The perfect postworkout protein protocol

TheGame46 said:
Yes it very poorly absorbed and easily broken down.
Leucine is what i add to mine (bulk powder) b/c its so cheap
The esterfied aminos leu val glu will show a lot of promise when they are cheaper.
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Really?

Free and protein-bound glutamine have identical splanchnic extraction in healthy human volunteers.

Boza JJ, Dangin M, Moennoz D, Montigon F, Vuichoud J, Jarret A, Pouteau E, Gremaud G, Oguey-Araymon S, Courtois D, Woupeyi A, Finot PA, Ballevre O.

Nestle Research Center, Vers-Chez-Les-Blanc, 1000 Lausanne 26, Switzerland.

The objectives of the present study were to determine the splanchnic extraction of glutamine after ingestion of glutamine-rich protein ((15)N-labeled oat proteins) and to compare it with that of free glutamine and to determine de novo glutamine synthesis before and after glutamine consumption. Eight healthy adults were infused intravenously in the postabsorptive state with L-[1-(13)C]glutamine (3 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1)) and L-[1-(13)C]lysine (1.5 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1)) for 8 h. Four hours after the beginning of the infusion, subjects consumed (every 20 min) a liquid formula providing either 2.5 g of protein from (15)N-labeled oat proteins or a mixture of free amino acids that mimicked the oat-amino acid profile and contained L-[2,5-(15)N(2)]glutamine and L-[2-(15)N]lysine. Splanchnic extraction of glutamine reached 62.5 +/- 5.0% and 66.7 +/- 3.9% after administration of (15)N-labeled oat proteins and the mixture of free amino acids, respectively. Lysine splanchnic extraction was also not different (40.9 +/- 11.9% and 34.9 +/- 10.6% for (15)N-labeled oat proteins and free amino acids, respectively). The main conclusion of the present study is that glutamine is equally bioavailable when given enterally as a free amino acid and when protein bound. Therefore, and taking into consideration the drawbacks of free glutamine supplementation of ready-to-use formulas for enteral nutrition, protein sources naturally rich in this amino acid are the best option for providing stable glutamine.


:bb3:
 
I hadn't seen this before. But it still supports not paying for isolated glutamine unless esterfied. and that is not cost effective at this time IMO.
Bobo said:
Really?

Free and protein-bound glutamine have identical splanchnic extraction in healthy human volunteers.

Boza JJ, Dangin M, Moennoz D, Montigon F, Vuichoud J, Jarret A, Pouteau E, Gremaud G, Oguey-Araymon S, Courtois D, Woupeyi A, Finot PA, Ballevre O.

Nestle Research Center, Vers-Chez-Les-Blanc, 1000 Lausanne 26, Switzerland.

The objectives of the present study were to determine the splanchnic extraction of glutamine after ingestion of glutamine-rich protein ((15)N-labeled oat proteins) and to compare it with that of free glutamine and to determine de novo glutamine synthesis before and after glutamine consumption. Eight healthy adults were infused intravenously in the postabsorptive state with L-[1-(13)C]glutamine (3 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1)) and L-[1-(13)C]lysine (1.5 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1)) for 8 h. Four hours after the beginning of the infusion, subjects consumed (every 20 min) a liquid formula providing either 2.5 g of protein from (15)N-labeled oat proteins or a mixture of free amino acids that mimicked the oat-amino acid profile and contained L-[2,5-(15)N(2)]glutamine and L-[2-(15)N]lysine. Splanchnic extraction of glutamine reached 62.5 +/- 5.0% and 66.7 +/- 3.9% after administration of (15)N-labeled oat proteins and the mixture of free amino acids, respectively. Lysine splanchnic extraction was also not different (40.9 +/- 11.9% and 34.9 +/- 10.6% for (15)N-labeled oat proteins and free amino acids, respectively). The main conclusion of the present study is that glutamine is equally bioavailable when given enterally as a free amino acid and when protein bound. Therefore, and taking into consideration the drawbacks of free glutamine supplementation of ready-to-use formulas for enteral nutrition, protein sources naturally rich in this amino acid are the best option for providing stable glutamine.


:bb3:
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TheGame46 said:
I hadn't seen this before. But it still supports not paying for isolated glutamine unless esterfied. and that is not cost effective at this time IMO.
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Yeah, that was the point.
 
Bobo said:
I think glutamine is waste regardless...
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Hell NO!!! I use it as filler:}

I love this type of discussion more than Bobo. I only tolerate him because he is smarter than I am.

All kidding aside, these threads are hugely educational to your members!

Thank you!
 
USPLabs said:
Hell NO!!! I use it as filler:}

I love this type of discussion more than Bobo. I only tolerate him because he is smarter than I am.

All kidding aside, these threads are hugely educational to your members!

Thank you!
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Use the search function! You can find the same arguements from years ago! This **** is old news! :D

Lazy! ;)
 
Bobo said:
Use the search function! You can find the same arguements from years ago! This **** is old news! :D

Lazy! ;)
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Lazy ha wrong..I'm damn lazy!

For the new members, you just gained a larger entourage. These "GURUs" are so sensitive...

Yea, clowns have groupies.
 
I'm grumpy. Blame Ernesto.

:)
 
But seriously, I haven't seen Bobo post this much in a while. He definitely must be taking out his anger with Ernesto..
 
TheGame46 said:
For what you pay for BCAA you better off using a hydrolyzed whey or isolate, they usually have a decent BCAA content themselves. Like I said above leucine in bulk is cheap, it is the main amino involved in hypertrophy, there are 2 other significant ones as well isoleucine and valine.
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i prefer free form BCAA's/glutamine because from my understanding, they bypass digestion more easily so i would think some if not most will trigger an anabolic response and keep someone from a catabolic state while training. although i do agree with bobo's thought that a small amount of carbs with less aminos will yield the same results but cost really isnt an issue with me. i would be interested to know what type of carb source bobo uses himself during or after training but i understand if you do not wanna disclose this info.
 
Bobo said:
I havne't done it a while. THe last one was with Alan Aragon and now he's leaning towards my point of view (you know it Alan! ;)). Before then it was at Avant years ago. I just got tired of it :)
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haha... yeah, alan aragon is always debating with the scivation guys over at bb.com. good points have been brought up on both ends. we need a debate that includes bobo and alan vs. chuck, derek, and mark. i would love to see this!!!

1 more thing with the glutamine. since high protein diets result in metabolic acidosis which can impact cortisol levels in a bad way, wouldnt glutamine be beneficial in that it helps with the PH balance being that it is alkaline? do you think Magnesium Glycyl Glutamine has any merit or any other form of glutamine for that matter?
 
WannaBeHulk said:
haha... yeah, alan aragon is always debating with the scivation guys over at bb.com. good points have been brought up on both ends. we need a debate that includes bobo and alan vs. chuck, derek, and mark. i would love to see this!!!

1 more thing with the glutamine. since high protein diets result in metabolic acidosis which can impact cortisol levels in a bad way, wouldnt glutamine be beneficial in that it helps with the PH balance being that it is alkaline? do you think Magnesium Glycyl Glutamine has any merit or any other form of glutamine for that matter?
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I don't tihnk it would be that much of a debate. I pretty much agree with Alan in most of the threads.

I think a lot of "diets" work but I don't beleive all have valid explanations. In all the threads I've never once seen anyone mention the glycemic load or event take that into considerastion. Its like they are stuck in research from 5 years ago.

As for glutamine, who knows what ways they will try to make it more bioavailalbe. As a consumer you have to ask yourself if they should, rather than if they could.
 
Bobo said:
I'm grumpy. Blame Ernesto.

:)
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Don't blame Ernesto your the one who moved away for Philly and into the path of those monsters:D

As for this discussion I feel like I've read this before, lol To sum this up for all those lazy SOB's we have Pre workout nutrition is the key and glutamine is still worthless.
 
jminis said:
Don't blame Ernesto your the one who moved away for Philly and into the path of those monsters:D
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"Can't even get decent food - right after I got here, I ordered some spaghetti with marinara sauce, and I got egg noodles and ketchup. I'm an average nobody... get to live the rest of my life like a schnook. "

:D
 
Giantz11 said:
Bobo,

I'd just like to say, this argument brings a tear to my eye.

Great stuff, as usual.
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hahah..same here :D
 
Good read. How many and what type of carbs are we talking here? I try to eat about 70 minutes before a workout due to the fact that insulin and GH are inversly proportional. You sould get a large GH secretion within the first 10 minutes of a workout and I don't want insulin restricting that in any way.

I am kind of confused now. I usually take 20g of dextrose with 7g creatine directly post workout and then about 25 minutes later take 50g of whey, so according to the above could I just drink the whey along with the creatine since my body is "primed" for uptake and synthesis. Follow all this up with a meal with low GI carbs??
 
BOBO: Let me take a stab at this and see if I am thinking correctly GLUT4 is sort of like a bridge. It comes to the surface of the cell membrane when insulin is introduced and allows the travel or uptake of glycogen and or amino acis into the cell? I have also read that GLUT4 is present after working out. I am guessing due to the fact that glycogen needs to get out of the muscle for use as energy and GLUT4 provides that pathway. Since it is already at the surface of the cell membrane post workout there is no need to introduce a simple sugar to increase insulin to increase any uptake. Furthermore you can replenish glycogen later during meals with low GI and healthier carbs?? Is this the idea?
 
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