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The Official OL UK Ghar1ne Q&A

I just read Danes' and sanmarino's SARMs thread from start to finish and bounced over here, so I only read the last page (forgive me lol). Has anyone done labwork for GH or IGF1 on this forum (or any others) following MK677 in general, but specifically from GHAR1NE? Very interested.
 
I just read Danes' and sanmarino's SARMs thread from start to finish and bounced over here, so I only read the last page (forgive me lol). Has anyone done labwork for GH or IGF1 on this forum (or any others) following MK677 in general, but specifically from GHAR1NE? Very interested.

Trying to find that thread....who is it listed under using the Search feature, Danes or Sanmarino? Or you could link me : )

Thanks!
 
Thanks crew!

My brain is in a fog today....was searching under author name vs "SARMS." I better down some Focus XT or something over here haha.
 
Thanks crew!

My brain is in a fog today....was searching under author name vs "SARMS." I better down some Focus XT or something over here haha.

FXT has huperzine A...sooooo stack it with GHAR1NE??? ;) lol
 
I just read Danes' and sanmarino's SARMs thread from start to finish and bounced over here, so I only read the last page (forgive me lol). Has anyone done labwork for GH or IGF1 on this forum (or any others) following MK677 in general, but specifically from GHAR1NE? Very interested.

That is an excellent question, I've seen blood work here and that throughout the internet regarding MK677, but I can't say I've specifically seen if for Ghar1ne. I would love to though, that would be fantastic data to have available.
 
That is an excellent question, I've seen blood work here and that throughout the internet regarding MK677, but I can't say I've specifically seen if for Ghar1ne. I would love to though, that would be fantastic data to have available.

For sure. I was wanting to check it out just to see if it was available before making a purchase, because I am considering a lengthy run as it hasn't been fully diagnosed, but I've had quite a few tests that point to GHD (growth hormone deficiency) oddly enough for someone who is 6', 240 and pretty strong lol. But I have a small microadenoma/prolactinoma and that's been the cause of elevated prolactin, lowered thyroid hormone, etc. And growth hormone tests via blood for the most part are almost worthless, but the range is like .01-10 or so and I never hit above a .04 and also had a 24 hour urine collection that was lower, too. So this is intriguing to me as more of a way to normalize things and not look at supraphysiological levels and I'd consider 6 months to start and assess.
 
For sure. I was wanting to check it out just to see if it was available before making a purchase, because I am considering a lengthy run as it hasn't been fully diagnosed, but I've had quite a few tests that point to GHD (growth hormone deficiency) oddly enough for someone who is 6', 240 and pretty strong lol. But I have a small microadenoma/prolactinoma and that's been the cause of elevated prolactin, lowered thyroid hormone, etc. And growth hormone tests via blood for the most part are almost worthless, but the range is like .01-10 or so and I never hit above a .04 and also had a 24 hour urine collection that was lower, too. So this is intriguing to me as more of a way to normalize things and not look at supraphysiological levels and I'd consider 6 months to start and assess.

if you find any info on labtests please post. also keep us updated on your conditions
 
For sure. I was wanting to check it out just to see if it was available before making a purchase, because I am considering a lengthy run as it hasn't been fully diagnosed, but I've had quite a few tests that point to GHD (growth hormone deficiency) oddly enough for someone who is 6', 240 and pretty strong lol. But I have a small microadenoma/prolactinoma and that's been the cause of elevated prolactin, lowered thyroid hormone, etc. And growth hormone tests via blood for the most part are almost worthless, but the range is like .01-10 or so and I never hit above a .04 and also had a 24 hour urine collection that was lower, too. So this is intriguing to me as more of a way to normalize things and not look at supraphysiological levels and I'd consider 6 months to start and assess.

How long did you run MK-677 for previously? Sure Ive seen a log of yours at another forum...
 
How long did you run MK-677 for previously? Sure Ive seen a log of yours at another forum...

The only chance I had to run it previously was a month, IIRC. Definitely not long enough to do it justice.
 
For sure. I was wanting to check it out just to see if it was available before making a purchase, because I am considering a lengthy run as it hasn't been fully diagnosed, but I've had quite a few tests that point to GHD (growth hormone deficiency) oddly enough for someone who is 6', 240 and pretty strong lol. But I have a small microadenoma/prolactinoma and that's been the cause of elevated prolactin, lowered thyroid hormone, etc. And growth hormone tests via blood for the most part are almost worthless, but the range is like .01-10 or so and I never hit above a .04 and also had a 24 hour urine collection that was lower, too. So this is intriguing to me as more of a way to normalize things and not look at supraphysiological levels and I'd consider 6 months to start and assess.

I completely understanding wanting more data before investing in a lengthy run. Considering your interest in MK-677 for the purpose of normalizing your levels of growth hormone due to your suspicion that you are suffering from a growth hormone deficiency, it may hold promise for such an application.

-Oral administration of growth hormone (GH) releasing peptide-mimetic MK-677 stimulates the GH/insulin-like growth factor-I axis in selected GH-deficient adults. (PMID: 9329386)

-Effects of oral administration of ibutamoren mesylate, a nonpeptide growth hormone secretagogue, on the growth hormone-insulin-like growth factor I axis in growth hormone-deficient children. (PMID: 11452249)

So as we can see, studies show it has potential for those with growth hormone deficiency. It even has potential in those who are are healthy, without growth hormone deficiency:

-Effects of a 7-day treatment with a novel, orally active, growth hormone (GH) secretagogue, MK-677, on 24-hour GH profiles, insulin-like growth factor I, and adrenocortical function in normal young men. (PMID: 8768828)

-Effects of an oral ghrelin mimetic on body composition and clinical outcomes in healthy older adults: a randomized trial. (PMID: 18981485)

So MK-677 may very well be beneficial to both those are are growth hormone deficient and those without a deficiency. If I were in your shoes, would this data influence me to try it for such a purpose? I believe so, because to me, the data is very convincing. There are 100 PubMed entries on MK-677, and lots of data that would lead me to believe that it is a beneficial compound that many people could potentially use to help achieve various goals.
 
I just read Danes' and sanmarino's SARMs thread from start to finish and bounced over here, so I only read the last page (forgive me lol). Has anyone done labwork for GH or IGF1 on this forum (or any others) following MK677 in general, but specifically from GHAR1NE? Very interested.

I may be able to finagle my DR into testing for this. But I'm not starting ghar1ne til sometime in sept
 
I wouldn't use the two together, personally. If Citicoline is something that you feel you need to supplement, skip the addition of Huperzine A. The combination would not be good, you'd have far too much acetylcholine in the body. But citicoline does not elicit the intended effect that Huperzine A does, so know that it's not a replacement. To the best of my knowledge, Citicoline does not inhibit somatostatin, thus not providing the same effect we are looking for from Huperzine A. But again, I would not stack the two. If Citicoline is a staple for you, avoid Huperzine A. If you want to use Huperzine A, drop the Citicoline.

I can't say for sure, not knowing the dosage. The thing is, Huperzine A can have a cumulative effect over time, so it may not cause issues immediately but perhaps a few days down the road. I can't recommend you use both, as Huperzine A is not necessary for MK-677 to work, its simply additive.

Will the 400mg of phosphatidylserine in OL V1tality be too much. I can switch to that instead of Ergonine to avoid ODing on the choline
 
Will the 400mg of phosphatidylserine in OL V1tality be too much. I can switch to that instead of Ergonine to avoid ODing on the choline

No sir, the Phosphatidylserine in Olympus Labs V1tality would have no negative interaction that I am aware off, so if you are willing to switch, it would probably be a good idea. I'd hate to see you have negative side effects from too much choline simply trying to get some synergy with Huperzine A and Ghar1ne.
 
No sir, the Phosphatidylserine in Olympus Labs V1tality would have no negative interaction that I am aware off, so if you are willing to switch, it would probably be a good idea. I'd hate to see you have negative side effects from too much choline simply trying to get some synergy with Huperzine A and Ghar1ne.

Yeah I was mainly using Ergonine for the creatine and betaine but can switch to V1taliy for that.
 
UPDATE:

1) yesterday (Sat., August 15th) was day 25, day 19 @20mg.

2) first the good news: I've been using phosphatidic acid for quite some time now so I can clearly distinguish it's effects from the Gharine and Cardarine. The stack of the three has my muscles full, hard, pumped at ALL times--even when I haven't touched a weight. Which, by the way, is something I think may be underappreciated about Cardarine--it's insulin sensitizing effects.

3) fat loss continues very nicely; in fact, between the Gharine and Cardarine (and phosphatidic acid to a lesser degree) it has made loosing body fat so much more effective.

4) despite significant and visible fat loss, I've only dropped 1.6 scale pounds! So, either I'm holding significant water--which I DON'T believe to be the case, or I'm adding lean body mass as I drop fat--the freakin' holy grail !

This also reminds me, I forgot to mention that I've been using 6 grams/day taurine. Taurine has a powerful effect on regulating electrolyte levels (thus it's effect on preventing muscle cramps). So, I think it makes an excellent addition to the Gharine to help prevent excess water retention.

4) now the bad news: I think my experiment with huperzine is over. I had never used it before but was intrigued by its potential additive effects with Gharine. At first it did not interfere with my sleep, and, in fact, seemed to increase the effectiveness of the Gharine. However, at this point it has built up enough in my system that it now DOES interfere with the quality of my sleep and, paradoxically, seems to make the Gharine LESS effective--at least in the sense of producing a deep restorative sleep. This has been further confIrmed by my wife, who after just several days is now getting
disturbed sleep patterns and general agitation/anxiety.

So, it simply isn't worth the small additive effect. However, I can't find a definitive half-life for huperzine. I've seen anything from 4.75 Hrs., to 10 Hrs., to 12 Hrs., to 14Hrs., to claims of over 24 Hrs. I have, however, not ran across any actual pharmacokenetic studies showing a 24 Hrs. half-life--only claims. My point being, I have no Idea if taking huperzine in the morning will have any effect on acetylcholine levels in the evening. However, due to the way it has obviously built up in both me and my wife, it must have a long half life. So, maybe earlier studies were not sophisticated enough to determine its true half-life, or perhaps it has a variable half-life as many drugs do depending on genetic factors such as enzyme levels necessary for its metabolic elimination.

In any case, it's not worth trying to figure out. If 20 mg. doesn't produce a significant enough effect I'll simply up it to 30 mg., however right now I doubt this will be necessary. I've was getting excellent deep sleep from 20 mg. until the huperzine started to interfere.

In my mind the only real reason to start out at 10 mg. is to give your body time to adjust to the effects of increased GH. For me, that's a week or two. The vast majority of the studies used a 25 mg. dose, but studies also show the increase in GH does not plateau until 100 mg. in healthy young men!
This would be a cost prohibitive dose--not to mention the sides--but I think 20-30 mg. Will be the sweet spot for most. I may eventually go up to 40 mg. If I run it long term, we'll see.
 
UPDATE:

1) yesterday (Sat., August 15th) was day 25, day 19 @20mg.

2) first the good news: I've been using phosphatidic acid for quite some time now so I can clearly distinguish it's effects from the Gharine and Cardarine. The stack of the three has my muscles full, hard, pumped at ALL times--even when I haven't touched a weight. Which, by the way, is something I think may be underappreciated about Cardarine--it's insulin sensitizing effects.

3) fat loss continues very nicely; in fact, between the Gharine and Cardarine (and phosphatidic acid to a lesser degree) it has made loosing body fat so much more effective.

4) despite significant and visible fat loss, I've only dropped 1.6 scale pounds! So, either I'm holding significant water--which I DON'T believe to be the case, or I'm adding lean body mass as I drop fat--the freakin' holy grail !

This also reminds me, I forgot to mention that I've been using 6 grams/day taurine. Taurine has a powerful effect on regulating electrolyte levels (thus it's effect on preventing muscle cramps). So, I think it makes an excellent addition to the Gharine to help prevent excess water retention.

4) now the bad news: I think my experiment with huperzine is over. I had never used it before but was intrigued by its potential additive effects with Gharine. At first it did not interfere with my sleep, and, in fact, seemed to increase the effectiveness of the Gharine. However, at this point it has built up enough in my system that it now DOES interfere with the quality of my sleep and, paradoxically, seems to make the Gharine LESS effective--at least in the sense of producing a deep restorative sleep. This has been further confIrmed by my wife, who after just several days is now getting
disturbed sleep patterns and general agitation/anxiety.

So, it simply isn't worth the small additive effect. However, I can't find a definitive half-life for huperzine. I've seen anything from 4.75 Hrs., to 10 Hrs., to 12 Hrs., to 14Hrs., to claims of over 24 Hrs. I have, however, not ran across any actual pharmacokenetic studies showing a 24 Hrs. half-life--only claims. My point being, I have no Idea if taking huperzine in the morning will have any effect on acetylcholine levels in the evening. However, due to the way it has obviously built up in both me and my wife, it must have a long half life. So, maybe earlier studies were not sophisticated enough to determine its true half-life, or perhaps it has a variable half-life as many drugs do depending on genetic factors such as enzyme levels necessary for its metabolic elimination.

In any case, it's not worth trying to figure out. If 20 mg. doesn't produce a significant enough effect I'll simply up it to 30 mg., however right now I doubt this will be necessary. I've was getting excellent deep sleep from 20 mg. until the huperzine started to interfere.

In my mind the only real reason to start out at 10 mg. is to give your body time to adjust to the effects of increased GH. For me, that's a week or two. The vast majority of the studies used a 25 mg. dose, but studies also show the increase in GH does not plateau until 100 mg. in healthy young men!
This would be a cost prohibitive dose--not to mention the sides--but I think 20-30 mg. Will be the sweet spot for most. I may eventually go up to 40 mg. If I run it long term, we'll see.

Great feedback! Love the detail and loving the results you are getting thus far.

I like the combo of Ghar1ne with Carder1ne.

MK can decrease insulin sensitivity to an extent, whilst GW can increase it. So I think that makes for a great 1-2 combo while mediating the effects of each. Keep us up to date on how things are going. I know I'm following along for the ride.
 
Great feedback! Love the detail and loving the results you are getting thus far.

I like the combo of Ghar1ne with Carder1ne.

MK can decrease insulin sensitivity to an extent, whilst GW can increase it. So I think that makes for a great 1-2 combo while mediating the effects of each. Keep us up to date on how things are going. I know I'm following along for the ride.

The only studies I've seen show a positive correlation between IGF-1 levels and insulin sensitivity; so, I think the problem may stem from excessively high GH levels--something I think would only likely happen with exogenous GH administration.
 
I'm not familiar with the product you're referring to. If you mean the phosphatidic acid, it's Biotest's product. This, in my opinion, is one of the only legitimate phosphatidic acid supplements out on the market.

Yeah, was curious what your source of pa was.

There are a few mediator pa products out now, some quite a bit cheaper than the biotest one if youre interested.
 
I will pm you some details ok.

Can I bother you for that info as well bud?

Also, keep in mind Phosphatidyl Serene can be bought in bulk fairly cheap and works via the same MOA (though to a lesser extent).
 
I could tell an increase in the quality of my sleep last night after dropping the huperzine for just one night; not as deep as I got at first before the huperzine sides started kicking in, but much better. It should only take a few days to be back at baseline.
 
You guys are going to love PHOSPHAS1ZE :D

My ultimate natty anabolic stack will finally be complete:

The trifecta of gains...

Phosphas1ze + EP1C + DermaStr3ngth
 
Mk-677 is good stuff. But what about the bioavailability of gharine? Atleast with Rc's you have the option of utt absorbtion
 
MK-677 has good oral bioavailibilty. Here's an interesting read on MK-677:


IronMag Research™

MK-677 – ‘The Best Growth Hormone Secretagogue?’
adminJune 19, 2015 Blog
by Mike Arnold

As bodybuilders, we tend to take an interest in any drug which promises to move us one step closer to realizing our goals. Whether the claims are big or small, most new PED’s are welcomed into the fold with a certain degree of excitement and expectation, at which point they are used, analyzed, and ultimately judged as either worthwhile or worthless.

Over the last 50 years, we have seen no shortage of performance enhancers come our way. Some of these turned out to be duds and were quickly rejected, while others withstood the test of time and joined the classics as a permanent fixture within the PED landscape. But once every now and then something special comes along; something which causes people to re-think their approach to drug use and in the process, changes the way the game is played. Often, these drugs form the foundation, or core of our PED program, around which everything else is based.

The most glorified of these is growth hormone. Surrounded by a certain mystique, GH has often been credited with providing near magickal effects, with everyone from bodybuilders to life extensionists singing its praise. However, its high price tag and an unreliable blackmarket have established it as somewhat of a novelty drug, cementing its status as a PED reserved for the affluent and bodybuilding elite.

Although unaffordable to most, the majority of competitive bodybuilders view growth hormone as a necessary stepping stone in their evolutionary journey toward physical perfection. This has caused some to make unreasonable concessions, even to the point of financial irresponsibility. Others simply go without, hoping to one day make it a part of their program. Unfortunately, using just 6-7 IU per day will cost the average individual about $400 per month—enough to make a decent car payment.

We all know bodybuilding is a really cool sport, but it can also be damn expensive, with lots of people never coming anywhere close to achieving their full potential simply because they can’t afford to live the lifestyle necessary to make it happen. Food, gym membership fees, supplementation, contest expenses, and sometimes even things like physical therapy, chiropractic care, and deep tissue massage may be required in order for one to be their best…and this doesn’t even include drugs, which can be a massive expense all by itself!

While growth hormone releasing agents are not yet capable of replacing very large doses of exogenous GH, when using the right compounds at the right dosages, I have seen lab work from individuals whose IGF-1 levels (the most accurate method of determining GH levels within the body) reached the equivalent of at least an 8 IU daily dose of growth hormone. Furthermore, these results were achieved at a fraction of the cost of exogenous GH. Of all the various GH elevating drugs at our disposal, I find MK-677 to be the most fascinating. There are several things which set MK-677 apart from other GH releasers, but first, what exactly is MK-677?

Technically, MK-677 is not a GH peptide at all, but a selective androgen receptor modulator (S.A.R.M). Most people, when they think of S.A.R.M’s, tend to think of steroid-like drugs such as Ostarine or S4, but S.A.R.M’s aren’t limited to steroid mimetics alone. Rather, they can have a wide range of effects in the body, serving as fat burners (GW-501516), muscle builders (LGD-4033), and in the case of MK-677, GH elevating agents.

One of the most basic differences between GH peptides and MK-677 is its oral bioavailability. While most of those who use AAS and other bodybuilding drugs aren’t really bothered by needles, it’s always nice when a drug can be swallowed rather than pinned. It’s just easier and more convenient. Obviously, for the needle averse, this would be viewed as a significant benefit.
In addition, it only needs to be taken once per day, due to its long active-life within the body. Among the various GH peptides, only CJC-1295 DAC has the ability to be dosed this infrequently, while the majority must be used 3-5X per day in order to keep GH levels elevated for a decent period of time. Although short duration GH peptides can certainly be effective, even die-hard bodybuilders have to admit this gets to be a pain in the ass, especially when using compounds that need to be timed around meals (elevated blood glucose levels can impair the effectiveness of some GH peptides). With MK-677, a once per day oral dose delivers maximum effects, with additional doses providing no further benefit.

Another noteworthy benefit of MK-677 is that it doesn’t result in desensitization. Many GH peptides, if used chronically, will cause desensitization within a short period of time. To what degree will vary depending on the compound employed, but some of them, such as Hexarelin, begin to cause desensitization by the 2nd dose and within a couple weeks is only fractions only a fraction as potent as it was initially. MK-677 exhibits no such downside and in fact, research shows that it can actually become more effective with long-term use. One clinical study revealing an increase in IGF-1 levels of 60% at the 6 month point and 72.9% after 12 months of treatment. Another study peaked at an 89% increase.

As some of you might know, many GH peptides have been demonstrated to increase both cortisol and prolactin levels, neither of which is desirable. But in all fairness, these two hormones are often impacted to only a small degree, with only a couple GH peptides resulting in elevations outside the normal range. Although anywhere within normal is usually considered acceptable and unlikely to cause any issues, it would still be better if they did not increase them at all.

During the first week of treatment, MK-677 causes a slight elevation in both cortisol and prolactin (still within the normal range), but after one week of use, levels revert back to baseline. In terms of unwanted hormonal manipulation, this makes MK-677 a cleaner GH releasing agent than other GH peptides, Ipamorelin aside.

One of the most well known effects of several GH peptides is their ability to stimulate the appetite. As ghrelin mimetics, drugs like GHRP-2 and GHRP-6 can have a profound impact on hunger in most individuals. In this capacity MK-677 is no different. Similar to GHRP-2 and GHJRP-6, MK-677 provides a distinct increase in hunger shortly after administration. However, unlike the above mentioned compounds, this effect is much longer-lasting, sticking around for between 12-24 hours in most cases.

When discussing IGF-1 within the context of muscle growth, most tend to focus on the level of this hormone in the bloodstream, while paying little to no attention to those factors which influence the ability of IGF-1 to do its job. One of these is IGF-1 binding protein 3, or IGFBP-3, for short. While low dosages of MK-677 (5 mg/day) do not increase levels of this protein, normal dosages (25 mg/day and above) do. For many of you reading this, your initial reaction may be to think of this as a negative trait, due to misconceptions surrounding the role of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) in testosterone metabolism, but the truth is that elevations of IGFBP-3 (as well as SHBG, for that matter) are a good thing.

Let’s use testosterone as an example. Once testosterone has entered the bloodstream, it resides in one of two forms—in either a free or bound state. Free testosterone circulates as is, while bound testosterone is testosterone which has been bound to SHBG. For decades, most people thought, even the medical community, that free testosterone was all that mattered, as bound testosterone was believed to be unusable by the body; held hostage by SHBG. We now know we were wrong, as SHBG is not the enemy after all, but functions as transporter protein, helping to usher testosterone to the receptor site where it can then perform its actions.

In the same way, IGFBP-3 is the main carrier of IGF-1, but IGFBP-3 is more than just a transporter. It also helps prolong the life of IGF-1 in the body. In other words, the more IGFBP-3 present, the better. So, MK-677 not only increases growth hormone and IGF-1 levels, but also IGFBP-3, further potentiating the positive effects of IGF-1 on muscle growth.

Getting back to MK-677’s active life, let’s look at little closer at how this drug increases GH levels. Remaining active for roughly 24 hours, MK-677 works in a pulsatile fashion, causing about a dozen bursts of GH throughout the day. This keeps GH levels elevated for a substantially longer period of time compared to some of the most commonly used GH peptides, such as GHRP-2 or GHRP-6, which only maintain elevated GH levels for around 90 minutes. From a pharmacokinetic standpoint, in terms of duration of action, this makes MK-677 much more similar to exogenous growth hormone than most other GH peptides.

For those of you who have difficulty sleeping, or don’t feel as rested as you should when you wake up in the morning, MK-677 may be able to help. MK-677 has been shown to increase the amount of time spent in stage IV sleep by 50%, while also increasing REM sleep by 20%. In order to understand the significance of this, and its potential effects on recovery and growth, let me briefly walk you through the different stages of sleep.

There are 4 stages of sleep; stage I, II, III, and IV. Stages I is a preparation for the later stages of sleep, in which muscle activity is reduced and eye movement slows. Some people might describe this as the period inbetween wakefulness and sleep, in which the individual is not really coherent, but not yet fully sleep. The individual may be unconscious or may move in and out of consciousness during this stage.

In Stage II eye movement stops and brain waves slow, although an occasional burst of brain activity may occur. Stage III is characterized as by the onset of even slower brain waves called delta waves, which are interspersed with periods of faster brain wave activity. Stage IV is the deepest stage of sleep, in which delta waves are present almost continuously. The final stage of sleep is known as REM sleep. It is this stage in which we dream.

Stage IV, the stage of sleep which MK-677 increases, is when the body deals with the stresses from the previous day, repairing itself physically and recharging its batteries, so to speak. This is when we experience the majority of our recovery and growth and is therefore vitally important to bodybuilders. While REM sleep is less important for muscle growth, it is none the less an important component of the sleep process. Many scientists believe REM sleep plays an important role in cognitive functioning and our overall mental health and wellbeing. In addition to an increase in stage IV and REM sleep, MK-677 has also been shown to improve sleep quality by preventing deviations from the normal sleep cycle.

With so many benefits and its relative affordability, it is not hard to see why MK-677 has exploded in popularity over the last year. Like other GH releasing drugs, MK-677 can be stacked with GH peptides for an even greater effect, increasing levels of growth hormone and IGF-1 far beyond what can be achieved under normal circumstances. For those of you who want to experience the benefits of elevated GH levels, but don’t have the cash, or don’t want to take the risk with blackmarket GH, MK-677 is a viable, clinically proven alternative that is both easy and legal to use.
 
Have I told you how much I Iove OL?!

1) I had really bad acne on my back as a teen which never completely cleared up. I still have small blemishes and bumps, etc. on my back. Well, yesterday my wife told me how nice my back was looking, how smooth and clear my skin was.

2) the skin on my face is fuller, plumper and more "rubbery". My skin tone is smother and more youthful looking.

3) since dropping huperzine sleep is deep and restful, hands tingly. Despite the good intentions, I feel huperzine is a completely unnecessary and, in fact, counterproductive addition to the Gharine.
 
Have I told you how much I Iove OL?!

1) I had really bad acne on my back as a teen which never completely cleared up. I still have small blemishes and bumps, etc. on my back. Well, yesterday my wife told me how nice my back was looking, how smooth and clear my skin was.

2) the skin on my face is fuller, plumper and more "rubbery". My skin tone is smother and more youthful looking.

3) since dropping huperzine sleep is deep and restful, hands tingly. Despite the good intentions, I feel huperzine is a completely unnecessary and, in fact, counterproductive addition to the Gharine.

Glad you're having such a solid experience!

I'm hoping to do an extended run and I'm leaning more toward GHAR1NE as my MK-677 choice.
 
Glad you're having such a solid experience!

I'm hoping to do an extended run and I'm leaning more toward GHAR1NE as my MK-677 choice.

I think you'll be really happy with it! I, too, am planning on a long haul with the Gharine. Consistency in use and a long half-life are really important in getting the maximum benefit from a drug or supplement. The Gharine has been extensively tested for safety and efficacy, whereas I have to admit I'm feeling a little uncertain about the long term safety of GW, SR, Etc.
 
I'm riddled with it joint and muscle pain (hips and shoulders) and doctors don't really know why.. I'll let u know happens when i start/through out

A rheumatologist has ruled out various forms of arthritis but I have several markers indicating overwhelming muscle inflammation.. More tests needed. Barring any severe condition, I'm not going to take an RX and will still be using Ghar1ne soon. Classic markets of overtraining -- elevated CK and Aldolase levels in the blood. Taking a week off and getting more blood done
 
So are you guys taking this on an empty stomach at bedtime or with food? I always eat right before bed or I wake up in the middle of the night starving. Lol
 
So are you guys taking this on an empty stomach at bedtime or with food? I always eat right before bed or I wake up in the middle of the night starving. Lol

I understand exactly what you mean about eating before bed--I have a shake and a small amount of solid food, no carbs. So, I allow 5 hours between my last two meals. At 4 1/2 hours I take my Gharine, then 1/2 Hr. later I have my shake and mini meal. So, I take the Gharine on as empty of a stomach as possible. I make sure that I allow my blood sugar levels to fall, as the effectiveness of some GH stimulators are reduced by high blood sugar levels--I have no idea if this applies to Gharine, but why take the chance especially since it fits into my goals (fat loss).
 
I work 12 hour days during the week so I hit the gym, eat a big meal and go to sleep ha. When I start Ghar1ne in a month or two I will be testing the full stomach case...
 
I work 12 hour days during the week so I hit the gym, eat a big meal and go to sleep ha. When I start Ghar1ne in a month or two I will be testing the full stomach case...

I'd be Interested to know how it works for you. Also, you could take the Gharine post training, wait 1/2 Hr., eat, then go to bed.
 
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