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Tongkat Ali

brundel said:
We will be shipping to more distributors next week.
The price is actually low compared to other tongkat products that are - Real tongkat, properly extracted, work well.
Some are in the 90$ range for less tongkat than you get in ours.

You can find tongkat cheaper but likely its either not tongkat, or, its just raw tongkat material meaning no extract, or its improperly extracted.
I did my best to keep it inexpensive but...I figure people would rather have a good product than a cheap one.
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No disrespect intended either brother. Obviously just learning about this stuff so no real idea about the pricing. Nothing to really compare to.
 
I wasnt taking it that way at all and IM not trying to be harsh.
Just explaining.
My thought was its sort of expensive as well but when I compared pricing on other brands we were still relatively low.

Source naturals sells for 20-30$ approx. 81mg caps x 60
we have 60x 250mg plus boron citrate. for less than 40$
 
brundel have you already shipped viron to your uk distributor?looking every day at their homepage when it finally pops up in the new ar***** section
 
uubiduu said:
brundel have you already shipped viron to your uk distributor?looking every day at their homepage when it finally pops up in the new ar***** section
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Yes sir Viron shipped to the UK last week.

Its not going to the same place the Follidrone intro was at.
The second Retailer listed for the Uk.
 
brundel said:
Yes sir Viron shipped to the UK last week.

Its not going to the same place the Follidrone intro was at.
The second Retailer listed for the Uk.
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Brundel do you know if Tongkat Ali is available / allowed in Australia?

Sketch
 
Joshlm69 said:
I cant imagine an AI would be needed for Viron, they cancel one another out. I'm on the fence as to try 2 caps or stick with 1

What say you @Invalid Link Removed?
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I cannot comment on BLR products, but in terms of boron vs tongkat, the estrogen raising effect of boron is much more significant than the estrogen lowering effect of tongkat. A good dose of boron citrate is 200mg (yielding 10mg boron) and a good dose of tongkat is 200mg of LJ100
 
Yo Coop, can you post up where you get that? I've taken Boron for many years and never have had an increase in estrogen based on labs, which would match up with a more recent study Invalid Link Removed. I understand that previous studies done with lower amounts 2.5mg and 5mg saw an increase in estrogen and test, but that when higher amounts are administered, free test goes up significantly, estrogen lowers, and DHT goes up. Not saying that it could not raise estrogen in some, but want to keep an open mind about what is being said and what I personally have found.

I'd like to read up more if you have articles that say otherwise. Thanks!
 
Havent seen that Tongkat Ali reduces estrogen just that it boosts T and Boron can increase estrogen conversion. Seems like certain people have issues controlling estrogen, then an AI is necessary. I use progesterone cream just in case even though I have never had that problem. Of course I am on my very first exogenous T cycle, so what do I know?
 
Tongkat dramatically increased my free test from 19.4 to 27.3 (5-40 pg/mL scale) when I added it after my first year on TRT. Estrogen was relatively stable but still on the higher side at the time due to the process of dialing in my protocol.

I happen to be someone that sees a ton of benefit from boron and tongkat supplementation. I find it to be a remarkable combo.
 
souljah said:
Havent seen that Tongkat Ali reduces estrogen just that it boosts T and Boron can increase estrogen conversion. Seems like certain people have issues controlling estrogen, then an AI is necessary. I use progesterone cream just in case even though I have never had that problem. Of course I am on my very first exogenous T cycle, so what do I know?
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Why are you taking progesterone?
 
kisaj said:
Yo Coop, can you post up where you get that? I've taken Boron for many years and never have had an increase in estrogen based on labs, which would match up with a more recent study Invalid Link Removed. I understand that previous studies done with lower amounts 2.5mg and 5mg saw an increase in estrogen and test, but that when higher amounts are administered, free test goes up significantly, estrogen lowers, and DHT goes up. Not saying that it could not raise estrogen in some, but want to keep an open mind about what is being said and what I personally have found.

I'd like to read up more if you have articles that say otherwise. Thanks!
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I'll try to get to it when I'm home. I know E decreased in the most recent study, but I believe that was because it was only run for a week or so. The older studies saw an increase in estrogen, and this is totally normal and expected through lowering SHBG. So you'd want to check if the new study measured total plasma estradiol or free estradiol
 
souljah said:
As a natural non Rx AI.
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Progesterone is not an AI. It downregulates the estrogen receptor, but that effect is mild and it certainly makes very little sense to give yourself progesterone strictly for the purpose of lowering estrogen. Progesterone happens to be the strongest smooth muscle relaxant that the human body produces. As such, you should fully expect pretty signficant GI side effects, increased risk of cholecystitis, bloating and fluid retention, vascular side effects, increased temperature, and the list goes on..
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Progesterone is not an AI. It downregulates the estrogen receptor, but that effect is mild and it certainly makes very little sense to give yourself progesterone strictly for the purpose of lowering estrogen. Progesterone happens to be the strongest smooth muscle relaxant that the human body produces. As such, you should fully expect pretty signficant GI side effects, increased risk of cholecystitis, bloating and fluid retention, vascular side effects, increased temperature, and the list goes on..
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I use it along with my dhea but only sparingly and in small topical amounts. Definitely have no effects yet bad or good at this point.
 
I really think that you should not be using that along with DHEA if you are trying to address possible sides from the DHEA. I am only assuming that is why you are taking it.
 
Its possible estrogen can rise from Viron from an increase in testosterone and also from a reduction in SHBG.
Elevated estro can always be a potential issue when your increasing test levels so any viable test booster has this potential unless its an AI.

So, run Formeron with it if you are estro sensitive or just want to be safe. Either way combining the 2 is amazing anyways.
 
The only time I have had high estrogen problems was when I got injured and ended up on opiates for a few years, other than that my hormones have always been pretty balanced, Im just doing everything I can to not have to start TRT (age 44) because even though both my older brothers are on it my last test a couple years ago while still on opiates was 390 and that was in the afternoon. So that started me looking at estrogen conversion possibilities. I am totally clean now, no opiates, drugs, alcohol. I am expecting my HPTG axis to restart on its own after a couple years of inactivity and opiate use. I am open to any suggestions, as welll as you are all very knowledgeable and I wouldnt be here if this forum wasnt the sheet. Im waiting a few more months with me doing all the natural test boosters before i pay for my bloodwoork (self employed no insurance.)
 
Would it be better to just take a tongkat ali extract without the boron if that's the case? (To rule out any possible conversion to estrogen).
 
Sketch2000 said:
Would it be better to just take a tongkat ali extract without the boron if that's the case? (To rule out any possible conversion to estrogen).
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The benefits of the boron far outweigh the risk of a slight spike in estrogen.
Again anything that raises test levels will raise estrogen. Should we then not have high testosterone levels?
Instead of not taking any supplements that may elevate estrogen use something to moderate it instead.

Formeron will keep estrogen at bay
Raise test levels even further
Convert to hydroxytest
Added strength
anabolic potential
drying and hardening

all the good things about Formeron plus it manages your estrogen IF it happens to rise above normal levels.
 
This stack would be all time cut stack

Formeron
Viron
Follidrone
Incinderine

Here is a before and after of a friend who ran Incinderine and Formeron for his contest prep

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I think we should all be careful of fake or moonshine tongkat ali extracts. That somebody is promoting his own product as the best on a forum is just spam blabla. Look at the fundamentals: Is a product properly licensed? How long is the seller in business? Is there photographic proof of access to tongkat ali?
 
Earl17 said:
I think we should all be careful of fake or moonshine tongkat ali extracts. That somebody is promoting his own product as the best on a forum is just spam blabla. Look at the fundamentals: Is a product properly licensed? How long is the seller in business? Is there photographic proof of access to tongkat ali?
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Who are you?
 
kisaj said:
Someone getting ready to pitch his own product.
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Ding!
His only other post is promoting another tongkat product. HIGHLY transparent.
The good news is thousands of people have taken my tongkat with 100% positive reviews so.....Ill take that over BS all day long.
 
High grade tongkat coupled with boron citrate.
Priced low for the quality and dose. Has been used by thousands of people with no negative reports.

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GeorgeAleef said:
There is a list on ahelu.com, of all the genuine and fake tongkat ali.
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Many brands use fake Tongkat Ali.
Best one is 1:200 extract and it really works.

tongkat ali is one of the few testboosting ingredients which really works and have studies done on humans, but it will do nothing if you buy unquality ****
 
brundel said:
High grade tongkat coupled with boron citrate.
Priced low for the quality and dose. Has been used by thousands of people with no negative reports.

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I am curious what you mean with high grade tongkat ?
1:50, 1:100, 1:200 , ethanol extract or?
 
been reading into this herb/supplement quite a bit. seems very promising, whats the verdict on the best quality?
 
Ratios mean nothing other than a marketing ploy. I've had 1:100 that was better than 1:200 and with lower mg. It is all about sourcing like anything else.
 
kisaj said:
Ratios mean nothing other than a marketing ploy. I've had 1:100 that was better than 1:200 and with lower mg. It is all about sourcing like anything else.
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Believe me , there are sooo many brands claiming they have 1:50, 1:100 and 1: 200 but lab test showed nothing than garbage.

1:200 extract is not many who sell and if you find it, they will show a lab test gladly to prove their quality.

1:200 means u need 200kg to make 1kg of tongkat 1:200 extract
 
For the official LJ 100 by herbal power, Universal N 1T is really well price. and you know you get the real good stuff
 
kisaj said:
Ratios mean nothing other than a marketing ploy. I've had 1:100 that was better than 1:200 and with lower mg. It is all about sourcing like anything else.
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THis is the truth.
THere is no standard by which 200:1 is measured. Basically a company can just say it and there is no way to dis prove it aside from chemical testing.
Ill hold mine up to ANY tongkat on the market with regards to quality, strength and effect.
THe price is as good as it gets as well.
 
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how do u guys feel about this ? the ingredient label looks too nice

what confuses me is this '(Min. 10% Saponins)'


good or bad?
 
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