TO eat or NOT to eat during sleep?

TO eat or NOT to eat during sleep?

  • EAT in the middle of the night to feed muscles.

    Votes: 28 28.6%

  • DO NOT eat in the middle of the night so that you do not disrupt sleep and GH secretion.

    Votes: 70 71.4%
  • Total voters
    98
I generally avoid to eat 2 or so hours before sleep. We all know the benefits of natural growth hormone (GH) such as fat incineration, immune system boosting, bone synthesis, anabolism, muscle repair and re-modelling, and so on. And we also know that GH secretion is triggered by two main events, namely, exercise and sleep. Hence, if you want to take advantage of GH secretion in your sleep state (I believe the highest serum/cellular GH concentrations are reached about two hours after we fall asleep), you might want to hit bed on an empty stomach. The reason is that when you eat before retiring, or "during" sleep (if this is technically possible), you are likely to experience elevated insulin levels, increased blood sugar, and elevated circulating fat levels in the blood. All these inhibit GH release, and ensure GH would be unable to do the desired activities of muscle-growth stimulation, muscle-repair and re-modelling, fat-burning, and so on.
 
strategicmove said:
I generally avoid to eat 2 or so hours before sleep. We all know the benefits of natural growth hormone (GH) such as fat incineration, immune system boosting, bone synthesis, anabolism, muscle repair and re-modelling, and so on. And we also know that GH secretion is triggered by two main events, namely, exercise and sleep. Hence, if you want to take advantage of GH secretion in your sleep state (I believe the highest serum/cellular GH concentrations are reached about two hours after we fall asleep), you might want to hit bed on an empty stomach. The reason is that when you eat before retiring, or "during" sleep (if this is technically possible), you are likely to experience elevated insulin levels, increased blood sugar, and elevated circulating fat levels in the blood. All these inhibit GH release, and ensure GH would be unable to do the desired activities of muscle-growth stimulation, muscle-repair and re-modelling, fat-burning, and so on.
Click to expand...

That seems to be the consensus, but how does GH exert its anabolic effects without its macronutrient building blocks, aka amino acids?...especially the EAAs? Some have suggested supplementing with BCAAs/EAAs, but is this enough? Where do the other amino acids come from? Are they synthesized by the body? If so, is this a rate limiting step in building muscle at night?
 
A qoute from EasyEJL:


heres a quote from another thread, may make you think twQuote:
overeating has the same effect as drinking alcohol ( the liver just cant keep up ) they both inhibit the P450 system and therefore create a Testosterone to Estrogen conversion.

this is why its quite important to not eat before bed and only eat until about 80% full ( you should be able to exercise after eating a meal if need be)
so you don't want to overeat pre-bed, as it may make for more test->estro conversion during the nite.
End qoute:




My thoughts,albeit added in ahaphazard manner as I'm about to turn in for the night.....

True WRT P450 inhibition and overeating butone has to considert the total of kcals consumed for the day before you refer to eating pre-bed as over eating.

For a maintainaince high pro/moderate cho/moderate healthy fat with trade cietary fat IOW A CKD diet,consuming a tablespoon of natty PB with some a tabelsonn of fish oil along with a low carb/low fat casien based pro shake is the ideal play to make for muscle retention.

When looking at intermittent fasting,one consumes upwards of 80% of their kcal value per day (allowing 20% for higher % casien shakes (I like Optimum's 100% Casien with some psylium husk and inulin bulk fiber added for satiety when taken pre bed)thorughout the day with a small 800-1000 kcal meal before bed,high protien,EFA's,lean meat and some animal fat.

It seems liike IF type diets,even when consuming 10-20% below maintainance kcals,allow for steady fat loss and strength gains,according to the 3 longs I ve been following on mindandmuscle.Anecdotal feedbaclk aside,there are several studies confirming how beneficial IF can be,adherence is another matter entirely though but like anyhing else,cravings and so on can be trumped after some time on it.
 
Colin said:
A qoute from EasyEJL:


heres a quote from another thread, may make you think twQuote:
overeating has the same effect as drinking alcohol ( the liver just cant keep up ) they both inhibit the P450 system and therefore create a Testosterone to Estrogen conversion.

this is why its quite important to not eat before bed and only eat until about 80% full ( you should be able to exercise after eating a meal if need be)
so you don't want to overeat pre-bed, as it may make for more test->estro conversion during the nite.
End qoute:




My thoughts,albeit added in ahaphazard manner as I'm about to turn in for the night.....

True WRT P450 inhibition and overeating butone has to considert the total of kcals consumed for the day before you refer to eating pre-bed as over eating.

For a maintainaince high pro/moderate cho/moderate healthy fat with trade cietary fat IOW A CKD diet,consuming a tablespoon of natty PB with some a tabelsonn of fish oil along with a low carb/low fat casien based pro shake is the ideal play to make for muscle retention.

When looking at intermittent fasting,one consumes upwards of 80% of their kcal value per day (allowing 20% for higher % casien shakes (I like Optimum's 100% Casien with some psylium husk and inulin bulk fiber added for satiety when taken pre bed)thorughout the day with a small 800-1000 kcal meal before bed,high protien,EFA's,lean meat and some animal fat.

It seems liike IF type diets,even when consuming 10-20% below maintainance kcals,allow for steady fat loss and strength gains,according to the 3 longs I ve been following on mindandmuscle.Anecdotal feedbaclk aside,there are several studies confirming how beneficial IF can be,adherence is another matter entirely though but like anyhing else,cravings and so on can be trumped after some time on it.
Click to expand...

Optimum Casien tastes disgusting, the chocolate anyway. It is SOOOO bad. What flavor do you use?
 
Interesting thread worth a bump. I've always eaten before I go to bed, either casein or some protein but I'm going to try eating my last meal 1.5hrs before bed for a few days and see how it goes. I'm probably going to wake up hungry but I'll see how it goes, I might go the BCAA route.
 
I think night time supplementation and food is hard, on one hand you don't want insulin messing with your GH release, on the other hand you don't want cortisol...

From my understanding carbs create a 2 phase insulin release while aminos are a single burst... So following on from that...

About 3 hours before bed I had my last meal (whatever really, as long as it has mean in it), then about an hour before bed I drink some BCAA. I think aminos and fats at night would not be as disruptive as carbs.

Insulin response is complex and well over my head, but that is my grasp on it.
 
Ok since we are all weighing in on this - the assumption is that you are trying to gain mass - if you were trying to cut, you would be eating fish 6 times a day and not eating past 7pm - and doing cardio in the morning with BCAAs prior to breakfast. Now 1st of all, I agree with all of you that said "dont distrib sleep to eat" - and by the way, to add to that - "dont have carbohydrates in the evening before sleep either (exception being right after a workout if you happen to workout in the evening)". In my book DIALED IN, I discuss in detail calculating total calories needed, and the macronutrient mix (what % of the total calories should be fat, carbs, and protein), then you spread then meals out across your day so that you have 6- 9 meals - the reason it could be so many depends on your calorie needs. The idea is that you eat every 1.5 to 3 hrs. I recommend that only about 3 of the meals have EFAs (good fats in them), and that you start out the day with a high carb meal, and tapor for the next few. So yes, you may end of with an extra protein shake a couple hrs before bed. Now if you find that you are not gaining fat (per body fat % tests every two weeks) and could gain more muscle from more calories, then in those 6-9 meals, and more calories. You will want to be careful of the mix and not just add protein. Certainly do not add simple carbs. I really doubt that if you are meeting your caloric needs that you would go into a catabolic state and start having your body eat muscle --- driving you to need to take a 2 am feeding. Sounds to me like a lot of hype from the supplement companies. However, here is the trick - if you have read this long you deserve to know the trick. You want whey protein for fast absorption into the muscles for recovery muscle building. At night, you want a slow aborption protein - so take Casein protein supplements. And rest knowing you will not go catabloic during sleep - and if you wake up - get back to sleep as soon as you can.
For more information on the timing of supplements and the improtance of sleep, and the mix you need to meet your bodybuilding goals, go to
http:/stores.lulu.com/RYAN4748
info on the book DIALED IN
 
I said no to poll also... you dont keep waking up and messing with your gh and test production...... you might try and eat either peanut butter and jelly or peanut butter and banana sandwiches. also take a casein protein (the casein takes 6-8 hrs to digest completely) before the bed so your muscles eat all night
 
casein protein 50g will keep you full all night and leave you refreshed when you wake up. if for some crazy reason you actually burn through that at night, bump it up to 75g. casein and only casein, as it sticks together in your stomach like a solid clump, preventing your stomach juices from digesting all of it at once. missing out on REM sleep blunts GH response, and heavy carbs before bed does the same. it tastes nasty, and usually takes me about 20 min to finish a shake, but it does work. if you need more calories, add 1-2 tsp of EVOO to the mix - all good fats with no/minimal carbs.
 
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