestly believe they are following Christ, they are being mislead by falsehood. And this really is a sad reality when you humbly think about it. Living your whole life, believing you are a believer and follower of Christ, while you are only deceiving YOURSELF!

Again I am not trying to say I know better than anyone else, nor am I giving ''my opinion'' here... Before I started studying the bible, I myself BELIEVED I was a Christian, while I was living an immoral life, hanging out with the wrong crowd and spending most of my young adult life in deep darkness. Once I have studied the truth, it made me FREE from the lies. And I made it MY AIM to share this with anyone who would be open to the Gospel of Christ and willing to make the needed changes in order to ''walk as Christ walked'' - 1 Peter 2:21

Remember the last words of the Gospel of Matthew: (Matthew 28:19,20)

''GO THEN and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
'TEACHING THEM' to observe EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU, and behold, I am with you all the days (perpetually, uniformly, and on every occasion), to the [very] close and consummation of the age. Amen (so let it be).''

If one is walking as Christ, One should TEACH what Christ had TAUGHT one!

And then, and only THEN, would the scripture come full circle ''I AM WITH YOU ALL THE DAYS'' until the end of this system of things.

remain strong Lukehayd and your work shall DEF be rewarded dude We are only here to build one another up and strenghten one another in the ONE FAITH and ONE TRUTH, so that all of us shall benefit of the REAL LIFE! may you have peace. - 1 Thessalonians 5:11 ; 1 Timothy 6:19

 

[Flaw]

Flaw, while I see what you are saying, I see it a little different. The type of cross or pike or pole on which Christ was crucified is not where the focus should be. It is the torture and the life freely given to wash away our sin debt. While the manner in which some people worship is questionable concerning the cross, it has indeed become a symbol of Christ's sacrifice for us regardless of it's origins. How often has God taken something meant for evil and used it for His good? The key to all of it is to worship the Lord and NOT the cross or pole! It is a reminder and that is it. There are practices that merit change and a drastic change at that but I don't believe this is one of them.

I completely agree with you the focus should be on christ's sacrifice but with a image such as a cross it pretty much pushes the focus away completely. Let's not forget that christ was killed on this stake. You can liken it to a electric chair. It was the weapon involved in his death. A MURDER weapon. People bow down, worship and kiss the cross AKA the Murder weapon. Would you be happy if someone wore the weapon that killed your loved one around your neck and worshiped it? How do you think God feels? That's why it matters.

Wearing a symbol that let's everyone know your a christian really is just showy. It's like talking the talk. Only by your actions will someone know if your a follower of christ.

I could ask you a similar question? How often has the devil taken something good and turned it into a tool for evil? How often have things appeared good but when you do a little digging you find the truth and it's not so pretty? It's like that girl you dated that seemed so sweet and then quickly became sour.

It may not appear to be a big deal in your eyes and only you can make the decision whether it is or not but all I can say is it's easy to do something when everyone else is doing it and it's easy to justify something when everyone else does it. The wise wise words at luke cannot be any more true.

Luke 16:10 “He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much. "

 

[lukehayd]

I completely agree with you the focus should be on christ's sacrifice but with a image such as a cross it pretty much pushes the focus away completely. Let's not forget that christ was killed on this stake. You can liken it to a electric chair. It was the weapon involved in his death. A MURDER weapon. People bow down, worship and kiss the cross AKA the Murder weapon. Would you be happy if someone wore the weapon that killed your loved one around your neck and worshiped it? How do you think God feels? That's why it matters.

Wearing a symbol that let's everyone know your a christian really is just showy. It's like talking the talk. Only by your actions will someone know if your a follower of christ.

I could ask you a similar question? How often has the devil taken something good and turned it into a tool for evil? How often have things appeared good but when you do a little digging you find the truth and it's not so pretty? It's like that girl you dated that seemed so sweet and then quickly became sour.

It may not appear to be a big deal in your eyes and only you can make the decision whether it is or not but all I can say is it's easy to do something when everyone else is doing it and it's easy to justify something when everyone else does it. The wise wise words at luke cannot be any more true.

Luke 16:10 “He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much. "

Absolutely, the worship of the cross is wrong! It is the One who died on the cross that should be worshiped! No ifs, ands, or buts! It seems as though (from how I am reading what you and Beast20 are saying) that you see the cross as a symbol of defeat where as I see it as a symbol of victory. Victory over sin, Victory over death and Victory over the debt of sin that we all had.

As for the wearing of the cross, if it is an empty cross, I have no problem with that. However, if it is one with Christ still on it, I do! The cross is empty and the tomb is as well! Christ is risen!! He is not on the cross and He is not in the tomb! You liken the cross to a murder weapon. Ok. Let me throw this out there. How many parents send their sons and daughters off to war and never have them come home? How many of those parents are proud of what their children fought for and wave the flags of the branches of the military in which they served? Jesus went to the cross for us because it was God's will not ours. The cross is a reminder, just as the flags or memorials for fallen soldiers, of the sacrifice made for the lives of others. God was not ashamed of what Christ did. And behold a voice from Heaven that said, “This is my Son, The Beloved, in whom I am delighted.”(Matthew 3:17) How much did God love us? Look at the cross! The pain and torture that He sent His only son to endure for us on that cross is proof enough of how much he loved us! God was delighted with Christ going through with His divine will and the life he had led for the same will! Why would God be ashamed of the cross?

 

[Beast20]

Absolutely, the worship of the cross is wrong! It is the One who died on the cross that should be worshiped! No ifs, ands, or buts! It seems as though (from how I am reading what you and Beast20 are saying) that you see the cross as a symbol of defeat where as I see it as a symbol of victory. Victory over sin, Victory over death and Victory over the debt of sin that we all had.

As for the wearing of the cross, if it is an empty cross, I have no problem with that. However, if it is one with Christ still on it, I do! The cross is empty and the tomb is as well! Christ is risen!! He is not on the cross and He is not in the tomb! You liken the cross to a murder weapon. Ok. Let me throw this out there. How many parents send their sons and daughters off to war and never have them come home? How many of those parents are proud of what their children fought for and wave the flags of the branches of the military in which they served? Jesus went to the cross for us because it was God's will not ours. The cross is a reminder, just as the flags or memorials for fallen soldiers, of the sacrifice made for the lives of others. God was not ashamed of what Christ did. And behold a voice from Heaven that said, “This is my Son, The Beloved, in whom I am delighted.”(Matthew 3:17) How much did God love us? Look at the cross! The pain and torture that He sent His only son to endure for us on that cross is proof enough of how much he loved us! God was delighted with Christ going through with His divine will and the life he had led for the same will! Why would God be ashamed of the cross?

Read the scriptures I posted dude, study the bible, and you will do just fine May you have peace - Philippians 4:8,9

 

[Flaw]

Absolutely, the worship of the cross is wrong! It is the One who died on the cross that should be worshiped! No ifs, ands, or buts! It seems as though (from how I am reading what you and Beast20 are saying) that you see the cross as a symbol of defeat where as I see it as a symbol of victory. Victory over sin, Victory over death and Victory over the debt of sin that we all had.

As for the wearing of the cross, if it is an empty cross, I have no problem with that. However, if it is one with Christ still on it, I do! The cross is empty and the tomb is as well! Christ is risen!! He is not on the cross and He is not in the tomb! You liken the cross to a murder weapon. Ok. Let me throw this out there. How many parents send their sons and daughters off to war and never have them come home? How many of those parents are proud of what their children fought for and wave the flags of the branches of the military in which they served? Jesus went to the cross for us because it was God's will not ours. The cross is a reminder, just as the flags or memorials for fallen soldiers, of the sacrifice made for the lives of others. God was not ashamed of what Christ did. And behold a voice from Heaven that said, “This is my Son, The Beloved, in whom I am delighted.”(Matthew 3:17) How much did God love us? Look at the cross! The pain and torture that He sent His only son to endure for us on that cross is proof enough of how much he loved us! God was delighted with Christ going through with His divine will and the life he had led for the same will! Why would God be ashamed of the cross?

I can take a far more important angle. The thing about the cross is it's viewed as a symbol of christianity, A synonym of symbol is image. You can also view the cross as a image that you associate christianity with. The cross could be viewed as idolatry because of how it's used.

Wickipedia's defintion on idolatry: "Idolatry is a pejorative term for the worship of an idol, a physical object such as a cult image, as a god,[1] or practices believed to verge on worship, such as giving undue honour and regard to created forms other than God.

The cross is a practice or custom believed to verge on worship but note "giving undue honour and regard to CREATED forms other than God. Note, "Undue honor" .

Note what god says in Isaiah 42:8 of the american standard version. "I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images. "

He was also very clear here in exodus 20:4 "Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me, "

Study into the Old testament tells you that Images are quite fround upon when associated with worship to God, Unless God specifically commanded certain statues or images to be made . Think about After the isrealites crossed the red sea they carved this Golden Calf statue(Exodus 32:3-10)God was not pleased with that at all.



Webster says of idolatry. . 1. The worship of idols, images, or anything which is not God; the worship of false gods.
2. Excessive attachment or veneration for anything; respect or love which borders on adoration.

So you might argue that you do not worship the cross but you may have excessive attatchment to it.

Look at what merriam-webster says defining a Idol

1. "a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly : a false god
4. an object of extreme devotion <a movie idol>; also : ideal 2

I see what your saying about a reminder. It's nice to have reminders so that we never forget important events but That's exactly what the lord's supper was all about.

1 corinthians 23 " For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes."

God would be ashamed of the cross for these 2 reasons alone. #1 It's a pagan symbol of man made origin, not of God. #2 it's a form of idolatry.

 

[lukehayd]

Alright, this will be my last post on this issue. The reasoning you lay forth I believe is flawed. Sense some use it as an idol, it should be wrong for all because it will be an idol for them too. Let me ask you this, do you worship money? I would venture to say the answer is "NO!" as well it should be. To some however, it is what their world revolves around and it is very much an idol for them. Just because it is an idol for them does not make it an idol for all. In the same way the cross is not an idol for me. I do not hold it up above the Word or above the Lord God Almighty. I understand that it is an inanimate object. You cited the Lord's Supper. Alright, so how many use this as an idol? Worshiping of the wine (or grape juice) and bread. It is wine and bread, there is no saving power in either one. It is only through Christ that we gain salvation. In summary, if it is an idol for you, then cast it aside but do not reason that what hinders you hinders others. This is as I said my last post because I feel it is leading nowhere and I do not wish to quarrel needlessly. (Titus 3:9)

 

[Beast20]

I can take a far more important angle. The thing about the cross is it's viewed as a symbol of christianity, A synonym of symbol is image. You can also view the cross as a image that you associate christianity with. The cross could be viewed as idolatry because of how it's used.

Wickipedia's defintion on idolatry: "Idolatry is a pejorative term for the worship of an idol, a physical object such as a cult image, as a god,[1] or practices believed to verge on worship, such as giving undue honour and regard to created forms other than God.

The cross is a practice or custom believed to verge on worship but note "giving undue honour and regard to CREATED forms other than God. Note, "Undue honor" .

Note what god says in Isaiah 42:8 of the american standard version. "I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images. "

He was also very clear here in exodus 20:4 "Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me, "

Study into the Old testament tells you that Images are quite fround upon when associated with worship to God, Unless God specifically commanded certain statues or images to be made . Think about After the isrealites crossed the red sea they carved this Golden Calf statue(Exodus 32:3-10)God was not pleased with that at all.



Webster says of idolatry. . 1. The worship of idols, images, or anything which is not God; the worship of false gods.
2. Excessive attachment or veneration for anything; respect or love which borders on adoration.

So you might argue that you do not worship the cross but you may have excessive attatchment to it.

Look at what merriam-webster says defining a Idol

1. "a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly : a false god
4. an object of extreme devotion <a movie idol>; also : ideal 2

I see what your saying about a reminder. It's nice to have reminders so that we never forget important events but That's exactly what the lord's supper was all about.

1 corinthians 23 " For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes."

God would be ashamed of the cross for these 2 reasons alone. #1 It's a pagan symbol of man made origin, not of God. #2 it's a form of idolatry.

Flaw, It's a privilege to have met you here online BROTHER! (I only use the word brother cautiously). Amazing reasoning! You convinced me all over again that my faith is genuine!!!

The true God Jehovah and the one whom he sent forth appreciates such ones who defend TRUTH with their God-Given ability to reason - Romans 12:1 And therefore I give you my deepest respect! I mean, even a 5 year old would be able to understand clearly what you have just written. (Then again, 5 years olds are more humble and open to the truth then most ''grown ups'')

reps to you bro! Stay Strong in the faith brother! And may the True God bless your zeal!

 

[Flaw]

Alright, this will be my last post on this issue. The reasoning you lay forth I believe is flawed. Sense some use it as an idol, it should be wrong for all because it will be an idol for them too. Let me ask you this, do you worship money? I would venture to say the answer is "NO!" as well it should be. To some however, it is what their world revolves around and it is very much an idol for them. Just because it is an idol for them does not make it an idol for all. In the same way the cross is not an idol for me. I do not hold it up above the Word or above the Lord God Almighty. I understand that it is an inanimate object. You cited the Lord's Supper. Alright, so how many use this as an idol? Worshiping of the wine (or grape juice) and bread. It is wine and bread, there is no saving power in either one. It is only through Christ that we gain salvation. In summary, if it is an idol for you, then cast it aside but do not reason that what hinders you hinders others. This is as I said my last post because I feel it is leading nowhere and I do not wish to quarrel needlessly. (Titus 3:9)

But in this circumstance I believe you have to use the logic "guilty by association". If it's associated with wrong doing why would you associate yourself with it? Money is a necessity. It's quite different. (Ecclesiastes 7:12) Your right there is no saving power in the wine or bread. The thing about those objects though is that Christ specifically commanded that we recognize his body and blood with them. Since he commanded it, there is the exception in that case. Like I mentioned in a previous post there are exceptions to images but they have to have been approved by God or in this case of wine and bread commanded by christ. There is no scriptural backing that concurs with the cross. Deep study of the bible will help you realize this my friend! I'm not trying to argue with you. Continue to read the word and pray for knowledge of the scriptures and I guarantee many things will be opened up to you!

 

[Flaw]

Flaw, It's a privilege to have met you here online BROTHER! (I only use the word brother cautiously). Amazing reasoning! You convinced me all over again that my faith is genuine!!!

The true God Jehovah and the one whom he sent forth appreciates such ones who defend TRUTH with their God-Given ability to reason - Romans 12:1 And therefore I give you my deepest respect! I mean, even a 5 year old would be able to understand clearly what you have just written. (Then again, 5 years olds are more humble and open to the truth then most ''grown ups'')

reps to you bro! Stay Strong in the faith brother! And may the True God bless your zeal!

It's been a privledge to have met you also! I think we are on a very similar page on scriptural understanding. I see you've also done some homework It's very faith strengthening to me as well! God bless!

 

[NuclearLaunch]

Archbishop Hannan , who recently passed away, out of New Orleans lived by, "preach the gospel, use words of necessary.". Acta non verbs. What a motto.

I'm not sure if I understand what you all thought about wearing a cross. Do people see that as good or bad? I don't believe that I'm worshipping the cross with the one I wear around my neck, I just believe that it's a reminder that Jesus died for our sins, as a way of victory over sin.

 

[OrganicShadow]

Im gonna go out on a limb here and say something not many people would immediately condone: I'm very fascinated with the relationship of Judas with Christ.

Ever reading his gospel (yes, Judas has a gospel), watching a couple documentaries, and doing a bit of my own research I find that Judas and a very powerful and intricate relationship with Jesus that not many ever knew about. Here's what I've discovered:

This is known as the Gnostic gospel. It seems to be that when Jesus went to preach in each town people would always ask questions and look for depper understanding... but Judas was asking the right questions. Questions that would puzzle the average mind. Puzzles of dualities, daoisms, existence, subjective vs objective... real deep concepts. When Jesus spoke with Judas about the teachings of the Lord... he didnt speak with him in the same way because he knew Judas was a bit more cunning in understanding these concepts.
"Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is possible for you to reach it, but you will grieve a great deal."
That's because these concepts are both utterly distrubing and enlightening to the common man. Similar in a sense to how existentialism is both the most depressing and liberating style of philosophy ever.

SCENE 3: Judas recounts a vision and Jesus responds
Judas said, “Master, as you have listened to all of them, now also listen to me. For I have
seen a great vision.”
When Jesus heard this, he laughed and said to him, “You thirteenth spirit, why do you
try so hard? But speak up, and I shall bear with you.”
Judas said to him, “In the vision I saw myself as the twelve disciples were stoning me
and [45] persecuting [me severely]. And I also came to the place where […] after you. I
saw [a house …], and my eyes could not [comprehend] its size. Great people were
surrounding it, and that house <had> a roof of greenery, and in the middle of the house
was [a crowd—two lines missing—], saying, ‘Master, take me in along with these
people.’”
[Jesus] answered and said, “Judas, your star has led you astray.” He continued, “No
person of mortal birth is worthy to enter the house you have seen, for that place is
reserved for the holy. Neither the sun nor the moon will rule there, nor the day, but the
holy will abide there always, in the eternal realm with the holy angels. Look, I have
explained to you the mysteries of the kingdom [46] and I have taught you about the error
of the stars; and […] send it […] on the twelve aeons.”

Judas saw through all the mirrors and obfuscation and paid a price... betrayal of self and Lord for seeing things he was not meant to see as mortal means.

The Gospel of Judas have a primary theme as Man as God. Man as the Light of the World. Not necessarily as martyrdom - but to be that guiding light. I've found myself trying to encompass this into my lifestyle in bodybuilding, health, lifting, etc. I see it all the time - we as physical sstrengths only as means to the ends which is our spiritual strengths. That our faith is channeled to be the force which drives us for self-improvement and inspiration of others.

 

[Beast20]

I believe that everyone should have their freedom as to what and how ''they choose'' to worship. Flaw has brought forth quite some sources based on both Historians and the God's word itself, the proper way to worship The One responsible for the gift of life today, as well as everything that have come into existance.

The reason I know and agree with what Flaw is saying, is because I have studied the Bible deep enough to realize that if one wants to worship The Creator, Our Heavenly Father, one should do so ''with spirit and truth'', This is based on John 4:23,24. This same scripture states this very very veerryyy important fact: ''Because, the Father is LOOKING FOR SUCHLIKE ones to worship him''.

OrganicShadow brought forth the gospel of Judas, and NuclearLaunch brought forth an Archbishop. Before you continue reading, take note that I do NOT oppose none of those two sources! In other words, everyone SHOULD have the freedom to worship the way they feel best! I AM however going to bring the BIBLE's point of view into the picture, for anyone that wants to worship ''THE FATHER with spirit and TRUTH''.

Our Father is not just some empty and vague being that accepts ''just any kind of WAYS to render Him worship''. God is a Person, with a personality. Just like everyone who was created in His Image also has ''their own personality''. Not everyone's favorite color is blue. Not everyone enjoys Bodybuilding, some people prefer Powerlifting and focuses purely on strenght instead of ''solid physiques''. Some people Just want to look ''FIT''. Some people fast for a week, some people hold the sabbath as sacred, some people see God as One, Some people see God is Three, Some people see God as being everywhere at THE SAME TIME!!! yup, like some philosophers say: ''believe what YOU! want, do what works for YOU!''..... now what about God? What about what God say is true? What about what God SAYS THAT WORKS?''

How's that for a number of ''different ways'' to worship with spirit!!! but what about truth? How many truths CAN there be? A person cannot be wearing a blue shirt, and that blue shirt is red at the same time can he? the width of a door cannot be 1 meter, 80 cm, and 1 meter and 20cm at the same time, could it?

Now imagine if you're dating this girl. And you keep taking her to eat at this chinese place... turns out she HATES chinese!!! She enjoys Sushi rather... but can't STAND chinese!! No matter how hard she tries, while still trying to be nice, she keeps giving you hint after hint after hint after hint that she just don't like the chinese yo! But you're just ''too sure of yourself'' that you're ''PLEASING'' her. You're too sure that ''OH, EVERYONE LOOOOOVVVESSSSS Chinese!!! She just HASSSS to love it!'' that you won't even bother being humble enough to ask: ''babe, I know we've been coming here a lot... but, I just wanted to make sure though... Do you enjoy Chinese? What would YOU like to have tonight?''

The point here, that I'm trying to put in laymen terms, is that the MAJORITY of this world, does things ''THEIR OWN WAY''. Or they just ''COPY PASTE'' what is popular and consider that as ''the RIGHT way''.

The Scripture clearly states, not just with spirit (prayer, rituals, assembling together, singing), but also ''TRUTH''. If one does not care enough to ''seek the TRUTH'', one would only be worshipping with SPIRIT ALONE! This is the very reason why there are thousands of ''Christian denominations'' out there today (not even mentioning the many other hundreds of thousand religions and sects). While there is only ''ONE JESUS'', ''ONE GOD'', ''ONE TRUTH'', thus ''ONE WAY TO WORSHIP'' that according to John 4:23 ''the FATHER IS LOOKING FOR''.

You're never gonna really please that girl if you ''KEEP INSISTING on having it YOUR way'', the same way you're never gonna please God by ''worshipping YOUR way! or your PASTOR'S way''... One has to find the truth for one's own individual relationship with one's Creator!

Jesus said: ''Do not call anyone rabbi! ONE is your TEACHER! alllllll you are BROTHERS (yup even those who claim to be ABOVE the common people in certain churches) , DO NOT CALL ANYONE ON EARTH F-A-T-H-E-R!!!! ONE! is your Father!!! The Heavenly One! Neither be called 'leaders'!, ONE! and only ONE is your leader: CHRIST!'' - Matthew 23:8-10

So back to ''my main point''. Everyone has THE RIGHT and freedom to worship the way you want to. It is the gift of our dear Creator: ''freedom of choice''. And I would never tell you what to do nor what NOT to do. I'll just let the bible speak on that matter, ''IF'' and only ''IFFF'' one is seeking to find ''the ONE and ONLY truth''. So that in the end, you would know ''oh yeah, I had a fair chance to study God's word openly''.

Jesus never forced anybody to follow him. They just ''chose'' to. And they ''learned'' from the Great Teacher. And after Jesus died, they ''CONTINUED TO TEACH what Jesus had taught them'' by means of the holy spirit. - Acts 1:8

So if one wants to wear a cross on their neck, that's fine, you are allowed to. If one wants to place random saints all around the house, that's cool. If one want's the rub Buddha's belly, hey be my guest. But if one sincerely wants to know what GOD THINKS about all of those idea. Remember the bible is LEGAL today. Yup, you will not get fined for having one at home. (at least not here in America that is) And if you study the bible. Only then, can you understand what Flaw was trying to say. That's the only reason when I read what that brother posted, I said to myself: ''This man is a True Christian! He know's the Bible, he KNOWS the words of God, yup... he KNOWS God as ''A PERSON''.

Casein time!!

 

[Flaw]

Im gonna go out on a limb here and say something not many people would immediately condone: I'm very fascinated with the relationship of Judas with Christ.

Ever reading his gospel (yes, Judas has a gospel), watching a couple documentaries, and doing a bit of my own research I find that Judas and a very powerful and intricate relationship with Jesus that not many ever knew about..

I think there's no doubt that Jesus had a close relationship with Judas, after all he was a disciple. He must have been Good at one time to be one. There are many things I don't like about the book of Judas though. The time it surfaced tells me it's not important. If it was ment to be in the bible it would be there. I believe it is because of God's holy spirit that hebrew and greek texts were preserved in such a way that the book we know as the bible came together. All the writings that it contain are the ones that should be there. The book of Judas teaches that Judas somehow knew more than the others and was viewed as a favorite. Jesus only told him certain things because he was special or something. We know that Jesus did not pick favorites. Everyone was on the same level. Judas is also viewed as a hero in a way, like he took one for the team when he betrayed Jesus to fullfill prophecy. It contradicts the other gospels. It doesn't fit a book "inspired" of God. Whose to know if these were real conversations or not and not just how Juda's saw things. What I see it as is Judas's poor attempt to "save face". It goes along perfectly with his betrayal. The book leads you to certain conclusions and none of which feel "Godly". More so they feel like a act of the devil. Just like him to draw attention away from God.

 

[james122]

Gods finger print is clearly not on any of the gnostic " gospels" the only God breathed scripture is in the Bible . To ask " how do you know " is to doubt the very power and sovereignty of the Lord. If you are tracking with Gen 1:1 - the triune GOD making something out of nothing , then it should not be a stretch to assume that he could have absolute control over the holy scriptures and all of its contents .

 

[OrganicShadow]

To ask " how do you know " is to doubt the very power and sovereignty of the Lord.

Point taken and exemplified by both sides. To know and to believe are two very different things. To say someone does actually know would be to say they exist on the same level as God - impossible and how dare they. Should, as man, this occur the reality would become more burden than enlightenment as those truths are only for the divine and demonstrated to us in cryptic/subjective understandings in which we believe to be truth that mortal isn't capable of possessing at that level.

Its the same idea as why Eastern Orthodox do not use icons. To exemplify the Lord by an objective means such as a crucifix is a disservice as it would bring Him down to mortal means. Unfortunately, us as humans, are bound to worldly means of connection in which physical objects such as words, totems, songs, etc express these beliefs. Yet as powerful a talisman a chain and cross may be for one it is NOTHING compared to the power of a subjective faith.