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thoughts on paleo?

bossman523

Banned
i have been eating mostly paleo. i try to eat more carbs on training days, however. lots of sweet potatoes and oatmeal or 5 grain hot cereal. i also eat a lot of fruit in the morning and afternoon. typically, a banana before and after working out, along with whatever other fruit i have in the house at the time. recently i have cheated a few times by eating builder's bars, and yesterday i drank a lowfat milk chug. but i have been pretty consistent in my paleo diet over the past few months, except for the occasional oatmeal/quinoa/5 grain. while paleo has definitely helped me shed fat, i wouldn't want to do it year-round because i think you need more carbs for consistent muscle growth.


what do you think, friends?
 
Steak is cow muscle and it is ~1/6 protein, ~1/6 fat and ~2/3s water. That will vary a bit depending on which cut you buy, but there's no carbs.

There's also plenty of evidence that a diet deficient in animal products stunts both physical and mental growth significantly. Even in America studies done on IQ show that people who avoid animal products have lower IQs. Vegetarians do about the same as meat eaters because they still eat milk and eggs, and many of them fish, but vegans who avoid all animal products consistently come in about 10% lower than the average.

Studies like this also show that carbs to not promote promote synthesis when sufficient protein is eaten.
ajpendo.physiology.org/content/293/3/E833.abstract

In short, carbs are an energy source, like creatine, so eating some carbs is good, but they aren't involved in the muscle building process. 50g is enough for most people, maybe 100g if you're an extremely active person who doesn't have a desk job. Eating an excessive amount of carbs will just bloat you up, mostly your gut.
 
I don't understand what is being asked in this thread? My thoughts on paleo is this, I like the idea of whole foods but I don't like the idea of no grains. Sounds like your not eating meat though and that is different from paleo.
 
bossman523 said:
oh, i eat a ton of meat, but limited grains.
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Why not just follow a modified version of paleo if you want to eat grains? Plenty of people follow a modified paleo diet that includes quinoa, brown rice, oatmeal, etc... Personally I think it is a good diet but I like my bread and cookies to much to try it lol
 
bossman523 said:
i have been eating mostly paleo. i try to eat more carbs on training days, however. lots of sweet potatoes and oatmeal or 5 grain hot cereal. i also eat a lot of fruit in the morning and afternoon. typically, a banana before and after working out, along with whatever other fruit i have in the house at the time. recently i have cheated a few times by eating builder's bars, and yesterday i drank a lowfat milk chug. but i have been pretty consistent in my paleo diet over the past few months, except for the occasional oatmeal/quinoa/5 grain. while paleo has definitely helped me shed fat, i wouldn't want to do it year-round because i think you need more carbs for consistent muscle growth.

what do you think, friends?
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I've been on paleo past 9 months and seen great results. As long as your fat intake is adequate you will keep seeing gains. I say stick with it
 
cool, thank you. i'll stick with it at least thru the summer. then plan on bulking in the fall, so will have to re-assess at that point how i want to go about it.
 
bossman523 said:
cool, thank you. i'll stick with it at least thru the summer. then plan on bulking in the fall, so will have to re-assess at that point how i want to go about it.
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Bulking on paleo is the best IMO, it's easy just eat hella almond butter lol. I went up to 206lbs on my paleo bulk
 
I eat a lot of carbs while still following Paleo. I'm not "strict" Paleo, so I eat stuff like white rice/potatoes, quinoa, lentils, and gluten free oats. I do not eat bread, pasta, or anything else with gluten in it. Fruits/sweet potatoes are also a part of my diet. I view Paleo as more of a template for what I should eat and what I should avoid (ie avoiding highly-processed foods and consuming whole, natural foods). If you look at my macros, though, I'm still eating more like I was when I was competing in figure - high protein, high/moderate carb, moderate/low fat. It's just what I prefer and what has given me the best results.
 
Perfect health diet is far more accomodating than strict Paleo, not to mention that strict Paleo, despite what most books say, are not followed today. Considering grains WERE cultivated in paleolithic eras (something they claim was not) however they were far less modified than the grains of today. Also consider that true Paleolithic era humans would have consumed the entire beast and not just the breast or rump steak but rather the liver, kidneys etc. and things like insects would have been consumed. Some Paleo diets do advocate for consumption of bone marrow and organs, but in most cases, people tend to avoid these recommendations.

In short, the Paleo diets we consume today are not replicas of what was actually consumed and shouldn't really be marketed as such; but rather they should focus on key components such as avoiding processed foods etc and going back to the basics.

But Paleo dieting is awesome.
 
Epolis13 said:
I eat a lot of carbs while still following Paleo. I'm not "strict" Paleo, so I eat stuff like white rice/potatoes, quinoa, lentils, and gluten free oats. I do not eat bread, pasta, or anything else with gluten in it. Fruits/sweet potatoes are also a part of my diet. I view Paleo as more of a template for what I should eat and what I should avoid (ie avoiding highly-processed foods and consuming whole, natural foods). If you look at my macros, though, I'm still eating more like I was when I was competing in figure - high protein, high/moderate carb, moderate/low fat. It's just what I prefer and what has given me the best results.
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I do the same thing and I feel much better as well.
 
Jiigzz said:
In short, the Paleo diets we consume today are not replicas of what was actually consumed and shouldn't really be marketed as such; but rather they should focus on key components such as avoiding processed foods etc and going back to the basics.
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This is so perfectly said.
 
Jiigzz said:
true Paleolithic era humans would have consumed the entire beast and not just the breast or rump steak but rather the liver, kidneys etc. and things like insects would have been consumed. Some Paleo diets do advocate for consumption of bone marrow and organs,
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Organs are where the nutrients are at!
 
Epolis13 said:
I eat a lot of carbs while still following Paleo. I'm not "strict" Paleo, so I eat stuff like white rice/potatoes, quinoa, lentils, and gluten free oats. I do not eat bread, pasta, or anything else with gluten in it. Fruits/sweet potatoes are also a part of my diet. I view Paleo as more of a template for what I should eat and what I should avoid (ie avoiding highly-processed foods and consuming whole, natural foods). If you look at my macros, though, I'm still eating more like I was when I was competing in figure - high protein, high/moderate carb, moderate/low fat. It's just what I prefer and what has given me the best results.
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Sums it up really.
 
I think what we should be asking ourselves is "is this beneficial to me or not?" and "will this have a negative impact on my health or goals?". As people who are looking for either results, good health or both I think it's wiser to assess if something is of use and whether it has a negative or positive impact short term and long term, and ultimately whether it is worth the risk if it does have a negative impact in order to accomplish a goal. We are, after all just a big sack of chemicals and strictly viewing diet from an anthropological or ancestral standpoint is moot, unless it is specifically drawing on biological evolutionary evidence that posits it is better we eat certain foods because we have superior adaption to those foods, and thus increase our overall performance as a species.

I'm paleoesque but follow a more scientific/logic standpoint rather than being specifically 'religious' about my food choices. I think one of the best ways to find the right lifestyle is by food elimination, as each individual is just that; an individual. I do think some hard and fast rules are pretty obvious, and I think a good case that grains, especially wheat nowadays is just straight up **** for you. There is enough correlation to autoimmune diseases and a plethora of ailments that indicate it is a probable cause for these issues; whether you can let go of your hankering for wheat based **** is a different story. The thing is, wheat is not necessary for maximum performance or survival and seems to be a source of health problems for a vast majority of people, so it is not necessary in any way.

As to carbohydrate ingestion for athletic performance, it is absolutely fine to consume only fats and proteins to perform. Gluconeogenesis still occurs regardless of carbohydrates and building muscle is still viable. The swelling in the muscle cell from carbohydrates comes from the replenishment of glycogen stores and not muscular growth, but it is a good psychological ploy. Play around and see what works for you best, but ultimately it can be done with or without carbohydrates, you just need to be keto-adapted and stay there if you want it to work efficiently. Again, I think this is just a learned behaviour "You need carbs to get jacked bro". It's either, or, I think. Try and be critical at all times, especially when it comes to nutrition.

My two cents.

Good luck with your future endeavors.
 
Just to add to the conv, being a fat burner is much more beneficial from many standpoints than being sugar burner.
Ex. some years ago I was basically a sugar burner and if someone told me I would eat just fat and protein in the future I would say they are crazy. Today, I primarely burn fat for energy and eat some carbs to add to my diet but what's important is I can go keto in no time if I so choose to only eat fat and protein. My body is that conditioned. I feel 100% better eating a few natural carbs and mostly fat and protein. Most importantly, my body fat dropped into single digits and my overall health has improved greatly. So, paleo at least is a good start to drop processed foods and eat more natural. After a while on this diet everyone can make diet adjustments to suit their needs.
 
vassille said:
Just to add to the conv, being a fat burner is much more beneficial from many standpoints than being sugar burner.
Ex. some years ago I was basically a sugar burner and if someone told me I would eat just fat and protein in the future I would say they are crazy. Today, I primarely burn fat for energy and eat some carbs to add to my diet but what's important is I can go keto in no time if I so choose to only eat fat and protein. My body is that conditioned. I feel 100% better eating a few natural carbs and mostly fat and protein. Most importantly, my body fat dropped into single digits and my overall health has improved greatly. So, paleo at least is a good start to drop processed foods and eat more natural. After a while on this diet everyone can make diet adjustments to suit their needs.
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That was out perfectly. Agree 100%
 
Pypp said:
That was out perfectly. Agree 100%
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I can also attest to the fact that being a fat burner made me feel a ton better physically and mentally, although I do CKD on a 7 day a week stint. I enjoy the break mentally, not having to worry about carbohydrate intake for an evening; at other times I just stay keto.
 
Epolis13 said:
It's a good read, actually. I usually show the first few chapters to my vegetarian friends :)
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Ya I am liking it so far. Still have a bit to read. Just read a few pages here and there right now.
 
CopyCat said:
Primal Blue Print, Mark Simmon and his website Marks Daily Apple are great resources as well.
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Appreciate that. Basically like just getting the info portion from it. Got a diet I am doing now already. Kind of falls in line with Paleo.
 
CopyCat said:
Primal Blue Print, Mark Simmon and his website Marks Daily Apple are great resources as well.
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His approach is by far the best paleo variation ive seen
 
vassille said:
Just to add to the conv, being a fat burner is much more beneficial from many standpoints than being sugar burner.
Ex. some years ago I was basically a sugar burner and if someone told me I would eat just fat and protein in the future I would say they are crazy. Today, I primarely burn fat for energy and eat some carbs to add to my diet but what's important is I can go keto in no time if I so choose to only eat fat and protein. My body is that conditioned. I feel 100% better eating a few natural carbs and mostly fat and protein. Most importantly, my body fat dropped into single digits and my overall health has improved greatly. So, paleo at least is a good start to drop processed foods and eat more natural. After a while on this diet everyone can make diet adjustments to suit their needs.
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Interesting response, I'm a little like this too. Keto has been the best for me, or a very balanced diet with mostly veggies and protein with limited fruit and starches.

Finding what works best for your body is key. What works for one person may not for the next.
 
missesmonique said:
Interesting response, I'm a little like this too. Keto has been the best for me, or a very balanced diet with mostly veggies and protein with limited fruit and starches.

Finding what works best for your body is key. What works for one person may not for the next.
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I found through trial and error that I really didnt need that many carbs. What it's interesting is that fat and carbs are just energy that gets broken down 2 different ways. As you said, what works for one person may not work for another is true, based on how well ppl's digestive and energy production is adapted to work on either energy source or perhaps both equally. This could be an adaptive trait, maybe disease or just genetics.
Looking at native american indians they are terrible being sugar burners, as suppose to asian people who all eat rice all their life. I think there lays the secret is to find out what your body preffers in what quantities. Overall though, being a mainly fat burner is a much more beneficial trait even though carbs are ok in certain situations as an add on energy source if there is a large energy expandature.
 
Pandabear said:
I can also attest to the fact that being a fat burner made me feel a ton better physically and mentally, although I do CKD on a 7 day a week stint. I enjoy the break mentally, not having to worry about carbohydrate intake for an evening; at other times I just stay keto.
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I like how I feel too on low carb or no carb. Many ppl complain of low energy which is mostly because their body is not used to burn fat for energy or eat enough calories.
 
vassille said:
I like how I feel too on low carb or no carb. Many ppl complain of low energy which is mostly because their body is not used to burn fat for energy or eat enough calories.
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Ya my body seems to ache less. Joints were constantly hurting. Now I just carb up every 5-7 days.
 
Carbs are too involved in muscle-building processes. Its called insulin. And meat alone does not illicit a strong enough insulin response to shuttle proper amino acids and nutrients to muscle cells. Certain aminos can only be transported via insulin thus carbs are needed at every meal when bulking.
 
True. I'm goin thru the same thing by cutting back on my carbs as of now. Yet, I also train intensely when it comes to legs, so on those days I have agreed to carb up regardless since the extra glycogen is appreciated during training.
 
i kinda feel it's tough for me to grow on really low carb. i have been thus trying to eat more carbs, but still clean.
 
bossman523 said:
i kinda feel it's tough for me to grow on really low carb. i have been thus trying to eat more carbs, but still clean.
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It is tough for some of us like "ectomorphs". If I'm cutting carbs its because I'm cutting fat. That's the only reason I would do such a thing honestly. For bulking I like a high carb/high protein diet more than a high fat/high protein diet for a few reasons:

1) Reducing fats quickens the food breakdown in the stomach. Bad thing here is that it could lead to an insulin surge causing fat gain. The good part is that the food doesn't stay in your stomach very long and hunger sets in pretty soon afterwards. I have found that carbs/ high protein amounts with low fat is a good compromise. It doesn't cause a sugar rush/crash but it also doesn't fill you up too long either. Eating fibrous carbs at every meal also helps as well.

2) Good carbs have a lot of nutrients to offer. Generally speaking, fat only offers calories. I realize fats play roles other than just offering energy but in the realm of comparing fats to carbs, fats do not offer as much micro-nutritional benefits.

I've noticed that our western society really embraces low carb/no carb diets far more than they embrace a balanced approach. My speculation is that part of this is due to the number of overweight, obese and "endomorphic" people there are in our society. There is no doubt low carb diets cause fat loss but that doesn't necessarily equate to a "healthy" diet and certainly doesn't mean that its ideal for bodybuilders trying to pack on muscle mass.

The fact is, regardless of what you eat, you have to go workout and peform regular and challenging cardio to have any real results. I think people are taking extreme approaches to dieting because they are unwilling to take any approach to consistent dedication in the gym. Thus, we have ideas like, "let's try starving oursevles and eat no carbs for 6 months"...but obviously those diets are not sustainable or healthy. I think that is where Paleo probably came from. Someone tried to take a more modest & common sense approach to the "keto" diet by realizing that carbs can be allowed at certain times and for certain purposes. Interestingly, the OP is also saying the even Paleo isn't sustainable for him either.
 
Im doing what you can so call I paleo plan but with raw grass fed milk.I feel no better if not worse but figured out Im not eating enough.Only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why so many say this is a great plan did they know cavemen avg life span was 16yrs old??I use it as a guide and mainly swapped grains/starchs for fruits/veggies.

As everything in life over time we make things alot better for the most part with exception of processed foods.
I say eat clean,as much fresh foods as possiable and for non country folk organic.(I have fruit stands/markets,butcher shops,dairies)all are fresh free range ect..and most important cheaper then a store.

Remember were not chasing down that friggin deer to eat or killing it with our bare hands,so for all the die hard paleo people out there until you actually stalk/kill/skin your game build a fire without a lighter and not drink from a sink its not paleo.Just my 2 cents.
 
67nova said:
Im doing what you can so call I paleo plan but with raw grass fed milk.I feel no better if not worse but figured out Im not eating enough.Only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why so many say this is a great plan did they know cavemen avg life span was 16yrs old??I use it as a guide and mainly swapped grains/starchs for fruits/veggies.

As everything in life over time we make things alot better for the most part with exception of processed foods.
I say eat clean,as much fresh foods as possiable and for non country folk organic.(I have fruit stands/markets,butcher shops,dairies)all are fresh free range ect..and most important cheaper then a store.

Remember were not chasing down that friggin deer to eat or killing it with our bare hands,so for all the die hard paleo people out there until you actually stalk/kill/skin your game build a fire without a lighter and not drink from a sink its not paleo.Just my 2 cents.
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hahaha

By the way, fruits, while loaded with micro-nutrients, absolutely suck at having good nutrient partitioning unless you have been fasting or otherwise starving to death. Fructose tends to be stored as fatty acids, not as glycogen.
 
For the fruits I eat 1-2 serv(25g each)a day,half-1 pre morning workout and go with a baked sweet potatoe post(only time/starch I eat)and snack on some berries or a apple later in day.And anything if you eat to much of gets stored as fat(protein/fat/ect...)

My total fruit intake a week is not even 100g of cho so im really not worried about it being stored as fat,at 7% I could use some mybe?
All this would really be more worried about if I was a bodybuilder im just a country guy that's been into fitness for awhile and was the fat kid until 10yrs ago(250lbs)traded my alcohol/drug addiction for fitness.
 
67nova said:
For the fruits I eat 1-2 serv(25g each)a day,half-1 pre morning workout and go with a baked sweet potatoe post(only time/starch I eat)and snack on some berries or a apple later in day.And anything if you eat to much of gets stored as fat(protein/fat/ect...)

My total fruit intake a week is not even 100g of cho so im really not worried about it being stored as fat,at 7% I could use some mybe?
All this would really be more worried about if I was a bodybuilder im just a country guy that's been into fitness for awhile and was the fat kid until 10yrs ago(250lbs)traded my alcohol/drug addiction for fitness.
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Yeah I wasn't eluding to the fact that you'd get fat on it, but rather, that fruit doesn't replenish muscle glycogen very well...if at all. In the case of fructose, a majority portion gets stored as fat regardless the amount consumed. The other portion gets stored as liver glycogen. This is not because of the amount eaten but because of the molecular science regarding the fructose chain. 2 modest servings a day isn't gonna harm anything though, especially when talking about apples. Those are generally the safest option.
 
fueledpassion said:
Yeah I wasn't eluding to the fact that you'd get fat on it, but rather, that fruit doesn't replenish muscle glycogen very well...if at all. In the case of fructose, a majority portion gets stored as fat regardless the amount consumed. The other portion gets stored as liver glycogen. This is not because of the amount eaten but because of the molecular science regarding the fructose chain. 2 modest servings a day isn't gonna harm anything though, especially when talking about apples. Those are generally the safest option.
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Which is why I tend to stay away from fruit for the most part.
 
When I do eat fruit(mostly fresh berries and apples)I drink raw apple cider vinegar and with all the calcium I get don't think a lot is going to liver(calcium helps to direct to muscle)cider keeps blood sugar stable.
 
Find what works for you and stick with it!
 
fueledpassion said:
Yeah I wasn't eluding to the fact that you'd get fat on it, but rather, that fruit doesn't replenish muscle glycogen very well...if at all. In the case of fructose, a majority portion gets stored as fat regardless the amount consumed. The other portion gets stored as liver glycogen. This is not because of the amount eaten but because of the molecular science regarding the fructose chain. 2 modest servings a day isn't gonna harm anything though, especially when talking about apples. Those are generally the safest option.
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Is this as much of an issue if my only fruit intake is immediately post workout? Love my banana in my shake...
 
Driven2lift said:
Is this as much of an issue if my only fruit intake is immediately post workout? Love my banana in my shake...
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Real ripe bananas' ratio is more favorable(glucose vs fructose). One of the fruits I still eat.
 
Bad part about that for me is nothing works,i get no energy from anything I eat(clean or unclean)fruit,milk,nuts,coconut oil/meat nothing.
It seems like this beat body I got is saving every cal and shutting me down.Coffee doesn't even help and I don't drink a lot of it either.
 
It's all about training your body to burn the right fuel at the right time... Paleo, CKD, etc etc can help get you there, but there is no need to strictly adhere to them. Mike T. Nelson's Metabolic Flexibility is where it's at. I cut 2.5% bf and gained over 5 lbs of muscle in a month using one of the programs from Geoff Neupert's "More Kettlebell Muscle" (kb complexes, this particular program was 9 weeks) combined with stuff I learned from Mike T. Nelson ... Variability in diet was a big factor, for a month I ate 5-6 meals a day, next month only dinner (Warrior diet), this month is Leangains. Definitely didn't avoid junk food, definitely cut calories during the week(between 1200-3200 weekly deficit, RMR values determined by gas exchange test), cycled carbs(only had starches after my most intense training sessions), and actually reduced fat intake to under 80 grams 5-6 days a week. Eating "clean" all the time is overrated. Solid programming, keeping a food journal to keep you honest, and actively reducing emotional stress finally got me under 15% bf.. The only cardio I did was one or 2 Spin classes a week.FWIW, YMMV.... I have before and after pictures if anyone is interested. The only muscle building supplements I used were creatine, beta alanine, and milk protein concentrate. I also use GABA, melatonin, 5-HTP, powdered cal-mag, and sometimes ashwagandha to help improve quality of sleep.

"Paleo" is kinda silly, and not practical in the world we live in. Plus Big Macs are kinda really delicious. So are Frosted Mini Wheats and pancakes. In the end you have to figure out what works for you because nothing is one size fits all, just don't cave to fads...
 
67nova said:
Bad part about that for me is nothing works,i get no energy from anything I eat(clean or unclean)fruit,milk,nuts,coconut oil/meat nothing.
It seems like this beat body I got is saving every cal and shutting me down.Coffee doesn't even help and I don't drink a lot of it either.
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MCT oil. Grab a tablespoon or two of that with some BCAA's mixed with either maltodextrin or water and you'll get some energy (at least for a workout).
 
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