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Tr1iump and d1methadrol

yates84 said:
I think both of you are correct. While higher body fat does mean generally higher estrogen it depends on how your body responds to said higher estrogen levels. Needless to say, higher body fat is not ideal when cycling
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I really don't think it matters too much, but then again I don't have the bodybuilder mentality that 90% of you on this board have.
 
I'm at about 13% right now. (Give or take a %) really just want something that will give steady gains throughout an 8week run
 
T-Bone said:
I don't know if it's so cut dry. I'm thinking there is more to it than that. It can't be as simple as the higher bodyfat you have the higher estrogen you produce. If that was true everyone with a higher bodyfat percentage would be getting gyno on every cycle. And what's the cut off point?. 15%?, 20%?. 25%?. I'm sure in some cases it might be true, but when dealing with hormones I believe it's more complicated how people react and not just black and white. I mean their could be a skinny guy that's always extremely susceptible to gyno on cycle and a larger man than just never has a problem.

Not trying to argue with you, just saying that I think their is more to it than simple bodyfat percentages.
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Well your logic is both excellent and slightly flawed or should I say the scope is too limited. It is definitely cut and dry that increased body fat increases estrogen levels. However we are only looking at one piece of the estrogen puzzle. That increased body fat increases estrogen levels. This is a medical and scientific fact. Some people will NEVER get gyno. No matter what unless they started taking straight estrogen. Some people aromatize in different ratios & create more DHT, some people create more estrogen. High DHT will keep estro from binding to the ER in breast tissue because it has a much higher affinity and binds first.

So it has more to do with how a person responds to elevated levels of estrogen. However the estrogen levels are increased when body fat is increased this is just a physiological fact. Estrogen can definitely increase water retention without having any effect on breast tissue. Gyno comes from having estrogen sensitive breast tissue, lower levels of DHT, or other things that can effect sensitivity. The level of that sensitivity varies from individual to individual. However the absence of gyno does not mean the absence of elevated estrogen levels.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Well your logic is both excellent and slightly flawed or should I say the scope is too limited. It is definitely cut and dry that increased body fat increases estrogen levels. However we are only looking at one piece of the estrogen puzzle. That increased body fat increases estrogen levels. This is a medical and scientific fact. Some people will NEVER get gyno. No matter what unless they started taking straight estrogen. Some people aromatize in different ratios & create more DHT, some people create more estrogen. High DHT will keep estro from binding to the AR in breast tissue because it has a much higher affinity and binds first.

So it has more to do with how a person responds to elevated levels of estrogen. However the estrogen levels are increased when body fat is increased this is just a physiological fact. Estrogen can definitely increase water retention without having any effect on breast tissue. Gyno comes from having estrogen sensitive breast tissue, lower levels of DHT, or other things that can effect sensitivity. The level of that sensitivity varies from individual to individual. However the absence of gyno does not mean the absence of elevated estrogen levels.
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Thanks for the explanation. What you explained is what I was trying to say. I'm just not able to express what I mean across the internet as well as some people do.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I said one of those options, but yes on cycle. In all honesty 10mg of nolva a day would be better for gains and stopping gyno than an AI crushing estro that can kill some of your gains.
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What if one wants to take advantage of the benefits of estrogen on a strength/bulk cycle? Eh?eh?
 
jbryand101b said:
What if one wants to take advantage of the benefits of estrogen on a strength/bulk cycle? Eh?eh?
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I think yuo can second me on this but the benefit of Nolva on cycle is that it has an extremely high affinity for the breast tissue specifically, and lower affinity to other AR receptors. Nolva doesn't get rid of estro it just blocks it and more predominately in the mammary gland. Isn't that correct. It has been a long while but I do believe it is specially engineered to target breast tissue to stop breast cancer growth.
jbryand101b said:
Gyno is a result of multiple hormonal imbalances going on was my understanding, and estrogen is just one component
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100%
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think yuo can second me on this but the benefit of Nolva on cycle is that it has an extremely high affinity for the breast tissue specifically, and lower affinity to other AR receptors. Nolva doesn't get rid of estro it just blocks it and more predominately in the mammary gland. Isn't that correct. It has been a long while but I do believe it is specially engineered to target breast tissue to stop breast cancer growth.

100%
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Yep, nolva for on cycle gyno protection and clomid for pct. Try to keep estrogen as high as possible On cycle and try to get estrogen as low as possible during pct.
 
yates84 said:
Yep, nolva for on cycle gyno protection and clomid for pct. Try to keep estrogen as high as possible On cycle and try to get estrogen as low as possible during pct.
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So how much nolva is needed for 50mg of trest ED? Hmm I was gonna use adex eod
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think yuo can second me on this but the benefit of Nolva on cycle is that it has an extremely high affinity for the breast tissue specifically, and lower affinity to other AR receptors. Nolva doesn't get rid of estro it just blocks it and more predominately in the mammary gland. Isn't that correct. It has been a long while but I do believe it is specially engineered to target breast tissue to stop breast cancer growth.

100%
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Yup, but I think you're meaning er
 
rascal14 said:
What's a sufficient dose of Nolva on cycle to prevent growth? 10mg ed, 20mg ed, 10mg eod?
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I would start with 10mg ed and adjust as needed
 
So on cycle estro is somewhat beneficial as long as sides aren't out of control??
 
JONimal said:
So on cycle estro is somewhat beneficial as long as sides aren't out of control??
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Yep, very benificial. Estrogen cushions joints, plays a big role in libido, and plays a role in building muscle on cycle
 
T-Bone said:
I think the majority of people miss out by running anti-e on cycle at too high a dosage...
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I've made that mistake before, it is definitely a common mistake. I think it's the fact that most people are taught that estrogen is bad and that it needs to be crushed. Gyno scares guys into over using ai's as well. Was looking at a thread earlier where a guy wanted to use exemestane at 12.5mg eod with 15mg of osta from the jump! Just another big piece of misinformation
 
yates84 said:
I've made that mistake before, it is definitely a common mistake. I think it's the fact that most people are taught that estrogen is bad and that it needs to be crushed. Gyno scares guys into over using ai's as well. Was looking at a thread earlier where a guy wanted to use exemestane at 12.5mg eod with 15mg of osta from the jump! Just another big piece of misinformation
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Yeppers. It's definitely a mis-conception some people have that estrogen is evil.
 
T-Bone said:
Yeppers. It's definitely a mis-conception some people have that estrogen is evil.
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First time i ran nova it was at 40 mg boy was taht a bad idea :/ i like adex on some of my insane cycles near the end . Low dose .5 or even 1 eod .
 
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guys, quick Q'....currently im taking 50mg clomid tablets, but will switch to 25mg, so my Q' is, if i cut it in half, does the half remaining still will work 24 hours later???

Im pretty sure I read at some thread that the best bet is to cut a new one each day...
 
1kerry said:
guys, quick Q'....currently im taking 50mg clomid tablets, but will switch to 25mg, so my Q' is, if i cut it in half, does the half remaining still will work 24 hours later???

Im pretty sure I read at some thread that the best bet is to cut a new one each day...
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Why? I need an explanation on this one, I always just use the other half the next day
 
1kerry said:
guys, quick Q'....currently im taking 50mg clomid tablets, but will switch to 25mg, so my Q' is, if i cut it in half, does the half remaining still will work 24 hours later???

Im pretty sure I read at some thread that the best bet is to cut a new one each day...
Click to expand...

Ive done this during a taper quite a few times same results. Just cut one use half next day use other half .

I take mine b4 bed for best results, some take first thing am ...
 
Volvo140G said:
Since this is now a random thread... hulk, how'd the yeti wind up?
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Yeti was awesome honestly put on 12 solid lbs but put on 10 lbs of fat over it . The feeling is there with that one. Im on a pct now after 8 months doing 8 weeks total . 4 clomid 4 nolva . Then taking 4 weeks off on top of that. 12 weeks total. Got blood work back i was surprised to see my total test and my e were great. End of 12 weeks ill b getting more blood work . Then maybe just maybe spring time ill run test and tren ace both im . Going for 6 mnths to a year off orals . Yeti was all too easy. And most impressive. I'd only recommend it to the guys with a ton of experience. Only sides i had was aggression acne and a small loss of coping skills at work. Volvo140G it was definitely something i would do again just with a test base maybe test e started 2 to 3 weeks prior to the Yeti.
 
bighulksmash said:
Yeti was awesome honestly put on 12 solid lbs but put on 10 lbs of fat over it . The feeling is there with that one. Im on a pct now after 8 months doing 8 weeks total . 4 clomid 4 nolva . Then taking 4 weeks off on top of that. 12 weeks total. Got blood work back i was surprised to see my total test and my e were great. End of 12 weeks ill b getting more blood work . Then maybe just maybe spring time ill run test and tren ace both im . Going for 6 mnths to a year off orals . Yeti was all too easy. And most impressive. I'd only recommend it to the guys with a ton of experience. Only sides i had was aggression acne and a small loss of coping skills at work. Volvo140G it was definitely something i would do again just with a test base maybe test e started 2 to 3 weeks prior to the Yeti.
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You going on a cut while during pct and whatever off time right? That's a lot of fat on top of muscle gains haha
 
zman86 said:
You going on a cut while during pct and whatever off time right? That's a lot of fat on top of muscle gains haha
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Yes ill be on a solid cut until my bf% is around 15. Then i want to run a 12 week test cycle no orals for awhile. Lots of seafood and dark greens every day. This time ill eat clean no quarter pounders.no Chinese food. Id like to mix physique and bb for a skinnier leaner look.
 
yates84 said:
Why? I need an explanation on this one, I always just use the other half the next day
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No data to support that statement, just searched it again and no info, maybe I read it wrong, thats why Im asking...thanks for your support bro!
 
1kerry said:
No data to support that statement, just searched it again and no info, maybe I read it wrong, thats why Im asking...thanks for your support bro!
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Ok, was just curious. Would be a shame to waste pharma grade clomid!
 
1kerry said:
guys, quick Q'....currently im taking 50mg clomid tablets, but will switch to 25mg, so my Q' is, if i cut it in half, does the half remaining still will work 24 hours later???

Im pretty sure I read at some thread that the best bet is to cut a new one each day...
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No just use the other half the next day or even just take one 50 EOD it isn't going to matter with the long half life.

yates84 said:
Why? I need an explanation on this one, I always just use the other half the next day
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One can only assume someone was using research capsules or something. A clomid tab is just pressed powder. No time release or anything fancy to change how it should be ingested.

bighulksmash said:
Ive done this during a taper quite a few times same results. Just cut one use half next day use other half .

I take mine b4 bed for best results, some take first thing am ...
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With the long half life it really becomes a moot point by the second dose. We are no longer working on the bodies natural rhythms when using a SERM to increase test production LH stays elevated from the SERM.
 
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Guys!! Its Here! the gainz are here!!

Cycle
1-6 weeks Mass GH
1-8 weeks Tr1umph
1-8 weeks Dermacrine
1-8 weeks Ar1macare Pro
6-8 weeks Follidrone

PCT
1-6 weeks Super PCT
1-6 weeks Follidrone
3-6 weeks DermaStrength
 
Misfits88 said:
Invalid Link Removed

Guys!! Its Here! the gainz are here!!

Cycle
1-6 weeks Mass GH
1-8 weeks Tr1umph
1-8 weeks Dermacrine
1-8 weeks Ar1macare Pro
6-8 weeks Follidrone

PCT
1-6 weeks Super PCT
1-6 weeks Follidrone
3-6 weeks DermaStrength
Click to expand...

It's... beautiful! :hump:

Do you have a SERM for PCT too? Seems called for, especially with Tr1umph. And are you running the Ar1macare at half dose, or do you have another bottle?
 
I have another bottle for 8 week total. I also have Rebirth (natural SERM), viron and letrone. But I dont need Letrone as Super pct already has two AIs and this cycle is very low aromatizing. Probably wont use viron either as again Super PCT already has free test boosting ingredients.
 
Misfits88 said:
nov 1st. I just finished a 1-andro 4AD cycle so gonna take a few weeks before I start this one
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Don't short change yourself on off time! Time on + pct = time off. Give your receptors and your hpta a break for a while
 
oh haha i read that wrong and also forgot how to math for a moment. nov 1st would be 7 weeks off time so i guess mid nov early dec should be my start date
 
Rebirth seems to be a solid product from what I have been reading, do we not have faith in this? If you guys honestly dont think thats gonna work post your concerns. Mr. Kleen posted some very informative stuff in this thread which i took into account. I didnt think this cycle was crazy harsh seeing as it does not aromatize too much so not much e would be lingering around to need pharma/rc SERM.
 
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