Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

[ax1]

Ignorant statements by a disgruntled civilian. Get your information somewhere OTHER than the media. Don't insult me as well, I have seen documentation that you have not. Spoken with certain people that had their boots on the ground that you haven't. Go post your bull**** in the comments sections of CNN, Fox News, or other website. I'm just stating the facts. And the facts are based on intelligence gathered from shipments across the Iran/Iraq border intercepted via 18X forces on the ground. Not that you know what the MOS 18X is. Iran and Al Qaeda have a lot to do with each other. To say otherwise is foolish. Keep telling yourself otherwise though, it's okay.

Oh please..Im going to get my facts from you, lol

Are you getting intelligence on the shipments of opium that the military (and this is on record) helps grow too? I wanna know who is first to have their hands on it after its exported.

Also...do you get a chance to get intelligence for the Pentagon guest of honor who was a top Al Queda chief Anwar al-Awlaki that the CIA was protecting from the FBI who wanted to interrogate him?

 

[ax1]

Ignorant statements by a disgruntled civilian. Get your information somewhere OTHER than the media. Don't insult me as well, I have seen documentation that you have not. Spoken with certain people that had their boots on the ground that you haven't. Go post your bull**** in the comments sections of CNN, Fox News, or other website. I'm just stating the facts. And the facts are based on intelligence gathered from shipments across the Iran/Iraq border intercepted via 18X forces on the ground. Not that you know what the MOS 18X is. Iran and Al Qaeda have a lot to do with each other. To say otherwise is foolish. Keep telling yourself otherwise though, it's okay.

You being new here just to post in my thread tells me you may be involved as a Internment specialist.

And I dont waste my time with CNN, Ive been reading your manuals, declassified documents and also know people in boots too that I care for and love, jeez. Not everybody in your position see's everything the same.

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How to stage terror attacks official Army field manual
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[ax1]

Ignorant statements by a disgruntled civilian. Get your information somewhere OTHER than the media. Don't insult me as well, I have seen documentation that you have not. Spoken with certain people that had their boots on the ground that you haven't. Go post your bull**** in the comments sections of CNN, Fox News, or other website. I'm just stating the facts. And the facts are based on intelligence gathered from shipments across the Iran/Iraq border intercepted via 18X forces on the ground. Not that you know what the MOS 18X is. Iran and Al Qaeda have a lot to do with each other. To say otherwise is foolish. Keep telling yourself otherwise though, it's okay.

The CIA’s Libya Rebels: The Same Terrorists who Killed US, NATO Troops in Iraq


2007 West Point Study Shows Benghazi-Darnah-Tobruk Area was a World Leader in Al Qaeda Suicide Bomber Recruitment


Webster G. Tarpley, Ph.D.
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March 24, 2011

Washington DC, March 24, 2011 — The current military attack on Libya has been motivated by UN Security Council resolution 1973 with the need to protect civilians. Statements by President Obama, British Prime Minister Cameron, French President Sarkozy, and other leaders have stressed the humanitarian nature of the intervention, which is said to aim at preventing a massacre of pro-democracy forces and human rights advocates by the Qaddafi regime.

But at the same time, many commentators have voiced anxiety because of the mystery which surrounds the anti-Qaddafi transitional government which emerged at the beginning of March in the city of Benghazi, located in the Cyrenaica district of north-eastern Libya. This government has already been recognized by France and Portugal as the sole legitimate representative of the Libyan people. The rebel council seems to be composed of just over 30 delegates, many of whom are enveloped in obscurity. In addition, the names of more than a dozen members of the rebel council are being kept secret, allegedly to protect them from the vengeance of Qaddafi. But there may be other reasons for the anonymity of these figures. Despite much uncertainty, the United Nations and its several key NATO countries, including the United States, have rushed forward to assist the armed forces of this rebel regime with air strikes, leading to the loss of one or two coalition aircraft and the prospect of heavier losses to come, especially if there should be an invasion. It is high time that American and European publics learned something more about this rebel regime which is supposed to represent a democratic and humanitarian alternative to Gaddafi.
The rebels are clearly not civilians, but an armed force. What kind of an armed force?

Since many of the rebel leaders are so difficult to research from afar, and since a sociological profile of the rebels cannot be done on the ground in the midst of warfare, perhaps the typical methods of social history can be called on for help. Is there a way for us to gain deeper insight into the climate of opinion which prevails in such northeastern Libyan cities as Benghazi, Tobruk, and Darnah, the main population centers of the rebellion?
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It turns out that there is, in the form of a December 2007 West Point study examining the background of foreign guerrilla fighters — jihadis or mujahedin, including suicide bombers — crossing the Syrian border into Iraq during the 2006-2007 timeframe, under the auspices of the international terrorist organization Al Qaeda. This study is based on a mass of about 600 Al Qaeda personnel files which were captured by US forces in the fall of 2007, and analyzed at West Point using a methodology which we will discuss after having presented the main findings.

The resulting study[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] permits us to make important findings about the mentality and belief structures of the northeastern Libyan population that is furnishing the basis for the rebellion, permitting important conclusions about the political nature of the anti-Qaddafi revolt in these areas.


Darnah, northeast Libya: World Capital of Jihadis

The most striking finding which emerges from the West Point study is that the corridor which goes from Benghazi to Tobruk, passing through the city of Darnah (also transliterated as Derna) them represents one of the greatest concentrations of jihadi terrorists to be found anywhere in the world, and by some measures can be regarded as the leading source of suicide bombers anywhere on the planet. Darnah, with one terrorist fighter sent into Iraq to kill Americans for every 1,000 to 1,500 persons of population, emerges as suicide bomber heaven, easily surpassing the closest competitor, which was Riyad, Saudi Arabia.

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According to West Point authors Joseph Felter and Brian Fishman, Saudi Arabia took first place as regards absolute numbers of jihadis sent to combat the United States and other coalition members in Iraq during the time frame in question. Libya, a country less than one fourth as populous, took second place. Saudi Arabia sent 41% of the fighters. According to Felter and Fishman, “Libya was the next most common country of origin, with 18.8% (112) of the fighters listing their nationality stating they hailed from Libya.” Other much larger countries were far behind: “Syria, Yemen, and Algeria were the next most common origin countries with 8.2% (49), 8.1% (48), and 7.2% (43), respectively. Moroccans accounted for 6.1% (36) of the records and Jordanians 1.9% (11).”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

This means that almost one fifth of the foreign fighters entering Iraq across the Syrian border came from Libya, a country of just over 6 million people. A higher proportion of Libyans were interested in fighting in Iraq than any other country contributing mujahedin. Felter and Fishman point out: “Almost 19 percent of the fighters in the Sinjar Records came from Libya alone. Furthermore, Libya contributed far more fighters per capita than any other nationality in the Sinjar Records, including Saudi Arabia.” (See the chart from the West Point report, page 9)[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

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But since the Al Qaeda personnel files contain the residence or hometown of the foreign fighters in question, we can determine that the desire to travel to Iraq to kill Americans was not evenly distributed across Libya, but was highly concentrated precisely in those areas around Benghazi which are today the epicenters of the revolt against Colonel Gaddafi which the US, Britain, France, and others are so eagerly supporting.


As Daya Gamage of the Asia Tribune comments in a recent article on the West Point study, “…alarmingly for Western policymakers, most of the fighters came from eastern Libya, the center of the current uprising against Muammar el-Qaddafi. The eastern Libyan city of Darnah sent more fighters to Iraq than any other single city or town, according to the West Point report. It noted that 52 militants came to Iraq from Darnah, a city of just 80,000 people (the second-largest source of fighters was Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, which has a population of more than 4 million). Benghazi, the capital of Libya’s provisional government declared by the anti-Qaddafi rebels, sent in 21 fighters, again a disproportionate number of the whole.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] Obscure Darnah edged out metropolitan Riyadh by 52 fighters to 51. Qaddafi’s stronghold of Tripoli, by contrast, barely shows up in the statistics at all. (See chart from West Point report, page 12)

What explains this extraordinary concentration of anti-American fighters in Benghazi and Darnah? The answer seems related to extremist schools of theology and politics which flourished in these areas. As the West Point report notes: “Both Darnah and Benghazi have long been associated with Islamic militancy in Libya.” These areas are in theological and tribal conflict with the central government of Colonel Gaddafi, in addition to being politically opposed to him. Whether such a theological conflict is worth the deaths of still more American and European soldiers is a question which needs urgently to be answered.

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Felter and Fishman remark that “The vast majority of Libyan fighters that included their hometown in the Sinjar Records resided in the country’s northeast, particularly the coastal cities of Darnah 60.2% (52) and Benghazi 23.9% (21). Both Darnah and Benghazi have long been associated with Islamic militancy in Libya, in particular for an uprising by Islamist organizations in the mid-1990s. The Libyan government blamed the uprising on ‘infiltrators from the Sudan and Egypt’ and one group—the Libyan Fighting Group (jama-ah al-libiyah al-muqatilah)—claimed to have Afghan veterans in its ranks. The Libyan uprisings became extraordinarily violent.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

Northeastern Libya: Highest Density of Suicide Bombers

Another remarkable feature of the Libyan contribution to the war against US forces inside Iraq is the marked propensity of the northeastern Libyans to choose the role of suicide bomber as their preferred method of struggle. As the West Point study states, “Of the 112 Libyans in the Records, 54.4% (61) listed their ‘work.’ Fully 85.2% (51) of these Libyan fighters listed “suicide bomber” as their work in Iraq.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] This means that the northeastern Libyans were far more apt to choose the role of suicide bomber than those from any other country: “Libyan fighters were much more likely than other nationalities to be listed as suicide bombers (85% for Libyans, 56% for all others).”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

The anti-Qaddafi Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) Merges with al Qaeda, 2007

The specific institutional basis for the recruitment of guerrilla fighters in northeastern Libya is associated with an organization which previously called itself the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG). During the course of 2007, the LIFG declared itself an official subsidiary of al Qaeda, later assuming the name of Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM). As a result of this 2007 merger, an increased number of guerrilla fighters arrived in Iraq from Libya. According to Felter and Fishman, “The apparent surge in Libyan recruits traveling to Iraq may be linked the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group’s (LIFG) increasingly cooperative relationship with al-Qaeda, which culminated in the LIFG officially joining al-Qaeda on November 3, 2007.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] This merger is confirmed by other sources: A 2008 statement attributed to Ayman al-Zawahiri claimed that the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group has joined al-Qaeda.[SUP]Invalid Link Removed

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Terrorist “Emir” Touts Key Role of Benghazi, Darnah in al Qaeda

The West Point study makes clear that the main bulwarks of the LIFG and of the later AQIM were the twin cities of Benghazi and Darnah. This is documented in a statement by Abu Layth al-Libi, the self-styled “Emir” of the LIFG, who later became a top official of al Qaeda. At the time of the 2007 merger, “Abu Layth al-Libi, LIFG’s Emir, reinforced Benghazi and Darnah’s importance to Libyan jihadis in his announcement that LIFG had joined al-Qa’ida, saying: ‘It is with the grace of God that we were hoisting the banner of jihad against this apostate regime under the leadership of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which sacrificed the elite of its sons and commanders in combating this regime whose blood was spilled on the mountains of Darnah, the streets of Benghazi, the outskirts of Tripoli, the desert of Sabha, and the sands of the beach.’”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

This 2007 merger meant that the Libyan recruits for Al Qaeda became an increasingly important part of the activity of this organization as a whole, shifting the center of gravity to some degree away from the Saudis and Egyptians who had previously been most conspicuous. As Felter and Fishman comment, “Libyan factions (primarily the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group) are increasingly important in al-Qa’ida. The Sinjar Records offer some evidence that Libyans began surging into Iraq in larger numbers beginning in May 2007. Most of the Libyan recruits came from cities in northeast Libya, an area long known for jihadi-linked militancy.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

The December 2007 West Point study concludes by formulating some policy options for the United States government. One approach, the authors suggest, would be for the United States to cooperate with existing Arab governments against the terrorists. As Felter and Fishman write, “The Syrian and Libyan governments share the United States’ concerns about violent salafi-jihadi ideology and the violence perpetrated by its adherents. These governments, like others in the Middle East, fear violence inside their borders and would much rather radical elements go to Iraq rather than cause unrest at home. U.S. and Coalition efforts to stem the flow of fighters into Iraq will be enhanced if they address the entire logistical chain that supports the movement of these individuals—beginning in their home countries — rather than just their Syrian entry points. The U.S. may be able to increase cooperation from governments to stem the flow of fighters into Iraq by addressing their concerns about domestic jihadi violence.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] Given the course of subsequent events, we are on firm ground in concluding that this option was not the one selected, neither in the closing years of the Bush administration nor during the first half of the Obama administration.

The West Point study also offers another, more sinister perspective. Felter and Fishman hint that it might be possible to use the former LIFG components of Al Qaeda against the government of Colonel Qaddafi in Libya, in essence creating a de facto alliance between the United States and a segment of the terrorist organization. The West Point report notes: “The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group’s unification with al-Qa’ida and its apparent decision to prioritize providing logistical support to the Islamic State of Iraq is likely controversial within the organization. It is likely that some LIFG factions still want to prioritize the fight against the Libyan regime, rather than the fight in Iraq. It may be possible to exacerbate schisms within LIFG, and between LIFG’s leaders and al-Qa’ida’s traditional Egyptian and Saudi power-base.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] This suggests the US policy we see today, that of allying with the obscurantist and reactionary al Qaeda fanatics in Libya against the Nasserist modernizer Qaddafi.

Arming the Rebels: The Experience of Afghanistan

Looking back at the tragic experience of US efforts to incite the population of Afghanistan against the Soviet occupation in the years after 1979, it should be clear that the policy of the Reagan White House to arm the Afghan mujahedin with Stinger missiles and other modern weapons turned out to be highly destructive for the United States. As current Defense Secretary Robert Gates comes close to admitting in his memoirs, Al Qaeda was created during those years by the United States as a form of Arab Legion against the Soviet presence, with long-term results which have been highly lamented.

Today, it is clear that the United States is providing modern weapons for the Libyan rebels through Saudi Arabia and across the Egyptian border with the active assistance of the Egyptian army and of the newly installed pro-US Egyptian military junta.[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] This is a direct violation of UN Security Council resolution 1973, which calls for a complete arms embargo on Libya. The assumption is that these weapons will be used against Gaddafi in the coming weeks. But, given the violently anti-American nature of the population of northeast Libya that is now being armed, there is no certainty that these weapons will not be soon turned against those who have provided them.
A broader problem is represented by the conduct of the future Libyan government dominated by the current rebel council with its large current majority of northeastern Islamists, or of a similar government of a future Cyrenaica rump state. To the extent that such regimes will have access to oil revenues, obvious problems of international security are posed. Gamage wonders: “If the rebellion succeeds in toppling the Qaddafi regime it will have direct access to the tens of billions of dollars that Qaddafi is believed to have squirreled away in overseas accounts during his four-decade rule.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] Given the northeast Libyan mentality, we can imagine what such revenues might be used for.

 

[ax1]

Part II

Rebel Leaders Jalil and Younis, Plus Most of Rebel Council are Members of the al Qaeda-linked Harabi Tribe

The result of the present inquiry is that the Libyan branch of Al Qaeda represents a continuum with the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group centered in Darnah and Benghazi. The ethnic base of the Libyan Islamic fighting group is apparently to be found in the anti-Qaddafi Harabi tribe, the tribe which makes up the vast majority of the rebel council including the two dominant rebel leaders, Abdul Fatah Younis and Mustafa Abdul Jalil. The evidence thus suggests that the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, the elite of the Harabi tribe, and the rebel council supported by Obama all overlap for all practical purposes. As the late Foreign Minister of Guyana Fred Wills, a real fighter against imperialism and neo-colonialism, taught me many years ago, political formations in developing countries (and not just there) are often a mask for ethnic and religious *****ries; so it is in Libya. The rebellion against Qaddafi is a toxic brew compounded of fanatical hatred of Qaddafi, Islamism, tribalism, and localism. From this point of view, Obama has foolishly chosen to take sides in a tribal war.

When Hillary Clinton went to Paris to be introduced to the Libyan rebels by French President Sarkozy, she met the US-educated Libyan opposition leader Mahmoud Jibril, already known to readers of Wikileaks document dumps as a favorite of the US.[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

While Jibril might be considered presentable in Paris, the real leaders of the Libyan insurrection would appear to be Jalil and Younis, both former ministers under Qaddafi. Jalil seems to be the primus inter pares, at least for the moment: “Mustafa Abdul Jalil or Abdul-Jalil (Arabic: مصطفى عبد الجليل, also transcribed Abdul-Jelil, Abd-al-Jalil, Abdel-Jalil or Abdeljalil; and frequently but erroneously as Abud Al Jeleil) (born 1952) is a Libyan politician. He was the Minister of Justice (unofficially, the Secretary of the General People’s Committee) under Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi…. Abdul Jalil has been identified as the Chairman of the National Transitional Council based in Benghazi… although this position is contested by others in the uprising due to his past connections to Gaddafi’s regime.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

As for Younis, he has been closely associated with Qaddafi since the 1968-9 seizure of power: “Abdul Fatah Younis (Arabic: عبد الفتاح يونس) is a senior military officer in Libya. He held the rank of General and the post of Minister of Interior, but resigned on 22 February 2011….”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

What should concern us most is that both Jalil and Younis come from the Haribi tribe, the dominant one in northeast Libya, and the one that overlaps with al Qaeda. According to Stratfor, the “…Harabi tribe is a historically powerful umbrella tribe in eastern Libya that saw their influence wane under Col. Gadhafi. The Libyan leader confiscated swaths of tribal members’ land and redistributed it to weaker and more loyal tribes…. Many of the leaders now emerging in eastern Libya hail from the Harabi tribe, including the head of the provisional government set up in Benghazi, Abdel Mustafa Jalil, and Abdel Fatah Younis, who assumed a key leadership role over the defected military ranks early in the uprising.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] This is like a presidential ticket where both candidates are from the same state, except that Libya’s ferocious tribal *****ries make the problem infinitely worse.


The Rebel Council: Half the Names Are Kept Secret; Why?

This picture of a narrow, sectarian tribal and regional base does not improve when we look at the rebel council as a whole. According to one recent version, the rebel council is “chaired by the well-spoken former justice minister for Libya, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, [and] consists of 31 members, ostensibly representatives from across Libya, of whom many cannot be named for “security reasons”…. “The key players on the council, at least those who we know about, all hail from the north-eastern Harabi confederation of tribes. These tribes have strong affiliations with Benghazi that date back to before the 1969 revolution which brought Gaddafi to power.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] Other accounts agree about the number of representatives: “The council has 31 members; the identities of several members has not been made public to protect their own safety.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] Given what we know about the extraordinary density of LIFG and all Qaeda fanatics in northeast Libya, we are authorized to wonder as to whether so many members of the council are being kept secret in order to protect them from Qaddafi, or whether the goal is to prevent them from being recognized in the west as al Qaeda terrorists or sympathizers. The latter seems to be a more accurate summary of the real state of affairs.

Names released so far include: Mustafa Abduljaleel; Ashour Hamed Bourashed of Darna city; Othman Suleiman El-Megyrahi of the Batnan area; Al Butnan of the Egypt border and Tobruk; Ahmed Abduraba Al-Abaar of Benghazi city; Fathi Mohamed Baja of Benghazi city; Abdelhafed Abdelkader Ghoga of Benghazi city; Mr. Omar El-Hariri for Military Affairs; and Dr. Mahmoud Jibril, Ibrahim El-Werfali and Dr. Ali Aziz Al-Eisawi for foreign affairs.[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

The State Department needs to interrogate these figures, starting perhaps with Ashour Hamed Bourashed, the delegate from the terrorist and suicide bomber stronghold of Darnah.

How Many al Qaeda Members, Veterans, or Sympathizers are on the Rebel Council?

Seeing as clearly as we can in the fog of war, it looks like slightly more than a dozen of the members of the rebel council have had their names officially published — in any case, not more than half of the reported 31 members. The US and European media have not taken the lead in identifying for us the names that are now known, and they above all have not called attention to the majority of the rebel council who are still lurking in the shadows of total secrecy. We must therefore demand to know how many LIFG and/or al Qaeda members, veterans, or sympathizers currently hold seats on the rebel council.

We are thus witnessing an attempt by the Harabi tribe to seize dominance over the 140 tribes of Libya. The Harabi are already practically hegemonic among the tribes of Cyrenaica. At the center of the Harabi Confederation is the Obeidat tribe, which is divided into 15 sub-tribes.[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] All of this might be of purely academic ethnographic interest, were it not for the fact of the striking overlap between the Harabi tribe and the LIFG and al Qaeda.


The Senussi Movement of Libya — Monarchist Democracy?

The political-religious tradition of northeast Libya makes this area such fertile ground for the more extreme Muslim sects and also predisposes it to monarchism rather than to the more modern forms of government favored by Qaddafi. The relevant regional tradition is that of the Senussi or Sanussi order, an anti-western Moslem sect. In Libya the Senussi order is closely associated with monarchism, since King Idris I, the ruler installed by the British in 1951 who was overthrown by Gaddafi in 1969, was also the leader of the Senussi order. The Senussi directed the rebellion against Italian colonialism in the person of Marshal Rodolfo Graziani and his army in the 1930s. Today, the rebels use the monarchist flag, and may advocate the return to the throne of one of the two pretenders to the Idris line. They are far closer to monarchism than to democracy

King Idris, Revered by the Libyan Rebels of Today

Here is the Stratfor view of King Idris and the Senussi: “King Idris came from a line of rulers of the Sanussi order, a Sufi religious order founded in 1842 in Al Bayda, that practices a conservative and austere form of Islam. The Sanussiyah represented a political force in Cyrenaica that preceded the creation of the modern state of Libya, and whose reverberations continue to be felt to this day. It is no coincidence that this region is the home of Libyan jihadism, with groups like the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG). The Gadhafi family has thus been calling the current uprising an elaborate Islamist plot….”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] Under the monarchy, Libya was by some estimates absolutely the poorest country in the world. Today, Libya ranks 53 on the UN Human Development Index and qualifies as the most developed country in Africa, ahead of Russia, Brazil, Ukraine, and Venezuela. Qaddafi’s stewardship has objective merits which cannot be seriously denied.

Glen Ford’s Black Agenda Report has correctly sought to show the racist and reactionary character of the Libyan insurrection. The tribes of southern Libya, known as the Fezzan, are dark skinned. The tribal underpinning of the Gaddafi regime has been an alliance of the tribes of the West, the center, and the southern Fezzan, against the Harabi and the Obeidat, who identify with the former monarchist ruling class. The Harabi and Obeidat are known to nurture a deep racist hatred against the Fezzan. This was expressed in frequent news reports from the pro-imperialist media at the beginning of the rebellion evidently inspired by Harabi accounts, according to which black people in Libya had to be treated as mercenaries working for Gaddafi — with the clear implication that they were to be exterminated. These racist inventions are still being repeated by quackademics like Dean Slaughter of the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton. And in fact, large numbers of black Africans from Chad and other countries working in Libyan have been systematically lynched and massacred by the anti-Gaddafi forces. The Obama White House, for all its empty talk of not wanting to repeat the massacre in Rwanda, has conveniently ignored this shocking story of real genocide at the hands of its new racist friends in Cyrenaica.


Against the obscurantism of the Senussi, Qaddafi has advanced the Moslem equivalent of the priesthood of all believers, arguing that no caliphate is necessary in order to discover the meaning of the Koran. He has supplemented this with a pan African perspective. Gerald A. Perreira of the Black Agenda Report writes the following about the theological division between Gaddafi and the neo-Senussi of northeast Libya, as well as other obscuranitsts: “Al Qaeda is in the Sahara on his borders and the International Union of Muslim Scholars is calling for [Qaddafi] to be tried in a court…. [Qaddafi] has questioned the Islam of the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda from a Quranic/theological perspective and is one of the few political leaders equipped to do so…. Benghazi has always been at the heart of counter-revolution in Libya, fostering reactionary Islamic movements such as the Wahhabis and Salafists. It is these people who founded the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group based in Benghazi which allies itself with Al Qaeda and who have, over the years, been responsible for the assassination of leading members of the Libyan revolutionary committees.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] And what would be for example the status of women under the neo-Senussi of the Benghazi rebel council?

 

[ax1]

Part III

Al Qaeda from Demon to US ally in Libya

For those who attempt to follow the ins and outs of the CIA’s management of its various patsy organizations inside the realm of presumed Islamic terrorism, it may be useful to trace the transformation of the LIFG-AQIM from deadly enemy to close ally. This phenomenon is closely linked to the general reversal of the ideological fronts of US imperialism that marks the divide between the Bush-Cheney-neocon administrations and the current Obama-Brzezinski-International Crisis Group regime. The Bush approach was to use the alleged presence of Al Qaeda as a reason for direct military attack. The Obama method is to use Al Qaeda to overthrow independent governments, and then either Balkanize and partition the countries in question, or else use them as kamikaze puppets against larger enemies like Russia, China, or Iran. This approach implies a more or less open fraternization with terrorist groups, which was signaled in a general way in Obamas famous Cairo speech of 2009. The links of the Obama campaign to the terrorist organizations deployed by the CIA against Russia were already a matter of public record three years ago.[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

But such a reversal of field cannot be improvised overnight; it took several years of preparation. On July 10, 2009, The London Daily Telegraph reported that the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group had split with Al Qaeda. This was when the United States had decided to de-emphasize the Iraq war, and also to prepare to use the Sunni Moslem Brotherhood and its Sunni Al Qaeda offshoot for the destabilization of the leading Arab states preparatory to turning them against Shiite Iran. Paul Cruikshank wrote at that time in the New York Daily News about one top LIFG honcho who wanted to dial back the relation to al Qaeda and the infamous Osama Bin Laden; this was “Noman Benotman, a former leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group. While mainstream Muslim leaders have long criticized Al Qaeda, these critics have the jihadist credentials to make their criticisms bite.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] But by this time some LIFG bosses had moved up into al Qaeda: the London Daily Telegraph reported that senior Al Qaeda members Abu Yahya al-Libi and Abu Laith al-Libi were LIFG members. Around this time, Qaddafi released some LIFG fighters in an ill-advsided humanitarian gesture.


Northeast Libyan Jihadis Killing US, NATO Forces in Afghanistan Right Now

One of the fatal contradictions in the current State Department and CIA policy is that it aims at a cordial alliance with Al Qaeda killers in northeast Libya, at the very moment when the United States and NATO are mercilessly bombing the civilian northwest Pakistan in the name of a total war against Al Qaeda, and US and NATO forces are being killed by Al Qaeda guerrillas in that same Afghanistan-Pakistan theater of war. The force of this glaring contradiction causes the entire edifice of US war propaganda to collapse. The US has long since lost any basis in morality for military force.

In fact, terrorist fighters from northeast Libya may be killing US and NATO troops in Afghanistan right now, even as the US and NATO protect their home base from the Qaddafi government. According to this account, a top Al Qaeda commander in northwest Pakistan was killed by US action as recently as October 2010: “A senior al Qaeda leader who serves as al Qaeda’s ambassador to Iran, and is wanted by the US, is reported to have been killed in a Predator air strike in Pakistan’s Taliban-controlled tribal agency of North Waziristan two days ago…. [This was] Atiyah Abd al Rahman, a Libyan national who has been based in Iran and served as Osama bin Laden’s ambassador to the mullahs. Unconfirmed press reports indicate that Rahman was killed in an airstrike….”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] The US State Department’s Rewards for Justice page for Atiyah Abd al Rahman notes that he was al Qaeda’s “emissary in Iran as appointed by Osama bin Ladin.” Atiyah “recruited and facilitated talks with other Islamic groups to operate under” al Qaeda and was “also a member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group and Ansar al Sunna.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] Rahman was ranked high enough in al Qaeda to be able to give orders to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the head of al Qeada in Iraq, in 2005.

Also killed in Pakistan was another apparent northeast Libyan going by the name of Khalid al Harabi, whose choice of a nom de guerre may well link him to the jihadi farm among the Harabi tribe in Cyrenaica. According to one account, “Khalid al Harabi is an alias for Khalid Habib, al Qaeda’s former military commander who was killed in a US Predator strike in October 2008.”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed

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The Scenario Uncovered by the 1995 Shayler Affair is Operative Today

In 1995, David Shayler, an official of the British counterintelligence organization MI-5, became aware that his counterpart at the British foreign espionage organization MI-6 had paid the sum of £100,000 to an Al Qaeda affiliate in exchange for the attempt to assassinate Qaddafi. The assassination attempt did occur, and killed several innocent bystanders, but failed to eliminate the Libyan ruler. As Shayler understood the MI-6 scenario, it included the liquidation of Gaddafi, followed by the descent of Libya into chaos and tribal warfare, with a possible option for a direct seizure of power by al Qaeda itself. This situation would then provide a pretext for Britain, probably but not necessarily acting together with the United States or other countries, to invade Libya and seize control of the oil fields, probably establishing a permanent protectorate over the oil regions, the pipelines, and the coast.[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] This remains the goal today.

Timed to coincide with the attempt to assassinate Qaddafi, MI-6 and other Western secret intelligence agencies fomented a considerable insurrection in northeast Libya, almost precisely in the same areas which are in rebellion today. Its insurrection was successfully crushed by Qaddafi’s forces by the end of 1996. The events of 2011 are simply a reprise of the imperialist attack on Libya 15 years ago, with the addition of outside intervention..

The War Against the Nation State

Today’s attack on Libya comes in the context of a broad attack on the institution of the sovereign nation state itself, as it has existed since the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648. The United States and the British are deeply concerned by the large number of nations which are seeking to escape from Anglo-American hegemony by actively pursuing large-scale cooperation with Russia on security, with China on economic questions, and with Iran for geopolitical considerations. The CIA/MI-6 response has been a wild orgy of destabilizations, people power coups, color revolutions, and palace putsches, signaled by the document dumps by the CIA limited hangout operation known as Wikileaks, which has targeted names of the CIA hit mist from Ben Ali to Qaddafi. The Obama strategy would have preferred an exclusive reliance and the illusion that the Arab Spring was really a matter of youthful visionary idealists gathering in the public square to praise democracy, the rule of law, and human rights. This was never the reality: the actual decisions were being made by brutal cliques of generals and top officials bribed or blackmailed by the CIA who were moving behind the scenes to oust such figures as Ben Ali or Mubarak. Whatever else Qaddafi has done, he has undoubtedly forced the CIA and NATO to drop the pleasant mask of youthful idealism and human rights, revealing a hideous visage of Predator drones, terror bombing, widespread slaughter, and colonialist arrogance underneath. Qaddafi has also ripped the mask of “Yes We Can” off Obama, revealing a cynical warmonger intent on the continuation of Bush’s infamous “Dead or Alive” and “Bring it on” policies, although by other means.


A Distant Mirror for Imperialists in Libya: Lucan’s Pharsalia

Modern imperialists eager to rush into Libya should ponder Lucan’s Pharsalia, which treats of warfare in the Libyan desert during the contest between Julius Caesar and Pompey the Great at the end of the Roman Republic. A critical passage in this Latin epic is the speech by Cato of Utica, a follower of Pompey, who urges his soldiers to undertake a suicide mission into Libya, saying: “Serpents, thirst, heat, and sand … Libya alone can present a multitude of woes that it would beseem men to fly from.” Cato goes forward, and finds “a little tomb to enclose [his] hallowed name, Libya secured the death of Cato….”[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP]

Let us not imitate this folly.

Investigative leads from the West Point Study: An Appeal to Scholars

The West Point study, as noted, was conducted on the basis of almost 700 Al Qaeda personnel files captured by coalition forces in Iraq.[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] The authors of the study have promised to keep available online the documentary basis of this investigation, both in the form of the raw Arabic language al Qaeda personnel files[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP], and also of the same file cards in English translation.[SUP]Invalid Link Removed[/SUP] Assuming that this material remains available, it might be possible for researchers and reporters, and especially those with capabilities in Arabic not possessed by the present writer, to investigate the Libyan fighters who went into Iraq with a view to determining whether any of them are family members, neighbors, or even political associates of the known members of the Benghazi rebel council or of other anti-Qaddafi forces. Such a procedure could contribute to allowing the European and American public as well as others around the world to better understand the nature of the military adventure currently unfolding in Libya by gaining a more specific knowledge of who the Libyan rebels actually are, as distinct from the hollow panegyrics purveyed by the controlled Western media.

 

[ax1]

. Not that you know what the MOS 18X is.

And yes I 100% know what that is. Good grief...Im not the uneducated "disgruntled civilian" your personal conditioned biased perceptions conclude I am.

Anyways, best of luck to you and stay safe.

 

[JayBeastly]

'On Record', show me the official records with signatures. And we do the same **** with substances overseas that we do here. Destroy it. Along with the IEDS, ammo dumps, ect. A good friend of mine was in Iraq six months prior to the invasion on an intel mission with a sciops unit teamed up with SF. He later went to Afghanistan where he helped destroy marijuana crops and ammo dumps. I know precisely where the drugs go. And yes, they did destroy coke overseas as well. You're just another conspiracy theorist off his meds, which I might add probably don't mix will with anything anabolic.

 

[JayBeastly]

Also there is no such field manual. I got a good laugh out of it though.

 

[JayBeastly]

Freerepublic.com? Lmfao..

 

[ax1]

Also there is no such field manual. I got a good laugh out of it though.

Freerepublic.com? Lmfao..

Oh boy, lol I like you

 

[ax1]

Also there is no such field manual. I got a good laugh out of it though.

Try better,

I remember a while back the leaked manual for the US domestic psych-ops re-education camps were going around back in 2010, and it became such hot fire that now the Army lists it on their website.

Here is the official US Army page to confirm the existence domestic psych-ops manual and the US re-education camps,
FM 3-39.40
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Im sure your aware of these covert ops manuals and I know your not allowed to speak of them which I respect you for following your job.

The re-education process is the responsibility of the “Psychological Operations Officer,” whose job it is to design “PSYOP products that are designed to pacify and acclimate detainees or DCs to accept U.S. I/R facility authority and regulations,” according to the document.

​

The manual lists the following roles that are designated to the “PSYOP team”.


​

- Identifies malcontents, trained agitators, and political leaders within the facility who may try to organize resistance or create disturbances.

​

- Develops and executes indoctrination programs to reduce or remove antagonistic attitudes.

​

- Identifies political activists.

​

- Provides loudspeaker support (such as administrative announcements and facility instructions when necessary).

​

- Helps the military police commander control detainee and DC populations during emergencies.

​

- Plans and executes a PSYOP program that produces an understanding and appreciation of U.S. policies and actions.

​

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​

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​

The following portions of the document make it clear that the policies apply “within U.S. territory” (as well as abroad in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan) and that domestic federal agencies are involved.

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[JayBeastly]

Partially correct. We don't conduct operations on our soil. Psyops battalions are often deployed with SF to collect information and rebuild the structures of communities. Some times psyops officers and enlisted drop warnings or hand out food and supplies as a part of 'Winning hearts and minds'. All the aggressive **** is left to the CIA, and Special Forces. But, like I said. Psyops is mainly fact find and restructuring. I have a friend that's an NCO and works in DC as well for Homeland Security. Intelligent guy, a reservist.

 

[JayBeastly]

Also these threads are fun and I enjoy talking to you about this! My information is from late 2010. There've been some changes though in the Army so idk about PSYOPS. Mostly little things like renaming MOUT and other basic acronyms.

 

[AE14]

With all the Alex jones love from Ax I thought this would be funny. Check YouTube for the 42 failed Alex Jones predictions. Absolutely awesome.

 

[ax1]

Partially correct. We don't conduct operations on our soil. Psyops battalions are often deployed with SF to collect information and rebuild the structures of communities. Some times psyops officers and enlisted drop warnings or hand out food and supplies as a part of 'Winning hearts and minds'. All the aggressive **** is left to the CIA, and Special Forces. But, like I said. Psyops is mainly fact find and restructuring. I have a friend that's an NCO and works in DC as well for Homeland Security. Intelligent guy, a reservist.

How do you feel about the Fusion centers and domestic re-education camps? If HR 645 is really designed to be a place for people to go to for help, why would they have to be enclosed in all those barb wired fences? Do you think we need hundreds of thousands of custom flat topped "over-sized" vaults on the properties as well?
(This is who makes them) Invalid Link Removed

If you read the psych-ops manual its clearly to let the military not the CIA run re-education and resettlement camps.

Here is another direct manual from the Army website Civilian Inmate Labor Program Army Regulation 210–35 and their "rehabilitative programs." You see there is so much more than what Im posting, and this is from 2005.
Invalid Link Removed

AR 210–35

Civilian Inmate Labor Program

This rapid action revision dated 14 January 2005--

o Assigns responsibilities to Headquarters, Installation Management Agency
(para 1-4j).

o Makes administrative and editorial changes (throughout).
This new regulation dated 9 December 1997

o Provides Army policy and guidance for establishing civilian inmate labor
programs and civilian prison camps on Army installations.

o Discusses sources of Federal and State civilian inmate labor.

Here on the official Army website there is an official career page to hire new military personal to run these domestic concentration camps.
Invalid Link Removed

Whats your feelings on the recent NDAA act and the National Defense Resources Preparedness executive orders that Obama signs officially declaring the homeland the battlefield? Allowing the military to take domestic property from the people and control individual natural resources as well as forcing American's to forced labor (basically the draft is back.)
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Im not posting this to get personal by the way, I just like getting your opinion even if I disagree with you. Based on direct sources, internal manuals, bills and executive orders that have passed this seems to be far, far more than just handing out food to win hearts and minds if you know what I mean and simple fact finding.

 

[ax1]

New Domestic Military Police State Document leaked today...this is what freedom is all about in this country.

"Warning shot will not be fired" by MPs trained in Martial Law in America: Military Police training: heavily patrolled domestic detention facilities, dissident/sniper warrantless searches - CONPLAN 3502 Civil Disturbance Operations training @ Ft McClellan

Army Manual Outlines Plan To Kill Rioters, Demonstrators In America

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July 6, 2012 in Invalid Link Removed

The following self-learning course from the U.S. Army Military Police School at Fort McClellan describes procedures for military police involvement in civil disturbance operations. The course makes it clear that temporary detention facilities in the event of a civil disturbance overloading local resources would be operated under existing military doctrine for internment facilities. The course cites Invalid Link Removed, which is now numbered Invalid Link Removed, as the primary reference for the operation of these facilities.​

Invalid Link Removed
United States Army Military Police School Subcourse Number MP 1005

• 115 pages
• April 2006

Invalid Link Removed

This lesson is designed to describe the nature and causes of disaffection and social unrest; define the potential for social unrest in the United States; identify the types of confrontations; define crowd behavioral and psychological influences; identify patterns of disorder.

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…
2. Application of Force.

a. General.

(1) Civil disturbance operations by federal forces will not be authorized until the President is advised by the highest officials of the state that the situation cannot be controlled with nonfederal resources available. The mission of the control force is to help restore law and order and to help maintain it until such time as state and local forces can control the situation without federal help. In performing this mission, the control force may have to actively participate, not only in subduing the disturbance, but also in helping to detain those responsible for it. Control force commanders are authorized and directed to provide such active participation, subject to restraints on the use of force.

(2) Prior to committing any federal forces in the quailing of civil disturbance whether in CONUS or OCONUS commanders should train and continually brief the control force on the rule of engagement (ROE). The commander is responsible for drafting, interpreting, disseminating, and training the control force on the ROE. The staff Judge Advocate (SJA) should be included in the ROE development to ensure that it will not improperly constrain actions, but still will remain consistent with domestic and international laws, polices, and orders of the chain of command.

(3) If non lethal weapon and munitions are to be utilized, they should be addressed within the ROE and disseminated to the lowest level, preferable to platoon and squad levels. This requires that all personnel have a clear understanding of the ROE and the commander’s intent.

(4) While serving with a multinational operation under the preview of the United Nations (UN) charter or customary international law the UN will may mandate certain restrictions on the use of force. By the use of overwhelming force during a civil disturbance under the UN may compromise diplomatic efforts to reach a peaceful solution. Commanders must beware that any confrontation of the ROE made by soldiers can have strategic political implications on current and future operations.

(5) The primary rule which governs the actions of federal forces in helping state and local authorities to restore law and order is that the control force use only the minimum force required fulfilling the mission. This chief principle should control both the selection of appropriate operational techniques and the choice of options for arming the control force. In carrying out this principle, the use of deadly force is authorized only under extreme circumstances where certain specific standards are met. To emphasize limitations on use of firepower and to restrict automatic fire, rifles with only a safe or semiautomatic selection capability or modified to such a capability will be used as a basic weapon for Soldiers in a civil disturbance area.
…
b. Use of Deadly and Non-deadly Force.

(1) Commanders are authorized to use non-deadly force to control the disturbance, to prevent crimes, and to detain persons who have committed crimes; but the degree of force used must be not greater than that reasonably necessary under the circumstances. The use of deadly force, in effect, invokes the power of summary execution and can, therefore, be justified only by extreme circumstances. Accordingly, its use is not authorized for the purpose of preventing activities which do not pose a significant risk of death or serious bodily harm. If a mission cannot be accomplished without the use of deadly force, but deadly force is not permitted under the guidelines authorizing its use, accomplishment of the mission must be delayed until sufficient non-deadly force can be brought to bear. All the requirements of paragraph (b), below, must be met in every case in which deadly force is employed.

(2) The use of deadly force is authorized only under conditions of extreme necessity and as a last resort when all lesser means have failed or cannot be reasonably be employed. Deadly force is justified under one or more of the following circumstances:

(a) Self- defense and defense of others. When deadly force reasonably appears to be necessary to protect law enforcement or security personnel who reasonably believe themselves or others to be in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.

(b) Assets involving national security. When deadly force reasonably appears necessary to prevent the actual theft or sabotage of assets vital to national security. DoD assets shall be specifically designated as “vital to national security” only when their loss, damage, or compromise would seriously jeopardize the fulfillment of a national defense mission. Examples include nuclear weapons; nuclear command, control, and communications facilities; and designated restricted area as containing strategic operational assets, sensitive codes, or special access programs.

(c) Assets no involving national security but inherently dangerous to others. When deadly force reasonably appears to be necessary to prevent the actual theft or sabotage of resources, such as operable weapons or ammunition, that are inherently dangerous to others; i.e., assets that, in the hands of an unauthorized individual, present a substantial potential danger of death or serious bodily harm to others. Examples include high risk portable and lethal missiles, rockets, arms, ammunition, explosives, chemical agents, and special nuclear material.

(d) Serious offenses against persons. When deadly force reasonably appears necessary to prevent the commission of a serious offense involving violence and threatening death or serious bodily harm. Examples include murder, armed robbery, and aggravated assault.

(e) Arrest or apprehension. When deadly force reasonably appears to be necessary to arrest, apprehend, or prevent the escape of a person who, there is probably cause to believe, has committed an offense of the nature in (2) through (4) above.

(f) Escapes. When deadly force has been specifically authorized by the Heads of the DoD Components and reasonable appears to be necessary to prevent the escape of a prisoner, provided law enforcement or security personnel have probable cause to believe that the escaping prisoner poses a threat of serious bodily harm either to security personnel or others.

(3) Every Soldier has the right under the law to use reasonably necessary force to defend himself against violent and dangerous personal attack. The limitations of this paragraph are not intended to infringe on this right, but to prevent the unauthorized or random use of other types of deadly force.

(4) In addition, the following policies regarding the use of deadly force will be observed:

(a) Give an order to halt.

(b) Warning shot will not be fired.

(c) When a firearm is discharged it will be fired with the intent of rendering the person(s) at whom it is discharged incapable of
continuing that activity or course of behavior prompting the individual to shoot.

(d) Shot will be fired only with due regard for the safety of innocent bystanders.

(e) In the case of holstered weapons, a weapon should not be removed from the holster unless there is reasonable expectation that use of the weapon may be necessary.

(5) Even when its use is authorized, deadly force must be used only with great selectivity and precision against the particular threat which justifies its use. For example, the receipt of sniper fire, however deadly, from an unknown location can never justify “returning the fire” against any or all persons who may be visible on the street or in nearby buildings. Such random response is far too likely to result in accidents among innocent bystanders or fellow law enforcement personnel; the appropriate response is to take cover and try to locate the source of the fire so that the threat can be neutralized.
…

f. Army Detention Facilities.

(1) The Army will not operate facilities for confinement, custody, or detention of civilian personnel apprehended for violation of local or state laws as long as civil confinement facilities, operated by the Department of Justice, state, or local agencies are sufficient to accommodate the number of persons apprehended.

(2) When it appears that available local facilities are insufficient, due to the large number of persons apprehended or detained, and this fact can be verified by the person or agency responsible for the facilities, temporary confinement/detention facilities may be operated with prior approval from DA, specifically, the Chief of Staff, U.S. Army. These facilities will be operated only until custody of the persons detained can be transferred to and assumed by civil authorities. They will not be used for the confinement of persons charged or convicted under civil jurisdiction.

(3) Temporary confinement/detention facilities can be developed from local federal facilities provided they are adaptable to the requirements of custody and control. Such facilities should be established, if possible, within the affected area; this will conserve time, transportation, and escort personnel. However, if no suitable federal property is available within the affected area, they can be located elsewhere on any property under federal control as long as the persons to be detained are apprehended in the affected area. Whenever such temporary facilities are established during civil disturbance control operations, the Army is responsible for providing those personnel, facilities, and supplies necessary for the custody, control, health, comfort, and sustenance of persons detained.

(4) Officers and key NCOs specifically trained and experienced in confinement operations are required to operate such facilities. Guards and support function personnel operating under the direct control of such officers and NCOs need not be specifically trained or experienced in confinement operations as long as they are under close and continuing supervision of trained responsible personnel. Whenever females are detained, they must be held in physically separate detention facilities and under the control of selected female guards operating under the supervision of trained and experienced confinement personnel.
(5) Temporary detention facilities should be constructed and arranged to provide for adequate custody, control, and safety of detainees. It is advisable to use existing permanent-type buildings. Where sufficient permanent structures are not available, only that amount of new construction required for temporary custody, control, and administration of prisoners should be accomplished. Temporary fieldtype facilities provide compartments to assure effective control.


(6) The same operational procedures that apply to the operation of installation confinement facilities and treatment of detainees apply to these temporary facilities except that those policies and procedures establishing training, employment, mail and correspondence, and administrative discipline requirements will not apply. Detailed guidance in procedures for confinement of detainees is contained in EPW Operations, FM 3-19.40.

Plus this one has quizzes!!

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​

There is a lot of stuff about formations -

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​

Related material:

1. Invalid Link Removed
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8. Invalid Link Removed

 

[Clemenza]

ax, I notice you post a lot of links from infowars and some Alex Jones stuff. How do you feel about Jones and his credibility as a journalist?

I know he has a hardcore following, but to be honest I always found him a little cooky and ungenuine. I could be wrong. But I see a guy like him in it more for the money and nototiety and not so much the passion. He seems more like a "shock-jock" type, with the "THE WORLDS GOING TO END TOMORROW" type headlines. Unlike guys like Joseph Fara and Breitbart. IMO.

I'm not the conspiracy theory type, but I do know there are many nefarious and sundry actions taking place behind closed doors. Just not sure what's legit, and what's overblown when it comes to Jones.

 

[AE14]

ax, I notice you post a lot of links from infowars and some Alex Jones stuff. How do you feel about Jones and his credibility as a journalist?

I know he has a hardcore following, but to be honest I always found him a little cooky and ungenuine. I could be wrong. But I see a guy like him in it more for the money and nototiety and not so much the passion. He seems more like a "shock-jock" type, with the "THE WORLDS GOING TO END TOMORROW" type headlines. Unlike guys like Joseph Fara and Breitbart. IMO.

I'm not the conspiracy theory type, but I do know there are many nefarious and sundry actions taking place behind closed doors. Just not sure what's legit, and what's overblown when it comes to Jones.

There is a great video on you tube about the 40+ predictions of jones that did not come to fruition. Gotta love a fearmonger.

 

[ax1]

ax, I notice you post a lot of links from infowars and some Alex Jones stuff. How do you feel about Jones and his credibility as a journalist?

I know he has a hardcore following, but to be honest I always found him a little cooky and ungenuine. I could be wrong. But I see a guy like him in it more for the money and nototiety and not so much the passion. He seems more like a "shock-jock" type, with the "THE WORLDS GOING TO END TOMORROW" type headlines. Unlike guys like Joseph Fara and Breitbart. IMO.

I'm not the conspiracy theory type, but I do know there are many nefarious and sundry actions taking place behind closed doors. Just not sure what's legit, and what's overblown when it comes to Jones.

I post some some stuff from Alex Jones and yes I do frequent him. Ive been listening for more than a several of years now and Ive been nothing but impressed with his accuracy of even documentaries he has done over a decade ago. You can watch the Obama Deception as a fine example which was made after Obama won the election.

Whats more particularly important is that he gets many interviews from military, police, whistle blowers, former government agents witnesses from 9/11, Oklahoma City Bombing (including police and Jury) that otherwise dont have a platform on mainstream television.

He does have his own personality, after all, he is a radio guy and needs to make the show interesting....but his consistency with dealing with real issues, always citing direct sources and having an open platform for interviews makes him an important contributor.

Im not a conspiracy theory type either, I hate conspiracy theories.

I really like alot of independent journalism especially from globalresearch.ca, Webster Tarpley, Gereld Celente, and many others Alex Jones is really a tiny contributor as a whole. Nothing should ever be concluded on, thats how I live life so just because I do reference them doesnt necessarily mean I view it as definitive piece of info.

There is a great video on you tube about the 40+ predictions of jones that did not come to fruition. Gotta love a fearmonger.

Whats funny is I just listened to that video and many of those "failed predictions" that were posted did come true. Some of the stuff from that video are bits of pieces of either speculation or ranting. Some are just things that people think will happen overnight when things are done incrementally. Some of the speculations and predictions posted in that video are from people he interviewed. Ive listened to perhaps 1,000+ hours of his radio show and to invalidate him with that video is very silly.

There is no fear mongering that I noticed. Maybe you just react differently than I do?

 

[AE14]

Whats funny is I just listened to that video and many of those "failed predictions" that were posted did come true. Some of the stuff from that video are bits of pieces of either speculation or ranting. Some are just things that people think will happen overnight when things are done incrementally. Some of the speculations and predictions posted in that video are from people he interviewed. Ive listened to perhaps 1,000+ hours of his radio show and to invalidate him with that video is very silly.

There is no fear mongering that I noticed. Maybe you just react differently than I do?

I see him as nothing more than a fear monger.

In terms of accuracy, the more crape spews he is eventually going to get things right. Just typical law of averages.

There are many videos out there about him being a fraud, I would suggest to look at more of them. I would also suggest taking him with as much a grain of salt as major news organizations. He also has his own agenda.

 

[ax1]

I see him as nothing more than a fear monger.

In terms of accuracy, the more crape spews he is eventually going to get things right. Just typical law of averages.

There are many videos out there about him being a fraud, I would suggest to look at more of them. I would also suggest taking him with as much a grain of salt as major news organizations. He also has his own agenda.

Ive probably seen more of them than you have, lol

Correct me if Im wrong, your acting like Im a Christian and I view him as Jesus, lol and not everything I post is from infowars.

I really dont care who is telling the news, I post stuff from Geraldo Rivera and I hate him. I look for content not discrediting information by character slander.

 

[ax1]

Now, if you go to his Website one of his latest headlines is,

"Invalid Link Removed

Executive Order — Assignment of National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions
EXECUTIVE ORDER
- – - – - – -
ASSIGNMENT OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND
EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS COMMUNICATIONS FUNCTIONS


The source is "Whitehouse.gov"

Now if I post this and market it as a headline from Alex Jones Infowars website, its just "fear-mongering, there is a hidden agenda and a conspiracy theory".... but this is coming directly from the White House and the Obama administration.

Its so silly to discredit information as a whole based on biased character slander.

 

[murk01]

Dude alex has been in it for a long time. Way before it was cool. Now. In large part to him, a few other and the obvious corruption, a lot of people realize what's really going on. So of. Of curse they attack him. He has the largest following in the US.
And still not enought see the truth. Ppl still think a bunch of dirt poor Arab farmer want them dead and are behind our economic collapse.

 

[AE14]

Ive probably seen more of them than you have, lol

Correct me if Im wrong, your acting like Im a Christian and I view him as Jesus, lol and not everything I post is from infowars.

I really dont care who is telling the news, I post stuff from Geraldo Rivera and I hate him. I look for content not discrediting information by character slander.

Wait Alex isn't Jesus?

You do have a disproportionate propensity for infowars. Just saying.

 

[AE14]

Dude alex has been in it for a long time. Way before it was cool. Now. In large part to him, a few other and the obvious corruption, a lot of people realize what's really going on. So of. Of curse they attack him. He has the largest following in the US.
And still not enought see the truth. Ppl still think a bunch of dirt poor Arab farmer want them dead and are behind our economic collapse.

If this is directed at me I will tell you that I don't think you have read anythings posted here. Calling al queda poor dirt farmers is silly and I think you know it, however, anyone that believes our collapse was because of Arab nations solely is also fooling themselves. They are part of the problem, but not it's entirety. We went far too long in this country with eerily leadership and powers in place that refuse to see the big economic picture since it benefited them. Btw it is not a republican or democrat issue and anyone who staunchly supports either side is a major component of the problem.

 

[ax1]

Wait Alex isn't Jesus?

You do have a disproportionate propensity for infowars. Just saying.

How about getting into the specific content I post and not where its coming from?

I dont want to force anybody to believe everything I post, the goal here for me is to have people have an open mind, keep skepticism and critical thinking but a statement such as "disproportionate propensity for infowars," what does that really conclude on other than you personally discredit infowars?

 

[AE14]

How about getting into the specific content I post and not where its coming from?

I dont want to force anybody to believe everything I post, the goal here for me is to have people have an open mind, keep skepticism and critical thinking but a statement such as "disproportionate propensity for infowars," what does that really conclude on other than you personally discredit infowars?

It concludes that imo inforwars is not a reliable source. I really dont want to get into the source argument from a few weeks ago, but Alex Jones and infowars discredit you. My 2 cents

 

[ax1]

It concludes that imo inforwars is not a reliable source. I really dont want to get into the source argument from a few weeks ago, but Alex Jones and infowars discredit you. My 2 cents

Ok...by why are you so cheap, what the hell can I buy with 2 cents? Cant I get a quarter?

 

[AE14]

Ok...by why are you so cheap, what the hell can I buy with 2 cents? Cant I get a quarter?

thats fair...just my $1

 

[EasyEJL]

It concludes that imo inforwars is not a reliable source. I really dont want to get into the source argument from a few weeks ago, but Alex Jones and infowars discredit you. My 2 cents

I've found that to typically be a liberal argument. Not specifically that site, but in general discrediting information on source, not content. 2+2=4, no matter who says it, and whether or not yesterday they said 2+3=4

 

[Clemenza]

If this is directed at me I will tell you that I don't think you have read anythings posted here. Calling al queda poor dirt farmers is silly and I think you know it, however, anyone that believes our collapse was because of Arab nations solely is also fooling themselves. They are part of the problem, but not it's entirety. We went far too long in this country with eerily leadership and powers in place that refuse to see the big economic picture since it benefited them. Btw it is not a republican or democrat issue and anyone who staunchly supports either side is a major component of the problem.

This

 

[EasyEJL]

If this is directed at me I will tell you that I don't think you have read anythings posted here. Calling al queda poor dirt farmers is silly and I think you know it, however, anyone that believes our collapse was because of Arab nations solely is also fooling themselves. They are part of the problem, but not it's entirety. We went far too long in this country with eerily leadership and powers in place that refuse to see the big economic picture since it benefited them. Btw it is not a republican or democrat issue and anyone who staunchly supports either side is a major component of the problem.

The inherent issue is seeing politicians as someone who can help a situation. Even a well intentioned politician (ha!) would believe that the more power he has, the more budget he has control over, the more people he can help. So even if helping is a goal, him accumulating more power still overall is more important than helping people.

government should not, and constitutionally is not there to help. They are there to provide a limited set of services that only work if done collectively. Most other services are very easily (and were prior to government taking them over) handled without government intervention.

 

[ax1]

US may put Assange to death if it gets him – former senior NSA official

Published: 09 July, 2012, 18:36
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The power elites don’t like dirty linen being aired, warns Thomas Andrews Drake

If America gets its hands on the WikiLeaks founder, they may go as far as execute him, a known National Security Agency whistleblower Thomas Andrews Drake told RT, adding that in the US, security has become a state religion.

*An expert on electronic eavesdropping, Drake sacrificed his career to blow the whistle on perceived wrongdoings within the NSA. He was charged under the Espionage Act, though the charges were dropped only last year.

He told RT that in America’s ‘soft tyranny’, everyone is subject or suspect in terms of surveillance.

Full video of below transcript of interview with Thomas Drake available here ----> Invalid Link Removed

*RT: What was the potential harm of the program that you challenged while working with the NSA?

Thomas Drake: There was a very large flagship program called Trailblazer that was designed to catapult the NSA into the twenty first century to deal with the vast amounts of data generated by the digital age. Given the massive fraud and abuse that the NSA had created with the Trailblazer program, as well as the super secret surveillance program, the NSA completely violated the Constitution and the Fourth Amendment. In particular, the stature called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which was the first commandment at the NSA: you did violate Americans’ privacy without a warning, and if you did – there is a criminal penalty for doing so. And I found this out to my horror and shock, that shortly after 9/11, the NSA entered a secret agreement with the White House in which the NSA would become the executive agent for this secret surveillance program.

On the front end, it was designed to deal with a terrorist threat – and that was quite understandable. But what it did – it actually turned the US into a collection platform.Vast rims of data were increasingly being collected through other entities and saved for analysis.

RT: There is a lot of debate about the proposed legislation CISPA enabling providers (Google, Facebook etc.) to share users’ personal data with the government. Are they already doing that? Do they need this legislation to protect themselves from being liable for what they are already doing?

TD: I believe that is a part of it. The other part is the government just wants even more access to even more data. Under the Patriot Act there is a secret executive interpretation which essentially grants the government pretty much unfettered access to subscriber information held by those companies. CISPA would take that to a next level. Under the label or the rubric of cyber threats, and to provide cyber security, the government wants even more invasive access to networks not normally available to that public.

RT: So what is the goal; is it total surveillance?

TD: If you take what has been happening in the post-9/11 security world, what you’re see is the establishment of a surveillance society – the establishment of a surveillance network. People don’t realize the extent to which we’re surveilled in many, many ways. The extent to which vast amounts of our transactional data in all forms – electronic forms, your emails, your tweets, bank records and everything else – are all subject or suspect in terms of surveillance. It raises the specter of the rise of so-called “soft tyranny.” It raises the specter of you being automatically suspicious until you prove that you’re not; the specter of a universal and persistent wiretap on every single person. If not – they can create one. Because what happens if they don’t like you? What if you speak ill will against the government? What if you say something they consider disloyal? That is not the country I took an oath to defend four times in my government career.

There is also a fear element. Fear in itself is control. What would people do when they are fearful is they would begin to censor themselves. It sends an extraordinary chilling message that if you speak out – they are going to hammer you hard. Our security has become our state religion, you don’t question it. And if you question it – your loyalty is questioned.

RT: A question about Wikileaks’ founder Julian Assange. How angry you think Washington is at Julian Assange?

TD: They are extremely angry. According to press reports, there has been a secret Grand Jury and maybe a secret indictment. They want to get him and put him away. There are those at high levels in this country – they have called for a death warrant.

Believe me, if the US get its hands on him – they’re going to do everything they can to put him away for as long as they can – or worse.
Speaking truth to power is very dangerous. The power elites, those in charge don’t like dirty linen being aired. They don’t like skeletons in the closet being seen. Not only do they object to it, they decide to turn it into criminal activity. Remember, my whistle blowing was criminalized by my own government.

RT: Journalists exposing civilian deaths in drone strikes are exposed as helping terrorist. The terrorist-helper label has become a convenient tool to brush off investigative journalism, hasn’t it?

TD: What it is, you go after the messenger to deal with the message… because addressing the message has become very uncomfortable.
If we start moving away from the law, which has already happened very significantly, and leave it to policy as a substitute – we’re going down a very slippery slope in the US.

RT: US officials condemn cyber attacks but it turns out the US government itself is involved in cyber attacks (like Stuxnet and Flame viruses). How do you see that?

TD: There are authorized leaks, which is an oxymoron coming from senior administration officials.

RT:They want people to know that?

TD: Right. I believe that is the case. They actually wanted people to know what the US is capable of doing. It is another form of warfare, it is a cyber weapon. But it is a Pandora’s box because we’re on uncharted territories of a virtual war.

The Pentagon itself has it on record that if a nation conducts actions against the US using things like Stuxnet – that’s an act of war. But we consider it (our actions) information or cyber operations. It goes under a whole host of different labels to make it something different from what it really is. So where are the lines drawn?

 

[AE14]

I've found that to typically be a liberal argument. Not specifically that site, but in general discrediting information on source, not content. 2+2=4, no matter who says it, and whether or not yesterday they said 2+3=4

I understand where you are coming from, but their 2+2 doesnt equal 4. They are wrong more than they are right.

 

[ax1]

I understand where you are coming from, but their 2+2 doesnt equal 4. They are wrong more than they are right.

How so? Have you frequented them over the years? Caught up with old vaulted material?

 

[AE14]

How so? Have you frequented them over the years? Caught up with old vaulted material?

Take a look at a basic search for infowars being incorrect. They are lucky if they are 30% accurate. Hell, I could be just as good. I cold say all kinds of ague sh!t and a few years from now....watch out. Lol

 

[ax1]

Take a look at a basic search for infowars being incorrect. They are lucky if they are 30% accurate. Hell, I could be just as good. I cold say all kinds of ague sh!t and a few years from now....watch out. Lol

Ive observed well over 1,000 hours of his material from 1998 to today (crunch in from 2008 and up.) I wanna say 2,000+ but I never kept track.

 

[ax1]

They are lucky if they are 30% accurate. Hell, I could be just as good. I cold say all kinds of ague sh!t and a few years from now....watch out. Lol

Here is a good example, this documentary on Obama has its production started right after Obama won the election up until a several months after he was president back 2008-2009. I first saw this after the release. Its pretty damn accurate and its not a bunch of psychic predictions. And if you pay attention to him, he doesnt run a show and make documentaries based on being psychic and making predictions. However just about everything he spoke of that Obama and his administration in 2008-2009 all have or are in the process to coming to fruition.

The Obama Deception HQ Full length version (2009)

 

[ax1]

The Trans Pacific Partnership – A Corporate Fascist Coup

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July 10, 2012

There is a bold global corporate takeover happening right before our eyes. The Trans Pacific Partnership has been discussed in secret for nearly 3 years and has been disguised as a trade deal when in reality it amounts to a fascist corporate coup where the megacorporations are gaining a tighter grip over individual governments all over the world.



Leaked TPP investment chapter:
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Sign the "stop the trap" petition:
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More info on the TPP:
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Watch "United We Fall"
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For more information visit:
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[superbeast668]

Anyone in the military here following along? Just wondering if you know anything about this below. Thanks.

Obama to Soldiers: Pay Up

Threatens to veto bill unless it hikes health care fees for service members


BY: Invalid Link Removed - June 29, 2012 10:22 am

The Obama administration on Friday threatened to veto a defense appropriations bill in part because it does not include higher health care fees for members of the military.

"The Administration is disappointed that the Congress did not incorporate the requested TRICARE fee initiatives into either the appropriation or authorization legislation," the White House wrote in an Invalid Link Removed expressing opposition to the bill, which Invalid Link Removed.

President Obama's most recent budget proposal includes Invalid Link Removed for members of TRICARE, the military health care system, and is part of the administration's plan to cut nearly $500 billion from the Pentagon's budget.

Invalid Link Removed the administration's proposal is an effort to increase enrollment in the state-run insurance exchanges mandated under the president's controversial health care law.

The administration urged the House to "reconsider" to fee increase, arguing they are "essential for DOD to successfully address rising personnel costs."

The House bill has significant bipartisan support, and easily passed by a margin of 299 to 120.

Invalid Link Removed

Military health care is piss poor as it is. If i was still in (honorably discharged when king obama took reign) id be up in arms over this. I hope everyone else is pissed about it too. I couldnt afford solo health care as a civilian at 30g a year, which is the average military pay. They cant afford an increase. They can't afford anything as it is.

 

[EasyEJL]

I understand where you are coming from, but their 2+2 doesnt equal 4. They are wrong more than they are right.

and that is ok that they are wrong more than right, but it doesn't mean by default something is false if it comes from them either.

 

[southpaw23]

Here is a good example, this documentary on Obama has its production started right after Obama won the election up until a several months after he was president back 2008-2009. I first saw this after the release. Its pretty damn accurate and its not a bunch of psychic predictions. And if you pay attention to him, he doesnt run a show and make documentaries based on being psychic and making predictions. However just about everything he spoke of that Obama and his administration in 2008-2009 all have or are in the process to coming to fruition.

The Obama Deception HQ Full length version (2009)

Lol :/

 

[southpaw23]

and that is ok that they are wrong more than right, but it doesn't mean by default something is false if it comes from them either.

It speaks to the credibility of said publication. But anyway enough has been said about so-called "sources."

 

[ax1]

and that is ok that they are wrong more than right, but it doesn't mean by default something is false if it comes from them either.

Its not always a matter of being right or wrong. Some people although confident in what they are reporting, consistently preach to people to go out on their own and independently dig deeper to the presented material.

Lol :/

And Im sure you watched it and took time to dig deeper into it.

 

[ax1]

Military health care is piss poor as it is. If i was still in (honorably discharged when king obama took reign) id be up in arms over this. I hope everyone else is pissed about it too. I couldnt afford solo health care as a civilian at 30g a year, which is the average military pay. They cant afford an increase. They can't afford anything as it is.

Our Military and troops not getting quality health care is the equivalent of living in a 3rd world country, it disgusting. Shame on corporate Washington.

They give Al-Queda at Gitmo far better quality health care than our troops.

 

[EasyEJL]

It speaks to the credibility of said publication. But anyway enough has been said about so-called "sources."

CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc have no credibility either though. They are not existing to deliver accurate information, they exist to generate revenue.

 

[AE14]

and that is ok that they are wrong more than right, but it doesn't mean by default something is false if it comes from them either.

true...but there is a greater likelihood. It just makes me take what they say with a grain of salt.

Jones is the biggest drawback to his "cause". He comes off as a fringe, tinfoil hat, loon. Most who have heard of him have a hard time taking him seriously

 

[AE14]

CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc have no credibility either though. They are not existing to deliver accurate information, they exist to generate revenue.

ahhhhhh the beauty of capitalism

 

[ax1]

true...but there is a greater likelihood. It just makes me take what they say with a grain of salt.

Jones is the biggest drawback to his "cause". He comes off as a fringe, tinfoil hat, loon. Most who have heard of him have a hard time taking him seriously

People who view Alex as a "fringe, tinfoil hat, loon" because they think he appears that way has nothing to do with the content presented. Its just stereotyping, slander and prejudice.

 

[southpaw23]

true...but there is a greater likelihood. It just makes me take what they say with a grain of salt.

Jones is the biggest drawback to his "cause". He comes off as a fringe, tinfoil hat, loon. Most who have heard of him have a hard time taking him seriously

Most of the sources presented here, if not all come off in a similar fashion. Take for example the centerpiece of the source used to create this exact thread.

In 1992, Pieczenik told Newsday that in his professional opinion, President Bush was "clinically depressed". As a result, he was brought up on an ethics charge before the American Psychiatric Association and reprimanded. He subsequently quit the APA.


He calls himself a "maverick troublemaker. You make your own rules. You pay the consequences."


On May 3, 2011, radio host Invalid Link Removed aired an interview in which Pieczenik claimed that Osama Bin Laden had died of Invalid Link Removed in 2001 shortly after the Invalid Link Removed, and that the attacks on the United States on 9/11 were part of a false flag operation by the American government. (Keep in mind he purports to have no direct evidence to support his contentions, which again probably doesn't matter in these forums for some people)


On October 20, 2011 in an interview with the Alex Jones, where Piecezenik claimed that Libyan leader Invalid Link Removed is alive and said "There’s no way they killed Muammar Gaddafi, that’s not our operating mode and I’ve been involved in 30 years with the takeouts and change the regimes." (Once again no direct evidence to support his contentions, but reference his own mantra above about being a troublemaker and stirring up crap when you can and judge accordingly)