Tren vs EQ, which is harsher on body depending on dose?

[JoeStethics]

What kind of gains? No1 can come remotely close to answer that question for you. Your food and effort in the gym will directly play out your results

If on 350/350 over a 16 week span with a slight surplus after week 6, training hard and intense and resting well, 10-15 lbs of lean mass any realistic?

 

[Smont]

If on 350/350 over a 16 week span with a slight surplus after week 6, training hard and intense and resting well, 10-15 lbs of lean mass any realistic?

No, that's not going to happen on any 1 cycle

10-15lbs of muscle per year is what the most genetically blessed ppl on the planet build.

10-15lbs of muscle, water and glycogen. Yes that's absolutely possible.


Think about it, if we could put on 15lbs of straight muscle in one cycle then we could easily add 30-45lbs per year and in 2-3 years we could stop on stage the size of a Mr Olympia open competitor.

 

[JoeStethics]

No, that's not going to happen on any 1 cycle

10-15lbs of muscle per year is what the most genetically blessed ppl on the planet build.

10-15lbs of muscle, water and glycogen. Yes that's absolutely possible.


Think about it, if we could put on 15lbs of straight muscle in one cycle then we could easily add 30-45lbs per year and in 2-3 years we could stop on stage the size of a Mr Olympia open competitor.

Well you could on tren

 

[Smont]

Well you could on tren

No you couldn't.

It will look like 15 lbs of muscle but it's not.

You can take 1,000 mg of test and 1,000 mg of tren you're not going to put on 15 lb of actual muscle tissue in 1 cycle, well, maybe for cycle lasted like 8 months long

 

[Smont]

Think of what a 1lb steak looks like. You would have to add one of those to your body every single week for the entire length of your 15 week cycle in order to gain 15 lb of muscle tissue

 

[JoeStethics]

Think of what a 1lb steak looks like. You would have to add one of those to your body every single week for the entire length of your 15 week cycle in order to gain 15 lb of muscle tissue

Yeh its true for most cases and especially when you are at the elite level, but my first run with tren i cut for the first 5-6 weeks and ran it for another 8 weeks of bulking hard going into a rebound, i was monitoring with body scans and lets say they were flawed, the increase should be proportionate for the results at least, i kid u not i gained 12 pounds of muscle(like 20-25lbs post cut total and 5 lbs exactly fat) it was the best cycle i ever had because of the rebound after cutting hard for a couple months before i hopped on,
was at 250 test/300 tren till week 6, then bumped it to 400 tren and just blew up and its effects of keeping u dry and grainy even though the glycogen retention is what made up most of my weight after rebounding, but that was the only time i gained that much, later on i would be lucky to gain that in a year as you said.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

One rabbit study on eq showing kidney toxicity . Usually only mouse studies are considered to somewhat carry over to humans and if we considering all animals here, we’re not seeing race horses in studies with failing kidneys lol. Tren is going to be more kidney toxic than eq

 

[Hyde]

For me at the little baby dose like I said it crushed my e2 due to all of the aromatization to e1. Sucked eggs.

I would definitely not run it higher than test until you have went a couple months for it to build up and see how you are responding.

 

[Smont]

Yeh its true for most cases and especially when you are at the elite level, but my first run with tren i cut for the first 5-6 weeks and ran it for another 8 weeks of bulking hard going into a rebound, i was monitoring with body scans and lets say they were flawed, the increase should be proportionate for the results at least, i kid u not i gained 12 pounds of muscle(like 20-25lbs post cut total and 5 lbs exactly fat) it was the best cycle i ever had because of the rebound after cutting hard for a couple months before i hopped on,
was at 250 test/300 tren till week 6, then bumped it to 400 tren and just blew up and its effects of keeping u dry and grainy even though the glycogen retention is what made up most of my weight after rebounding, but that was the only time i gained that much, later on i would be lucky to gain that in a year as you said.

All those body scans and monitors and various methods register intracellular water as muscle. If you dehydrated and lost 10 lbs and took one of those scans and then the next day you rehydrated and took the test again it would register that you gained about 10lbs of muscle

 

[Smont]

For me at the little baby dose like I said it crushed my e2 due to all of the aromatization to e1. Sucked eggs.

I would definitely not run it higher than test until you have went a couple months for it to build up and see how you are responding.

Is that what it is, E1 out competes E2

 

[Smont]

Any1 seen Conner McGregor lately? The untrained eye would have you believe he gained 30lbs of muscle. But in reality he's no longer emaciated at 155 lb, he's gained a little muscle and fat while not restricting calories and fluids. It looks like a ton of muscle tho. Think of a flat tire on a car, you can pump it full of air and make it look bigger but it's still the same amount of tire the whole time. I could pop 50mg of SD for the next 3 weeks and eat a bunch of carbs and my strength would go through the roof and I would gain about a lb a day, but it's not 20lbs of muscle. It's probably 1-2 if I was lucky

 

[Hyde]

Is that what it is, E1 out competes E2

EQ has higher affinity for aromatase than test, but it converts to useless E1. Which can later convert some to E2, but by and large when you see low E2 on an Ultrasensitive assay and very high estrogen on a less sensitive, that’s why. You’re getting estrogens, but not the bulk is estrone and not estradiol (which is what you need for cardiovascular protection).

 

[Smont]

EQ has higher affinity for aromatase than test, but it converts to useless E1. Which can later convert some to E2, but by and large when you see low E2 on an Ultrasensitive assay and very high estrogen on a less sensitive, that’s why. You’re getting estrogens, but not the bulk is estrone and not estradiol (which is what you need for cardiovascular protection).

That makes sense, that's why when ppl run eq as there base they need really high doses.

 

[MatteoCPK]

Hey guys, obviously all of you will say tren is harsher but i meant as in for the effective dose of lets say 200-300 mg tren vs 600-800 mg eq.
The reason i am asking this is just for knowledge for future cycles/blasts, ive used tren before and it is hands down the greatest compound ever but ive been natty for 3 years and was prescriped trt so i will start adding blasts every year or two. Im planning my first blast to be Test and eq at low doses 250/400 and maybe try 375/500 later on (for the AI effects of equipoise i like it higher than test). So my main question after reading tons about EQ and how dangerous it actually is with thickening blood, it being nephrotoxic, and high BP etc.. it seemed to me this drug wasn't as conservative as i thought(i had thought of it like primo) so i started wondering if a basic blast(for the future, not now) of 250 test / 300 tren is actually less harsh on one's body and health than 600 mg of eq with 300-500 test(meaning higher anabolics all round) and even if a bit more harsh it would certainly give more gains and buck for your money and time, as tren gains are worth the time pinning and suffering/side effects(was tolerable for me) while eq seems relatively weaker, especially for the gains it offers compared to tren it seems is what im saying. So if both will thicken blood, raise bp etc may as well go with the one that gives u more gains while wrecking a bit of ur body no? If any scientist/vet/sarm goblin/average meathead/natty vegan yoga instructor could chime in and give us some science and/or experiences please. Also ive had past bloodwork on tren and all was very very well thank god as in weirdly lower cholesterol and just was the healthiest blood work ever when i was on tren which i assume is because i never diet as hard as when im on tren which causes me to drop a lottt of fat while im eating very clean.

Thanks to all in advance

Everyone reacts differently. Tren fucks with me week 2 and then after that it’s smooth sailing. I can sleep, I never have prolactin issues, blood pressure is slightly elevated sometimes 150/80. Nothing that warrants too much concern. The mental sides don’t bother me. It’s a great compound FOR ME. EQ on the other hand, hates my body. My bloods were off the charts bad. I will never take it again. You unfortunately don’t know until it’s too late. Start at moderate dose and get bloods done to see how your body reacts.

 

[Smont]

Everyone reacts differently. Tren fucks with me week 2 and then after that it’s smooth sailing. I can sleep, I never have prolactin issues, blood pressure is slightly elevated sometimes 150/80. Nothing that warrants too much concern. The mental sides don’t bother me. It’s a great compound FOR ME. EQ on the other hand, hates my body. My bloods were off the charts bad. I will never take it again. You unfortunately don’t know until it’s too late. Start at moderate dose and get bloods done to see how your body reacts.

Ya that's weird, but your right everyone is different. But one thing I want to say is I wouldn't call 150/80 slightly elevated, that's pretty high, stage 1 hypertension.

I don't like anything taking my BP outside the 130's. That 145-150 area is where I'm looking at pulling the plug on whatever I'm taking if I can't get my BP back down.

 

[Smont]

Everyone reacts differently. Tren fucks with me week 2 and then after that it’s smooth sailing. I can sleep, I never have prolactin issues, blood pressure is slightly elevated sometimes 150/80. Nothing that warrants too much concern. The mental sides don’t bother me. It’s a great compound FOR ME. EQ on the other hand, hates my body. My bloods were off the charts bad. I will never take it again. You unfortunately don’t know until it’s too late. Start at moderate dose and get bloods done to see how your body reacts.

Btw, how's that cycle going overall?

 

[MatteoCPK]

Ya that's weird, but your right everyone is different. But one thing I want to say is I wouldn't call 150/80 slightly elevated, that's pretty high, stage 1 hypertension.

I don't like anything taking my BP outside the 130's. That 145-150 area is where I'm looking at pulling the plug on whatever I'm taking if I can't get my BP back down.

I thought the same thing. It’s very rarely it jumps to that though (maybe once or twice a week) and when I consulted my PCP, he said as long as diastolic stays constant and 150 is as high as systolic jumps, he wasn’t too concerned with it since I’m young and in good health otherwise.

 

[Hyde]

I thought the same thing. It’s very rarely it jumps to that though (maybe once or twice a week) and when I consulted my PCP, he said as long as diastolic stays constant and 150 is as high as systolic jumps, he wasn’t too concerned with it since I’m young and in good health otherwise.

Is that a morning reading or later on? And what are you most of the readings is the real question…

 

[MatteoCPK]

Btw, how's that cycle going overall?

Btw, how's that cycle going overall?

Im happy with it. My birthday was this past weekend so I

Is that a morning reading or later on? And what are you most of the readings is the real question…

Every time it’s been elevated like that, it’s been midday. Otherwise I’m 125-135/70-80

 

[MatteoCPK]

Every time it’s been elevated like that, it’s been midday. Otherwise I’m 125-135/70-80

 

[Smont]

Im happy with it. My birthday was this past weekend so I

Every time it’s been elevated like that, it’s been midday. Otherwise I’m 125-135/70-80

That's no big deal. I only check mine apon waking. It's when your waking up with high BP you should be worried, spikes are normal

 

[MatteoCPK]

Btw, how's that cycle going overall?

I’m happy with it! Birthday weekend threw my diet off some last week lol but I’m back to it now. Strength gains are coming in nicely and physique is noticeable as well. I have about 6 more weeks left. Started at 230lbs and I hope to end at 245. I’m up 7 lbs already.

 

[Hyde]

Agreed, the morning is what I’m basing it off of. I don’t even want to know my bp in training hits on some of my maximal lower body sets.

 

[Smont]

Agreed, the morning is what I’m basing it off of. I don’t even want to know my bp in training hits on some of my maximal lower body sets.

I've tried taking my BP after a workout and it won't even register most of the time lol

 

[SkRaw85]

Agreed, the morning is what I’m basing it off of. I don’t even want to know my bp in training hits on some of my maximal lower body sets.

If you don’t get a bloody nose while squatting, are you even squatting????

 

[Hyde]

If you don’t get a bloody nose while squatting, are you even squatting????

Man there was literally like tissue in the blood, that didn’t appear to be snot, it was disgusting. Had to clean it off the mat with WD40

 

[match]

Man there was literally like tissue in the blood, that didn’t appear to be snot, it was disgusting. Had to clean it off the mat with WD40

Today I learned that WD40 will clean brain matter off a gym mat.

The more you know!

 

[JoeStethics]

Just pinned my first 1ml test 1ml eq 250/250 today, gonna start 500 eq next week and roll with that until week 8 maybe if i really wanna go balls to the wall i take another ml of test so 500/500( coach recommended it)
Wanted to ask about that dosage there as i dont want water/bloat from test, im tryna look dry for the summer and dont like lookin bad on cycle. Now obviously its all diet and my diet will be in check as im cutting for the first 6 weeks with possibly adding anavar(have it on hand) so when i bump to 500 ill be lean, then go on a slight surplus eating clean mostly. Thoughts??? Or i can inject half an ml of test the second time(so 375 test) as i planned, and keep it in the refrigerator in the syringe?thats what my coach does so wanted some thoughts from u guys and oh, also got ampoules and not a vial of boldenone(cooperpharma) too.

 

[MatteoCPK]

Just like any stack, running lower test is going to give you less water retention thus leading to a less fuller/puffy looking physique. I would jump to 500 EQ and keep test the same and see how you feel/look. If you feel that you look too dry you can up the test…. I’m not sure if I’m understanding you correctly or not, but don’t use the same syringe twice. Just load what you’re going to pin. Don’t load twice as much and save it for later in the week, load half an ml twice a week. If you are going to do 375, split that in two shots as well don’t do 1/3 and 2/3 of 375, make it so it’s half and half. I love anavar especially on a cut, so I would def add that in as well, preferably the last portion of cycle. Looks like you have a good plan tho brother. As always, keep BP and what not in check. Get bloods done if you can as well.

 

[JoeStethics]

Just like any stack, running lower test is going to give you less water retention thus leading to a less fuller/puffy looking physique. I would jump to 500 EQ and keep test the same and see how you feel/look. If you feel that you look too dry you can up the test…. I’m not sure if I’m understanding you correctly or not, but don’t use the same syringe twice. Just load what you’re going to pin. Don’t load twice as much and save it for later in the week, load half an ml twice a week. If you are going to do 375, split that in two shots as well don’t do 1/3 and 2/3 of 375, make it so it’s half and half. I love anavar especially on a cut, so I would def add that in as well, preferably the last portion of cycle. Looks like you have a good plan tho brother. As always, keep BP and what not in check. Get bloods done if you can as well.

Yeh the problem is the ampoules, got my test and boldenone are in ampoules i cant just use 1/2 ml unfortunately, this is the problem otherwise i would do 1.5ml test per week split into 1 ml and 0.5ml injections. Which is why i was asking about storing syringes for a later injection.

 

[MatteoCPK]

Yeh the problem is the ampoules, got my test and boldenone are in ampoules i cant just use 1/2 ml unfortunately, this is the problem otherwise i would do 1.5ml test per week split into 1 ml and 0.5ml injections. Which is why i was asking about storing syringes for a later injection.

Ahhh I understand now, I missed that last part of your post. You can order empty vials on Amazon and just transfer it into that? I’ve had to do that before and didn’t have any issues. Might make it easier than reusing a syringe and worrying about how to store it.

 

[Hyde]

I would get sterile vials to transfer to as mentioned, but until they arrive you can also load half the amps into the syringe for the day and load another syringe with the remainder for the next shot and refrigerate that (remove & let it come to room temp prior to pinning obviously). So you draw up everything in the amps into two separate syringes, one for today and the other later.

 

[JoeStethics]

I would get sterile vials to transfer to as mentioned, but until they arrive you can also load half the amps into the syringe for the day and load another syringe with the remainder for the next shot and refrigerate that (remove & let it come to room temp prior to pinning obviously). So you draw up everything in the amps into two separate syringes, one for today and the other later.

So you think the storing half an ml in a syringe in a refrigerator is clean and sterile for next week’s injection?
Also do u think ill get more water water retention on 500 than 375? Maybe even better for the whole eq crashing e2 thing, and gains will probably be better but wanted opinions on wether 500 test with eq will have me lookin fluffier even tho the eq AI effect should help but dont know if its enough

 

[Hyde]

So you think the storing half an ml in a syringe in a refrigerator is clean and sterile for next week’s injection?
Also do u think ill get more water water retention on 500 than 375? Maybe even better for the whole eq crashing e2 thing, and gains will probably be better but wanted opinions on wether 500 test with eq will have me lookin fluffier even tho the eq AI effect should help but dont know if its enough

If you use a separate new sterile syringe and needle to draw the remaining oils right when you open the ampules with safe technique (swabbing everything prior, clean hands), then carefully cap it and store in the fridge on a clean surface, and switch a fresh needle on for injection, this should be okay. There is a TRT doc on YouTube who said he will have clients with ampules do this if they cannot get a sterile vial, and he wasn’t recommending any refrigeration.

BUT, I’m not a doctor or medical professional, and you need to see if the cold crashes your test. It shouldn’t, but if it does then obviously it’s a no-go. I’d still try to get some vials as they’re a cheap precaution.

More test, more estrogen to manage - mark that. Everyone is different, so how much water you will hold and whether it’s positive or negative (you don’t know how EQ will or won’t impact your E2 yet) is something nobody can tell you yet. You should start with the requisite amount of total drugs you believe you’ll need to accomplish your goal - more drugs, more health impact/sides. Modest cutting requires less total mg just to hold muscle than later very deep in something like a prep, and you can always add more gear later, so I would start lower when in doubt and continually evaluate as weeks pass.