Tren vs EQ, which is harsher on body depending on dose?

[JoeStethics]

Hey guys, obviously all of you will say tren is harsher but i meant as in for the effective dose of lets say 200-300 mg tren vs 600-800 mg eq.
The reason i am asking this is just for knowledge for future cycles/blasts, ive used tren before and it is hands down the greatest compound ever but ive been natty for 3 years and was prescriped trt so i will start adding blasts every year or two. Im planning my first blast to be Test and eq at low doses 250/400 and maybe try 375/500 later on (for the AI effects of equipoise i like it higher than test). So my main question after reading tons about EQ and how dangerous it actually is with thickening blood, it being nephrotoxic, and high BP etc.. it seemed to me this drug wasn't as conservative as i thought(i had thought of it like primo) so i started wondering if a basic blast(for the future, not now) of 250 test / 300 tren is actually less harsh on one's body and health than 600 mg of eq with 300-500 test(meaning higher anabolics all round) and even if a bit more harsh it would certainly give more gains and buck for your money and time, as tren gains are worth the time pinning and suffering/side effects(was tolerable for me) while eq seems relatively weaker, especially for the gains it offers compared to tren it seems is what im saying. So if both will thicken blood, raise bp etc may as well go with the one that gives u more gains while wrecking a bit of ur body no? If any scientist/vet/sarm goblin/average meathead/natty vegan yoga instructor could chime in and give us some science and/or experiences please. Also ive had past bloodwork on tren and all was very very well thank god as in weirdly lower cholesterol and just was the healthiest blood work ever when i was on tren which i assume is because i never diet as hard as when im on tren which causes me to drop a lottt of fat while im eating very clean.

Thanks to all in advance

 

[FloridaMan]

The neurotoxicity of tren makes me say no thanks to it in any aspect lol

 

[Smont]

Tren at 200mg is going to be harsher then eq at 600+mg. This is debatable depending on your definition of the word harsh, but On 200 tren I'm gonna have shitty health markers and, worse then normal sleep and prolactin side effects. On 600 eq my bloodwork looks great and I have zero side effects. Of course that's going to vary from person to person, but I'd bet the large majority of ppl will be healthier with eq

 

[Smont]

All steroids thicken your blood, eq slightly more. But for most ppl it's not a huge difference. Everyone is going to tolerate everything differently. But in general, eq is safer. That doesn't mean it's safer for you though

 

[Smont]

The neurotoxicity of tren makes me say no thanks to it in any aspect lol

Even tho side effects vary from person to person, tren fucks with everyone's brain, no exceptions. Some handle it much better then others, but Sooner or later the bill will come due

 

[Smont]

Sorry I responded in so many bits and pieces lol

 

[JoeStethics]

All steroids thicken your blood, eq slightly more. But for most ppl it's not a huge difference. Everyone is going to tolerate everything differently. But in general, eq is safer. That doesn't mean it's safer for you though

How do they compare to each other as in on worse on the body and is it that you would be doing yourself or myself a favor for goin with eq and test as eq would be much less harsh on the body(harsh as in any permanent damage on kidneys, heart,, etcc)? high bp for example, is tren much worse?

 

[FloridaMan]

Even tho side effects vary from person to person, tren fucks with everyone's brain, no exceptions. Some handle it much better then others, but Sooner or later the bill will come due

Yep, and I got too many mental issues to need to worry about early onset Alzheimer's to boot lol... I'll just poop my liver out with sdrol and dbol hahah

 

[Smont]

How do they compare to each other as in on worse on the body and is it that i would be you be doing yourself or myself a favor for goin with eq and test as eq would be much less harsh on the body(harsh as in any permanent damage on kidneys, heart,, etcc high bp for example, is tren much worse?

Depends, high blood pressure is going to strain the kidneys, eq dosent really raise my BP or jack up my RBC so it's not really straining my kidneys that bad.

There's no concrete answer here. But if I had to bet I would say eq is far safer. I am comfortable using eq at relatively high doses for extended periods of time 16-20 weeks, I'm not comfortable going over 300 tren and I'm not comfortable going more then 6-8 weeks on it. The only way I would be using tren (I'm talking about me personally) is if I had to look or be my absolute best, peaking for a physique or strength sport.

 

[Smont]

And I get prolactin sides very easily so it's a no go for me anymore with all 19nors, maybe with the exception of super low doses 100-150,mg a week

 

[Ironpirate]

Even tho side effects vary from person to person, tren fucks with everyone's brain, no exceptions. Some handle it much better then others, but Sooner or later the bill will come due

Does that go for trest as well? I have tried tren, mtren, and trendione once each separately and at moderate doses. I probably put an ounce of trest in my body though.

 

[Smont]

How do they compare to each other as in on worse on the body and is it that you would be doing yourself or myself a favor for goin with eq and test as eq would be much less harsh on the body(harsh as in any permanent damage on kidneys, heart,, etcc)? high bp for example, is tren much worse?

My theory on cycles these days is pretty simple, pick the compounds that are the healthiest to make the base of your cycle, typically this is testosterone paired with mast or primo if you can get it/afford it. Then when you need a little extra add either eq or nandrolone. If your feeling froggy and trying to max out the cycle then finish it with a oral, or maybe tren if your competitive in something and need that edge.

I need to stay under 200lbs so 300 test is plenty for me these days, at least until I can not worry about making weight classes again.

Then it's anadrol season lol

 

[JoeStethics]

My theory on cycles these days is pretty simple, pick the compounds that are the healthiest to make the base of your cycle, typically this is testosterone paired with mast or primo if you can get it/afford it. Then when you need a little extra add either eq or nandrolone. If your feeling froggy and trying to max out the cycle then finish it with a oral, or maybe tren if your competitive in something and need that edge.

I need to stay under 200lbs so 300 test is plenty for me these days, at least until I can not worry about making weight classes again.

Then it's anadrol season lol

Any thoughts on 250mg/ml and using 2 mls of eq? 500mg/week
Or get the 400mg/ml can inject it 0.5 mg twice weekly?
Is the 400mg/ml legit in ur experience

 

[SkRaw85]

Go with the 250.
400 Is a much more aggressive and harsh chemical profile in the oil.

 

[Smont]

I don't like anything over 300mg/ml for the reason mentioned above, but, eq is one of if not the only one that can be made into higher concentration without all athe added solvents and crap.
So if I knew I was getting 400mg/ml that wasn't full of solvents I'd be ok with that, but I would need to make it myself or know my source very well. Typically the 400and up stuff is crap. All those solvents make for painful injections and those chemicals are not healthy, they drive up your systemic inflammation much faster

 

[Noncompetitive]

I don't like anything over 300mg/ml for the reason mentioned above, but, eq is one of if not the only one that can be made into higher concentration without all athe added solvents and crap.
So if I knew I was getting 400mg/ml that wasn't full of solvents I'd be ok with that, but I would need to make it myself or know my source very well. Typically the 400and up stuff is crap. All those solvents make for painful injections and those chemicals are not healthy, they drive up your systemic inflammation much faster

Oh are you so right. I got some test mix awhile back. 450/cc. OMG, I was literally crippled. Knots, pain, never never again.

 

[SkRaw85]

Oh are you so right. I got some test mix awhile back. 450/cc. OMG, I was literally crippled. Knots, pain, never never again.

Battery acid

 

[Hyde]

Duration probably matters here too, and context of use.

If you are going to run Tren Ace for 6 weeks at 200mg while dieting seriously with lots of cardio, that’s probably going to be healthier on bloodwork than 600mg eq for 20 weeks with a loose bulk while you go up 15lbs bodyweight.

Because if you’re eating tight, doing lots of cardio, losing fat & weight that’s definitely different than slowly gaining weight, no fat loss, little cardio, 3-4x the duration.

 

[Smont]

Does anyone actually know a single person who got comprised kidney function on EQ? Because I don't, and I know a lot of ppl that have abused it. I'm talking about total elimination of other factors. Took eq, kept there RBC and bp in check yet still had a kidney issue? I can't think of a single person

 

[Hyde]

Does anyone actually know a single person who got comprised kidney function on EQ? Because I don't, and I know a lot of ppl that have abused it. I'm talking about total elimination of other factors. Took eq, kept there RBC and bp in check yet still had a kidney issue? I can't think of a single person

I think you’re going to find there are always cofactors in kidney failure. I mean what are you really even asking here?

Does anyone know a guy who never actually got big, took other AAS, who managed to always keep his bp low and blood from getting thick, but happened to just take a couple ccs of eq frequently?

That’s not a useful question. Nobody wants to actually be Jimmy No-Gains that is too goddamn cheap to just buy $500 in primo per year to add to his TRT if that’s all he wanted, a little safe boost.

 

[Smont]

I think you’re going to find there are always cofactors in kidney failure. I mean what are you really even asking here?

Does anyone know a guy who never actually got big, took other AAS, who managed to always keep his bp low and blood from getting thick, but happened to just take a couple ccs of eq frequently?

That’s not a useful question. Nobody wants to actually be Jimmy No-Gains that is too goddamn cheap to just buy $500 in primo per year to add to his TRT if that’s all he wanted, a little safe boost.

No that's not what I'm asking. There's lots of ppl saying eq is kidney toxic lately, the only studies I can find is kidney toxicity in animals and I don't know a single person who has signs of kidney problems after using eq, be it 1 time or 20 times.

I think the whole eq is kidney toxic thing is being blown out of proportion and exaggerated.

So my question is cut and dry, does anyone know of a single person who's bloodwork after eq shows there kidney function going south where your finger can point out eq as the culprit

 

[Smont]

I'm not denying it's kidney toxic or may have side effects. I'm just asking the simple question above. Flat out, does anyone know someone as mentioned above

 

[Hyde]

I'm not denying it's kidney toxic or may have side effects. I'm just asking the simple question above. Flat out, does anyone know someone as mentioned above

I personally don’t, but I am saying they would be a unicorn. Someone who only uses 4-600mg Eq on top of a cc or less of test per week, that doesn’t use other gear really, and does routine donations, and lots of cardio or bp meds, and isn’t over 250lbs routinely, and also ends up in kidney failure.

My guess is that a guy could use EQ in the fashion you’re suggesting often longterm fairly safely. Bloodwork would tip you off and you would know to cut it out before you ever got there anyway. Generally kidney failure in this context would have several compounding factors.

 

[Smont]

I personally don’t, but I am saying they would be a unicorn. Someone who only uses 4-600mg Eq on top of a cc or less of test per week, that doesn’t use other gear really, and does routine donations, and lots of cardio or bp meds, and isn’t over 250lbs routinely, and also ends up in kidney failure.

My guess is that a guy could use EQ in the fashion you’re suggesting often longterm fairly safely. Bloodwork would tip you off and you would know to cut it out before you ever got there anyway. Generally kidney failure in this context would have several compounding factors.

I never suggested low doses for this. I'm talking about guys like you mentioned above to guys who have run a gram on top of there gram of testosterone for 20 weeks. Your adding a bunch of stuff to my question too.

I'm not talking about kidney failure specifically or anything like that either. The question is as plain as I said it originally.

Does anyone know someone who after running eq had impaired kidney function.

It's pretty much a yes or no question, for me the answer is no.

 

[Smont]

All I'm getting at is there seems to be a abundance of ppl shying away from eq lately because they heard it's kidney toxic, and I don't really see much if any evidence that it's more toxic then anything else in real world application

 

[JoeStethics]

how does 300 tren compare to 500-600 eq lest say? (per week)
Any studies or experiences that can confirm that tren would actually wreck ur system more than eq or is it just side effects that we feel? not to mention if both are gonna raise bp and thicken blood, we all know which compound is worth it gains wise.

 

[SkRaw85]

how does 300 tren compare to 500-600 eq lest say? (per week)
Any studies or experiences that can confirm that tren would actually wreck ur system more than eq or is it just side effects that we feel? not to mention if both are gonna raise bp and thicken blood, we all know which compound is worth it gains wise.

Interested to see studies. As far as FEELS, tren definitely takes tears off of your life! But dem gainz……

 

[Smont]

how does 300 tren compare to 500-600 eq lest say? (per week)
Any studies or experiences that can confirm that tren would actually wreck ur system more than eq or is it just side effects that we feel? not to mention if both are gonna raise bp and thicken blood, we all know which compound is worth it gains wise.

Those studies definitely dont exist, but I'm 100% positive that bloodwork will show tren to be far worse at the doses you listed if either was ran for a significant amount of time. As I've already stated, my own bloods on 600 eq look squeeky clean. There's probably thousands if not hundreds of thousands of ppl that have had tren send there bloodwork downhill.

 

[Hyde]

I never suggested low doses for this. I'm talking about guys like you mentioned above to guys who have run a gram on top of there gram of testosterone for 20 weeks. Your adding a bunch of stuff to my question too.

I'm not talking about kidney failure specifically or anything like that either. The question is as plain as I said it originally.

Does anyone know someone who after running eq had impaired kidney function.

It's pretty much a yes or no question, for me the answer is no.

But those guys are also commonly running Tren too at different times is my point. I don’t know anyone using over 2 grams of gear that didn’t ever use tren. But I don’t think we’re talking about fast declines either if there is.

You know how it goes; guys hear Anadrol has caused liver cancer before. So they go around telling everyone it will kill your liver, then eat DMZ and Msten with no more thought.

I don’t really see the NEED to ever use EQ, assuming someone has access to most other AAS. It’s not a good strength drug, EPO can be used for the RBC effects for endurance athletes, GW for acute endurance improvements, most anabolics are better at muscle growth and can be had for similar money. But if someone gets on well with it and bloodwork stays good, roll with it I say.

 

[stankyleg]

Tren, at any dose turns me in to a sociopath, wrecks my lipids and almost all other health markers, kills my cardio, raises bp, destroys my sleep, and made me look better than anything. EQ needed to be dosed high, ran long, raised bp a little, and my red count some. Had a nice effect, but nothing like tren. Tren is the king of effects and side effects. Lol.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I didn't even think this was a question.

EQ is WAY safer than Tren on several levels. I've never dosed EQ that high, it falls under the Test-derivative family, but is anti estrogenic.. @Smont is right, never seen kidney issues from EQ alone.

In fact, I buy Advancedphar.ma Test-EQ and mix and because of the non-aromatizing nature of EQ, along with strength, leaning, and connective tissue benefits. I swear TRT+EQ cured my gyno, ironically caused by a poor Tren Ace cycle... Well that and general TRT, lifting with EQ and other non-estrogenic compounds over ~2 years got rid of it.

Tren was amazing, yes aggression and strength on Tren Ace was off the charts for me, right up there with M1T, just as toxic, nearly, but **** will **** your relationships up. Pretty sure most all roid rage stories of note, are Tren... just Tren.
=
Good watch. Derek talks about the EQ benefits here. He generally agrees with @Smont TRT + PED use theory stated above. Steroid family tree helps to review.
=

 

[SkRaw85]

Tren, at any dose turns me in to a sociopath, wrecks my lipids and almost all other health markers, kills my cardio, raises bp, destroys my sleep, and made me look better than anything. EQ needed to be dosed high, ran long, raised bp a little, and my red count some. Had a nice effect, but nothing like tren. Tren is the king of effects and side effects. Lol.

Yep. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[Hyde]

Yep. The proof is in the pudding.

I suppose the obvious takeaway here that even OP knew already is that Tren is massively harsher and stronger per mg. So the answer to which is harsher comes down to how much you skew the administration to offset that, or how much you need to take to reach the desired outcome.

 

[Smont]

Is there ever really a scenario where someone can say,

I'm going with tren because it's the healthier alternative

 

[stankyleg]

I have no scientific evidence to back this up, and I am not a scientist or medical professional for that matter, but, the kidney damage related to EQ that has been mentioned in this thread could very well be attributed to the increase in blood pressure. High BP is a silent kidney killer. I would also like to add that the time that I took cardarine with tren mitigated the side effects on lipid profile, and cardio endurance. If you were going to take EQ and were really concerned about blood thickening, or high red count, you could institute a high intensity interval training session at the end of your weight training, and do regular blood donations. I would like to also add, food for thought, one of these drugs is used on super expensive prized racehorses, the other drug is designed for animals that are about to go to slaughter.

 

[Smont]

I have no scientific evidence to back this up, and I am not a scientist or medical professional for that matter, but, the kidney damage related to EQ that has been mentioned in this thread could very well be attributed to the increase in blood pressure. High BP is a silent kidney killer. I would also like to add that the time that I took cardarine with tren mitigated the side effects on lipid profile, and cardio endurance. If you were going to take EQ and were really concerned about blood thickening, or high red count, you could institute a high intensity interval training session at the end of your weight training, and do regular blood donations. I would like to also add, food for thought, one of these drugs is used on super expensive prized racehorses, the other drug is designed for animals that are about to go to slaughter.

That's what I was getting at

 

[Hyde]

Is there ever really a scenario where someone can say,

I'm going with tren because it's the healthier alternative

I wish I could like this twice

I have no scientific evidence to back this up, and I am not a scientist or medical professional for that matter, but, the kidney damage related to EQ that has been mentioned in this thread could very well be attributed to the increase in blood pressure. High BP is a silent kidney killer. I would also like to add that the time that I took cardarine with tren mitigated the side effects on lipid profile, and cardio endurance. If you were going to take EQ and were really concerned about blood thickening, or high red count, you could institute a high intensity interval training session at the end of your weight training, and do regular blood donations. I would like to also add, food for thought, one of these drugs is used on super expensive prized racehorses, the other drug is designed for animals that are about to go to slaughter.

Agreed on all points!

 

[JoeStethics]

Thanks for the responses guys, yeh obviously tren is harsher but i guess you guys answered my question that even 250 test/300 tren will be much harsher on one’s body than 300-400 test/500 eq. Btw as for injecting since im tryna get a pharmacist to inject me, the best way would be e5d since he wont accept anymore since he will know its not trt, so u guys thinking 250 mg pharma test(testoviron bayer amp) e5d with 1.5 ml equipoise is good? Or e5d test e and eq 1ml each and then another 1 ml every two days after the e5d injection?
Really wanna run higher eq than test by a bit so in summary
Test 250 mg e5d
Eq 375 mg (1.5ml) e5d
^same injection

or
Test 250 mg e5d
Eq 250mg e5d
And after 2 days exactly another 250 mg of eq(1ml)

The reason i need this complicated e5d approach is so that the pharmacist injects me with pharma testo instead of gettin ugl

 

[Hyde]

I would go with whichever scenario let’s you achieve the required total dosage for your goals.

 

[JoeStethics]

I would go with whichever scenario let’s you achieve the required total dosage for your goals.

does the second scenario seem reasonable? 1ml test and 1 ml eq e5d then 2 days later 1 ml eq
So every 2 days after my test and eq injection, i inject eq which should be every 7th day i guess?

 

[JoeStethics]

Any opinions on storing 1/2 ml of test e from an ampoule in a syringe for 2-3 days if i wanna inject twice a week?

 

[Hyde]

does the second scenario seem reasonable? 1ml test and 1 ml eq e5d then 2 days later 1 ml eq
So every 2 days after my test and eq injection, i inject eq which should be every 7th day i guess?

EQ has such a long half-life you can basically pin it whenever & however it’s most convenient to get the oil in. If you can fit it all in one shot (like if it’s a 3cc syringe) I would just do it all in one weekly go with the pharmacist, based on what you’ve expressed.

 

[Smont]

I mean, technically you could just pin everything 1x week. It's not ideal, but it will still work. I'm sure there have been ppl doing 1x per week injections for years. It just causes more side effects for me so I prefer higher frequency

 

[Hyde]

I mean, technically you could just pin everything 1x week. It's not ideal, but it will still work. I'm sure there have been ppl doing 1x per week injections for years. It just causes more side effects for me so I prefer higher frequency

For testosterone I do better with 2-4 shots per week. But EQ, Mast, Primo I’ve found it doesn’t matter at all for me.

Technically a bolus shot is more anabolic ultimately, so if sides are fine then that is the preferred administration (looking at cycle doses of long esters and not replacement test scenarios).

 

[Smont]

For testosterone I do better with 2-4 shots per week. But EQ, Mast, Primo I’ve found it doesn’t matter at all for me.

Technically a bolus shot is more anabolic ultimately, so if sides are fine then that is the preferred administration (looking at cycle doses of long esters and not replacement test scenarios).

I would agree, I honestly I think it's only testosterone that I need to dose frequently, that and the 19's but I stopped using those.

In a few weeks I'm gonna drop testosterone and masteron down to 100mg each and play with some sarms (because I got a few kicking around), I think I'm going to see if on that low of a dose if I can get away with a 1x per week injection schedule.

 

[SkRaw85]

Regardless, I fuggin love tren.

 

[JoeStethics]

@Smont @Hyde @SkRaw85 and the rest of the guys who responded, What do you think of 250 mg testoviron e5d(is that 350/week?)
500 mg/week EQ
for 16 weeks
and will be cutting for the first 6 weeks and then raise calories later on by week 8 when its summer and will be on a lean bulk and wanna keep water minimal and look lean, what kind of gains would u expect from such a cycle?
obviously obviously with food and training in check, im getting food from one of those fitness places and got lots of time now for gym and rest etc(which is why the tren was whispering in my ear) like its a very unique time where im this free.

What to expect basically? possible anavar might slip in for 4-6 weeks while cutting if i find some meditech anavar here(any thoughts on the brand?)

Thanks to all

 

[Smont]

@Smont @Hyde @SkRaw85 and the rest of the guys who responded, What do you think of 250 mg testoviron e5d(is that 350/week?)
500 mg/week EQ
for 16 weeks
and will be cutting for the first 6 weeks and then raise calories later on by week 8 when its summer and will be on a lean bulk and wanna keep water minimal and look lean, what kind of gains would u expect from such a cycle?
obviously obviously with food and training in check, im getting food from one of those fitness places and got lots of time now for gym and rest etc(which is why the tren was whispering in my ear) like its a very unique time where im this free.

What to expect basically? possible anavar might slip in for 4-6 weeks while cutting if i find some meditech anavar here(any thoughts on the brand?)

Thanks to all

I like testosterone being my highest or=. So If I wanted to run eq at 500 I would want my test at 500+.

I'm not a fan of running other compounds higher.

Also there's certain ppl where eq will do something where it out competes testosterone with estrogen conversion or something like that but long story short there's potential for it to crush your estrogen. I'm not exactly sure how it works but I know it's a possibility.

Just my 2 cents.

If anything I would start them equal

350/350 and then after a month if everything seems fine then start upping the eq, but in my perfect scenario I would be up in the testosterone with it.

Not a necessity for everyone tho

 

[Smont]

I'm also not against experimental **** either. Try it your way and if it's not working adjust it

 

[Smont]

@Smont @Hyde @SkRaw85 and the rest of the guys who responded, What do you think of 250 mg testoviron e5d(is that 350/week?)
500 mg/week EQ
for 16 weeks
and will be cutting for the first 6 weeks and then raise calories later on by week 8 when its summer and will be on a lean bulk and wanna keep water minimal and look lean, what kind of gains would u expect from such a cycle?
obviously obviously with food and training in check, im getting food from one of those fitness places and got lots of time now for gym and rest etc(which is why the tren was whispering in my ear) like its a very unique time where im this free.

What to expect basically? possible anavar might slip in for 4-6 weeks while cutting if i find some meditech anavar here(any thoughts on the brand?)

Thanks to all

What kind of gains? No1 can come remotely close to answer that question for you. Your food and effort in the gym will directly play out your results