To Infinity.... and Beyond!

[jinxie]

It’s okay to take a little time off squats if you’re trying to heal things up. If you continue to pull a lot, maybe do some GMs or whatever other lower work doesn’t bother you, you will be fine.

If you are using your legs to lift heavy, they damn sure won’t get weaker. There may be a few weeks of relearning the movement when you come back but it will be very fast.

Hope this is true! I’ve been DLing but not squatting for 8 months, and I’m reintroducing squats tomorrow.

 

[jinxie]

deads
6 x 135
5 x 165
3 x 195
5 x 245
3 x 280
10 x 310

bbb
5 x 10 x 185

conditioning
30 Min LISS

notes
That wraps up cycle 1 of jumping back into things. based on 531 calculations

Started with --->>> Ended with
Deads 365 --->>> 413
Bench 250 --->>> 265
Squats 275 --->>> 274
Press 175 --->>> 175

mixed bag. squats started with a sore adductor, press I'm a little surprised struggled. deads and bench seem to be on par and a fine place to start rebuilding from. Honestly if I could never squat again and focus 100% on deads I'd be happy lol.

That’s more like it!

 

[dapack]

Numbers looking good

 

[Hyde]

Hope this is true! I’ve been DLing but not squatting for 8 months, and I’m reintroducing squats tomorrow.

Lol I suppose it depends on what constitutes a little time off, right?

 

[Hyde]

Hope this is true! I’ve been DLing but not squatting for 8 months, and I’m reintroducing squats tomorrow.

Lol I suppose it depends on what constitutes a little time off, right?

 

[jinxie]

Lol I suppose it depends on what constitutes a little time off, right?

I’m old — 8 months is a little time, lol.

 

[Dustin07]

deload week

bench
5 x 95
5 x 115
3 x 135
3 x 5 x 135 (Wendler actually prescribes another set of 5/5/3 at 95/115/135 but I couldn't bring myself to do that)

bbb
5 x 10 x 115

conditioning
30mins LISS
mixed in 1/10th mile sprints after every duolingo lesson I accomplished on the treadmill lol
I know i need to step up my conditioning intensity but this has become a way for me to get 30 minutes of Spanish practice in every day....

It’s okay to take a little time off squats if you’re trying to heal things up. If you continue to pull a lot, maybe do some GMs or whatever other lower work doesn’t bother you, you will be fine.

If you are using your legs to lift heavy, they damn sure won’t get weaker. There may be a few weeks of relearning the movement when you come back but it will be very fast.

I'm not sure what to call it. It's one of those sore/injuries that you need to have years of experience to recognize I think. a new lifter might just back off for weeks, visit PT etc, but I can tell by the nature of it and how it feels that it's more of a "work through it, but cautiously" type thing.

Your advice on the adductor machine helped a lot. early in this cycle I played with my foot positioning and found that a narrower stance than my normal helped avoid the pain, it's just less effective. I think it's about 90% recovered though. For me it's always been normal to be sore and stiff through all my warm up sets then suddenly feel great on my working set(s) of squats.

 

[Dustin07]

That’s more like it!

Gracias amigo! It was a mental grind through the first few weeks. was fat, out of shape, joints hurt, muscles hurt, out of routine. Adding another gym membership next to my office helps a lot though! crappy gym but for $35 they have enough of the essentials to help fit into my schedule!

last year when I deloaded I think I stepped away from the barbell 100% and spent that week golfing. this year I'm still trying to hit the driving range at lunch when I can, but following Wendlers program 100%.

 

[jinxie]

Keep it up dude! The wind is at your back now!

 

[Dustin07]

Week 1, Cycle 2:

normal warm up:
with empty barbell
10-15 x bent over rows
10 x RDLs
10 x power cleans
20 x overhead press
10 x curls
15-20 bench press
this is my normal warm up routine that i do every session regardless of lift to loosen up the elbows, shoulders, biceps, back etc.

bench
5 x 95
5 x 115
3 x 140
5 x 150
5 x 175
12 x 195

bbb
5 x 10 x 115

dips
10 x bw
4 x 10 x bw +25lbs

ss with barbell curls
10 x 65lbs
4 x 10 x 75lbs

liss
30mins incline treadmill

weight
186

notes
was pleasantly surprised to be 186 vs 191. Wife and I are going dry now to rest the livers and take dieting a little more serious. I'm upping my supps again. a little Creatine, carnatine, CLA, etc. Getting a lot of positive comments from the guys at the gym about my upper body looking the biggest they've ever seen (shoulders, arms, chest/back) but they don't know/realize that I've also added an inch to my gut (the leather squat belt doesn't lie, I'm usually on hole 3-4, I hit hole 5 last summer, now I'm on hole 2 or 3.

i'm also reminded why I always peter out after 2 cycles of 5/3/1. Starting week 1 with a required 11 reps to beat "PR" (as far as the app knows) is insane. that will really catch me when it's squats. I had 13-14 reps in me but only needed 11 to make progress so I took 12.

After this cycle I need to recalculate maxes and start back at legit 5/3/1 reps.

 

[dapack]

Hard to recover doing all those reps on deads/ squats. Maybe strive for +5 for the last set whatever week you are on.

 

[Dustin07]

warmup
normal routine

squats
5 x 105
5 x 135
3 x 155
5 x 165
5 x 195
10 x 220 (needed 8)

bbb
5 x 10 x 135 (rx was 115)

LISS
incline treadmill

Hard to recover doing all those reps on deads/ squats. Maybe strive for +5 for the last set whatever week you are on.

yeah last night things really started to fall into place. Current cycle calls for 8 reps to "beat cycle PR", that's always my goal. I cranked out 10 and I think I had maybe 14+ in me if I wanted to grind but I opted to leave it at 10 so I had some in the tank for next session. I just need to be better about recalculating 1rm when starting cycle #3 I think so i don't let it drop me back to like 195 x 15 reps or something crazy. the 531 approach definitely works well for me, but only for 2 cycles historically before I'm hammered CNS-wise.

 

[Hyde]

I always calculate out the working weights before I set a training max so I can decide what I think will be effective for progress. They all end up being very different % of my real max based on the specific lifts. Bench tends to be the heaviest, while squats I use whatever is going to have me working between 6-10 reps for my AMRAPS (that’s just something that works well for me I’ve found).

 

[Dustin07]

I always calculate out the working weights before I set a training max so I can decide what I think will be effective for progress. They all end up being very different % of my real max based on the specific lifts. Bench tends to be the heaviest, while squats I use whatever is going to have me working between 6-10 reps for my AMRAPS (that’s just something that works well for me I’ve found).

That's a solid approach. When I owned my gym we brought in 531. At first I was quite opposed to it because most of those athletes were inexperienced enough that a straight forward sets across program would have seen gains, and 531 required massive spreadsheets to help keep everyone straight... But in the end, I think I had like 98% of the athletes set PRs so I decided maybe it was a good approach.

I have the 531 app now so all I do is show up and log my lifts inbetween sets, takes some thinking out. but I have to be smart at the end of this cycle to recalculate my 1rm so that it raises my working sets to a higher weight and lower rep scheme, otherwise it just keeps adding reps at weights that are likely too low, IMO. So conditioning/hypertrophy are being established (as I'm sure 1rm is also improving) but at a bit more of a detriment to CNS.

My CNS is great NOW. probably at peak functionality in some ways. I'm just very aware of what week 4 of cycle 2 has done to me in the past so I want to plan for that now, especially as I'm cleaning up nutrition pre summer.

 

[Dustin07]

press
5 x 65
5 x 80
3 x 100
5 x 105
5 x 120
9 x 140 (needed 8 for cycle pr)

push press
3 x 5 x 165
this one confuses me. was tough after the 140lb set which was easy. I kept recounting my plates over and over thinking it was 185

bbb
5 x 10 x 95

lateral raises
10 x 25
10 x 27.5
10 x 30

forward raises
10 x 20
10 x 22.5
10 x 25

tri rope push downs
3 x 15 x 100

liss
30mins

weight
187

 

[Dustin07]

Friday

deads
10 x 135
5 x 170
3 x 205
5 x 220
5 x 255
15 x 290 (needed like 11 or 12 I think)

RDL's
3 x 10 x 225

bbb
5 x 10 x 170

BB Row
3 x 10 x 115

death by power clean and press
10 rounds / 55 reps @ 115lbs

i'm out of shape

LISS
treadmill 20 min

notes
walked a round of golf this weekend as well sans alcohol for some form of rehab to help beat DOMS from that deadlift session. all in all good stuff.

 

[Dustin07]

bench
10 x 95
5 x 115
3 x 140
3 x 160
3 x 185
11 x 205

bbb
6 x 10 x 115

db curls
10 x 35
10 x 40
10 x 45
10 x 35
10 x 30

hammer curls
3 x 10 x 45

liss
30 minutes on air runner with .25mil sprint intervals

weight
188.6

 

[jinxie]

****, I feel you nipping at my heals again, fatty! Nice work!!!

I’ve def lost a little strength with the 8 pounds I’ve shedded. Still need to lose 3-5 more, but will do it slower. Will reintroduce carbs in June.

What are your plans? You gonna start cutting?

 

[Dustin07]

****, I feel you nipping at my heals again, fatty! Nice work!!!

I’ve def lost a little strength with the 8 pounds I’ve shedded. Still need to lose 3-5 more, but will do it slower. Will reintroduce carbs in June.

What are your plans? You gonna start cutting?

This is the slowest cut I've ever done in my life and the result is that I'm holding more mass than I ever have. I'm actually really liking the way things are looking now. I'm sorta using the lifting belt as my guide rather than the scale. Instead of extremely intense HIIT training and running until my heels and knees explode, I'm doing a lot of LISS which is easier for me than ever before because.............. that's when I practice my spanish lol. BUT I'm still moving at a fast enough clip or with enough incline that I'm sweating buckets by the time I finish a 30minute+ session.

As far as goals go... I'm just trying to maintain forward momentum with the barbell.
on bodyfat, last summer when I dropped down to the most American weight (177.6lbs) I was on the 4th-5th hole on my lifting belt.

A couple weeks ago I was on the second hole..... now I'm on the third again with some spare change. So I think I'm chasing the 4th-5th hole on the lifting belt again but I'm sorta curious to see if I can keep my body weight over 180lbs at that same marker..... I've always been really bad about saving lean mass when cutting. I know I can drop 10lbs in a month but it will be half muscle...

 

[Dustin07]

squats
5 x 105
5 x 135
3 x 155
3 x 185
3 x 205
11 x 230 (needed 9. I think I actually had 15 in me)

bbb
6 x 10 x 135

LISS
30Min+

weight
187

notes
not drinking during the week.. that's probably saving me 3,000 calories.
food is pretty dialed. supps are good.
Getting accessories in on squat day is still a bit of a challenge due to time and energy constraints. sorta putting it all on the field with that working set and 5x10 BBB.

 

[Dustin07]

Current update per five3one app

 

[Segansational]

Current update per five3one app



View attachment 215689

Hmm, might need to look into this app.

 

[jinxie]

Hmm, might need to look into this app.

I use the same one and like it.

 

[Dustin07]

Hmm, might need to look into this app.

I use the same one and like it.

yeah for the first time in my life last year I let 'someone' else handle my programming. After running a few cycles with this now I've done two things differently this go:

a. I'm not doing joker sets. just main AMRAP + BBB.
b. at the end of month 2 I'm going to recalculate 1rm and start over because otherwise the rep scheme gets way too high and far too taxing. Like right now doing deads at 290 x 15. I just checked and my next dead session I have to hit 305 x 13 to "beat PR" and continue upward trajectory.

I'm sure that's feasible but I'm not sure a working set of deadlifts at 10-15 reps every time makes sense. I'd like to start over with my new 1rm's calculated where I'm pulling like 385 x 5 or 405 x 3 or something. I've always been a high rep guy naturally so I need practice pulling heavy singles.

 

[Hyde]

You could also pull a top single once a month maybe before the AMRAP work?

 

[jinxie]

yeah for the first time in my life last year I let 'someone' else handle my programming. After running a few cycles with this now I've done two things differently this go:

a. I'm not doing joker sets. just main AMRAP + BBB.
b. at the end of month 2 I'm going to recalculate 1rm and start over because otherwise the rep scheme gets way too high and far too taxing. Like right now doing deads at 290 x 15. I just checked and my next dead session I have to hit 305 x 13 to "beat PR" and continue upward trajectory.

I'm sure that's feasible but I'm not sure a working set of deadlifts at 10-15 reps every time makes sense. I'd like to start over with my new 1rm's calculated where I'm pulling like 385 x 5 or 405 x 3 or something. I've always been a high rep guy naturally so I need practice pulling heavy singles.

I feel you on the high reps. I think I’m on cycle 12 now, and I’m still pulling 6+ on my 1 day. Would prefer to be doing around 3. But for bench and OHP, it’s just right. Think I may up my training max rather than start over.

 

[Dustin07]

You could also pull a top single once a month maybe before the AMRAP work?

I sorta was thinking that same thing. if AMRAPis say 315 maybe work up to 385-405 etc for a single, then just drop back down to the amrap set, finish with bbb / accessories... depending on how the cns responds I could methodically add the same increment (5-10lbs/week for example) to the top rep goal as well as the amrap.

I'm almost tempted to sacrifice squats for a few months and see if I can add 10lbs / month to deads until October. that's a lot of linear progression but would put me at 500 for my 40th bday.

 

[Hyde]

I sorta was thinking that same thing. if AMRAPis say 315 maybe work up to 385-405 etc for a single, then just drop back down to the amrap set, finish with bbb / accessories... depending on how the cns responds I could methodically add the same increment (5-10lbs/week for example) to the top rep goal as well as the amrap.

I'm almost tempted to sacrifice squats for a few months and see if I can add 10lbs / month to deads until October. that's a lot of linear progression but would put me at 500 for my 40th bday.

Have you ever pulled 500? That is a goal worth chasing if not. If you have, I’d probably just keep it more balanced, but I can still see the appeal.

 

[Dustin07]

Have you ever pulled 500? That is a goal worth chasing if not. If you have, I’d probably just keep it more balanced, but I can still see the appeal.

na always peaked at 450/455 with avg weight around 176 +/- 2 or 4lbs.
Same with bench, always peak at 280, so 300 at 180 would be a nice accomplishment.
I tend to AMRAP a rep/weight combo that calculates out to these goals or higher, and then kill my CNS on the amrap rather than the single...

 

[Hyde]

You’re talking about adding 10% to deadlifts and 7% to bench without adding any appreciable weight or using AAS, in less than 6 months, as an already veteran trainee.

To get what you’ve never gotten, you must do what you’ve never done. I propose a radically different training approach.

I think if you want to do that, in those constraints, I would focus all of my recovery on doing the things that most directly build those lifts. Specificity & frequency would be the name of the game for me. I would have 3 pressing instances a week & 2-3 lower, probably over 5 days of work per week initially then tapering to 4. At first I would have one instance of comp bench & deadlift a week and fill the others with variant builders like closegrip bench, floorpress, incline press, seated military, JM presses, Spoto press, concentric/pin presses & deficit deads, Blockpulls, good mornings, rack pulls, band-lightened deadlifts, sumo pulls, speed work vs chains or bands, RDLs. Any accessories would be very minimal & specific or for health (GHR, leg curls, bracing work, Skullcrushers, Pressdowns, Facepulls, Pullaparts, Hammercurls) because it’s most important to press 3 times a week in that scenario vs lots of bodybuilding (since you are gaining no appreciable weight).

As time moved on I would make the non comp days more and more specific (good mornings become RDLs become deficit deads), and towards the end I would lower frequency a hair to aid recovery as the weights get more intense.

This would require a ton of mapping out prior, and even more auto-regulation to manage. But I don’t think backing off squats for some extra pulls is going to cut it. I also don’t think boring but big is useful in an isocaloric environment for someone focused on raising strength without size.

 

[Hyde]

Boy what a brain dump. I just had a Reign energy drink at lunch

 

[Dustin07]

press
5 x 65
5 x 85
3 x 105
3 x 115
3 x 135
6 x 145 (missed, needed 8)

bbb
5 x 10 x 95

lateral raises
5 x 10

ss with db curls
5 x 10

bb curls
5 x 10

(still trying to figure out how dapack gets 100-200 reps in lol)

notes
a single miss doesn't = trend so not worried yet.
it was a really weird miss. hit LA Fitness at my lunch today so I could squeeze in a session so there's plenty of reasons why this could be, including the fact that I had to take the bar out of one of those crappy squat racks with preset j hooks. I'm sure I'll bounce back through this one without an issue.

 

[Dustin07]

Boy what a brain dump. I just had a Reign energy drink at lunch

yeah but they're good thoughts, I appreciate the time you took. Gives me a more creative approach.
I know you're right, I gotta figure out how to apply it now.

I think sacrificing squats entirely is just bad form. having a monster squat isn't my life goal but being able to squat is important to being a functional human. Maybe instead of amrap'ing them 5/3/1 style, I just do a top set of 5 and follow up with deadlift-based accessories as mentioned.

The pressing markers are going to be a little harder for me to find some solutions on.

are you suggesting for instance I have a heavy bench and deadlift say on monday working up to a 1rm (maybe at an RPE of say 8.5/9?) followed up with actual press centric day and deadlift centric days later in the week (pulls, deficits, chains, etc) ?

 

[jinxie]

Actually, you’ve built your strength back quickly as of late. I’d just drop the bbb and add in another bench and DL day per week and see where it takes you. But if you really want it, @Hyde’s plan sounds solid.

I’ve been strongly contemplating another bench day so I can get to 315. Never gotten beyond 300. Just need to make the time and set it as a priority.

 

[Hyde]

yeah but they're good thoughts, I appreciate the time you took. Gives me a more creative approach.
I know you're right, I gotta figure out how to apply it now.

I think sacrificing squats entirely is just bad form. having a monster squat isn't my life goal but being able to squat is important to being a functional human. Maybe instead of amrap'ing them 5/3/1 style, I just do a top set of 5 and follow up with deadlift-based accessories as mentioned.

The pressing markers are going to be a little harder for me to find some solutions on.

are you suggesting for instance I have a heavy bench and deadlift say on monday working up to a 1rm (maybe at an RPE of say 8.5/9?) followed up with actual press centric day and deadlift centric days later in the week (pulls, deficits, chains, etc) ?

Well the actual comp grip benchpress & deadlift stance, I would have those each be their own days. Then the other mechanically similar movements you can spread out how you see fit.

You know I had a thought that maybe to simplify all that you could find a Sheiko template and just swap in some movement variants in lie of repeats of the comp bench & deadlift in the week. That would lay out exact percents to ballpark things & suggested volume and everything, make it more plug & play.

Frontsquat has a bigger carryover to conventional deadlift, as does Zercher squats and Safety Bar/Hi Bar squatting. Using those variants when you squat would probably transfer more, while also mandating a bit less weight on the bar - which ultimately means more recovery spared for the deadlift.

 

[Dustin07]

I'll post full log details tomorrow. Here's what I went with for today as the 1rm calculator gives me the same estimated top pull but doing it by a different method (less. Volume)

This was prescribed programming

 

[Dustin07]

Vs what I did

 

[dapack]

Well the actual comp grip benchpress & deadlift stance, I would have those each be their own days. Then the other mechanically similar movements you can spread out how you see fit.

You know I had a thought that maybe to simplify all that you could find a Sheiko template and just swap in some movement variants in lie of repeats of the comp bench & deadlift in the week. That would lay out exact percents to ballpark things & suggested volume and everything, make it more plug & play.

Frontsquat has a bigger carryover to conventional deadlift, as does Zercher squats and Safety Bar/Hi Bar squatting. Using those variants when you squat would probably transfer more, while also mandating a bit less weight on the bar - which ultimately means more recovery spared for the deadlift.

Did Skeiko a long time ago and could only last about 4 to 5 weeks max before I was done in. Took forever to complete a session but did get good gains. Maybe was using the wrong template?

 

[Dustin07]

deads
10 x 135
1 x 185
1 x 225
1 x 275
1 x 300
1 x 325
1 x 350
6 x 375

rdls
3 x 8 x 225

rack pulls
300/365/385
I forgot how awkward these are at first

reverse hypers
3 x 10 x 70lbs.
Light weight but with as much as a hold and slow decline as possible

GHD back raises
3 x 10 x +25lbs.
again, super light but stepping back into an old movement.

I did find a Sheiko app, and I'll do some exploring in the templates to see what I can find. I was up last night from like 1am till the alarm went off at 4:30am with massive sore glutes, hammies, calves, ankles, feet, and restless leg syndrome. usually takes a coupole days for doms but I'm more than a little happy that today is a pressing day and I can give my lower some rest, ha.

weight
187

 

[Hyde]

Did Skeiko a long time ago and could only last about 4 to 5 weeks max before I was done in. Took forever to complete a session but did get good gains. Maybe was using the wrong template?

Yeah there are a ton, and the thing to keep in mind is they were all specifically created for individual elite lifters that had exceptional recovery modalities at their disposal for the job of powerlifting for the country.

The idea would be to find something as a baseline skeleton and then modify and scale that for Dustin’s needs & realistic recovery potential.

 

[Dustin07]

Yeah there are a ton, and the thing to keep in mind is they were all specifically created for individual elite lifters that had exceptional recovery modalities at their disposal for the job of powerlifting for the country.

The idea would be to find something as a baseline skeleton and then modify and scale that for Dustin’s needs & realistic recovery potential.

as a former crossfitter sometimes it's hard for me to accept that a workout is more effective when I walk out of the gym successfully rather than having to be carried out on a gurney. So on the other side of that coin I need to make sure that I'm putting in enough effort still, while not over doing it. I guess I just repeated you, but after all these years finding that balance is still incredibly difficult.

 

[dapack]

as a former crossfitter sometimes it's hard for me to accept that a workout is more effective when I walk out of the gym successfully rather than having to be carried out on a gurney. So on the other side of that coin I need to make sure that I'm putting in enough effort still, while not over doing it. I guess I just repeated you, but after all these years finding that balance is still incredibly difficult.

Still deal with that myself, specially with deads. One reason I think never get anywhere.

 

[Dustin07]

bench
5 x 95
5 x 115
3 x 140
5 x 175
3 x 195
6 x 220

dips
10 x bw
8 x +25lbs
3 x 8 x +50lbs

incline bench
10 x 95
10 x 115
4 x 7 x 135

liss
20min

 

[Dustin07]

well, psychologically, i'm in training mode again which is nice. so sleeping is on par (ZMA), drinking is next to zero, eating is sharp. Carbs with breakfast, and lunch, and also in my pre workout shake. When I do 2 wods, the first wod is much harder for me because I'm doing it alone so I have to self motivate to push through and really try. the 2nd wod is much easier because I do it in a semi competitive format with other guys going side by side. so even if I'm dog tired, I can summon something.

legs are feeling really good. the weight just feels heavy on my back so I just need to keep at it.

If it weren't for real life I'd love to do 2 a days again. a good hard wod in the morning, then heavy lifting and another wod in the afternoon.

Man I didn't realize how good I had it.

 

[Dustin07]

Lateral shoulder raises
3 x 10

Forward raises
3 x 10

DB bench
10 x 40
5 x 55
5 x 65
5 x 75
3 x 5 x 85

Decline bench
10 x 95
10 x 115
10 x 135
2s x 10r x 155

Tri cable pull downs
3 x 10

Tri cable push downs
3 x 15
LISS
20min

Almost noped out on today, dragging my ass but need more frequency. Pounded some carbs and forces through. Tried to mix things up a little and start to get the body used to inclines and declines again since I haven't been doing those things.

I feel like the last time I declined I was doing sets at 225. I also remember getting stuck under the bar once so who knows

 

[jinxie]

Decline? Wtf!?!?

 

[jinxie]

Man I didn't realize how good I had it.

Lol. When was that? I’m lucky to get through 3x40 min and 2x20 min sessions per week. I guess that’s only 2.66 hrs per week — and I just supplemented with the 2x20 min sessions. That’s pretty lame.

 

[Dustin07]

Lol. When was that? I’m lucky to get through 3x40 min and 2x20 min sessions per week. I guess that’s only 2.66 hrs per week — and I just supplemented with the 2x20 min sessions. That’s pretty lame.

2015
I'm glad to hear you feel the time pain too lol, makes me feel slightly less like a pussy when I bitch about my schedule

 

[jinxie]

2015
I'm glad to hear you feel the time pain too lol, makes me feel slightly less like a pussy when I bitch about my schedule

You’re far from a pussy, lol.

 

[Dustin07]

Decline? Wtf!?!?

Yeah my regular gym doesn't have a decline bench but my "emergency/close to work" one does so I thought getting my body used to declines and inclines again this week might be smart. inclines are a bit rough on the shoulders, but declines felt great.