To Infinity.... and Beyond!

[gphagan1]

Man, this is some of the best discussion and feedback that I’ve seen on fasting. And you guys are hitting on all great points between the fat loss and the information on fasting being proven to be a lot more muscle sparing than us old timers used to think. Then there is a whole other benefit with fasting helping the body and organs heal. Good stuff up in here.

 

[SweetLou321]

This immediately made me think of the book "blink" again, where you know something to be true but don't always know why you know it.



although I might ask 2 questions here... first being what are the results you are looking for, and then second could be whether or not they are hit, right? (cutting, bulking, strength, etc since this game of iron tends to have many different end goals)



Kleen got me hooked on ADF a while back. I think it was May of 2023 or so. I enjoyed surplus eating on lifting days and then followed with a minimum of 1 day (30hr) if not 2 day (60hr) fasts. I dropped I think 10lbs that month but IIRC also set PR's on Deads and/or Bench. It's just my personal anecdotal information, but an interesting experience! I'm no pro, but I've been under the barbell in one way or another for 25 years so that progress was not on an untrained specimen per se.

I am a bit behind here but I will try to address the thoughts I initiated.

"although I might ask 2 questions here... first being what are the results you are looking for, and then second could be whether or not they are hit, right? (cutting, bulking, strength, etc since this game of iron tends to have many different end goals)"

My main point here is at some point, your may have to choose between what it takes to achieve an outcome and enjoyment of the process itself. The general goal is to find the best way to make the process as enjoyable as possible to achieve the desired outcome, but sometimes, that is not possible and there must be trade offs. In the game of lifting, the more advanced you become, the less these two vectors may overlap.

Some examples are:
A) The more muscle you have, the harder it becomes to build more muscle, so the wiggle room to do things less optimally to build muscle and progress becomes less.
B) The stronger you become, the harder it is to become stronger, so again the wiggle room to do things less optimally to get stronger and progress becomes less.

So its possible that in the past, you had enough room to make progress, that you could do things less optimally while providing enough of a stimulus to make progress. The less optimal things you were doing may make the overall process more enjoyable, so adherence and enjoyment were high. If enjoyment and adherence are top priorities while still trying to make some progress, then this is great. However, if the goal outcome of progress is the main priority, then we sometimes to recognize that some things are less optimal than others. Additionally, as your progress, you may have to do things do not particularly enjoy to make more progress. At this crossroad you then either have the option of accepting you are leaving gains on the table to keep adherence and enjoyment high, or you need to do the things you do not enjoy doing to make more progress.

"Kleen got me hooked on ADF a while back. I think it was May of 2023 or so. I enjoyed surplus eating on lifting days and then followed with a minimum of 1 day (30hr) if not 2 day (60hr) fasts. I dropped I think 10lbs that month but IIRC also set PR's on Deads and/or Bench. It's just my personal anecdotal information, but an interesting experience! I'm no pro, but I've been under the barbell in one way or another for 25 years so that progress was not on an untrained specimen per se."

Being under a barbell means little, I do not say this to discredit your lifting history or current status. I can tell based on your log and numbers that pure optimized strength training is not something you have years and years of experience with in the big 3. So to me, this means you still have quite a bit of progress you can make in this regard, this means you can do something less optimally, such as ADF, and still make great progress, which, if you like ADF, and you are not trying to maximize strength gains, this is a perfect scenario of appropriate trade offs.

I do want to put the IF review a shared into more context. If people with a lot less training experience, thus a lot more room to make progress while doing things less optimally had pretty subpar muscle building results with ADF in a controlled weight loss study then I would not expect better results for more trained people. So far, as far as IF variations that have been studies, the 16/8 seems to the most viable for more trained people without some serious structural and timing considerations.

 

[Hyde]

[QUOTE="SweetLou321, post: 6819567, member: 109628"
Additionally, as your progress, you may have to do things do not particularly enjoy to make more progress. At this crossroad you then either have the option of accepting you are leaving gains on the table to keep adherence and enjoyment high, or you need to do the things you do not enjoy doing to make more progress.
[/QUOTE]

Why you gotta remind me about single-leg work like this, Lou??

 

[SweetLou321]

[QUOTE="SweetLou321, post: 6819567, member: 109628"
Additionally, as your progress, you may have to do things do not particularly enjoy to make more progress. At this crossroad you then either have the option of accepting you are leaving gains on the table to keep adherence and enjoyment high, or you need to do the things you do not enjoy doing to make more progress.

Why you gotta remind me about single-leg work like this, Lou??
[/QUOTE]

LOL, single leg work is one reason I stopped powerlifting...only kinda joking

 

[SweetLou321]

Not to side track your log but I see the claim of "fasting being muscle sparing" being stated a lot. Does anyone have some studies to substantiate this claim? I would like to learn more about longer fasting periods.

The IF review I shared before showed that with resistance training, some models of IF that are not as extreme as prolonged 36+ hr fasts such as ADF and 4/20 still results in a loss of LBM over time.

Then I saw this study:

Invalid Link Removed

Results

The 10 day fast decreased BW by 7% (−5.9 ± 0.2 kg, P < 0.001) and BMR by 12% (P < 0.01). Fat mass and lean soft tissues (LST) accounted for about 40% and 60% of weight loss, respectively, −2.3 ± 0.18 kg and −3.53 ± 0.13 kg, P < 0.001. LST loss was explained by the reduction in extracellular water (44%), muscle and liver glycogen and associated water (14%), and metabolic active lean tissue (42%). Plasma 3‐methyl‐histidine increased until Day 5 of fasting and then decreased, suggesting that protein sparing might follow early proteolysis. Daily steps count increased by 60% (P < 0.001) during the fasting period. Strength was maintained in non‐weight‐bearing muscles and increased in weight‐bearing muscles (+33%, P < 0.001). Glycaemia, insulinemia, blood lipids, and blood pressure dropped during the fast (P < 0.05 for all), while non‐esterified fatty acids and urinary beta‐hydroxybutyrate increased (P < 0.01 for both). After a transient reduction, inflammatory cytokines returned to baseline at Day 10 of fasting, and LST were still lower than baseline values (−2.3% and −3.2%, respectively; P < 0.05 for both).

Conclusions

A 10 day fast appears safe in healthy humans. Protein loss occurs in early fast but decreases as ketogenesis increases. Fasting combined with physical activity does not negatively impact muscle function. Future studies will need to confirm these first findings.

I see that it can be muscle sparing based on this study in healthy men after around 5 days of fasting, but for the shorter fasts of say 1-2 days, they are indeed not muscle sparing. I think we could even expect this effect to be worse in someone with a lot of extra muscle since its metabolically inefficient for the body to have a lot of muscle and, generally, it does not want it around, which is why its a hard earned adaptation in the first place.

 

[Dustin07]

Man, this is some of the best discussion and feedback that I’ve seen on fasting. And you guys are hitting on all great points between the fat loss and the information on fasting being proven to be a lot more muscle sparing than us old timers used to think. Then there is a whole other benefit with fasting helping the body and organs heal. Good stuff up in here.

My main point here is at some point, your may have to choose between what it takes to achieve an outcome and enjoyment of the process itself. The general goal is to find the best way to make the process as enjoyable as possible to achieve the desired outcome, but sometimes, that is not possible and there must be trade offs. In the game of lifting, the more advanced you become, the less these two vectors may overlap.

Some examples are:
A) The more muscle you have, the harder it becomes to build more muscle, so the wiggle room to do things less optimally to build muscle and progress becomes less.
B) The stronger you become, the harder it is to become stronger, so again the wiggle room to do things less optimally to get stronger and progress becomes less.

Additionally, as your progress, you may have to do things do not particularly enjoy to make more progress.

Your notes here are awesome and remind me a lot of the things Layne was discussing in the Hubberman podcast. it was really interesting to see him speak quite kindly about those folks who may benefit from semaglutides, as little as like 2 x 25 minute per week training sessions, fasting, etc and how those folks are likely going to see some progress, possibly life changing progress, but then also come back to remind people that he isn't training for a total of 6.5hrs over 12 weeks, he's knocking out 6 hours of training in 2 days. Not as related but he talked about RIR, training to failure, hypertrophy etc and the relevant portion of that was like I believe you are alluding to, the further along you get the harder it is for smaller steps of progress.

such as ADF, and still make great progress, which, if you like ADF, and you are not trying to maximize strength gains, this is a perfect scenario of appropriate trade offs.

I can tell based on your log and numbers that pure optimized strength training is not something you have years and years of experience with in the big 3

zero doubt, I had a decade developing capacity and modalities rather than top end strength, so my progress most recently has been a blast on the strength side. My inclination was to remain on the lean and natty side whereas most recently I've fed for strength benefits and have truly enjoyed that progress.

Fast forward today to where my clothes fit better again, I'm lighter on my feet, sleeping better (mostly) and watching my lifting belt go back down a few holes and the cutting side has been a familiar but nice feeling again.

 

[Dustin07]

The IF review I shared before showed that with resistance training, some models of IF that are not as extreme as prolonged 36+ hr fasts such as ADF and 4/20 still results in a loss of LBM over time.

I noticed that as well, IIRC correctly exercise + fasting yielded slightly less LBM loss than fasting alone, but was still a higher loss percentage than a standard diet + exercise. Fat loss was double or more, but LBM loss was also double or more.

 

[Hyde]

Not to side track your log but I see the claim of "fasting being muscle sparing" being stated a lot. Does anyone have some studies to substantiate this claim? I would like to learn more about longer fasting periods.

The IF review I shared before showed that with resistance training, some models of IF that are not as extreme as prolonged 36+ hr fasts such as ADF and 4/20 still results in a loss of LBM over time.

Then I saw this study:

Invalid Link Removed

Results

The 10 day fast decreased BW by 7% (−5.9 ± 0.2 kg, P < 0.001) and BMR by 12% (P < 0.01). Fat mass and lean soft tissues (LST) accounted for about 40% and 60% of weight loss, respectively, −2.3 ± 0.18 kg and −3.53 ± 0.13 kg, P < 0.001. LST loss was explained by the reduction in extracellular water (44%), muscle and liver glycogen and associated water (14%), and metabolic active lean tissue (42%). Plasma 3‐methyl‐histidine increased until Day 5 of fasting and then decreased, suggesting that protein sparing might follow early proteolysis. Daily steps count increased by 60% (P < 0.001) during the fasting period. Strength was maintained in non‐weight‐bearing muscles and increased in weight‐bearing muscles (+33%, P < 0.001). Glycaemia, insulinemia, blood lipids, and blood pressure dropped during the fast (P < 0.05 for all), while non‐esterified fatty acids and urinary beta‐hydroxybutyrate increased (P < 0.01 for both). After a transient reduction, inflammatory cytokines returned to baseline at Day 10 of fasting, and LST were still lower than baseline values (−2.3% and −3.2%, respectively; P < 0.05 for both).

Conclusions

A 10 day fast appears safe in healthy humans. Protein loss occurs in early fast but decreases as ketogenesis increases. Fasting combined with physical activity does not negatively impact muscle function. Future studies will need to confirm these first findings.

I see that it can be muscle sparing based on this study in healthy men after around 5 days of fasting, but for the shorter fasts of say 1-2 days, they are indeed not muscle sparing. I think we could even expect this effect to be worse in someone with a lot of extra muscle since its metabolically inefficient for the body to have a lot of muscle and, generally, it does not want it around, which is why its a hard earned adaptation in the first place.

There was a study I read on growth hormone during fasting that showed GH levels continue to rise over the duration of extended fasts.

To your point, the first day for sure is not anything special; I want to say 60 hours+ is where levels start getting very significant.

For someone enhanced doing very extended fasts, using small amounts of Tren or sublingual Anavar for the glucocorticoid inhibition during the fasts is definitely muscle-sparing.

 

[Dustin07]

Deads
2 x 10 x 135
3 x 225
1 x 275, 325, 365, 405, 435
5 x 375
10 x 275

BB rows
3 x 10 x 135

Seated incline DB curls
7 sets

T bar rows
3 x 12+

Superset with ez bar curls
3 x 12+

Lat pull downs
5 x 12


Made some lemonade. Customer meeting lasted 8 hrs and included lunch at Mexican restaurant. Ordered chicken salad, no sour cream, water, and put the sodium to good use.

Applied Carnitine in the locker room again immediately preWO and definitely feel like that it has an instant positive effect. Awesome pump today.

 

[Segansational]

OK, now I'm getting excited about TD carnitine again...

But really can't stop thinking about your potato chip dream! the worst when you think it's going to be a good dream, only for the food to choke you in your sleep! Can't even enjoy the fake calories in peace. LOL

 

[SweetLou321]

I noticed that as well, IIRC correctly exercise + fasting yielded slightly less LBM loss than fasting alone, but was still a higher loss percentage than a standard diet + exercise. Fat loss was double or more, but LBM loss was also double or more.

Now I did not pull the full text of the ADF study until now, but the participants were only told to eat 400-500 cals on the fast days and ad libitum on the regular days, no structured protein intakes. So the big draw back is it is possible they were undereating protein overall. So that could explain some of the LBM loss. Invalid Link Removed

So I will reiterate that I doubt fasting is a huge issues unless at the upper limits of your potential for a particular goal as else being equal. Especially if you do it with some strategy in mind.

1) Giving the body 1-2 days post lifting with adequate cals and protein to ensure adaptations can take place, allowing for enough time to refuel for performance on the next session. Hyde does this well IMO.

2) If you want to fast more often, then I would start thinking of total weekly protein needs instead of just 24 hours needs based on the data we currently have. Say you want to eat well on training days and fast on off days, due to your schedule and planned weight loss goals ect. Then I would consider doubling up on protein needs the day before each fast, esp post lifting, and even more so in the last meal before the fasting starts. So instead of just 1.6 g per kg bw the day before the fast, I would do around 3.2 g per kg bw and try to time more of the protein after lifting and maybe even say around 100 g in the last meal before the fasting starts. One of the previous studies I linked showed that eating 100 g of protein post lifting can effectively support muscle protein needs for at least 12 hours, so this can help overcome some shortcomings of fasting in the acute post lifting window.

Most of the TRF studies that showed the best body composition results, esp towards LBM, had an adequate amount of protein during the feeding window with protein pre and post lifting.

 

[MrKleen73]

There was a study I read on growth hormone during fasting that showed GH levels continue to rise over the duration of extended fasts.

To your point, the first day for sure is not anything special; I want to say 60 hours+ is where levels start getting very significant.

For someone enhanced doing very extended fasts, using small amounts of Tren or sublingual Anavar for the glucocorticoid inhibition during the fasts is definitely muscle-sparing.

So if the issue is ketosis not having been achieved for a few days as SweetLou mentioned, then to make it less muscle wasting going keto before your fast would likely alleviate a lot of that. Also glad you brought up the glutocorticoid part since I mentioned you had done it.

Now I did not pull the full text of the ADF study until now, but the participants were only told to eat 400-500 cals on the fast days and ad libitum on the regular days, no structured protein intakes. So the big draw back is it is possible they were undereating protein overall. So that could explain some of the LBM loss. Invalid Link Removed

So I will reiterate that I doubt fasting is a huge issues unless at the upper limits of your potential for a particular goal as else being equal. Especially if you do it with some strategy in mind.

1) Giving the body 1-2 days post lifting with adequate cals and protein to ensure adaptations can take place, allowing for enough time to refuel for performance on the next session. Hyde does this well IMO.

2) If you want to fast more often, then I would start thinking of total weekly protein needs instead of just 24 hours needs based on the data we currently have. Say you want to eat well on training days and fast on off days, due to your schedule and planned weight loss goals ect. Then I would consider doubling up on protein needs the day before each fast, esp post lifting, and even more so in the last meal before the fasting starts. So instead of just 1.6 g per kg bw the day before the fast, I would do around 3.2 g per kg bw and try to time more of the protein after lifting and maybe even say around 100 g in the last meal before the fasting starts. One of the previous studies I linked showed that eating 100 g of protein post lifting can effectively support muscle protein needs for at least 12 hours, so this can help overcome some shortcomings of fasting in the acute post lifting window.

Most of the TRF studies that showed the best body composition results, esp towards LBM, had an adequate amount of protein during the feeding window with protein pre and post lifting.

Another possibility is that with the 400-500 calories they have actually broken the fast, and extended the time to get to ketosis, which could have created more muscle loss. Very interesting stuff isn't it?

 

[gphagan1]

Now I did not pull the full text of the ADF study until now, but the participants were only told to eat 400-500 cals on the fast days and ad libitum on the regular days, no structured protein intakes. So the big draw back is it is possible they were undereating protein overall. So that could explain some of the LBM loss. Invalid Link Removed

So I will reiterate that I doubt fasting is a huge issues unless at the upper limits of your potential for a particular goal as else being equal. Especially if you do it with some strategy in mind.

1) Giving the body 1-2 days post lifting with adequate cals and protein to ensure adaptations can take place, allowing for enough time to refuel for performance on the next session. Hyde does this well IMO.

2) If you want to fast more often, then I would start thinking of total weekly protein needs instead of just 24 hours needs based on the data we currently have. Say you want to eat well on training days and fast on off days, due to your schedule and planned weight loss goals ect. Then I would consider doubling up on protein needs the day before each fast, esp post lifting, and even more so in the last meal before the fasting starts. So instead of just 1.6 g per kg bw the day before the fast, I would do around 3.2 g per kg bw and try to time more of the protein after lifting and maybe even say around 100 g in the last meal before the fasting starts. One of the previous studies I linked showed that eating 100 g of protein post lifting can effectively support muscle protein needs for at least 12 hours, so this can help overcome some shortcomings of fasting in the acute post lifting window.

Most of the TRF studies that showed the best body composition results, esp towards LBM, had an adequate amount of protein during the feeding window with protein pre and post lifting.

Good stuff, and great advice. After following Hyde and Kleen’s logs, they are great examples of how to incorporate fasting properly as a tool to help reach goals. At 59 I had been kind of set in my ways of the old school bulk and cut thinking and really only incorporated short fasts periodically without truly seeing the full benefits. But since seeing how well guys like Dustin, Kleen, and Hyde have been able to use fasting , this old dog changed his thinking. And I have to say when you pass say that 48 to 60 hour window, there’s a mental clarity that takes place that really just makes you feel good. I love it that we are able to have open discussions on this forum to help each other, and a lot of good guys here that enjoy helping others. So yeah, old dogs can learn new tricks.

 

[Dustin07]

So I will reiterate that I doubt fasting is a huge issues unless at the upper limits of your potential for a particular goal as else being equal. Especially if you do it with some strategy in mind.

1) Giving the body 1-2 days post lifting with adequate cals and protein to ensure adaptations can take place, allowing for enough time to refuel for performance on the next session. Hyde does this well IMO.

2) If you want to fast more often, then I would start thinking of total weekly protein needs instead of just 24 hours needs based on the data we currently have. Say you want to eat well on training days and fast on off days, due to your schedule and planned weight loss goals ect. Then I would consider doubling up on protein needs the day before each fast, esp post lifting, and even more so in the last meal before the fasting starts. So instead of just 1.6 g per kg bw the day before the fast, I would do around 3.2 g per kg bw and try to time more of the protein after lifting and maybe even say around 100 g in the last meal before the fasting starts. One of the previous studies I linked showed that eating 100 g of protein post lifting can effectively support muscle protein needs for at least 12 hours, so this can help overcome some shortcomings of fasting in the acute post lifting window.

I love this summary. I feel like I remember Hyde talking about intentionally working towards ketosis prior to expected fasts before. Now, I thought a lot of this was to help alleviate hunger, I hadn't tied it in with the ideas you suggested above but this sounds like an excellent experiement. I may have to give this a go.

Another possibility is that with the 400-500 calories they have actually broken the fast, and extended the time to get to ketosis, which could have created more muscle loss. Very interesting stuff isn't it?

So I have seen mention of "low calorie" vs zero calories. I recall Hyde mentioning basically consuming nearly nothing but water, and maybe salt/lemon during a fast. After many podcasts, much reading and experimentation, I limit myself to much less than 100 calories on a legit 36+hr fast, and zero (to the best of my knowledge) aminos. I have often looked up different things to see what kind of response they create and if they would break a fast (such as monkeyfruit). My calories from zero-calorie fasts have been something like a small sugar free redbull (5 calories) or larger gatorade zero (also I believe 5 or 10 calories). But I'm talking about just one, not pounding them all day. I have gone as far as to take shots of pickle juice.

But since seeing how well guys like Dustin, Kleen, and Hyde have been able to use fasting , this old dog changed his thinking. And I have to say when you pass say that 48 to 60 hour window, there’s a mental clarity that takes place that really just makes you feel good. I love it that we are able to have open discussions on this forum to help each other, and a lot of good guys here that enjoy helping others. So yeah, old dogs can learn new tricks.

Cheers to all that! And I agree, day 2 is far easier. I would not want a 400 or 500 calorie fast day. Hunger pain is real, but it passes and if the mindset is already there to fast for "x" amount of time, I find it's just not that hard. My first time of course sleep suffered horribly which my understanding could be from entering ketosis at night.

Also when I first started fasting I found boredom was a major challenge. Again, I associate this with like a dopamine / endorphin response? I would have cravings and feel quite bored in the first 24-30hrs of a fast. those things have all gone away and I feel like those experiences have made me healthier, even if only mentally healthier.

 

[Dustin07]

When I was leaner on a regular basis there was a feeling of contentment with satiety. It was not that I was full, but it was not that I was hungry. it felt like a balance of basically being fed to support what I needed. When I focused on putting on some size for strength training I never really took eating to that level of a much stronger power lifter, but I did enjoy the feeling of being "full". Loved eating till I was full. Now that I am leaning back up, I am finding comfort in that "enough" zone again which is something I also enjoy. it's just a 180 degree mindset change for me. I do think I am one of those who can eat far beyond what is needed. There are no skinny people in my bloodlines

 

[Hyde]

I do think I am one of those who can eat far beyond what is needed. There are no skinny people in my bloodlines

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Dustin07]

Invalid Link Removed

funny thing is my brother is a soccer player and xfit competitor, my other brother is former iraq veteran farmer, and my dad runs 3 miles every morning in his home gym before a lifting circuit and coming to work but I'd shave 10-40lbs of each of them if I could still cause, well, they all still eat like they are on the farm. my dad's checkups and blood work every year are so good the doctor won't tell him that he needs to drop weight but he's an inch shorter than me and 40lbs heavier

 

[Hyde]

but I'd shave 10-40lbs of each of them if I could still cause, well, they all still eat like they are on the farm.

Yeah you can’t out-train a bad diet

But it helps!

 

[Dustin07]

Squats
10 x bar, 95, 135
3 x 175, 215, 245, 275
5 x 290
15 x 135

EZ bar curls
5 x 15

Seated DB curls
3 sets

Hammer curls
3 sets

DB curls, standing
2 drop sets

Leg press
3 x 10-15

Leg ext
4 sets

Leg curls
4 sets



Notes
Yawning between sets! I'm so stoked to hit that 290 x 5 on an otherwise grueling day. That's a local 5 rep high so to me it says I'm still making progress since rejoining the world of squats.


Weight was 187.8lbs at wake up, a new local low. Pounded a protein shake when I woke up, +egg whites and jasmine rice and two of these little waffle things (no syrup) for an extra 75g of preWO carbs.

Being that I wanted 188-189 and came in at 187x I felt that some extra attention both on wakeup protein and carbs was prudent.

 

[Dustin07]

I did manage cardio both Friday and postWO today (Saturday)

Friday
Bike -10min
Incline -10min

Saturday
Bike -10min
Incline -15min

 

[Hyde]

Gotta love fresh squat progress!

 

[akboom87]

3 plates a side incoming!

 

[dapack]

Lifts are looking really good

 

[Dustin07]

Sunday session with my boy

Incline bench warm up
(Gym was packed, waiting on bench
3 light sets

Bench
2 x 10 x 135
3 x 175
1 x 205, 235, 265, 285
5 x 245
10 x 205
12 x 195

Tri push downs
5 x 15+

DB laterals
3 x 15

Notes
Wife's "cheat"/reset craving last night was a sandwich which cracked me up so she got some big chicken BLT (only could eat half lol) and I got this monster cheeseburger with an egg added + onion rings.

Woke up at 191 which seems low for the extra sodium and water retention I would have expected.

Slammed out a fast training session in like 40 minutes with my boy, now headed to the new Alien movie with him.

 

[gphagan1]

Sunday session with my boy

Incline bench warm up
(Gym was packed, waiting on bench
3 light sets

Bench
2 x 10 x 135
3 x 175
1 x 205, 235, 265, 285
5 x 245
10 x 205
12 x 195

Tri push downs
5 x 15+

DB laterals
3 x 15

Notes
Wife's "cheat"/reset craving last night was a sandwich which cracked me up so she got some big chicken BLT (only could eat half lol) and I got this monster cheeseburger with an egg added + onion rings.

Woke up at 191 which seems low for the extra sodium and water retention I would have expected.

Slammed out a fast training session in like 40 minutes with my boy, now headed to the new Alien movie with him.

Nice little quick training session……hope you and your son enjoy the movie and the boys night out.

 

[Hyde]

So how was Alien??

 

[Dustin07]

Nice little quick training session……hope you and your son enjoy the movie and the boys night out.

rushed, but fun little bro sesh!

So how was Alien??

I told him I thought it was the best one, he still says the first one is the best one but said this one was pretty awesome. We got those new "d box" seats (at least they're new to me, I Had no idea they were a thing. rumble seats that seem to move with the space ship etc). Within a few minutes were were looking at each other saying OK this is awesome.

I don't want to give any spoilers but I definitely give it a
If you have a local theater with the rumble seat/d box seats thing then I highly recommend it! we don't go to the movies a lot so I'm stoked we did this as a full big screen cinema experience!

He and I had watched all the Aliens and Predators (and Alien v Predator) back in 2021 when we were locked in AZ for 10 days so this was our first chance to see one in the theater together, did not disappoint!

In terms of chronological timelines, I believe this movie would technically be directly after movie #1 in the timeline so if you watched the original and then rolled right into this one I think the story line works well.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

In terms of chronological timelines, I believe this movie would technically be directly after movie #1 in the timeline so if you watched the original and then rolled right into this one I think the story line works well.

So “Alien” then this new one, and “Aliens” would follow?
Makes sense.

 

[Dustin07]

So “Alien” then this new one, and “Aliens” would follow?
Makes sense.

I'm almost certain that's correct. I don't want to give any spoilers while its fresh in my head but I definitely think that if you watched the original, and then this new one, you'd be in good shape for the story line.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

I'm almost certain that's correct. I don't want to give any spoilers while its fresh in my head but I definitely think that if you watched the original, and then this new one, you'd be in good shape for the story line.

Invalid Link Removed

Just as confusing as the Fast and Furious Saga.

 

[Dustin07]

Just as confusing as the Fast and Furious Saga.

oh yeah my boy and I sorta gave up on getting that one right, we just watch what feels right at the time. But I have to be honest other than the first one, I actually like like tokyo drift and the Miami one (#2?)

 

[Hyde]

oh yeah my boy and I sorta gave up on getting that one right, we just watch what feels right at the time. But I have to be honest other than the first one, I actually like like tokyo drift and the Miami one (#2?)

Yep, first 3 are definitely the best. #3/Tokyo is also basically the only one that operates more or less in the realm of reality, physics-wise.

 

[Dustin07]

Yep, first 3 are definitely the best. #3/Tokyo is also basically the only one that operates more or less in the realm of reality, physics-wise.

the last one was so far beyond reality that I actually found myself enjoying it from the perspective that reality had left the building a while ago and so I'm just absorbing the entertainment factor

 

[Hyde]

the last one was so far beyond reality that I actually found myself enjoying it from the perspective that reality had left the building a while ago and so I'm just absorbing the entertainment factor

You absolutely have to go into it with a full Hollywood acceptance

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah, I think they started really changing the formula in 4, although I have enjoyed all of them several of them surprised me with how far they were willing to take it but I think it fills a genre well. Kind of a comedic Mission Impossible now with all the characters we still love. I have to say this last one is one of my favorites just due to Jason Mamoa's performance. He stole the whole movie and I laugh hysterically at his character. It is definitely my favorite since the the Mission Impossible style switch over.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

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Didn’t work out so well for Cena, but Han and Gisele aren’t dead so who knows?

 

[MrKleen73]

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Didn’t work out so well for Cena, but Han and Gisele aren’t dead so who knows?

No way he died. Full roll cage and everything sliding upside down and flipping. He made it. Only in a movie like this but he made it. The original deal with Paul and Vin's plan was to have everyone together in the last movie. So that is also why Pauls brother is coming back for the next one. So "Brian" can be in it to.

 

[Hyde]

No way he died. Full roll cage and everything sliding upside down and flipping. He made it. Only in a movie like this but he made it. The original deal with Paul and Vin's plan was to have everyone together in the last movie. So that is also why Pauls brother is coming back for the next one. So "Brian" can be in it to.

RIP Paul Walker. Guy died doing it for real.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah he did, at least he went out doing what he loved.

 

[Dustin07]

Yesterday was a TRF day (working on correcting my own terminology).

Cardio
Bike -10min
elipitical - 10min
incline - 20min+

Weight 190

over the weekend my first bottle of GC was ticking me off so I sorta eyeballed the dose a bit as I was trying to knock it out like an upside down ketchup bottle. I'm certain that it was the higest dose I'd had so far but didn't think it would really effect me since I had been increasing dosage anyways and kinda stopped noticing but by Sunday night I did experience a level of anxiety that I haven't really experienced in a long time. Yes it correlates with work stuff too so it's hard to blame one thing over the other. But sleep on sunday night was HORRIBLE. like, didn't sleep.

Monday, I used my new bottle of GC with a good working pump and got my normal dose in, slept much better.

I have to say this last one is one of my favorites just due to Jason Mamoa's performance.

I'm pretty sure #1 still has to be my favorite, but I agree Mamoa definitely stole the stage and that was a great flick!

 

[Hyde]

The thing about whether it was the drugs or work stress is, this drug use never exists in a vacuum. It can be and is both - but that’s a reality we have to understand. Life WILL throw stressful things at us, so it’s important to recognize more gear can make managing stressors more difficult. The gear is both a stressor and emotion amplifier.

 

[Dustin07]

The thing about whether it was the drugs or work stress is, this drug use never exists in a vacuum. It can be and is both - but that’s a reality we have to understand. Life WILL throw stressful things at us, so it’s important to recognize more gear can make managing stressors more difficult. The gear is both a stressor and emotion amplifier.

I think I'm understanding that more. Aggression was up when I was mega dosing the epiandro, and only once or twice did I feel like it amplified angry feelings but I was quick to recognize it. It's easier to be angry though and funnel that emotion than a sensation of anxiety, panic, or depression. Luckily I have experience those things in the past before so I am much better at recognizing it and finding ways to meditate myself into a calmer scenario, recognizing that it doesn't last.

I will say I'm feeling pretty damn fine today though. We have a lot going on with semi permenant house guests all summer (LOL), work is work, etc so it's easy for me to see a compilation of life + some hormone manipulation at play.

All that said, I'm now 4 weeks in. I do think the product has had some pretty phenomenal results even while mostly in a deficit and I'm trying hard to plan for the PCT portion of this so I can maintain this great momentum! current life timelines on my radar:

6 weeks into the cut roughly. Down 11-ish lbs
2 full weeks left until my wife and I go on our road trip
about 8 weeks post road trip until we have our first legit family vacation in many years (taking 2 of her kids and my boy to Mexico for dia de los muertos).

I have to say motivation is high to keep improving ourselves with another 2 months to work towards Mexican beaches!

 

[Dustin07]

Deads
2 x 10 x 135
5 x 225
1 x 275, 315, 365, 405
10 x 315

Seated incline DB curls
5 sets

Superset t bar rows
3 sets

Rear delt swings
3 sets

Lat pull downs.
5 sets

EZ bar 21s
2 sets x 60lbs

Honestly
In the moment I wanted to say it was a shitty workout because I just didn't feel very worked. But got to the locker room, had a great pump, feel good and worked an hour later. Maybe we pulled the rip cord at exactly the right time.

Contemplated a 445 pull but honestly 405 felt adequately hard for a training session.

 

[Dustin07]

one small thing I almost don't even want to mention. on the inside of my left foot like 1/2" up from the pad of the heal I'm getting this stretching sensation. a brief fire pins and needles that feels external enough that I could rub it out if the pain persisted more than a few seconds. It's super infrequent, but a new sensation. nothing like plantar fasciitis on the bottom. most likely just repetitive stress from the cardio I've reintroduced, but today I noticed it when I was setting up my warm up pulls in my flats.

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I'm not worried about it yet by any means, but I'm going to watch it and keep it in mind when doing cardio. it seems like a potentially sensitive area that I don't want to have to heal from an injury.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

That’s sux. Foot pain no bueno. I get it in the arch after calf raises. It like a lactic acid burn but different if that makes any sense. It’s uncomfortable to even stand. Never had this b4.

 

[Dustin07]

yeah I don't have arch issues if I use quality shoes. I am a sandals guy, but I have to be smart as even too much sandals wrecks my feet. I have had plantar to the point for MONTHS (maybe a year+) i had to stretch my foot out for the first 10 minutes every single morning even just to get up and pee. I don't really have any real issues worth noting at the moment but the fact that my heel strain was there just from the standing position while getting ready to pull kinda raised a red flag. I "think" I've been lucky to not have injuries lately because I tend to address it at first onset. however, historically I only get hurt when I'm leaning up so there's that.... haha

 

[Dustin07]

Little PM cardio

Bike -20min
Inclin -15min

 

[akboom87]

Wonder if some of the Transdermal curcumin can help knock some of it down?

 

[Hyde]

Take your thumbs and forcefully probe/work along that calf and along the Achilles and make sure you don’t have any built up adhesions. If you notice pain/sensitivity in a spot, really lay into it with your thumbs until it hurts less - that’s how you know you released it.

If you find none or still get the pain after removing adhesions, try holding a band around your toes/ball of the foot and draw the ABCs to see if loosening the ankle before training makes any difference.

Both of those have helped me in the past at different times. I don’t know jack about feet/ankles, but strongman fucks them up easily lol.

 

[Dustin07]

Take your thumbs and forcefully probe/work along that calf and along the Achilles and make sure you don’t have any built up adhesions. If you notice pain/sensitivity in a spot, really lay into it with your thumbs until it hurts less - that’s how you know you released it.

If you find none or still get the pain after removing adhesions, try holding a band around your toes/ball of the foot and draw the ABCs to see if loosening the ankle before training makes any difference.

Both of those have helped me in the past at different times. I don’t know jack about feet/ankles, but strongman fucks them up easily lol.

I've been playing with it quite a bit looking for a spot like you mentioned and haven't felt anything but I'll add in the banded stretching today since it's squat day anyways for sure. Appreciate the tip! This morning I could feel it a bit just getting dressed so that's sorta a mild red flag. My wife wants me to head down to the foot store and get fitted better for new shoes and see if they can improve upon my Sauconys. Although I've really liked being able to always buy last years model at 50% off....

I'm not too worried but yeah briefly this morning it's sorta like someone takes a tooth pick and pokes it in that spot, similar to a tearing sensation so I'm just watching it...