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TimberLakers M-Drol Massacre

It was fun while it lasted Timber. Better to be safe than sorry. One thing that goes along with all of the conflicting information out there is that everyone's body is different and will react in different ways to these compounds.
 
Not to worry... I have most of a bottle of Epi that I am gonna cram down Timber's throat once he gets here... no more gyno issues with that one!!!*

*Disclaimer: Do not cram bottles of Epistane down ones throat, doing so may cause choking....
 
Well, I doubt he'll actually go for it... but it's his if he wants it.
 
I'm not even sure how that would work given that I'm off a compound for almost 48 hours.

Epi is an AI though... :twisted:
 
TimberLakers said:
So the dreaded question for you gentlemen from the Timber camp...

My left nipple is a bit sensitive to the touch, and there appears to be a small soft bump underneath.

I know I was pumped as sh*t for this cycle... but is this the kiss of death for my 3 week run?

I have a few ideas to run by you guys...

First would be to run a low dose AI at night (I have 6-oxo)... perhaps 100mg to see if that improves anything.

The other idea would be to stop the cycle and start my PCT immediately.

I know running low dose Nolva with a progesterone is a bad idea as it sensitizes the progesterone receptors.

Ideas would be appreciated. Pretty bummed out. :sad:
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wtf?!?!? NO.

NOOOOOOOOOO.

that sucks man.

Also NO to the Nolva sensitizing, who the heck said that and wheres the proof????


Man Superdrol is what GAVE me my gyno so listen and listen closely for what I did that DIDNT work and what I did that worked IMMEDIATELY and is what you want to do now, you may even be able to stay on...


I FIRST bought some E-form... 2 damn bottles at that!!! didnt do a DAMN thing... nipples continued to itch, continued to get puffier and I swear it was even WORSE right after applying the stuff, dont go that route.

I ended up using 6-OXO instead and into my PCT, this did NOTHING to reverse what was already there, but it didnt get worse once the SD was stopped..... until I stopped after the second bottle of 6-OXO THEN there was a HUGE rebound, that shiii rebounds like a MOTHER F'ER!!!! I was without ANYTHING for like 2 weeks and it was flaming up like mad and starting to get PAINFUL.... so this is what I did.

I ordered Rebound XT (ATD) and Nolva (tamoxifen citrate) and ran those standalone for 4 weeks both at max dose (75/40 respectively) then STOPPED. IT WAS GONE! no rebound, no flare ups after the fact NOTHING, in fact I was able to a month later start Pheraplex and bridged Prostanozol over to Superdrol AGAIN this time taking 75mg of ATD alongside it each night and had ZERO flare up and ran a test booster and nolva for that PCT without any problems.

I didnt get any other problems for almost a year when I was doing nothing but eating alot of fatty foods and smoking a **** load of weed and that made the lumps get real bad.... then about 6 months after that I ended up takin Epistane in the log below.


SOOOO moral of the story.

  • Go to NP NOW and buy the ATD caps they got and start taking it at 75-100mg nightly(or 50 am and 50 pm).
  • Start nolva at 40mg TONIGHT
  • up your p-5-p dose.
  • If you have 1-Carboxy TAKE IT TONIGHT

and if you are in the market pick up some Caber ASAP for JIC protocol that you will start in a week if this doesnt help. THEN and only then would I abort your cycle (if this doesnt go down within a week of ATD and Nolva dosing).
 
TimberLakers said:
I'm not even sure how that would work given that I'm off a compound for almost 48 hours.

Epi is an AI though... :twisted:
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DUDE have you read my log below??? think you should click it.... its a link to the summation post for lazy bastardos like you that just want to see the results... what it did for my Gyno WHILE blowin me up is nothing short of amazing... if your intent on jumpin ship on the SD then by all means pick up the Epi when you get there.... nothin says you cant take a mini PCT and then resume a cycle... IN FACT guys used to run 2 on 2 off 2 on when SD first came out.
 
GMG760 said:
Not to worry... I have most of a bottle of Epi that I am gonna cram down Timber's throat once he gets here... no more gyno issues with that one!!!*

*Disclaimer: Do not cram bottles of Epistane down ones throat, doing so may cause choking....
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There are still plenty of guys who have gotten gyno from Epi, fyi
 
I also personally dont agree with the Pulse strategy unless you basically run your PCT while your pulsing too... then I wonder whats the point unless your just looking to run long term or really want to avoid shutdown for some other reasons.

I think that a pulse run inadequately also leads to gyno.
 
**** TL, sorry to hear about this! yeah, there's not much use in pushing the envelope at this point.

...although, I bet you'd look pretty hot with a set of tits!
 
when do you come into town?
 
I don't want anyone jumpin off thinking I have a huge chest... :lol:

It was a little bit of sensitivity, and what felt like a small bump under one nipple... Aesthetically my chest looks fine, it looks just like it did when I started, I'm really just erring on the side of caution here.

I'm perfectly OK with stopping the cycle, I'm not even considering another PH until this is completely healed, and to be honest - I caught it within an hour of it being sensitive - so this Nolva and AI starting NEXT friday should do the trick.
 
poopypants said:
I also personally dont agree with the Pulse strategy unless you basically run your PCT while your pulsing too... then I wonder whats the point unless your just looking to run long term or really want to avoid shutdown for some other reasons.

I think that a pulse run inadequately also leads to gyno.
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hey buddy, Epi gave me ****in nasty gyno. Had me walkin around squeezing my nips shooting fluid outta em :jaw:
 
When estrogen is high, progesterone is low and vice versa. So either can give you gyno. Looks to me like people here are trying to treat progestin related gyno with estrogen blockers which in theory would only make their gyno worse. Accordingly progestin related gyno is the hardest to treat
 
citystreets said:
hey buddy, Epi gave me ****in nasty gyno. Had me walkin around squeezing my nips shooting fluid outta em :jaw:
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Epistane. by IBE. Nothin else? didnt take anything prior?

I have had gyno and NEVER had fluid come out. That takes prolactin and ALOT of it. Epistane cannot increase prolactin. DAMN man even WOMEN have taken Epi and didnt start lactating.

It was NOT the Epi that did this. Again what else were you taking and was it IBE's Epistane or a knock off clone that could be contaminated or altogether wrong?
 
poopypants said:
Epistane. by IBE. Nothin else? didnt take anything prior?

I have had gyno and NEVER had fluid come out. That takes prolactin and ALOT of it. Epistane cannot increase prolactin. DAMN man even WOMEN have taken Epi and didnt start lactating.

It was NOT the Epi that did this. Again what else were you taking and was it IBE's Epistane or a knock off clone that could be contaminated or altogether wrong?
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I started leaking when I was on Epi. It was the only thing I was on, too.
 
well thats just odd guys...

Maybe you have naturally high prolactin levels and the drop in estrogen from Epistane is causing the balance to be too much in favor of prolactin and thus your body senses more prolactin then estrogen and the need to start lactation production....

thats the ONLY thing it could be. Epistanes MOA is purely anti Estrogenic and pro Androgenic not progesterone or prolactin related whatsoever. You ever had your blood drawn to confirm what your values were while this happened?
 
my gyno was obviously estrogen related (had quarter sized lumps, check first page of log for pics, but NEVER lactated) and thus epistane did a fantastic job lowering that and in turn my gyno....
 
poopypants said:
well thats just odd guys...

Maybe you have naturally high prolactin levels and the drop in estrogen from Epistane is causing the balance to be too much in favor of prolactin and thus your body senses more prolactin then estrogen and the need to start lactation production....

thats the ONLY thing it could be. Epistanes MOA is purely anti Estrogenic and pro Androgenic not progesterone or prolactin related whatsoever. You ever had your blood drawn to confirm what your values were while this happened?
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I've never had blood drawn outside of regular checkups and I'd never been told that I had a problem. My nipples became noticeably larger and puffier from epi, with the leakage. I didn't bother me a whole lot, but it was annoying. I'm on designer tren right now. I leaked for 1 day and then it stopped; nipples have also remained the same size, if not become smaller.
 
ya dude sounds like your a bit prone to that then... I too have run trn and never had any type of flare up whatsoever. (did once with ATD and once without)

Also ran the 19-nor compounds and had no problems.

The ones that bugged me have been Superdrol and Propadrol. Everything else, Dbol and Anadrol included, have been fine..... but I ran Dbol with Epi.

phera plex causes lots of guys problems and it didnt me either time I ran it.....

what else....
 
sorry to hear things didnt work out Timber! IBE's epi was a lot of fun! I gained nicely and cut fat at the same time! Good luck with your next stack bud!
 
poopypants said:
my gyno was obviously estrogen related (had quarter sized lumps, check first page of log for pics, but NEVER lactated) and thus epistane did a fantastic job lowering that and in turn my gyno....
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great results from that cycle...It's got me tempted to do another epi run!
 
it was ran alone at 10/20/40/40 nolva pct at 40/20/20/20
I gained 10lbs while on and lost all my gains in pct, wrecked my hair line and walked away able to breast feed half of africa.

I took caber and letro immediatly after and got it under crontrol, blood tet showed everything was okay. My theory is estrogen was lowered too much, progesterone rose in return and that led to prolactin problems. Id like to run Mdrol in the future but you can imagine how i feel about that after what Epi left me with
 
Thanks Kern.

No worries guys. Just blew out one of the best chest workouts of my life. I do appreciate the concern, and all the help you have lent over the past day.

I'm fine. The pain is subsiding quickly - the bump is super small - and I'm running Nolva and NovedexXT tonight plus DTHC...

RPM will be joining me to Cali.
 
niiiiice ;)

so you already made the trip to VS???


Ya I seriously suggest at least a low dose (25-50mg) of ATD with superdrol.... I handt seen too many reports of guys getting problems recently with Mdrol(admittedly havnt followed any threads recently though) so it didnt strike me to but I used to suggest this all the time right after I did it... in fact did it in my own M-TRN run the first time too just to make sure that wouldnt give me any problems.

Never seen it negatively affect my libido (in fact the opposite) as some claim and the gains are always just as good too!


I would say its a good cheap insurance policy there Kern.
 
Hey Timber how you running your nolva and novedex xt? Im running them for my PCT for a phera/mdrol bridge like this: nolva 20/20/20/20 and novedex XT 3 caps EOD in the begining, and the last 3 days or so of PCT(nolva and novedex XT at the same time) 3 caps 2 caps 1 cap. Does that sound alright? I notice you have another natty test booster in their as well, is that necessary?
 
LAX eh??? only bout 45 min away... I should stop by and sabotage your leaving the airport by throwing a turban at Tlake and yellin "hes got some razors and anthrax in that turban!!!! I swear its not dandruff!!!" then run like hell.
 
GMG760 said:
Not to worry... I have most of a bottle of Epi that I am gonna cram down Timber's throat once he gets here... no more gyno issues with that one!!!*

*Disclaimer: Do not cram bottles of Epistane down ones throat, doing so may cause choking....
Click to expand...
Hey! That's a great idea G-Money. I was just telling Timber in a PM to not give up on all compounds. Some just have worse sides and interactions with certain individuals. I don't even blame the compounds. It's usually just the individuals' unique body chemistry that seems to be at blame. M-Drol (nor any super clones) have bothered me at all. I love 'em! But it doesn't treat everyone else as nicely. I'm very confident that Epi would treat Timber right. I even suggested Epi to him in that PM I sent him. Good call G-Money. Now force-feed him dat shit!! :rofl:
 
poopypants said:
niiiiice ;)

so you already made the trip to VS???


Ya I seriously suggest at least a low dose (25-50mg) of ATD with superdrol.... I handt seen too many reports of guys getting problems recently with Mdrol(admittedly havnt followed any threads recently though) so it didnt strike me to but I used to suggest this all the time right after I did it... in fact did it in my own M-TRN run the first time too just to make sure that wouldnt give me any problems.

Never seen it negatively affect my libido (in fact the opposite) as some claim and the gains are always just as good too!


I would say its a good cheap insurance policy there Kern.
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Poooooops, wouldnt a good protocol be to run some Ralox with Superdrol then Torem for PCT? I would think that you would have everything on lockdown again. You should be able to tear it up with this protocol. TG, I threw your name in the I-Force thread to be a tester for Dymathizine, I think you would be an EXCELLENT tester for this and would provide great feedback and comparisons to other compounds.
 
mrchristian said:
Poooooops, wouldnt a good protocol be to run some Ralox with Superdrol then Torem for PCT? I would think that you would have everything on lockdown again. You should be able to tear it up with this protocol. TG, I threw your name in the I-Force thread to be a tester for Dymathizine, I think you would be an EXCELLENT tester for this and would provide great feedback and comparisons to other compounds.
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im sure it may... but I wouldnt want to drop est TOO low either, ralox will block the est right at the receptor not lower the actual count of est, and in turn the body may try to up est production by increasing aromatase which will use up a lot of any remaining test you have and make shutdown occur faster, JMO.

With ATD it stops the aromatase right off the bat from even making est, by doing so at a LOW dose though you wont stop ALL the aromatase and will allow the remainder to create a lil bit of est for health and gains purposes that can still attach to the non SERM blocked estrogen receptors. This is why typically for protection an AI is used on cycle and a SERM is only introduced if sides like timbers begin to present themselves so that way the cycle can continue, albeit at a less effective level.
 
poopypants said:
im sure it may... but I wouldnt want to drop est TOO low either, ralox will block the est right at the receptor not lower the actual count of est, and in turn the body may try to up est production by increasing aromatase which will use up a lot of any remaining test you have and make shutdown occur faster, JMO.

With ATD it stops the aromatase right off the bat from even making est, by doing so at a LOW dose though you wont stop ALL the aromatase and will allow the remainder to create a lil bit of est for health and gains purposes that can still attach to the non SERM blocked estrogen receptors. This is why typically for protection an AI is used on cycle and a SERM is only introduced if sides like timbers begin to present themselves so that way the cycle can continue, albeit at a less effective level.
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idk man, i think the ai will hinder recovery more than a SERM. Is that what you are saying that an AI like ATD will help recovery better than a SERM? A SERM will allow the estro to come back to a normal level which in turn takes test to normal levels, but the estro is blocked at the problem site. Now with an AI you inhibit circulating estrogen, estrogen that is needed for recovery, and you still allow some to go to problem estro receptors. You can argue the case of more aromatase with SERM leading to harder recovery.....i think thats what you mean...? In that case im not sure what is the right..:think:
 
mrchristian said:
TG, I threw your name in the I-Force thread to be a tester for Dymathizine, I think you would be an EXCELLENT tester for this and would provide great feedback and comparisons to other compounds.
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Thanks bro. I appreciate that. I would be honored to test drive that one. :thumbsup:
 
pistonpump said:
idk man, i think the ai will hinder recovery more than a SERM. Is that what you are saying that an AI like ATD will help recovery better than a SERM? A SERM will allow the estro to come back to a normal level which in turn takes test to normal levels, but the estro is blocked at the problem site. Now with an AI you inhibit circulating estrogen, estrogen that is needed for recovery, and you still allow some to go to problem estro receptors. You can argue the case of more aromatase with SERM leading to harder recovery.....i think thats what you mean...? In that case im not sure what is the right..:think:
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hmmm??? no Im talking about AI use on CYCLE as a prohibitive measure not as a reversal of already existing problems or in PCT. I def think a SERM is going to be what you need to STOP or REVERSE problems once they arrive or to stop any est interaction at all during PCT stimulating test production at a higher degree.

On cycle though SOME est interaction is desired, for the same reason we discussed above where these gentlemen got prolactin gyno from Epi cause it lowered there est to prolactin levels too much (one reason why I am was running DHEA and now 1-T, that has DHEA, with my Epi) as well as the additional reasons est is desired; libido support, maximal muscle growth, general health and immune support.

This is where the AI is superior cause it can lower EXCESS est, which can cause problems like on SD or aromatizable cycles, but will still allow SOME to exist and interact with receptors and exert its beneficial effects.... this is wholly dose dependent though, a low dose and/or EOD dose is preferred otherwise you can still shoot est down to non existent levels.

Again I agree that once problems arise that the SERM is the route to go or in PCT for general recovery and test production stimulation a SERM is far superior.

My response wasnt in regards to Timbers situation but to MrChristians question regarding using Ralox on cycle instead of an AI like ATD.

Hopefully that makes more sense.
 
schwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeetttt.

I love me some left over turkey, mmm boyee.

welp you should still see some fun stuff happen on that little NHA stack of yours there. Hows it been for you so far?
 
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